You wanna know why WSU is struggling???

[BiggsCoug]

2 high school kids left from Coach Turd's 2011 disastrous recruiting class.
8 high school kids left from Coach Leach's 2012 hired late to the party recruiting class.

That's 10 kids that have 4 or 5 years in the program. That simply isn't enough to push WSU into the upper tier of the conference.

I read posts all the time about how Leach should have WSU in a bowl this year or else his seat should be hot! Whatever. 10 veteran kids? 12% of your roster is going into their 4th or 5th year in the program. That's a lot of young bodies on the field.

I wrote on this board in 2011 that Turd was going to screw WSU and even if he rebuilt it to a bowl game, the next rebuild job was coming after his 2011 class. He signed 21 high school players, 6 of which never showed. Of the 15 high school kids (which is essentially a USC sanctioned recruiting class), how many finished their careers? How many made it 5 years? Didn't we all listen to the "doing it the right way" crap about redshirting your entire class???

Coach Leach took over a disaster. The fact that some fans are so short sighted that they can't/won't/don't/refuse to understand that it takes time to develop a program OR that WSU has never had any kind of sustained success.... ever, yet they are unhappy with the state of the program because they thought he'd win more games??? Simply amazing.

CougEd is dumb.

 

[dgibbons]

2 high school kids left from Coach Turd's 2011 disastrous recruiting class.
8 high school kids left from Coach Leach's 2012 hired late to the party recruiting class.

That's 10 kids that have 4 or 5 years in the program. That simply isn't enough to push WSU into the upper tier of the conference.

I read posts all the time about how Leach should have WSU in a bowl this year or else his seat should be hot! Whatever. 10 veteran kids? 12% of your roster is going into their 4th or 5th year in the program. That's a lot of young bodies on the field.

I wrote on this board in 2011 that Turd was going to screw WSU and even if he rebuilt it to a bowl game, the next rebuild job was coming after his 2011 class. He signed 21 high school players, 6 of which never showed. Of the 15 high school kids (which is essentially a USC sanctioned recruiting class), how many finished their careers? How many made it 5 years? Didn't we all listen to the "doing it the right way" crap about redshirting your entire class???

Coach Leach took over a disaster. The fact that some fans are so short sighted that they can't/won't/don't/refuse to understand that it takes time to develop a program OR that WSU has never had any kind of sustained success.... ever, yet they are unhappy with the state of the program because they thought he'd win more games??? Simply amazing.

CougEd is dumb.

9-40 = success. It's the new mathED.

 

[chinookpirate]

If only Leach could have seen what was coming 4 years ago...

 

[E Jones]

If only Leach could have seen what was coming 4 years ago...

What does that mean?

 

[chinookpirate]

If Leach saw 4 years ago what Biggs sees today, he could have brought in enough of YakiCoug's sure fire JC's to avoid struggle.

 

[GoldenCoug]

If Leach saw 4 years ago what Biggs sees today, he could have brought in enough of YakiCoug's sure fire JC's to avoid struggle.

I know this response from Chinook is loaded with sarcasm, but it also has a element of truth. When Leach first came in he did not use JC players to any great degree because that is not what he likes to do or believes in. Meantime in Tempe Graham loaded up on JC kids the first two classes making the Devils much more competitive to start with. The downside for ASU is they have very little depth in the O Line because he did not recruit HS guys there, but he did build a winning program quickly, and they are on a roll.

I agree with Bigg's particularly on his views regarding the O LIne, but maybe we could have expedited the rebuild by using more JC guys to begin with.

 

[wazzucougs96]

If Leach saw 4 years ago what Biggs sees today, he could have brought in enough of YakiCoug's sure fire JC's to avoid struggle.

That is sticking your fingers in a dam that needs to be completely rebuilt.

 

[wulffui]

I know this response from Chinook is loaded with sarcasm, but it also has a element of truth. When Leach first came in he did not use JC players to any great degree because that is not what he likes to do or believes in. Meantime in Tempe Graham loaded up on JC kids the first two classes making the Devils much more competitive to start with. The downside for ASU is they have very little depth in the O Line because he did not recruit HS guys there, but he did build a winning program quickly, and they are on a roll.

