The walk out of Martin was absolutely depressing for this one. Outside of our defense completely taking a siesta for this game, the refs did us ZERO favors. The phantom PI was an absolute game changer and helped the Fuskies maintain momentum. There was a very crucial non-call later in the game that not many saw especially if you were watching from home. We were stalled basically at around our own 40 and it was 3rd and a mile. Ward scrambled and broke free running to his right. Just as he was doing that, Stribling was about 35 yards down field and broke off his route then redirected in the same direction. As soon as he made his cut towards WIDE OPEN space, he was held HARD and the refs just ignored it. Had he not been held, Ward would've connected with him as he was looking that direction. Tired of these busted ass refs help determine the outcome of our games in favor of our opponents. I wish our coaches and Admin had BALLS to stand up to these injustices.
Another Ref "Job"
- Thread starter CougInSpain
- Start date
Mike Leach got no help from the posers in the WSU administration when he confronted the Pac 12 directly on this issue. I don’t expect them to do anything that is not in their own self interest.
I'd love for someone to make a video collection of BS calls by the refs against ranked opponents that changed the outcome of the game. I know vs USC, Oregon, and UW there were at least one call that changed the entire momentum of the game at a crucial time.
Drives me nuts and I wish Chun had the testicular fortitude to at least bring it up.
Drives me nuts and I wish Chun had the testicular fortitude to at least bring it up.
I actually thought the officiating was fairly decent up to that point. There was even a couple of hand combat plays down the field that they correctly let play out and didn’t flag. Felt like by and large the crew was letting them play and it was a fun game because of it and the refs were staying out of the way.
Then one dipshit has to F it up by flagging what is probably the best coverage possible on a play like that. Completely changed the trajectory of the game at that point. We still probably don’t win but may have come down to a final drive at least. Sigh.
I also saw when a play was downfield that a blatant penalty was not called. A receiver was running a drag route and was basically tackled by defender (probably a LB) without a call. I mean, the WR or TE was actually taken to the ground right in front of the umpire who watched with his thumb up his ass. Probably not even seen or noted on TV since it was away from the action. Probably early 4th quarter action since we were heading west.
Enough.
The huskies were penalized 10 times for 104 yards.
We were penalized 4 times for 40 yards.
We had an INT and fumble recovery. They had neither.
The Cougs were given multiple chances to do positive things on the field and neglected to do so.
99 times out of 100 the huskies win that contest. Our defense had proven to be stout in the red zone: the huskies negated that by scoring from outside of the red zone, multiple times.
The huskies were penalized 10 times for 104 yards.
We were penalized 4 times for 40 yards.
We had an INT and fumble recovery. They had neither.
The Cougs were given multiple chances to do positive things on the field and neglected to do so.
99 times out of 100 the huskies win that contest. Our defense had proven to be stout in the red zone: the huskies negated that by scoring from outside of the red zone, multiple times.
Just because they were penalized a lot does not mean that they didn't deserve more. Were there any penalties called on the mutts that should not have been called?
That said, yes we did waste some opportunities to win the game.
Maybe, maybe not.
But the title of the thread is "another ref job". The Cougs scored 6 pts in the second half, and the defense was wholly ineffective. So, we score 1 more TD and get 40 pts - the Huskies still score their 45 or whatever it was.
To be fair, I'm surprised we didn't get called for targeting when one of our players came in towards the end of the play and made very clear helmet to helmet contact, leaning forward. We've seen those called several times in the past, and it wasn't even reviewed.
In watching the dawg duckers for decades, they have ALWAYS been some of the most "grabby" defenders in the country. They grab and grab and don't back off even if the officials make 2 or 3 calls.
The worst was when Sark was coaching.
I have more respect for 3 farthings and a lump of shit than I do for their defensive backs and what they get away with.
yeah yeah, and the their OL holds like crazy too.
Same story, different year, same result.
When you have teams that are "close" to equal... the officiating can change the W/L.
No f*cking question WSU gets jobbed over and over again. There's evidence to prove it.
Is it going to change? Probably not, but it doesn't mean that calling it out is the wrong move.
Everybody in this thread is right. We lost the game because we did not play as well as UW. Our depleted O line could not give Ward the same amount of time that UW's line gave Penix. You can gripe about how long it takes Ward to find receivers and get rid of the ball all you want, but if Ward had the amount of time that Penix had, it would have been a different game (Heck, it would have been a different season). Yes, bad calls significantly alter a game. We were down 2 and about to get a punt and good field position when the ref invented the phantom PI call. That was a definite momentum turner, and who knows what might have happened if we had not taken that hit. But we did not lose the game on flags. We lost it in Ward averaging about 2 seconds without pressure, vs. Penix probably having more like 4-5 seconds. That was the game, more than any other single factor.
