Another one
- Thread starter kougkurt
- Start date
Would love to know who else offered but I like what he brings to the table. We need shooting and from the article SD linked he seems to have his head on straight.
Brand X lists Utah, Minnesota, Boston College, Georgia Tech, Davidson, and Utah St. Pretty good offer sheet.
Saw that later. I wasn’t sure whether they were offers since it said “interested” or something. Definitely a good list either way.
Additional speculation that because of the late deadline for withdrawing from the late NBA draft this year, teams may be granted a 14th scholarship for the coming season. If true, that could accommodate both CJ and AJ.
Glad Cougar
Glad Cougar
That scenario would be interesting. They don't have to decide until October now? Well into most years for schools. I think he would have to be enrolled early September. He could do that even if it's online. Could be a very full boat.
Yeah, Glad's explanation, about a 14th scholly, or Kunc, or someone else leaving.
CJ is PROBABLY returning.
Alnost every expert, including ESPN in almost every Mock NBA draft, like the official ESPN NBA mock draft, has Elleby at, on bubble, at #72, after the final 60th pick of the final 2nd round.
Elleby PROBABLY wont get drafted period. He probably wont get a guaranteed contract as either a undrafted free agent, or as a last pick of 2nd Round.
About the best Elleby could possibly hope for is a non guaranteed, conditional, limited, 2 way contract in the developmental G LEAGUE, that or overseas, for beans.
Elleby knows that. He has 2 more seasons to get draftable, which is possible.
There are more reasons for him to stay. If he stays, he can get his degree. He can get to the NCAA tourny. He can get drafted, get more money.
If he doesnt return, no tourny. No degree, No big money, just beans.
He knows that, or should know that.
So he will return or should return
If he doesnt return, I'll be extremely shocked.
I dont know how WSU has the room to get the guy, but it's PROBABLY NOT CJ's spot.
I wouldnt be suprised to see the guy either go elsewhere because no scholly to sign him, or Kunc, or somebody else leaves, or Smith convinces someone to leave to make room, or have him reclassify, greyshirt for a scholly next year, or guarantee him a scholly the next year after a preferred walk on offer, but no scholly this year.
CJ is PROBABLY returning.
Alnost every expert, including ESPN in almost every Mock NBA draft, like the official ESPN NBA mock draft, has Elleby at, on bubble, at #72, after the final 60th pick of the final 2nd round.
Elleby PROBABLY wont get drafted period. He probably wont get a guaranteed contract as either a undrafted free agent, or as a last pick of 2nd Round.
About the best Elleby could possibly hope for is a non guaranteed, conditional, limited, 2 way contract in the developmental G LEAGUE, that or overseas, for beans.
Elleby knows that. He has 2 more seasons to get draftable, which is possible.
There are more reasons for him to stay. If he stays, he can get his degree. He can get to the NCAA tourny. He can get drafted, get more money.
If he doesnt return, no tourny. No degree, No big money, just beans.
He knows that, or should know that.
So he will return or should return
If he doesnt return, I'll be extremely shocked.
I dont know how WSU has the room to get the guy, but it's PROBABLY NOT CJ's spot.
I wouldnt be suprised to see the guy either go elsewhere because no scholly to sign him, or Kunc, or somebody else leaves, or Smith convinces someone to leave to make room, or have him reclassify, greyshirt for a scholly next year, or guarantee him a scholly the next year after a preferred walk on offer, but no scholly this year.
I'm thinking AJ gets a scholarship no matter what. It will either be CJ's or the NCAA grants a 14th for teams with players who are deciding on the NBA draft (like CJ). There's a remote chance that some other player leaves, but it's getting real late for that possibility. I don't think very many players are going into the portal this late.
Glad Cougar
Glad Cougar
I told you all so. I said AJ was a top player. How did I know that? Because of what he did in Europe.
I had seen what the linked article said about the amazing things he was doing in Europe.
The only difference between then and now, is back then he didnt have the OFFERS.
But he had still done the amazing things he had done, was doing in Europe, according to the linked article.
Back then you all were saying he wasnt that good, that he was another Kunc, and why get another Kunc, etc.
And you all were saying that if he was so good, why wasnt he getting big offers, etc.