I agree with Bigg's particularly on his views regarding the O LIne, but maybe we could have expedited the rebuild by using more JC guys to begin with.

I don't know- if I were an ASU fan, I'd be a little leery that a guy who seems focused on the job he wants, rather than the job he has, emphasizing "win now" pieces over developing guys. If he stays ten years, good for them. But if he were to bail out- like he has at all his other stops- you'd either need to hire to that mentality, or have some struggles.

 

[BiggsCoug]

If Leach saw 4 years ago what Biggs sees today, he could have brought in enough of YakiCoug's sure fire JC's to avoid struggle.

Unless you're a new hire at a school that is what I would call blue blooded... Your first couple recruiting classes are gonna be a struggle.

These coaches are evaluating kids and building relationships with them when they are freshmen or sophomores. You have to have an enormous amount of something behind you to show up in a school and pull a kid away from a school that's been building a relationship with him and his family for two or three years.

So Leach shows up and has a month to build a class. He's lucky to even get in the door on some kids let alone get them on campus or to sign the LOI.

The next year gets a little better.

The JC kids are the same way. You just show up in December as a coach. You haven't had a chance to really work with the kids and see what your needs are or are not. Especially with new schemes being implemented.

So while I agree Leach probably needed to get a few JC guys his first year, where do you start? What position do you take? Can you even get in the conversation after this JC kid has been recruiting thru high school and 2 years into college by some staffs???

If there were a school on the West Coast that should have a reputation for taking JC kids and developing them... it's WSU.

 

[CougEd]

Unless you're a new hire at a school that is what I would call blue blooded... Your first couple recruiting classes are gonna be a struggle.

These coaches are evaluating kids and building relationships with them when they are freshmen or sophomores. You have to have an enormous amount of something behind you to show up in a school and pull a kid away from a school that's been building a relationship with him and his family for two or three years.

So Leach shows up and has a month to build a class. He's lucky to even get in the door on some kids let alone get them on campus or to sign the LOI.

The next year gets a little better.

The JC kids are the same way. You just show up in December as a coach. You haven't had a chance to really work with the kids and see what your needs are or are not. Especially with new schemes being implemented.

So while I agree Leach probably needed to get a few JC guys his first year, where do you start? What position do you take? Can you even get in the conversation after this JC kid has been recruiting thru high school and 2 years into college by some staffs???

If there were a school on the West Coast that should have a reputation for taking JC kids and developing them... it's WSU.

Good grief...The problem is that Leach did not get DB help immediately. There were enough pieces, sporadic as they may be, that if he hit on Dockery and Jackson, they wouldn't be giving up 2009 type numbers. And where was this "understanding Biggs" when the last guy was left with a crap pile? And BTW Turd now has more players drafted coming off crap seasons that a Holiday Bowl. Maybe, Just maybe, turds recruiting wasn't as crappy and it was Doba's that was the real crapper.

 

[wulffui]

Good grief...The problem is that Leach did not get DB help immediately. There were enough pieces, sporadic as they may be, that if he hit on Dockery and Jackson, they wouldn't be giving up 2009 type numbers. And where was this "understanding Biggs" when the last guy was left with a crap pile? And BTW Turd now has more players drafted coming off crap seasons that a Holiday Bowl. Maybe, Just maybe, turds recruiting wasn't as crappy and it was Doba's that was the real crapper.

It's inexplicable how Wulff guys didn't get drafted under Wulff, but now that Leach is coaching them, some are.

It's as though one coach is way better at player development than the other.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Good grief...The problem is that Leach did not get DB help immediately. There were enough pieces, sporadic as they may be, that if he hit on Dockery and Jackson, they wouldn't be giving up 2009 type numbers. And where was this "understanding Biggs" when the last guy was left with a crap pile? And BTW Turd now has more players drafted coming off crap seasons that a Holiday Bowl. Maybe, Just maybe, turds recruiting wasn't as crappy and it was Doba's that was the real crapper.

Doba didn't do much better recruiting. He is a much better football coach then Coach T.

