Moos a success?

[Coug95man2]

While there is an element of "Let's wait and see", I recently found an article from another site, from 2013, highlighting the 4 major Capital Projects WSU had going back then. I then started going through WSU's CAF portion of the website and found the 4 references again. The 4 in no particular order:

1. The FOB (was under construction at the time)
2. The New Soccer Complex
3. A New IPF
4. Baseball Clubhouse (although I think "clubhouse" is a little weak. Complex is more accurate IMHO)

So The FOB, Check. The New Soccer Complex, we've recently heard… Check. And now I've started to hear rumblings that there is movement on the IPF. A friend gave me a link to a Regents proposal by Moos (linked below if anyone cares. Nothing too exciting just indicates movement, IMHO) to update the plans for the IPF and he also told me that there are some "high rollers" that are being woo'ed with "gifts" being earmarked. Side note: I find it interesting with so many of us watching for these regent proposals, that this one slipped by...

Of course, we all have been told this kind of thing for years now… "IT'S ON THE WAY!!!" and it never happen. But I found this encouraging.

In 2013, there were 4 goals, one being close to finishing at the time. We are looking down the tunnel of finishing 3 out of the 4 major athletic projects. That's huge. While I don't carry pom-pom's for Moos, per se, I am willing to see how much he is doing for our Athletic Program. If the IPF comes to fruition (big "if"), I will look at the Moos legacy as a success. And if the IPF truly does happen, I'd also use that as an indicator of his ability, and willingness, to keep going. The IPF won't be the last thing he does for WSU.

http://regents.wsu.edu/meeting-date...ndoorpracticefacility.pdf?0.07083368394523859

 

[wazzubruce]

Your title can loose the question mark to be accurate.

 

[Cougatron]

Bill Moos has done an excellent job bringing the athletic department up to date. He's an incredible leader and someone I am so glad to have leading our schools athletics.

Now I understand that some people are disappointed in the performance of the teams, but over time those too will improve, but the facilities and improved structure of WSU athletics that Moos has built is a big picture long term improvement, and those are tremendously important and he's done an exceptional job delivering on that.

WSU was in a very poor position when he arrived, and he's made great strides in helping us build a strong foundation for the future. That's not easy to do when you are as small as we are. We're lucky to have him.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Moos is the beneficiary of having a president that believes whole-heartedly that athletics are a core part of the college experience and business plan. Having the entire university behind your endeavors is sure to make anyones job that much easier.

I ask earnestly: what real effect does Moos have on these projects and whether they happen or not? Is he envisioning them? Pitching them? Funding them?

I don't mean to beat up on Bill Moos; God knows he's an upgrade over the previous 2 ADs. But color me underwhelmed on his "significant impact" on the state of WSU sports. His first major influence in years was to sign off on the worst D1 coach ever, and his second coach isn't faring a whole lot better (yet.) The CAF is flounding (IMHO), season ticket sales are down, and fans are once again losing interest. We hear rumors of big gift donors, yet none are to be found. I am beginning to feel like BM is the CPW of ADs, where we are giving him way more rope than any other person in his position should be given due to the fact that he is a Coug.

 

[Coug95man2]

Moos is the beneficiary of having a president that believes whole-heartedly that athletics are a core part of the college experience and business plan. Having the entire university behind your endeavors is sure to make anyones job that much easier.

I ask earnestly: what real effect does Moos have on these projects and whether they happen or not? Is he envisioning them? Pitching them? Funding them?

I don't mean to beat up on Bill Moos; God knows he's an upgrade over the previous 2 ADs. But color me underwhelmed on his "significant impact" on the state of WSU sports. His first major influence in years was to sign off on the worst D1 coach ever, and his second coach isn't faring a whole lot better (yet.) The CAF is flounding (IMHO), season ticket sales are down, and fans are once again losing interest. We hear rumors of big gift donors, yet none are to be found. I am beginning to feel like BM is the CPW of ADs, where we are giving him way more rope than any other person in his position should be given due to the fact that he is a Coug.

You ask what real effect Moos has on these projects… If he doesn't initiate them, if he doesn't "pedal" them through planning, if he doesn't create a way to start funding them, it won't happen. If he does NOTHING, nothing happens. He starts, initiates, creates committees (if needed), looks for funding and see's the projects through.

Agreed, with a President Floyd behind him, they are a great duo that has a dual vision, making his job easier. But if Moos doesn't pedal this bike, NOTHING happens. Like many have said, it might be easy to spend a crap load of cash, via P12N but he's forwarded the Soccer Complex and now the rumblings regarding the IPF seem to be growing and are along the "legitimate" lines (i.e. the regents proposal to update plans… as an FYI, this is done many times just prior to "signing on the dotted line" and finalize a project. They need to finalize wants, lumber/concrete/labor costs, give regents progress report and forward notice of project assessment and timeline etc.).