Well the reason why he wasnt getting the offers, back then, was because altho he was doing amazing things in Europe, he was UNKNOWN back then, DESPITE the amazing things he did in Europe.
Europe is still underecruited, misevaluated, etc. Not everybody does a great job recruiting internationally. And a lot of the top colleges, blue bloods, like duke, etc, dont feel like they have to recruit internationally to win.
Usually its the mid majors like Gonzaga, etc, that usually recruit internationally well, to keep up with the Duke's, etc.
Smith's staff has a lot of international connections, especially Aussie, New Zealand, Europe, etc.
And so that's why he was able to get in on AJ so early, BEFORE the offers rolled in.
And that's the only reason I knew AJ was good, was because of Smith, and because of that the news pieces, talking about the amazing things AJ was doing, had done in Europe, etc. Without those news pieces, because of Smith recruiting AJ, I wouldnt have known about the amazing things AJ had done, was doing, much like the rest of the country, everyone else.
I knew AJ was good, because of the amazing things, and knew it was just a matter of time until the offers started rolling in.
One thing to get from this is that OFFERS are not the BE ALL, everything.
The amazing things that AJ had done, was doing in U18 Europe, Italy, etc, was all that was needed to know to know that AJ was GOOD.
No OFFERS were needed to know that.
The offers that he has received since then is just backing up, confirming that he is GOOD.
One of the brandx writers twitter (so I won't link) says AJ may get evaluated as a 4-star. So definitely a scholarship guy if that's the case.
Whether AJ gets reevaluated as a 4 star or not, and even if he stays a 3 star, etc, AJ is without a doubt, factually, truthfully at least a equal, equivalent of a 4 star ON PAPER, according to the AMAZING THINGS he has done in U 18 Europe, Italy, and according to the BIG offers.
He, AJ will get a Scholly somehow for AJ, even if Smith has to sit down with someone like a Chatfield type, and say "I'm giving your scholly to AJ, you can either stay as a Walk On, or you can transfer somewhere else, and if you do leave, I'll help you"
I don't remember anyone saying he wasn't that good....I know I certainly was excited about AJ and thought he was definitely worth pursuing. Really happy that Smith landed AJ and Rosario to go along with a top notch recruiting class.
Glad Cougar
Chatfield is a non-scholarship player. I'm not sure who on the roster would be a Chatfield-type player. But I agree, AJ will be getting a scholarship, one way or the other.
Glad Cougar
I see brandx listed all the above schools as offers. I have been pretty excited about Jakimovski since the visit was announced back before the Klay game so even if they weren't offers that's ok by me. Still, beating out some solid programs is always a good thing. Remember a year ago an Asian SF picked Davidson over us.
Theo tweeted Jakimovski's closer to 6'8" 205. No guarantees of course but I wouldn't have predicted this kind of class in year 2. Cap off an already really good class with Rosario who is close to evaluated in the top 100 and Jakimovski who could be evaluated as a 4-star. That's new territory for this program.
Going to be a fun watch.
Dishon Jackson: 4 star
Rosario: 4 star
Jefferson: 4 star
Abogidi: 3.5 star
AJ: Will probably be reevaluated to a 4 star, 4 star equivalent
TJ Bamba: 3 Star.
1 combo, semi PG in Bamba
1, 2/3 combo, shooting, scoring guard.
2 Center/PF's
2, about 6' 7.5 in HYBRID 3's, that can play the 2/3/4 spots.
When is the last time WSU, any WSU coach, recruited 4, 4 stars, 4 star equivalents, 4 about top 100's, and about a top 50 class overall, in only their 2nd year?
Either probably have to go back 65 to 85+ years to Jack Friel, an or it's never happened before.
I think it's safe to say that this is probably the best recruiting class ON PAPER, that WSU has ever had.
And that Smith is probably the best recruiter since, and maybe even better then Raveling, and maybe even the best recruiter WSU has ever had ON PAPER, as far as rankings, ratings, stars, beating out top programs for 4 star recruits, etc.
I know Raveling's Guy Williams/Stuart House class was one of the best, if not the best up until that time, but Raveling wasnt a new, 2nd year coach at the time of that class either, like Smith.
Now I hope that this class reaches its ON PAPER RANKING, POTENTIAL, ETC, and Pan's out, and doeswhat it should be able to do.