 

[CougPatrol]

Coach Leach took over a disaster. The fact that some fans are so short sighted that they can't/won't/don't/refuse to understand that it takes time to develop a program OR that WSU has never had any kind of sustained success.... ever, yet they are unhappy with the state of the program because they thought he'd win more games???

Most of the posts on here are from people who are intentionally trying to stir the pot. Regardless, the posters on here do NOT represent the majority of our fan base.

To your point, I agree with you. The "typical" fan doesn't follow the program closely enough to understand or care about what the previous coaching staff did and what the challenges are for the new coach. That's why I've made a point of saying that, right or wrong, no coaches get 8 years to implement their system. If Leach puts out another 3-9 or 4-8 season, he's not going to get fired, but his seat is going to get warm.

 

[CougEd]

It's inexplicable how Wulff guys didn't get drafted under Wulff, but now that Leach is coaching them, some are.

It's as though one coach is way better at player development than the other.

Well not sure his underclassman were eligible to get drafted. Or maybe Rankin is like Gauta or Wolfgram. Just JC's who were good but not good enough.

 

[CougEd]

Doba didn't do much better recruiting. He is a much better football coach then Coach T.

Actually, he did worse and factor in what cashe he had to recruit with vs coach T...not even close.

 

[Coug1990]

Doba didn't do much better recruiting. He is a much better football coach then Coach T.

That's just it. Doba and Wulff recruited about the same. But, Doba left the program is so much better shape. Ed and a few others do not want to here it though. Everything is Doba's and his staf's fault. It explains it all for them, as it relieves Wulff of most of his responsibility for a disaster. Doba's teams for the most part played competitive football. Yes, they got blown out in games. So has Price, so has Wulff and so has Leach.

 

[CougPatrol]

Doba and Wulff recruited about the same. But, Doba left the program is so much better shape.

Bill Doba is one of my all-time favorite Cougs. Such a great guy and a great coach.

Unfortunately, his head coaching tenure in Pullman is for me, the worst in our programs history. Wulff was awful coach. Far worse than Doba. Thing is, had Doba and his staff not driven our program (which was at the apex of our 100+ year football history) into the ground, Wulff would have never been a candidate.

Doba's staff (not Doba) was littered with douchebags who dropped the ball in the worst possible way at a time when it had never been easier to recruit to Pullman. Same with the A.D. and President at the time. To quote my Italian brothers..."How do you F@ck that up?" Letting Price walk without the biggest contract we could squeeze. Not recognizing what was happening under Doba after year 2. Replacing Doba with a $550K/year I-AA coach 80 miles up the road.

Wulff sucked. He was awful. The worst ever. But he should have never been hired. Doba's staff let the entire program down. They are forever in my crosshair of blame.

 

[Coug1990]

Bill Doba is one of my all-time favorite Cougs. Such a great guy and a great coach.

Unfortunately, his head coaching tenure in Pullman is for me, the worst in our programs history. Wulff was awful coach. Far worse than Doba. Thing is, had Doba and his staff not driven our program (which was at the apex of our 100+ year football history) into the ground, Wulff would have never been a candidate.

Doba's staff (not Doba) was littered with douchebags who dropped the ball in the worst possible way at a time when it had never been easier to recruit to Pullman. Same with the A.D. and President at the time. To quote my Italian brothers..."How do you F@ck that up?" Letting Price walk without the biggest contract we could squeeze. Not recognizing what was happening under Doba after year 2. Replacing Doba with a $550K/year I-AA coach 80 miles up the road.

Wulff sucked. He was awful. The worst ever. But he should have never been hired. Doba's staff let the entire program down. They are forever in my crosshair of blame.

I believe that if any other coach (other than Wulff) would have followed Bill Doba, you would see Bill Doba's time as a head coach in an entirely different light. Wulff was that bad at everything. He would not be considered a great coach or anything, but his tenure as the head man would be just like any other mediocre/average coach at a school that ultimately loses his job (ex. Rick Nueheisel at UCLA).

That Wulff came in and was so utterly bad at everything made Doba look worst than he actually was. It is also making Leach look worse than he actually is in the beginning of his tenure as the head man.

Look at the basketball program. Paul Graham was in way over his head and the program was in shambles. The Bennett's are hired and the program is turned around. Yet, people are not continually up in arms about Graham. What if a coach like Bone had been hired to follow Graham. Everything would be in a different light to how we see them all.