Don't know what you expect but Moos has grown our athletic dept. by exponential marks compared to years past. JMHO, I guess.

 

[Cougatron]

Well I think it's a little more complex than that BleedCrimson.

In order for a collegiate athletic team to compete at a high level it needs the following. Quality Athletes and Quality Coaches.

Now he can only hire the Coach part. who in turn have to recruit the athletes. Athletes evaluate many different things upon choosing a school. The coach being just part of the equation.

Proximity - He can't control that.
Facilities - He can control that
Academic experience - He can't control that
Student Atmosphere - He has influence in that.

So what I look at... Is he bringing in experienced coaches who have a proven track record of success. Leach, Kent, etc. yeah I would say he is making a real effort to do that.

Facilities - Is he working to provide student athletes with attractive facilities that make them want to come and play at WSU? Yes he is doing an excellent job of that.

Is he working to create a positive atmosphere for students in the community? Spokane week etc. yes he is.

He's doing everything he can to elevate WSU as an athletic program and is putting down real progress on those fronts. Yes I'm believer of the "just because they are a coug" doesn't mean they are capable of growing WSU in a positive direction mentality too, but Moos is doing it in a very positive way, and that's why I'm big on him.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

95 and Tron,

My point was, and I guess I wasn't very clear on it:

I'm not convinced that any other competent AD couldn't accomplish the same things that Moos has. In other words, he's performing the base tasks assigned to his position. I mean, is that where we are at as Cougs? We expect the bare minimum from our AD, coaches, players? Wasn't Moos the one who said to raise expectations?

 

[Coug95man2]

95 and Tron,

My point was, and I guess I wasn't very clear on it:

I'm not convinced that any other competent AD couldn't accomplish the same things that Moos has. In other words, he's performing the base tasks assigned to his position. I mean, is that where we are at as Cougs? We expect the bare minimum from our AD, coaches, players? Wasn't Moos the one who said to raise expectations?

So to you, using the P12N money to build luxury suites, the FOB. Then to expand/improve the Soccer Complex and now it looks like the IPF is on the move… All of that in roughly 5-6 years… is average? I guess I need clarity on what you'd expect from an exceptional AD to do, in that time span?

Just in the construction aspect (we'll leave all the other stuff that Tron has outlined), it seems like that would keep an "average" person pretty dang busy, no?

 

[wazzucougs96]

Moos' act has worn thin, in my opinion.

 

[CPtheCoug]

Moos' act has worn thin, in my opinion.

Every once in awhile I start feeling that too. I start to doubt my faith in Mr. Moos every so often after I watch him an interview or commercial or what-have-you.

But then I think to myself: "Well... what is he suppose to say? Yes, our football is terribly inconsistent, yes basketball has seen better years, bla bla bla". He knows all of that, and I don't believe him constantly admitting it to the fan base will help his mission in growing the CAF/completing capital projects.

I also think back to around 2008-2010 and ask myself: "Is Martin Stadium better now than it was in/around 2008?" --- "Am I having a better time now than back then?" I would lean towards yes. The 2012 Apple Cup was amazing, the 2013 Utah game was a thrill, and hands down the BEST time I have ever had in Martin Stadium was 2014 Oregon game. Yes we lost, but we hung tough the ENTIRE time and the stadium was truly rockin' for 95% of the game. Add in the FOB, and numerous other "smaller" improvements to the athletic buildings and I would have to say Mr. Moos is doing about all he can in terms of improving WSU.

Is the act wearing thin a bit? Of course, I think it would be foolish not to be skeptical at times, but I see a brighter future for all of cougar athletics.

Until then, l am bound by my indefatigable good form to wait!

 

[95coug]

hands down the BEST time I have ever had in Martin Stadium was 2014 Oregon game.

You must be younger. The '14 UO game was one of the better recent ones, but I don't think it even cracks the top 5 for games in Martin.

 

[CPtheCoug]

You must be younger. The '14 UO game was one of the better recent ones, but I don't think it even cracks the top 5 for games in Martin.

Strike 95coug, strike true.

I was lucky enough to attend during the Wulff years, real entertainment let me tell ya....

 

[BiggsCoug]

For a program that has 10 bowls in 100 years, has had back to back winning seasons you could count on one hand, has traditionally been 500 or worse since a team was first fielded... WSU sure has a lot of fans that expect an enormous amount of something while having never had more then an incredible amount of nothing.