That's likely with Smith being a awesome developer.
Also I hope this class gets to play, and that Covid doesnt stop this class the next 1,2 years.
Rosario: 4 star
Jefferson: 4 star
Abogidi: 3.5 star
AJ: Will probably be reevaluated to a 4 star, 4 star equivalent
TJ Bamba: 3 Star.
1 combo, semi PG in Bamba
1, 2/3 combo, shooting, scoring guard.
2 Center/PF's
2, about 6' 7.5 in HYBRID 3's, that can play the 2/3/4 spots.
When is the last time WSU, any WSU coach, recruited 4, 4 stars, 4 star equivalents, 4 about top 100's, and about a top 50 class overall, in only their 2nd year?
Either probably have to go back 65 to 85+ years to Jack Friel, an or it's never happened before.
I think it's safe to say that this is probably the best recruiting class ON PAPER, that WSU has ever had.
And that Smith is probably the best recruiter since, and maybe even better then Raveling, and maybe even the best recruiter WSU has ever had ON PAPER, as far as rankings, ratings, stars, beating out top programs for 4 star recruits, etc.
I know Raveling's Guy Williams/Stuart House class was one of the best, if not the best up until that time, but Raveling wasnt a new, 2nd year coach at the time of that class either, like Smith.
Now I hope that this class reaches its ON PAPER RANKING, POTENTIAL, ETC, and Pan's out, and doeswhat it should be able to do.
That's likely with Smith being a awesome developer.
Also I hope this class gets to play, and that Covid doesnt stop this class the next 1,2 years.
When I was watching his video, I thought he looked bigger than the listed 181lbs. He didn't look like a string bean.
This is reminding me of the big class that the Bennett's brought in that changed WSU basketball. This class, and last years class, can grow together and do some special things in the future, and possibly in the present.
Both yes and no about this class being comparable to Bennet's.
Yes in that yes this class is comparable to the Bennet Class in that its a class that probably change WSU basketball for the best, just like the Bennet class did.
No in that Low/Weaver/Cowgill/Harmeling/etc, at least in the beginning ON PAPER coming out of HS, was nowhere near as highly ranked, rated as this Smith's class is.
It was only until Bennet's class as reevaluated by the experts that it got bumped from 2 stars to 3 stars, and 1 3.5/borderline lowest ended 4 star(Low).
And except for Low, almost nobody else in the P5, Pac 12 world, etc, wanted Bennets guys.
Dick Bennet even said so himself, that his guys werent wanted by others, and that the only reason he recruited them is on the strength of his evaluations, and on him thinking he had found under the radar, diamond in the rough guys that he could develop after losing somewhere between some to almost a lot of games with them in the beginning.
He said that those guys fit his system, and that without his system, the guys were probably not good enough, athletic enough to run with UCLA like talent, etc.
ON PAPER that Bennet Class wasnt that good.
But despite that Bennet in HINDSIGHT made it the class way better then its on paper rating.
So that class ON PAPER is nowhere near as good ON PAPER, RATINGS, ATHLETICALLY wise, etc, as this Smith's class.
This Smith's class SHOULD be able to COMPARE to Arizona, UCLA, etc, type talent, athleticness, speed, quickness, etc.
I wasn't trying to compare the talent level. I was making a point that this was a large class that can grow together. I don't remember the exact words, but Dick Bennett it was good to bring in a big class. Then teach them and let them grow together. I am so excited about Cougar basketball right now.
Me to, and a lot of us.
Without CJ, this team wins 15,16,17, 18 wins, 5,6,7 wins in conference, CBI/CIT Final Four/Champ game/NIT, 1 stolen Pac 12 tourney win.
With CJ:
18,19,20,21 wins, 7,8,9,10+ wins in conference, NIT champ game, final four/NCAA 1st or 2nd round, 2,3,4 Pac 12 tourney wins.
Dishon, and Resario are both 4 stars.
Maybe not ALL recruiting services have these at 4 stars, but some do.
And when I talk about recruiting services, I am talking about Rivals, ESPN, 247, SCOUT, SBNATION, VERBAL COMMITS, ETC.
According to those sources, at least 1 of those sources for each of the following have found each of the following to be 4 stars.