 

[Coug1990]

Actually, he did worse and factor in what cashe he had to recruit with vs coach T...not even close.

This makes me laugh. From day one to the end of his time as head man, Wulff and his staff were more likely to recruit against the Portland States of the world than the Oregon States of the World.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I think our struggles are more complex than "Wulff sucks!". That was a big part of it though.

1) Wulff's recruiting sucked. He had a (relatively) good class in 2010 that had some decent talent in it but frankly, the bottom half of that class was underwhelming. His 2009 class had some guys with talent and speed but absolutely no dedication to the game. Buckley, Forzani, Valenzuela, Atofau, and Barrington were all kids that had plenty of talent but just lacked the love of the game where they were willing to work at it. 2011 was hurt by the fact that anyone with a brain knew that Wulff was in trouble and he just couldn't compete on the recruiting trail. As Biggs said, the holes in Wulff's recruiting would make it tough on anyone.

2) Jim Sterk. First, he hired Wulff. I don't think that Wulff is as bad as many think but without a doubt, he was not up to the task and was a bad hire for WSU. What made the situation worse was that Sterk made it clear to Wulff that it was more important to clean up the program than it was to win games. They bombed our program back into the stone ages to stake a moral high ground that nobody else gave a crap about. Some clean up was necessary, but contrary to what any purists think, USC fans would rather vacate a 55-19 victory over Oklahoma than not have it in the first place. Same goes for us. We'd rather have a few potheads and go 5-8 with some close losses in 2008 instead of burning the house down.

3) Leach is an a-hole. I mean that in the best and most positive kind of way. He tells people what he thinks and he doesn't play favorites. The more he likes you, the harder he is on you. In the long run, WSU will be better off because of Mike's character and way of handling things. In the short term, he ran off some players and discouraged some others who weren't prepared to deal with him. 2012 was a mess because of Leach's caustic attitude towards players as much as anything else. We will eventually have a mentally strong team because of Leach.

4) Leach's coaching. We have lost at least one game per year because Leach often abandons basic football rules and principles, particularly late in games. It was a problem at Tech and it's been a problem at WSU. In the long run, he'll win more games than he loses because of his style (we hope) but ask any Tech fan about losing to 6-7 Texas A&M or 6-7 Colorado or 2-10 Colorado or 4-7 Oklahoma State or 7-5 New Mexico or 3-8 Kansas. Even when his teams were good, they would occasionally get rolled by a nobody.

5) Wulff sucked. Again, "worst in history" isn't a tag that I'd put on the guy, but the support for WSU football fell apart during his tenure because he failed to put a product on the field that people could believe in. Right as he got you to the point where you were hopeful (3-1 in 2011), you could feel it all fall apart shortly thereafter (OSU in Seattle). At some point, winning is all that matters and close games against UCLA and Utah don't mean anything when you are home for the holidays. The apathy that his teams engendered is poisoning our fanbase today. One of our issues is that our players undoubtedly don't play quite as hard as the guys at UW, USC or Oregon because at the end of the day, they know that is "ok" to lose. Before Wulff, every loss was an agonizing event where we talked about what we could have done better even when facing teams with more talent. Nowadays......we lose because we aren't good enough. That is a incredibly difficult mentality to change.

 

[dgibbons]

I know this response from Chinook is loaded with sarcasm, but it also has a element of truth. When Leach first came in he did not use JC players to any great degree because that is not what he likes to do or believes in. Meantime in Tempe Graham loaded up on JC kids the first two classes making the Devils much more competitive to start with. The downside for ASU is they have very little depth in the O Line because he did not recruit HS guys there, but he did build a winning program quickly, and they are on a roll.

I agree with Bigg's particularly on his views regarding the O LIne, but maybe we could have expedited the rebuild by using more JC guys to begin with.

Leach has taken a fair number of JC guys. Not KSU or ASU level, but quite a few. The JC guys have added depth to the OL. Seydel is the only one that has seen significant PT.

 

[spongebob11]

Bill Doba is one of my all-time favorite Cougs. Such a great guy and a great coach.