Do you know what you get with Bill Moos? Credibility. He's been other places. He's built other programs. He's actually had people with lots of money answer the phone when he calls. He's rubbed elbows with some pretty influential people. All of which Jim Sterk never even sniffed.

So are things going as smoothly as Moos would like? Im guessing not. However, he's moved the program forward more than any other AD WSU has had.

Will there come a day when he's taken it as far as it's gonna go? Maybe. And then it's on WSU to hire the next guy that can keep things moving.

I think it's premature to start the fires and gather the pitch forks for his job just yet. And this is coming from the guy that took hell for writing the Sterk sucked and needed to be fired when everyone else thought he was great.

 

[Coug95man2]

Biggs, I will also contend that the concept of "any AD worth their salt can spend Pac12Network money" isn't accurate. First off, yeah anyone can spend it but not on "stuff" (Press Box/luxury suites and FOB) that is a consensus "good job". What Moos has built on the construction side, has been a pretty big hit. To go back, look at what Mr. Sterks renderings looked like compared to what we have now!!! I can guarantee you that Sterk would have immediately gone into "save" mode and done the luxury suites as cheaply as possible.
Tell me how this vision fits with WSU?

And I'll also suggest that the FOB would not have looked anywhere near what it is. I'd even go so far as to say, we might not have the FOB. I can see whomever stuffing that money away or going with a new IPF or baseball complex, basketball stadium… Lets do a whole bunch of "what-ifs" and say he'd have expanded programs and started up a LaCrosse program (men's and women's) and instead of renovating the baseball field, made it a softball field and made an entirely new baseball complex… Or just demo'ed Beasley for something new and spent it all on just that project… basketball… that'll float WSU's athletic boat… Gotta "spread the wealth around" concept. Whomever could have spent the money in so many different ways, wasted it, on and on and on. Sky is the limit on how "anyone" could have spent that P12N money.
So in that light, I agree with Moos and his vision. The idea that football floats the boat is accurate and he has spent the money in the proper way, and on things that are a consensus hit. Don't like how he talks, OK. Don't like his Pom Pom attitude… yeah but like it's been pointed out, what's he supposed to do? When looking at his actions, his true hard-core actions regarding "job description", he's done pretty good. The one area he's "if'y" on is marketing, IMHO. But I also say that without knowing his budget.

Ooooohhhh. I know... We could maybe get a new arch on the other side of the field to match the one along Stadium Way, for millions!!!! That was a big hit with the first one.

 

[wazzucougs96]

You must be younger. The '14 UO game was one of the better recent ones, but I don't think it even cracks the top 5 for games in Martin.

The 02 Oregon game was light years better than last years The 06 Oregon game was also better. Though that game was pretty fun as far as losses go.

 

[wazzucougs96]

Every once in awhile I start feeling that too. I start to doubt my faith in Mr. Moos every so often after I watch him an interview or commercial or what-have-you.

But then I think to myself: "Well... what is he suppose to say? Yes, our football is terribly inconsistent, yes basketball has seen better years, bla bla bla". He knows all of that, and I don't believe him constantly admitting it to the fan base will help his mission in growing the CAF/completing capital projects.

I also think back to around 2008-2010 and ask myself: "Is Martin Stadium better now than it was in/around 2008?" --- "Am I having a better time now than back then?" I would lean towards yes. The 2012 Apple Cup was amazing, the 2013 Utah game was a thrill, and hands down the BEST time I have ever had in Martin Stadium was 2014 Oregon game. Yes we lost, but we hung tough the ENTIRE time and the stadium was truly rockin' for 95% of the game. Add in the FOB, and numerous other "smaller" improvements to the athletic buildings and I would have to say Mr. Moos is doing about all he can in terms of improving WSU.

Is the act wearing thin a bit? Of course, I think it would be foolish not to be skeptical at times, but I see a brighter future for all of cougar athletics.

Until then, l am bound by my indefatigable good form to wait!

Completely agree. Which is why I don't want him gone, I just ignore him every time he has something to say.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Biggs and 95,
Would you label a auto mechanic as successful if he took a run down jalopy with no tires or engine, bad paint and a beat up interior and (with a budget of millions) put on bald tires, 1300cc VW engine, leather seats and a $10000 paint job?

Biggs, you talk about "expecting a whole lot despite being the sh!t of the sh!t"... I'll say it again... MOOS TOLD US TOO. He told us to raise expectations, that should include him as well.

I'm not here to bash Moos. He has had successes - the FOB, stadium remodel, much needed capital improvements. The thing is - these were the bare minimum that HAD to happen. Otherwise we should have went DII. Any AD worth their salt knows this. Could any AD have gotten it done? Well, if they couldn't they weren't doing their job, plain and simple. Bill Moos is getting a lot of credit for getting the ball to the bottom of the hill when all he did was push it - gravity did all the work.

