Great… So glad this is in our rear view mirror
- Thread starter Coug95man2
- Start date
Yeah, probably but I didn't go out searching for this. I follow WSU on my twitter. They had this up. This article came out today….
It was interesting of note number 2 was
Not at all. That is what happens when you recruit 27 kids off three ten win seasons and 14 never step on the field, and three remain to their redshirt senior class. And when you recruit 21 player a year removed from those three win seasons and 10 never see the field, and six are available in 2008 and 2009, and you head into the Apple Cup with 13 scholie defensive players, that is what happens.
Um. Yea. Am I missing something? Computer says it's the 16th. Article says was published the 16th. WSU twitter linked it this morning… Now I'm self conscious… what'd I do… ?
Give it a rest. Nobody believes your bs. Or your Wulff excuses. Who are you trying to convince? You won't convince anybody. We've made these lists every year they've come out since Wulff was here.
He's a historical national failure. Not just our own failure, but a national failure.
There was an article a few months ago that Tron linked that also had these two teams in the worst teams of all time. I do not remember what year, but one of those teams were also ranked as the worst of all time.
We're probably always going to be on those lists now. The Paul Wulff gift that will always keep on giving.
Things I have learned on WW. Erickson and was lucky that he followed Walden. Doba was a horrible coach. Leach has been a disappointment. Walden and Price were good coaches. Wulff was misunderstood and just had bad timing following Doba.
Really, recruiting 27 players and 3 are on the 08 squad doesn't make sense to you? 21 and 10 never see the field and 6 are on the 08/09 squad? Really. I get the list. Please tell me why this is any different than 2011 not having any DB's that made it 2014? I am really curious. On ONE side of your mouth you point to 3-9 as a reflection of recruiting and the holes in a class, and on the other you poo poo 3 recruits from a class of 27 that made it to Paul Wulff's first season. All recruited off 3 ten win seasons.
So 2009 and 2008 belong to Wulff because he coached a team without a QB, Dt's, and injured lineman, but 2012 and 2014 belong to Wulff because of lack of DB depth? But 2013 was all Leach and what he did with division 2 talent.
Your contradiction is noted. I don't need to "sell anyone anything". I just won't buy your inconsistent BS.
Wouldn't these numbers look almost the same for the Wulff-Leach transition? Why is your defense so ardent and one-sided?
The only thing poo poo that is consistent is Paul Wulff having 50% of his tenure listed on independent websites as "The worst of all time".
I got a chuckle out of that article. Funny that they found "popcorn guy" to go along with our #1 ranking.
I got a chuckle out of that article. Funny that they found "popcorn guy" to go along with our #1 ranking.
Not the lesson I learned. I learned Erickson was handed some really great talent. As a coach who actually coached for Erickson said he was born under a lucky star, meaning that the programs he took over were getting mature and he would be the finish carpenter. Erickson was a better game day coach than he was a recruiter. Walden, he was a better recruiter than game day coach. And what makes Walden a great coach is what he meant to the program. Anytime a team hasn't been to a bowl game in 50 years, I take notice. Anytime you put Millard, Williams, Howard in the NFL at a position we were normally weak at, I take notice. He transitioned us from being a stepping stone to someone who didn't get voted out of the Pac 10, and he brought home games back to Pullman. I take notice in 1981 when he is playing for the Rose Bowl. I take notice when he beats a very good Husky Program 3-4 years, and it should have been 4-4, and when Don James and Terry Donahue say WSU by seasons end was the best team in the conference, I take note.
So he was perfect for WSU. Not the most cerebral coach, and where he differs from Erickson. But he was a good enough coach on the field, a very good recruiter, and was probably the most important person in a very crucial time in our modern day history.
Leach is a disappointment? Nope. I will say 2014 rocked my absolute conviction he would get this turned around. If he loses in 2016 that would surprise me, it would in the end disappoint me. But there are two years before that happens.
Doba was a great DC, marginal head coach, and he and his staff were horrible recruiters. Doba himself has said he made a huge miscalculation, and it was on the suggestion of robin P, which happened at ASU as well, and soon after Bruce Snyder was booted from ASU after going against the big boys in recruiting and not securing that A- minus player.
In terms of Wulff, he should have never been offered the job. They needed someone like Price who had instant cred to fix the mess that all the WSU assistants that were WSU grads left the program. Who aside from Walker was a good recruiter. Kenny Greene? Only if you are a 22 year old female. Rosie? Levy? Broussard was fired from I believe two other Pac 10 jobs now. Leon Burntnet? There is a reason why Leach's staff is so young. So those are the lessons I got from this board.
Well then there is still much for Wulff to accomplish. Will his complete crapfest of a coaching tenure stand the test of time.
We should do the whole champagne toast every year we are still on the list.
Yep...2004, 2005, and 2006 had 50% of the players never seeing the field. And between the three classes, 15 players made it to their redshirt senior season. You do get how bad that is? Not even sure 2008's class was close to that.
Did it ever occur to you that players didn't want to play for an FCS coach? That maybe those players came in wanting to play for a program that had a chance, and when he walked in the door they knew the program was dead.
Do you see me nitpicking Leach on BS stuff? There is nothing to defend. He gets his roll over contract. He gets to 2016 to field his team.