Unfortunately, his head coaching tenure in Pullman is for me, the worst in our programs history. Wulff was awful coach. Far worse than Doba. Thing is, had Doba and his staff not driven our program (which was at the apex of our 100+ year football history) into the ground, Wulff would have never been a candidate.

Doba's staff (not Doba) was littered with douchebags who dropped the ball in the worst possible way at a time when it had never been easier to recruit to Pullman. Same with the A.D. and President at the time. To quote my Italian brothers..."How do you F@ck that up?" Letting Price walk without the biggest contract we could squeeze. Not recognizing what was happening under Doba after year 2. Replacing Doba with a $550K/year I-AA coach 80 miles up the road.

Wulff sucked. He was awful. The worst ever. But he should have never been hired. Doba's staff let the entire program down. They are forever in my crosshair of blame.

Yep. Pretty much sums it up

 

[95coug]

I think our struggles are more complex than "Wulff sucks!". That was a big part of it though.

. The apathy that his teams engendered is poisoning our fanbase today.

I'll take that even further -
The combined effect of the back-to-back Doba/Wulff failures is going to continue to have a compounding effect for at least a decade. From 2004-2007, we were on a decline, and re-developed a knack for finding a way to lose. How many games did we lose in the 4th quarter, especially in 04-05? Then, as the remaining stars (Harrison and Hill in particular) left, the offense got weaker, and a bit less exciting...and pretty soon we weren't leading in the 4th quarter very often. And then came 2008...Doba, Bumpus, Brink, and a raft of others are gone, and we fell off a cliff. For the next couple years, we "earned" 3 wins against crappy teams (Portland State '08, Idaho State & UNLV '11). In between we beat a bad UW team about to lose its coach (UW '08), two that didn't show up to play (OSU '10, ASU '11), we got lucky bounces against mid-majors and FCS teams (SMU '09, Montana State '10), and a team that didn't have any DBs available to play (CU '11). As far as I'm concerned, we didn't win the SMU, MSU, and CU games as much as they lost them.

Point is, this week WSU is graduating its 9th consecutive class that has NEVER seen a winning team. Most of those classes never even saw a competitive team. Those of us who sit on the south side could see the impact - the student section stopped filling by 2009. Some games, it didn't get much more than maybe 2/3 full in the 2nd quarter...and then half of the students wouldn't come back for the 2nd half. It was only last season that I saw games where the student section was pretty much full. This means that at least 5, maybe up to 8 or 9 classes, have gone through WSU and remained basically ambivalent. They don't follow closely enough to come when they're on campus, so those kids aren't going to buy season tickets and come back for games. They're not going to donate. That's an impact that isn't going to go away, and it won't be diluted until the game on the field is interesting enough to draw students in.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Most of the posts on here are from people who are intentionally trying to stir the pot. Regardless, the posters on here do NOT represent the majority of our fan base.

To your point, I agree with you. The "typical" fan doesn't follow the program closely enough to understand or care about what the previous coaching staff did and what the challenges are for the new coach. That's why I've made a point of saying that, right or wrong, no coaches get 8 years to implement their system. If Leach puts out another 3-9 or 4-8 season, he's not going to get fired, but his seat is going to get warm.

CP, I don't think his seat gets warm at all if he has another losing season. What's WSU gonna do? Fire him?

Let's be honest about WSU's reputation in coaching circles. It sucks. It's a roll up your sleeves job. You can't hide behind being a bad coach but a good recruiter or being a good coach but a bad recruiter. Both have to be good. Little margin for error than at most schools and it's slim there too. Not at the top of the pay scale for the head man or assistants. And now you're gonna run out a guy that has a very good reputation amongst his peers as a coach and person?

Where exactly does WSU get off putting Leach on the hot seat? Is it the wealth of football success in the last 100 years? Is it the 100's of millions of dollars WSU has spent on it's football program? Is it the fan base that has donated at a level like Alabama?

No. None of those things. I wouldn't go so far to say that if Leach can't turn WSU around no one can. But it's pretty f*cking close.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Actually, he did worse and factor in what cashe he had to recruit with vs coach T...not even close.