Finally, and this is something that Moos knows full and well, his legacy like everyone else in the Athletic department will be measured by wins and losses. It looks like he found a winner in EK, but the program most important to the school and the fans is still floundering. We were told to expect more - so I do expect more that 1 bowl game every 5 years. That was what we already had. More would be >.500 most years, bowl most years (lower bowl), bigger bowl every 5 years.

 

[95coug]

The 02 Oregon game was light years better than last years The 06 Oregon game was also better. Though that game was pretty fun as far as losses go.

This could be (and I think, has been) a thread all its own. In my mind, the best games I've seen in (limited to those I was actually in the stands for) Martin are:

1. '92 Apple Cup - the snow bowl. UW was #5 and already Rose Bowl-bound, and the Cougs blew them out. And I got paid to watch it.
2. '02 USC - Gesser v. Palmer for the Pac-10 title. Rien Long takes over in OT, and Drew Dunning wins it. This was really probably the best game, but the AC win gets the edge based on sentimentality
3. '89 USC - I was having a really good time, until Mari-Juana-vich ripped our hearts out
4. '02 UO - It was sloppy, and shouldn't have been as close as it was. Gesser didn't play like Gesser. But when a tipped ball bounced into Darling's hands for a TD, you kind of had to think things were going to work out for this team
5. There are a handful I could put here - '88 AC, the fourth quarters of the '96 and '12 Apple Cups (both games sucked before then), '97 Arizona, every time we were on defense in '94....

 

[95coug]

Biggs and 95,
Would you label a auto mechanic as successful if he took a run down jalopy with no tires or engine, bad paint and a beat up interior and (with a budget of millions) put on bald tires, 1300cc VW engine, leather seats and a $10000 paint job?

Biggs, you talk about "expecting a whole lot despite being the sh!t of the sh!t"... I'll say it again... MOOS TOLD US TOO. He told us to raise expectations, that should include him as well.

I'm not here to bash Moos. He has had successes - the FOB, stadium remodel, much needed capital improvements. The thing is - these were the bare minimum that HAD to happen. Otherwise we should have went DII. Any AD worth their salt knows this. Could any AD have gotten it done? Well, if they couldn't they weren't doing their job, plain and simple. Bill Moos is getting a lot of credit for getting the ball to the bottom of the hill when all he did was push it - gravity did all the work.

Finally, and this is something that Moos knows full and well, his legacy like everyone else in the Athletic department will be measured by wins and losses. It looks like he found a winner in EK, but the program most important to the school and the fans is still floundering. We were told to expect more - so I do expect more that 1 bowl game every 5 years. That was what we already had. More would be >.500 most years, bowl most years (lower bowl), bigger bowl every 5 years.

I think you're missing a big piece here. Those "much needed capital improvements" cost somewhere near $100 million - money that we didn't have, and would not have had without the Pac-12 TV contract. And, Moos was a big part of the reason that the Pac-12 has equitable distribution of the money. I have no confidence that the contracts would have worked out so well if Sterk had stayed...or that the money would have been spent as well...or that the projects would be completed as well...or that they would have been on time and under budget.

Moos has very little direct control of what happens on the field. All he can do is give the coaches the tools they need to get the kids they want. Moos is doing that better than anyone ever has at WSU. We're now at the point where the things he's done need to start paying dividends on the field, adding up some wins and ramping up interest again...and then those donors and sponsors will be more likely to answer the phone when Moos calls. I'd imagine that behind a closed door, Moos has told most of his coaches 'OK, I've delivered this for you....now it's your turn to deliver for me'.

 

[dgibbons]

This could be (and I think, has been) a thread all its own. In my mind, the best games I've seen in (limited to those I was actually in the stands for) Martin are:

1. '92 Apple Cup - the snow bowl. UW was #5 and already Rose Bowl-bound, and the Cougs blew them out. And I got paid to watch it.
2. '02 USC - Gesser v. Palmer for the Pac-10 title. Rien Long takes over in OT, and Drew Dunning wins it. This was really probably the best game, but the AC win gets the edge based on sentimentality
3. '89 USC - I was having a really good time, until Mari-Juana-vich ripped our hearts out
4. '02 UO - It was sloppy, and shouldn't have been as close as it was. Gesser didn't play like Gesser. But when a tipped ball bounced into Darling's hands for a TD, you kind of had to think things were going to work out for this team
5. There are a handful I could put here - '88 AC, the fourth quarters of the '96 and '12 Apple Cups (both games sucked before then), '97 Arizona, every time we were on defense in '94....