But why is it so ardent? Cause we built crap after 3 ten win seasons. We flushed that down the toilet that handed the turd off. If Leach took over in 2008 and had similar luck with injuries, had no QB, and you pissed and moaned at everything he did I would make the EXACT same arguments. I knew we were screwed as early as 2004 when Doba made two what seemed minor changes but it really affected recruiting. And our recruiting off those golden years was absolutely horrible. Paul Wulff with Big Sky players got as many or more players drafted than Doba and he was recruiting off 30 wins in three years. And in 2007 it was very clear what we were going to look like in 2008 regardless who was the coach. When Brink played bad, we gave up 53 and 52 to OSU and Oregon, and one guy had a fullback playing QB. I could envision scores in the 50's and 60's with inexperience at QB and the way teams were running the no huddle and one DT with experience. We gave up 48 to Arizona, 47 to USC. It was easy to see how this team would fair without Brink killing time off the clock between the 20's.
So Leach gets two years. He will be given 5 years to rebuild the program. If it isn't done by 2016, he would be on the hot seat for 2017. What is to defend? Anyone making claims he played Halliday when he wasn't feeling well? Anyone pissing and moaning other than in a rebuttal about missing out on two corners in 2012? Did I come on the board in 2012 and piss and moan about the CU game? Did I do it after the CSU game? Nope. Did I ask for Breske to be fired? Nope. Russell? Nope. Did I piss and moan that it wasn't soon enough? Nope. So what is there to defend?
Well, guess what, that is who their AD selected. Those players are the problem. They are no different save the public letter than M Wilson. That would be like players rejecting Breske because he coached at Montana. Or McGuire because he never coached the oline before.
So these players you speak of knew better than Moos/Sterk, and whoever else made that decision? Really? Because the know all FCS coaches suck, right? If that is the mentality, which I believe was the case, that is a flaw in their character.
And while you might think that is a large number, there were only three players eligible from the 2004 class, 6 from 2005, 6 from 2006. Everyone else never made it that far.
It's hilarious that your post starts with that sentence, then ends with this paragraph. And as you piss and moan about all those things, you're not ACTUALLY pissing and moaning, you're just educating people about the times you could have/wanted to piss and moan. You mention that Colorado game every week. You talk about your initial Breske skepticism frequently. You've constantly blamed the bad defensive backfield last year on Leach, without ever a note to why the senior class consisted of Tracy Clark, and guys in the Big Sky.
You have pissED and moanED about these with relative frequency on their own, but especially if you have to defend Wulff. Your Wulff comps- Bill Belichick and, if you're willing to place some blame... Foge Fazio (who's resume is so much more like Doba than Wulff it's uncanny). Two guys who Wulff couldn't touch in a million years. Your most frequent Leach comp? Jerry Pettibone.
To have written this with a straight face, the only possible explanation is that you're a robot without your "self awareness" chip activated, programmed by Paul Wulff.
Um. Yea. Am I missing something? Computer says it's the 16th. Article says was published the 16th. WSU twitter linked it this morning… Now I'm self conscious… what'd I do… ?
Holy S. I just completely spaced on what the date is.
I'm an idiot. Carry on.
Actually, averaging 5, five year program players per class is not that horribly below par.
I looked at every team in the conference a few years ago and the average for players who come in as scholarship freshmen, red shirt, and stick around for 5 years was around 6 or 7, I believe.
Consistently having a dozen red shirt seniors, as seemed to be Wulff's plan, was pretty unrealistic.
Does anything match the lack of talent recruited in 2008 and 2009 and the level of attrition from those classes? No one is stupid enough to argue Doba's recruiting classes in '04 and '05 weren't poor, but we do have a few here stupid enough to argue they were worse than what the next coach brought in, and then go on to suggest that coach left enough talent for his successor.
Still, I predicted long ago this onslaught of Wulffian defenses would occur. Call it manic, compulsive, or whatever.
"In the 10-year history of F/+, only 12 teams finished with worse ratings than 2009 Wazzu, and all were from non-power conferences"
So...in Wulffs 2nd year, we were a crappy mid-major team. Got it.
My only criticism of the article is that it proves that F+/- is only one measure of how bad a football team is. Both the 2008 and 2009 teams deserve to be in the list of the 10 worst BCS teams of the past decade. However, watching them both play, the 2008 squad was far worse. The stats can't take into account the way that other teams simply quit trying against us in 2008. By 2009, they were still crushing us, but they weren't subbing the water boys in. If anything, those two teams should be swapped.
I tend to agree. OTOH, that 2009 team definitely should have matched the Huskies 0-12- that SMU game was GIVEN to the Cougs- at least 3 of the last 5 drives ended in INT's, from a point where they were up 17 late in the third, and the only time they led all season was at the final whistle of that game.
You know what is surprising, our 2014 defense was worse in scoring than 2009. Ugh.
And don't forget Wilson burning the running backs playing in Colorado's d-backfield to erase a 27-17 deficit in the waning moments. Oh, and then there was Montana's sure win spoiled by C.J. Mizell's INT for a big return. Let's throw in the lucky win in the 2008 Apple Cup while we're at it. Nine and 40 was THAT close to being 5-44 (or 6-40 was that close to 3-43).
Well the upper end talent says different, doesn't it? ASk Walk what defensive line he would rather have. 08/09 or Cooper, Pole, Laurenzi, Paulo. Ask Mike Price or Leach whic QB's he owuld rather have, Tuel, Halliday, Clements, and Apadoca or Rogers, Lopina, Jt Levy and Morgan. Oline of Jacobson, Guerra, Fullington, Ecklund, BOsch, Forbes, Rodgers or Lesuma, Hannam, Guerra , Alfread, Ayers, Frietag. I am not even sure I would take 09 Wr's over 2012. I know who left better kickers in the stable. DB's? Not sure anyone matches what Buchanon brought to the table. So I am wondering how having kids make practice squads and getting drafted is that hard to grasp over players like Matt E and the like?
The clock management at the end of that MSU game made pee wee coaches roll their eyes.