Ed, this isn't about Doba. In fact, if you want to redirect the thread I'd just assume you started your own.

 

[Cougatron]

Bigg I agree with you. It was bad with Wulff...incredibly bad.

Football programs like ours at WSU require consistent recruiting and time to mature.

Wulff was all about selling us on the maturity "doing it the right way blah blah blah" but his recruiting was beyond bad for multiple years. Yes people like Deone , and Travis Long were the diamonds in the rough, but for the most part.... It was nothing but rough.

How rough?
According to rivals
class of 2008 - #87... behind programs like eastern michigan, kent state, toledo, western michigan

Let that sink in...

2009? - #93 ....even worse...behind Northern Illinois...FAU....New Mexico etc...

2010? - #93 .... behind Miami (OH) Akron etc...

2011? - #73 still behind Wyoming and Toledo...

We are a Pac-12 BCS program that has been to the Rose Bowl (in the last decade from these years) and this is what we were recruiting at. It's a miracle we got DB or Travis Long at all.

Now Recruiting isn't everything, but for a program like ours we can't afford to sit at the very bottom of all FBS and expect to compete. You just can't, and football programs/players take years to mature on the investment of recruiting.

Another site (brand-y) was talking about how we only had o-line 6 scholarship players in 2012 and only 3 belonged that averaged 265 pounds... Not only was that absolutely insane... it was outright dangerous to both Tuel and Halliday.

Wulff who had no business being a BCS head coach had gigantic lapses in building the program and it set the program back even further than what Doba had done.

How I know we will be okay with Leach is he put immediate attention into the Oline. That's where it starts..we have some pretty good skill guys so the offense will be along further than the offense.

Now as to the defense getting young coaches like Manning and Grinch is what we should have done early, but I don't think Leach anticipated how depleted we were talent wise.

Take away Deone Buchanon and that defense goes from kinda poor to awful. Now I don't think Breske is as bad as some thing, but I think not having any real legit corner depth really at all hurt us and his lack of recruiting at the BCS level much like Wulff hurt the ability to fill the immediate need.

If we get some DB recruiting our defense can get serviceable and that is a big step.

But if people really want to see just how insane things got...Look at what happened without Furney and DB...that just shows how fragile we were as a team. The old motto of "next man up"... well we really didn't have very many at all to work with..those seniors leave and we basically didn't have anything. Yes we can start the freshmen but they are freshmen.

If you want big improvements you have to have stability and depth and we haven't had that anywhere for years, and Leach isn't going to make that happen overnight.

The O-line and D-Line are getting there and that's a BIG step forward because that's where it starts. I still have my reservations about special teams, but if we can build a solid the depth we are building on the lines out to the skill positions we'll be a tremendously improved program. .

 

[BiggsCoug]

Bigg I agree with you. It was bad with Wulff...incredibly bad.

Football programs like ours at WSU require consistent recruiting and time to mature.

Wulff was all about selling us on the maturity "doing it the right way blah blah blah" but his recruiting was beyond bad for multiple years. Yes people like Deone , and Travis Long were the diamonds in the rough, but for the most part.... It was nothing but rough.

How rough?
According to rivals
class of 2008 - #87... behind programs like eastern michigan, kent state, toledo, western michigan

Let that sink in...

2009? - #93 ....even worse...behind Northern Illinois...FAU....New Mexico etc...

2010? - #93 .... behind Miami (OH) Akron etc...

2011? - #73 still behind Wyoming and Toledo...

We are a Pac-12 BCS program that has been to the Rose Bowl (in the last decade from these years) and this is what we were recruiting at. It's a miracle we got DB or Travis Long at all.

Now Recruiting isn't everything, but for a program like ours we can't afford to sit at the very bottom of all FBS and expect to compete. You just can't, and football programs/players take years to mature on the investment of recruiting.

Another site (brand-y) was talking about how we only had o-line 6 scholarship players in 2012 and only 3 belonged that averaged 265 pounds... Not only was that absolutely insane... it was outright dangerous to both Tuel and Halliday.

Wulff who had no business being a BCS head coach had gigantic lapses in building the program and it set the program back even further than what Doba had done.