The 2002 USC game is the most sporting event I've ever attended.

The 2001 UCLA game was pretty good too (I mention it because it's not on your list). That was the game Trufant came back with the club. The defense was pretty stout, but the offense struggled. Minnich was out as I recall and we basically had zero rushing game.

 

[Coug95man2]

Biggs and 95,
Would you label a auto mechanic as successful if he took a run down jalopy with no tires or engine, bad paint and a beat up interior and (with a budget of millions) put on bald tires, 1300cc VW engine, leather seats and a $10000 paint job?

Biggs, you talk about "expecting a whole lot despite being the sh!t of the sh!t"... I'll say it again... MOOS TOLD US TOO. He told us to raise expectations, that should include him as well.

I'm not here to bash Moos. He has had successes - the FOB, stadium remodel, much needed capital improvements. The thing is - these were the bare minimum that HAD to happen. Otherwise we should have went DII. Any AD worth their salt knows this. Could any AD have gotten it done? Well, if they couldn't they weren't doing their job, plain and simple. Bill Moos is getting a lot of credit for getting the ball to the bottom of the hill when all he did was push it - gravity did all the work.

Finally, and this is something that Moos knows full and well, his legacy like everyone else in the Athletic department will be measured by wins and losses. It looks like he found a winner in EK, but the program most important to the school and the fans is still floundering. We were told to expect more - so I do expect more that 1 bowl game every 5 years. That was what we already had. More would be >.500 most years, bowl most years (lower bowl), bigger bowl every 5 years.

Bleed, I get what you're saying, but when you say "these were the bare minimum that HAD to happen", I just see all the idiots out there and see how we could have failed at implementing the "bare minimum". And I think Biggs touches on this a bit… our past is literally FULL of people that have failed at the "bare minimum" requirements, as AD, at President, at coach. So while I get what you're saying, I, dare I say "we", also see how all of this could have fallen through… easily. I'd even suggest that we had more chance of failing than getting these projects done, IMHO without Moos. Not because Moos is some god but there are more "Sterks" out there, especially as Biggs points out, our history leans towards hiring them. EDIT: I think that's all we're saying. Should we "expect" more? Sure, go for it. But I won't expect champagne on a beer budget, either. Seems like some expect that. Or another way of putting it… "expect more". Well, Moos has delivered more. Much, much more. Why aren't we happy?

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Bleed, I get what you're saying, but when you say "these were the bare minimum that HAD to happen", I just see all the idiots out there and see how we could have failed at implementing the "bare minimum". And I think Biggs touches on this a bit… our past is literally FULL of people that have failed at the "bare minimum" requirements, as AD, at President, at coach. So while I get what you're saying, I, dare I say "we", also see how all of this could have fallen through… easily. I'd even suggest that we had more chance of failing than getting these projects done, IMHO without Moos. Not because Moos is some god but there are more "Sterks" out there, especially as Biggs points out, our history leans towards hiring them. EDIT: I think that's all we're saying. Should we "expect" more? Sure, go for it. But I won't expect champagne on a beer budget, either. Seems like some expect that.

I was hoping you would mention Sterk, because while most of US consider him a failure, I imagine his boss(es) (Rawlins) considered him a huge success. He was tasked with balancing the budget and keeping the dept in the black, not winning. He did this in spades, to the tune of whoring out the football team to the highest bidder for a shite game in Seattle every year.

I don't know which are more prevalent, Floyds or Rawlins types, but if you are in a major conference and wish to remain there you have to have a Floyd. If WSU in all of its wisdom decides to bow out of big boy football in my lifetime, I will understand. I won't be happy, but I understand. We are a little tiny fish in a great big pond with very limited resources, and while football is important (to the fans), ultimately we are an institution of learning first and foremost. I guess my point is, there are more Rawlins types out there and we may end up with one again (God forbid), which could spell the end of Cougar football as we know it. Which is why it is SO important that the wonder team of Moos/ Floyd get us on the map and keep us there NOW.

 

[Observer11]

I was ok with the football team winning 10 games 3 times during Sterk's tenure. And the back-to-back NCAA runs in basketball were fun too. All of which happened under the thumb of the biggest peni$ ever to grace the president's office at WSU.

Given who he was working for and the monetary constraints (as well as the bullsh*t admissions office non-support of athletics), Sterk did the best he could with the hand he was dealt.

 

[Coug1990]

Completely agree. Which is why I don't want him gone, I just ignore him every time he has something to say.