Dishon: 4 stars by 247
Resario: 4 stars: At least 1 of the above named recruiting services has him as a 4 star
Jefferson: 4 stars: TIED FOR BEST, ARGUABLY ONE OF THE 2 BEST IN ALL OF CANADA. Some have him as best in Canada, some have him at #2, #3 in Canada. You dont get rated as Top Canadien player without being a 4 star. And at least 1 of the above mentioned recruiting services, have him as a 4 star.
Abogidi WAS, used to be a 4 star, until his 2 year out INJURY. Now he is a 3 star. Altho he isca 3 star by the recruiting services, the recruiting services have said he should be a 4 star, and would be a 4 star if not for the injury. So he is a 3.5 star, highest ended 3 star.
AJ is a 3 star, but that was before he got the big offers and before he BLEW UP U 18 EUROPE.
So the recruiting services have said that he will probably be reevaluated to a 4 star, and Brand X says he will be a 4 star.
So NOT just only 1 4 star like you said.
There is AT LEAST 2 CLEAR 4 stars, which is Dishon, Resario
And 1 4 star Jefferson.
That's 2,3, 4 stars in the class, not just one like you said.
And that number could climb 1 more if AJ gets put at 4 stars.
The only CLEAR cut 3 star is TJ Bamba, and 3.5 star Abogidi is unlikely to get put at 4 stars.
Basically WSU has 2,3, 4 stars, and 1 4 star equivalent, and 1 3.5 star, 1, 3 star.
So WSU has 4, 4 star equivalents an or 4 stars, and not just only 1 4 star like you said.
I think it's very telling about the Pac 12 in basketball recruiting wise, when WSU recruits its best class ever, with 2,3,4., 4 stars, and ranked 6th place out of 12 at best.
This backs up what I have said all along that WSU could recruit a class full of 4 stars, and rated somewhere between 25 to 35th to 50th at worst, and still finish somewhered between 5th to last place in the Pac 12 recruiting wise.
This should make it clear, that no matter how good WSU recruiting gets, it wont finish in the upper half lead in Pac 12 recruiting, as other Pac 12 programs will just recruit even better then the good WSU recruitment
This backs up what I have said all along that WSU could recruit a class full of 4 stars, and rated somewhere between 25 to 35th to 50th at worst, and still finish somewhered between 5th to last place in the Pac 12 recruiting wise.
This should make it clear, that no matter how good WSU recruiting gets, it wont finish in the upper half lead in Pac 12 recruiting, as other Pac 12 programs will just recruit even better then the good WSU recruitment
The class size definitely makes me think back to the year 2 class under Dick. I like the kind of players they are bringing in as well beyond even the overall "talent" however it's measured. They all seem to play hard, want to improve their game, and have a good feel and IQ. I would think that would help the staff manage and develop all the young players.
Really like the potential of this class growing together and become a big part of the foundation for the program.
I'm quite pleased with this group and think we added a nice piece to what was already the best class in school history. We needed to get better offensively and we've added some legit threats from outside. TJ Bamba, Rosario, and AJ can all shoot the rock from deep. If CJ comes back, we should be able to put someone in the floor who can knock down the open 3 when he drives to the hole.
The allocation of minutes should be interesting. We have a lot of interesting pieces but will be limited if the kids don't step up. Need a couple of scorers to emerge. They also need to find the right mix of offense and defense.
The allocation of minutes should be interesting. We have a lot of interesting pieces but will be limited if the kids don't step up. Need a couple of scorers to emerge. They also need to find the right mix of offense and defense.
I like that the staff is having some success on the recruiting trail. We want the staff to have success and not feel like they are beating their heads against a wall. Now they know if they put in the hard work, they can win recruiting battles against other P5 schools. Then, success breeds more success.
And this dispels the myths that WSU can't recruit, and that because of that WSU is supposedly a stepping stone, instead of a destination for good coaches that supposedly wouldnt win at WSU, and that WSU would supposedly be the career deaths of good coaches.
Friel, Harshman, Raveling, Sampson, Bennet, and now Smith has proven that wrong.
Basketball is a different beast then football.It can be difficult for mid major, low lev P5's like WSU to CONSISTENTLY win, recruit good at WSU, year after year, in FOOTBALL, altho Leach proved that it could be done.