How I know we will be okay with Leach is he put immediate attention into the Oline. That's where it starts..we have some pretty good skill guys so the offense will be along further than the offense.

Now as to the defense getting young coaches like Manning and Grinch is what we should have done early, but I don't think Leach anticipated how depleted we were talent wise.

Take away Deone Buchanon and that defense goes from kinda poor to awful. Now I don't think Breske is as bad as some thing, but I think not having any real legit corner depth really at all hurt us and his lack of recruiting at the BCS level much like Wulff hurt the ability to fill the immediate need.

If we get some DB recruiting our defense can get serviceable and that is a big step.

But if people really want to see just how insane things got...Look at what happened without Furney and DB...that just shows how fragile we were as a team. The old motto of "next man up"... well we really didn't have very many at all to work with..those seniors leave and we basically didn't have anything. Yes we can start the freshmen but they are freshmen.

If you want big improvements you have to have stability and depth and we haven't had that anywhere for years, and Leach isn't going to make that happen overnight.

The O-line and D-Line are getting there and that's a BIG step forward because that's where it starts. I still have my reservations about special teams, but if we can build a solid the depth we are building on the lines out to the skill positions we'll be a tremendously improved program. .

It's amazing. Coach T was a BCS head coach, power 5 conference... Was he even on the practice field for the 9er's? If he wasn't, that makes the last 4 years for him only coaching on the field 1 season. 2 years with the 9er's making coffee, 1 year in Florida and has he found a job yet for this coming season??? Simply f*cking awful. That should tell you what the coaching industry thinks of his ability. Or lack of...

 

[froropmkr72]

Leach has taken a fair number of JC guys. Not KSU or ASU level, but quite a few. The JC guys have added depth to the OL. Seydel is the only one that has seen significant PT.

WSU lost out to KSU, Kansas and ASU for the best JC players at the time. Those guys went on to contribute a great deal to their teams winning. WSU also lost out on the top Olinemen from those years and had to settle for what they got. They spotted and then went after all the best.

 

[wulffui]

WSU lost out to KSU, Kansas and ASU for the best JC players at the time. Those guys went on to contribute a great deal to their teams winning.

Or they went to Kansas.

 

[YakiCoug]

If Leach saw 4 years ago what Biggs sees today, he could have brought in enough of YakiCoug's sure fire JC's to avoid struggle.

I'll give you the attention you desperately need, sponge. Again, even your big sis has lauded the contribution of Gauta and Sagote to the jump from 3-9 to 6-6. He's asked you to lay off the bottle for a bit. Take his advice.

 

[spongebob11]

I'll give you the attention you desperately need, sponge. Again, even your big sis has lauded the contribution of Gauta and Sagote to the jump from 3-9 to 6-6. He's asked you to lay off the bottle for a bit. Take his advice.

Another idiotic post from the stalker.

I have said many times in here I thought Gauta was a hell of a player.

Not every JC player is a Gauta, however so maybe you should take your own advice and lay off the sauce with your 8-4 prediction.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

I've mostly purged my Doba staff frustrations (though I will never be thoroughly forgiving of Phlugrad's role in our decline) and my Wulff irritation (Dr. Lawrence Peter, WSU alum, explained all you need to know about Paul Wulff as a HC with his famous explanation of the Peter Principle). Frankly, I'm tired of talking about them. Biggs point regarding a total of 10 4th & 5th year players is correct as far as it goes, and I'm going to leave it alone.

What I would rather discuss is the fact that CML is not a Peter Principle poster child. He knows how to run a program. That means that he knows how to recruit, and also understands how to recruit to position (just the number of O linemen recruits alone makes that pretty clear). He knows how to relate to kids…that may seem like an odd statement if you look at the number who have transferred, but the more important issue is the chemistry and work ethic with those remaining. I have to like what I see in that area. Every class is an improvement on the one before, which if your staff is building relationships over time, is exactly what you would expect to see. He knows how to strategize. And his halftime adjustments, while not the best in the PAC, are light years ahead of Wulff's. I happen to be comfortable with his "going for it on 4th down" logic, overall. As his O line improves he will be able to run in the red zone more, as he did at Tech. Finally, if his staff isn't performing, he holds them accountable. And that includes firing them.