I only ignore him when he is talking specifically about cheerle

I was hoping you would mention Sterk, because while most of US consider him a failure, I imagine his boss(es) (Rawlins) considered him a huge success. He was tasked with balancing the budget and keeping the dept in the black, not winning. He did this in spades, to the tune of whoring out the football team to the highest bidder for a shite game in Seattle every year.

I don't know which are more prevalent, Floyds or Rawlins types, but if you are in a major conference and wish to remain there you have to have a Floyd. If WSU in all of its wisdom decides to bow out of big boy football in my lifetime, I will understand. I won't be happy, but I understand. We are a little tiny fish in a great big pond with very limited resources, and while football is important (to the fans), ultimately we are an institution of learning first and foremost. I guess my point is, there are more Rawlins types out there and we may end up with one again (God forbid), which could spell the end of Cougar football as we know it. Which is why it is SO important that the wonder team of Moos/ Floyd get us on the map and keep us there NOW.

The Seattle game was good for the program. The going to Ohio States, ND's, Auburns were the body bag game. That you don't understand this means you really don't understand much. I think you must have a jealousy of Seattle or something

 

[Coug1990]

I think you're missing a big piece here. Those "much needed capital improvements" cost somewhere near $100 million - money that we didn't have, and would not have had without the Pac-12 TV contract. And, Moos was a big part of the reason that the Pac-12 has equitable distribution of the money. I have no confidence that the contracts would have worked out so well if Sterk had stayed...or that the money would have been spent as well...or that the projects would be completed as well...or that they would have been on time and under budget.

Moos has very little direct control of what happens on the field. All he can do is give the coaches the tools they need to get the kids they want. Moos is doing that better than anyone ever has at WSU. We're now at the point where the things he's done need to start paying dividends on the field, adding up some wins and ramping up interest again...and then those donors and sponsors will be more likely to answer the phone when Moos calls. I'd imagine that behind a closed door, Moos has told most of his coaches 'OK, I've delivered this for you....now it's your turn to deliver for me'.

Our facilities were among the worst in the conference. It held back Price, Doba and Wulff (yes, even him). WSU was getting further and further behind. What the money is doing is getting WSU at or near other conference schools. The biggest failing was not taking advantage of the first Rose Bowl and the three 10 win seasons.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I only ignore him when he is talking specifically about cheerle

The Seattle game was good for the program. The going to Ohio States, ND's, Auburns were the body bag game. That you don't understand this means you really don't understand much. I think you must have a jealousy of Seattle or something

Oh 1990, you just can't let it go can you?

Seattle was NOT good for the program, it was good for the department. The fact that you can't understand THAT... fck it, nvm.

Sorry you're having a bad day and want to play the Yaki/ Ed game with me, I'm not engaging.

 

[CPtheCoug]

Oh 1990, you just can't let it go can you?

Seattle was NOT good for the program, it was good for the department. The fact that you can't understand THAT... fck it, nvm.

Sorry you're having a bad day and want to play the Yaki/ Ed game with me, I'm not engaging.

I think the idea was fine, the execution was horrible though. It should have never counted as a home game... ever....

 

[Loyal Coug]

This is actually a pretty good thread.

On the best games ever, I was at every home game between 1990 and about 2010, plus a bunch before that including the 1982 Apple Cup. THAT was the best ever, with the Snow Bowl a close second. 1988 Apple Cup was colder than heck but pretty good also.

On Moos, I like Moos. That said, I am very concerned about the debt load that we have gotten ourselves into, and fear that the TV money will fall short of predictions. Recall a thread on this when our finances came out a few months ago. It reminds me of some people I knew that built a big house and ran out and bought a new truck and a new ATV. Then when the payments hit, including their property tax bill, they had to bail out of the house into a place worse than the one they originally lived in. Let's see where our finances are in a couple of years and have this conversation again.

Sterk - Sterk was a nice guy, but vanilla. He was not a bad guy or an incompetent guy, he is probably about what I would have been like as an AD. Conservative and boring. Now Rick Dickson was a POS.

Seattle game - went once, never went back. One every three or four years would have been /would be fine, against a big-time team as part of a home and home. Every year against mid to crap teams (that beat us anyway under CPW), not so good.

 

[wazzucougs96]

I was ok with the football team winning 10 games 3 times during Sterk's tenure. And the back-to-back NCAA runs in basketball were fun too. All of which happened under the thumb of the biggest peni$ ever to grace the president's office at WSU.

Given who he was working for and the monetary constraints (as well as the bullsh*t admissions office non-support of athletics), Sterk did the best he could with the hand he was dealt.