But Basketball is easier, different then football. In basketball you only have a basketball roster of 14, compared to 85 to 100 for football, and recruit 3 to 8 in a class instead of 25 in a football class.
Because of that, it doesnt take as much, because there is a large pool of 2.5 star, 3 star, 4 star, etc, Bball player recruits, relative to the small number of recruits each school needs. That makes it easier to get good recruits.
One only has to look at UTEP(Glory Road), Wichita St, Kansas, Kentucky.
There is a reason why Kansas, Kentucky, usually SUCK at football, and are awesome at basketball, despite having some of the same locational and other issue struggles kind of like WSU.
Yeah Kansas, Kentucky are good now. But in the 50's, 60's, 70's, they werent that good, as good, an or not that good at all.
It took Rupp the coach at Kentucky, and the coach at Kansas, to turn Kentucky and Kansas around, and build them into the perenial powerhouses they have been for decades.
Same with Arizona. What was Arizona before Lute Olson? Nothing.
Same with Gonzaga. What was Gonzaga before Don Monson, and Mark Few? NOTHING.
If it can happen at those places in basketball, it can happen at WSU in basketball. That's not true for football.
All it would take is Smith winning 17 to 21 games, CBI/CIT/NCAA, etc, with or without CJ.
Having almost as good, as good or just barely better, etc, recruiting class as this class.
Winning 19, 20, 21,22,23 games the next year. Continuing to recruit well, or just barely even better.
Then 21,22,23,24,25 the next year.
Then 23,24,25,26,27 the next year.
Then a quick half rebuild/half reload year. 17 to 20 wins.
Then 4 more years of 19 to 24 wins.
Then a rebuild, 16 to 18 win year.
Then 4 more years of 18 to 23 win years
Then a rebuild/reload year of 18 to 23 wins.
Then 4 years of 24 to 28 wins a year.
Then Smith retiring, building the Smith cougar basketball statue, and building the Smith gym to replace Beasley gym.
Then WSU hires a coach K type. Has 5 to 10 more years of 25 to 29 wins a year basketball. And WSU is then a BLUE CHIP, BLUE BLOOD basketball program, like a UCLA, Arizona, Kansas. kentucky, North Carolina, etc, where the basketball program pays for the football program, where a rich donor like a Phil Knight eventually gets involved in the WSU bball program because of its success.
Now I am not saying Smith would do, grow that, but only that a good coach like a Smith, Mark Few, etc, can, could build that kind of WSU program.
The first step was his pretty good 1st class, good 1st season.
2nd step, was this class.
3rd step would be a good, great, awesome season.
4th step would be another awesome class like this one.
5th step would be a awesome season.
6th step would be to continue the momentum, and watch things snowball in the right good direction.
Brand XYZ, reported in a article, that AJ turned down a PRO contract, to play at WSU.
And AJ said that there were, was other even higher ranked colleges, in addition to those OFFICIAL offers, that UNofficially offered him(Probably on the basis that if he rejected their offers, and chose WSU instead, that they would Deny offering him(After all a Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, North Carolina, etc, type, wouldnt want to admit that they got beat out by WSU)
And they said its extremely likely that CJ returns, and 5hat a insider source at WSU supposedly informed them that supposedly WSU is kind of expecting CJ to probably return, and that WSU is not expecting anybody else to leave, and that a insider source at WSU, and either within, around, connected, etc, to the bball program, coaching staff, said that WSU is anticipating, expecting to get a 14th scholly, in light of Covid, and later NBA draft withdrawl deadline.
Brand XYZ article said that AJ, is, would be, should be, etc, a 4 star, according to their expert sources.
I found a link to that Brand XYZ article on my Google Chrome, Google homepage.
Based on AJ TURNING DOWN a PRO European CONTRACT that would probably have led to a NBA G league contract, and him being drafted at either bottom of 1st round to Top of 2nd in NBA Draft someday, eventually.
AND
ESPN's EUROPE EXPERT GIVONY, saying that AJ is one of the top players, if not the top player in Europe, is a 6 tool player that can play all positions except Center, and is a 4 star, or should be a 4 star.
Then based on that, forget about 4 star, AJ should be a 4,5, 4.5 star, based on that.