I'm looking forward to this fall and a minor bowl.

 

[froropmkr72]

Or they went to Kansas.

If they had to do it all over again...those guys wouldn't of gone to Kansas.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

"I don't think we're in Kansas any more, Toto…"

Sorry, Fro. I couldn't resist….and the JC guys who went there were probably asking themselves why, as you suggest.

 

[chinookpirate]

It's amazing. Coach T was a BCS head coach, power 5 conference... Was he even on the practiceball field for the 9er's? If he wasn't, that makes the last 4 years for him only coaching on the field 1 season. 2 years with the 9er's making coffee, 1 year in Florida and has he found a job yet for this coming season??? Simply f*cking awful. That should tell you what the coaching industry thinks of his ability. Or lack of...

quite obviously, the coaching industry thinks a helluva lot more of Paul Wulff than you, right Biggs'???... and that's not conjecture, no, that is documented coaching-industry-verified, fact.

Paul Wulff made more money in one year 'serving coffee' than you've made... or will EVER make, in a lifetime out of football, right? Not to mention the success he enjoyed as a player vs. your futile attempt.

So, we can therefore safely assume that you share ALL of the same shortcomings as Wulff... as well as a few more.,

 

[BiggsCoug]

quite obviously, the coaching industry thinks a helluva lot more of Paul Wulff than you, right Biggs'???... and that's not conjecture, no, that is documented coaching-industry-verified, fact.

Paul Wulff made more money in one year 'serving coffee' than you've made... or will EVER make, in a lifetime out of football, right? Not to mention the success he enjoyed as a player vs. your futile attempt.

So, we can therefore safely assume that you share ALL of the same shortcomings as Wulff... as well as a few more.,

Cool post man!

 

[Flatlandcoug]

quite obviously, the coaching industry thinks a helluva lot more of Paul Wulff than you, right Biggs'???... and that's not conjecture, no, that is documented coaching-industry-verified, fact.

Paul Wulff made more money in one year 'serving coffee' than you've made... or will EVER make, in a lifetime out of football, right? Not to mention the success he enjoyed as a player vs. your futile attempt.

So, we can therefore safely assume that you share ALL of the same shortcomings as Wulff... as well as a few more.,

I feel bad for Wulff with the USF situation. Their offense showed significant improvement in his one year there but didn't make a bowl game so someone had to go and the head coach wasn't volunteering so he fired both coordinators. The first article you see about USF shows that the defense was giving up almost 600 yards per game. Ouch.

 

[Whitworth-Coug]

"Their offense showed significant improvement in his one year" - Flatlandcoug

Scoring Off
2013 : Ranked # 122 13.8ppg
2014 : Ranked # 119 17.2ppg

Total Off
2013 : Ranked # 123 256yds
2014 : Ranked # 121 304yds

*125 D1 Teams

 

[chinookpirate]

I believe that if any other coach (other than Wulff) would have followed Bill Doba, you would see Bill Doba's time as a head coach in an entirely different light. Wulff was that bad at everything. He would not be considered a great coach or anything, but his tenure as the head man would be just like any other mediocre/average coach at a school that ultimately loses his job (ex. Rick Nueheisel at UCLA).

That Wulff came in and was so utterly bad at everything made Doba look worst than he actually was. It is also making Leach look worse than he actually is in the beginning of his tenure as the head man.

Look at the basketball program. Paul Graham was in way over his head and the program was in shambles. The Bennett's are hired and the program is turned around. Yet, people are not continually up in arms about Graham. What if a coach like Bone had been hired to follow Graham. Everything would be in a different light to how we see them all.

Bill Moos knew the status of the program when he accepted a paid contract from WSU to lead a search committee to find a new head coach.

Any coach he 'recommended' be hired, purging the roster was going to be the first order of businesss.

 

[dgibbons]

"Their offense showed significant improvement in his one year" - Flatlandcoug

Scoring Off
2013 : Ranked # 122 13.8ppg
2014 : Ranked # 119 17.2ppg

Total Off
2013 : Ranked # 123 256yds
2014 : Ranked # 121 304yds

*125 D1 Teams

I'm sure that's Doba's fault.