Sterk royally screwed the pooch on any opportunity to fund raise on the backs of those successful runs. Him and his bosses were thinking short when he should have been thinking long.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

For a program that has 10 bowls in 100 years, has had back to back winning seasons you could count on one hand, has traditionally been 500 or worse since a team was first fielded... WSU sure has a lot of fans that expect an enormous amount of something while having never had more then an incredible amount of nothing.

Do you know what you get with Bill Moos? Credibility. He's been other places. He's built other programs. He's actually had people with lots of money answer the phone when he calls. He's rubbed elbows with some pretty influential people. All of which Jim Sterk never even sniffed.

So are things going as smoothly as Moos would like? Im guessing not. However, he's moved the program forward more than any other AD WSU has had.

Will there come a day when he's taken it as far as it's gonna go? Maybe. And then it's on WSU to hire the next guy that can keep things moving.

I think it's premature to start the fires and gather the pitch forks for his job just yet. And this is coming from the guy that took hell for writing the Sterk sucked and needed to be fired when everyone else thought he was great.

I agree with a lot of what you say except the first sentence. If you take a look at any of the sites that track yearly results, you'll see that finishing below 0.500 wasn't a traditional thing for WSU for some stretches. Looking since 1928, the first year that WSU played 10 games, you see the following pattern:

1928-1945: 15 positive seasons, 2 losing seasons. Having a great coach in Hollingberry helped
1946-1956: 1 winning season, 10 losing seasons
1957-1965: 5 winning seasons, 4 losing seasons
1966-1980: 2 winning seasons, 13 losing seasons
1981-2003: 11 winning seasons, 12 losing seasons (four different coaches had winning records in this time period)
2004-Present: 1 "non-losing" season, 10 losing seasons

Even though we haven't been to a lot of bowl games, we've had stretches where success wasn't an unreasonable assumption. When we've had good coaches, our teams have finished with winning records about half the time. That's all any WSU fan expects. Keep us compettive and give us a good season every 2-3 years. Not 6-7 good mind you. From 1956 to 2007, every coach besides Jackie Sherrill (one year) had a team finish with 7+ wins. Moos talks about raising expectations, I'm thinking that at some point, our football team needs to actually meet expectations again.

I do agree that Leach isn't going anywhere at the end of this season no matter what and I agree that even though we need to be pushing Leach to succeed, there isn't any point in starting a "Fire Leach" site.

 

[Coug95man2]

I agree with a lot of what you say except the first sentence. If you take a look at any of the sites that track yearly results, you'll see that finishing below 0.500 wasn't a traditional thing for WSU for some stretches. Looking since 1928, the first year that WSU played 10 games, you see the following pattern:

1928-1945: 15 positive seasons, 2 losing seasons. Having a great coach in Hollingberry helped
1946-1956: 1 winning season, 10 losing seasons
1957-1965: 5 winning seasons, 4 losing seasons
1966-1980: 2 winning seasons, 13 losing seasons
1981-2003: 11 winning seasons, 12 losing seasons (four different coaches had winning records in this time period)
2004-Present: 1 "non-losing" season, 10 losing seasons

Even though we haven't been to a lot of bowl games, we've had stretches where success wasn't an unreasonable assumption. When we've had good coaches, our teams have finished with winning records about half the time. That's all any WSU fan expects. Keep us compettive and give us a good season every 2-3 years. Not 6-7 good mind you. From 1956 to 2007, every coach besides Jackie Sherrill (one year) had a team finish with 7+ wins. Moos talks about raising expectations, I'm thinking that at some point, our football team needs to actually meet expectations again.

I do agree that Leach isn't going anywhere at the end of this season no matter what and I agree that even though we need to be pushing Leach to succeed, there isn't any point in starting a "Fire Leach" site.

I won't speak for Biggs but from my standpoint, all this talk of "raising expectations" isn't over the past 100 years. To me, that talk is in reference to the "Coug'ed it" Era. And while I say that, I do agree that our football program has to meet expectations, at some point. I don't think anyone is arguing that point. Nor do I think anyone ever has. There has been PLENTY of debate about when the scale needs to tip but Flat, we all agree raising the bar is needed.

 

[Whitworth-Coug]

The 2002 USC game is the most sporting event I've ever attended"

AGREE

 

[Coug1990]

Oh 1990, you just can't let it go can you?

Seattle was NOT good for the program, it was good for the department. The fact that you can't understand THAT... fck it, nvm.

Sorry you're having a bad day and want to play the Yaki/ Ed game with me, I'm not engaging.

And you are? It was good for the program and the department. If you think that playing the Seattle game somehow hurt the program or hurt how they played in Pullman is ridiculous. It brought in money to the program. It brought in exposure here in the Puget Sound to the school. Not sure if you live here in Seattle or not, but there is a ton of money being spent on advertising here in the greater Seattle area. You cannot go an hour without seeing a WSU commercial.