Based on that, WSU has the following what should be PRO/NBA prospect(G League, Draft, Signed Undrafted Free Agent, Overseas Pro, etc)
1. 4 star Rosario
2. 4 star Dishon Jackson
3. 4 star Jefferson Koulibay
4. 4 star AJ(Will be reevaluated by recruiting services like ESPN, Rivals, 247, etc, to a 4 star, or failung that, is a 4 star equivalent equal to a 4 star, qnd as such is a 4 star at least UNOFFICIALLY a 4 star.)(And since he rejected, turned down a PRO CONTRACT, that its likely that he will have the chance to sign a PRO CONTRACT and be a PRO again.
5. Agobidi. Was scheduled to be eventually fastracked into, to go from NBA academy to NBA G league to NBA draft, as a 4 star, until he got injured for 2 years, at which point he became a 3 star.
5, PRO/NBA(NBA, G league, Draft, Signed Undrafted Free Agent, Overseas, etc) Prospects, in 1 Class.
Now I am not saying all 5 will be PROS.
A PROSPECT means they have the UPSIDE, POTENTIAL, but are NOT guaranteed.
Many prospects do Not become PROS, and some do become PROS.
BEST CLASS ON PAPER EVER IN ENTIRE WSU HISTORY EVER, ON PAPER.
4
And AJ said that there were, was other even higher ranked colleges, in addition to those OFFICIAL offers, that UNofficially offered him(Probably on the basis that if he rejected their offers, and chose WSU instead, that they would Deny offering him(After all a Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, North Carolina, etc, type, wouldnt want to admit that they got beat out by WSU)
And they said its extremely likely that CJ returns, and 5hat a insider source at WSU supposedly informed them that supposedly WSU is kind of expecting CJ to probably return, and that WSU is not expecting anybody else to leave, and that a insider source at WSU, and either within, around, connected, etc, to the bball program, coaching staff, said that WSU is anticipating, expecting to get a 14th scholly, in light of Covid, and later NBA draft withdrawl deadline.
Brand XYZ article said that AJ, is, would be, should be, etc, a 4 star, according to their expert sources.
I found a link to that Brand XYZ article on my Google Chrome, Google homepage.
Based on AJ TURNING DOWN a PRO European CONTRACT that would probably have led to a NBA G league contract, and him being drafted at either bottom of 1st round to Top of 2nd in NBA Draft someday, eventually.
AND
ESPN's EUROPE EXPERT GIVONY, saying that AJ is one of the top players, if not the top player in Europe, is a 6 tool player that can play all positions except Center, and is a 4 star, or should be a 4 star.
Then based on that, forget about 4 star, AJ should be a 4,5, 4.5 star, based on that.
Based on that, WSU has the following what should be PRO/NBA prospect(G League, Draft, Signed Undrafted Free Agent, Overseas Pro, etc)
1. 4 star Rosario
2. 4 star Dishon Jackson
3. 4 star Jefferson Koulibay
4. 4 star AJ(Will be reevaluated by recruiting services like ESPN, Rivals, 247, etc, to a 4 star, or failung that, is a 4 star equivalent equal to a 4 star, qnd as such is a 4 star at least UNOFFICIALLY a 4 star.)(And since he rejected, turned down a PRO CONTRACT, that its likely that he will have the chance to sign a PRO CONTRACT and be a PRO again.
5. Agobidi. Was scheduled to be eventually fastracked into, to go from NBA academy to NBA G league to NBA draft, as a 4 star, until he got injured for 2 years, at which point he became a 3 star.
5, PRO/NBA(NBA, G league, Draft, Signed Undrafted Free Agent, Overseas, etc) Prospects, in 1 Class.
Now I am not saying all 5 will be PROS.
A PROSPECT means they have the UPSIDE, POTENTIAL, but are NOT guaranteed.
Many prospects do Not become PROS, and some do become PROS.
BEST CLASS ON PAPER EVER IN ENTIRE WSU HISTORY EVER, ON PAPER.
4
WSU already has a Smith Gym.
Title IX makes it awkward to build a men's gym with the same name and higher quality.
Are you suggesting Helen G. Smith gets cancelled?
3, 7, or 11% chance of that.
Similar threads