The football program was bad because the football program was bad. That the program was bad had zero to do with the Seattle game. It was bad for a century before WSU began to play games there.

 

[dgibbons]

AGREE

For the record, it was supposed to say exciting after most.

 

[wazzucougs96]

And you are? It was good for the program and the department. If you think that playing the Seattle game somehow hurt the program or hurt how they played in Pullman is ridiculous. It brought in money to the program. It brought in exposure here in the Puget Sound to the school. Not sure if you live here in Seattle or not, but there is a ton of money being spent on advertising here in the greater Seattle area. You cannot go an hour without seeing a WSU commercial.

The football program was bad because the football program was bad. That the program was bad had zero to do with the Seattle game. It was bad for a century before WSU began to play games there.

How was getting embarrassed year after year in Seattle good for the football program?

 

[wulffui]

How was getting embarrassed year after year in Seattle good for the football program?

Our football team wasn't getting embarrassed in Seattle because Seattle. They were getting embarrassed in Seattle because our football team.

 

[Geoduck12]

Moos is the beneficiary of having a president that believes whole-heartedly that athletics are a core part of the college experience and business plan. Having the entire university behind your endeavors is sure to make anyones job that much easier.

I ask earnestly: what real effect does Moos have on these projects and whether they happen or not? Is he envisioning them? Pitching them? Funding them?

I don't mean to beat up on Bill Moos; God knows he's an upgrade over the previous 2 ADs. But color me underwhelmed on his "significant impact" on the state of WSU sports. His first major influence in years was to sign off on the worst D1 coach ever, and his second coach isn't faring a whole lot better (yet.) The CAF is flounding (IMHO), season ticket sales are down, and fans are once again losing interest. We hear rumors of big gift donors, yet none are to be found. I am beginning to feel like BM is the CPW of ADs, where we are giving him way more rope than any other person in his position should be given due to the fact that he is a Coug.

Moos has the trust and confidence of the president, building and maintaining that supportive environment is what makes any AD successful at any University and Moos has done that.

 

[95coug]

Our facilities were among the worst in the conference. It held back Price, Doba and Wulff (yes, even him). WSU was getting further and further behind. What the money is doing is getting WSU at or near other conference schools. The biggest failing was not taking advantage of the first Rose Bowl and the three 10 win seasons.

I agree we definitely squandered momentum. There should have been a huge fundraising effort following the RB, and even more during 2001-2003. I don't think it would have brought the money that the TV deal has, but it could have started the ball rolling earlier and built a better foundation for the TV money.

Instead, we built a couple of bathrooms, banned "Wazzu", and sat idly by while the program augered in.

 

[CPtheCoug]

On Moos, I like Moos. That said, I am very concerned about the debt load that we have gotten ourselves into, and fear that the TV money will fall short of predictions. Recall a thread on this when our finances came out a few months ago. It reminds me of some people I knew that built a big house and ran out and bought a new truck and a new ATV. Then when the payments hit, including their property tax bill, they had to bail out of the house into a place worse than the one they originally lived in. Let's see where our finances are in a couple of years and have this conversation again.

Usually municipality lending (I know, not the exact term to use, but you get the idea), can be pretty strict. There are a ton of variables that are considered before any revenue bonds are issued, most notably a reliable and consistent source of repayment. There is valid fear that the Pac12 network revenue stream will "dry-up" or otherwise fall short of expectations --- events that would ultimately tank the athletic department. In that regard, do we know the source of funding for the construction bonds? If financing came from a bank, I can't see the bank approving bonds of that magnitude if the source of repayment is dependent on Pac12 network money.

WSU is most likely servicing the debt of these bonds from multiple diverse revenue streams. Also, I wouldn't worry too much about the athletic department running up a deficit the last few years; for you alumni business owners would surely know, there are many ways to operate at a "loss" on an income statement without actually losing any money.

 

[95coug]

Seattle game - went once, never went back. One every three or four years would have been /would be fine, against a big-time team as part of a home and home. Every year against mid to crap teams (that beat us anyway under CPW), not so good.

As originally billed, the SEattle game was supposed to be an occasional thing, AND a way to get "marquee" teams to play a WSU "home" game. But after that first year near-sellout, and what I assume was a pretty decent payday, it became regular. Of course, attendance eroded quickly and almost continuously...and little effort was spent trying to bring in those bigger teams.

The way it ended up being managed, the only thing the Seattle game did was give west side "fans" another excuse not to come to Pullman.