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They aren't close to equal. UW is much better. Their record vs our is all you need to see to prove that.
I just want to make it clear that I didn't indicate that we lost the game because of poor officiating. Just highlighting the continued misfortunes we have when it comes to officiating. I agree that we would've probably still lost the game even if that PI wasn't called. Or even if we had calls that should've been made as well.
The uw is a better team, no doubt. However, your argument is a bit misleading due to the luck of the draw. If we played CO and the mutts played UT this year, perhaps, maybe even probably, we both would have had 8 wins going in. Gotta play the hand you are dealt, but just looking at records without examination can be problematic.
Yes, of course. But I think we were all fooled pre-game into thinking we were close to equal to UW. We're not. I suspect they would have gotten a win over Utah as well.
I'd love to see them play USC right now, as both teams seem to be firing on all cylinders.
I think Rising was out for a while, so when they played may have been the primary factor. But we will never know. Of course WSU suffered a great deal from injuries this year, possibly/likely costing us wins.
Coug90 nailed it, in my view. That phantom PI was truly disgusting and that late no-call referenced in the OP sucked.
I was struck for most of the game prior to that how good, and even WSU=favorable, the officiating was.
I was struck for most of the game prior to that how good, and even WSU=favorable, the officiating was.
Way I think about it is, it's not personal, but we are always the underdog vs ranked teams, and IMO referees lean toward the favorite on bang-bang calls. Oregon has been particularly bad over the years, but I also remember getting jobbed vs Stanford really egregiously when they were good.
I don't think refs are shaving points or being malicious, but I do think there is a 'favorite' bias in cases of ambiguity, and even more than that, a 'contextual' bias wherein (eg) a team that is starting to roll starts getting victimized by bad calls that have the effect of slowing them down. In the latter case, there is a sense that "even if I blow the whistle it's probably not gonna hurt them that badly" and also a "I could be wrong here but no/less harm in erring on the side of the team getting rolled right now." Not malice, just human imperfection.
WSU did enough to lose this game by themselves. But yes, we see this shit across the PAC. The team that is supposed to win gets the calls. SC always gets the calls, always in Pullman and Corvallis. Yesterday, I. The OSU/duck game. The refs shorted the Beavs on a 4th down placement that was easily a 1st down. Even the announcers were commenting on the poor placement. But it was a really unfair turn over on downs. Thank goodness the Beavs somehow prevailed though. You get my drift. It’s how the PAC-12 operates. I guess when sc leaves it’ll fall to OR, UW and UT to always get the calls. It just seems so blatant.
I have no idea what angles made it to the telecast, but there were several times that the replay on the big screen in the stadium revealed UW defenders with hands in our facemasks (which were not called), and holding was rampant in the backfield and on downfield receivers.
The tv coverage was horrible and incredibly zoomed in. Half the times you couldn't even see the WRs running their routes.
I'd still love to see some all-22s from this season and see if CW deserves all the ish we've thrown his way for not finding open targets.
A bit orthogonal, but the C__ing it thing also is intuitive. Let's see ... a program usually at a talent / size disadvantage with depth issues ... who could imagine that team getting ahead sometimes and then coughing up games late? Not that hard to imagine opponents looking ahead or otherwise not taking the Cougs as seriously as they should, and/or the Cougs having schemed and prepped well, or just playing well, only to see the more talented opponent wake up and pull the game out late, especially when there almost always are holes to attack even with some talent on the roster.
That head official was a new guy, yeah? I hadn't seen him before.
It looked like we got away with some targeting too, right before that phantom PI call (probably a makeup call).
It looked like we got away with some targeting too, right before that phantom PI call (probably a makeup call).
Having seen all of the home games live, I'll say yes, he does. He does not see the field well, and regularly misses wide open receivers while throwing to guys that are covered, or who have zero chance for RAC yards. You need to get into the Wulff years to find the last QB who had comparable field awareness...and I'm counting Gordon, who didn't use the left side of the field.
There was one play on us that I thought would be reviewed for targeting, and there were a couple that could have been PI.
There were at least 2 on UW that looked like conscious attempts at targeting, and a couple that looked like PI but weren't called.
The phantom PI was the most mystifying call of the night though.
If you see my other thread, Gordo had nearly 5600 yards throwing to one side of the field. Its possible, not sure what the disconnect is with CW, but he'll never figure it out with under 1 second to make reads most plays.
There was one time around midfield +/_ where the Coug was in the process of being tackled and the mutt came flying in (launched, per rule) and hit the Coug, clearly leading with the helmet. Now I think it was clearly questionable if there was helmet to helmet contact, but that was clearly a play that begs for video review and there was none. Complete failure of the process, even though I think there was not an actual penalty. I just want to see them do things right.
I know I can seem like just a Cougar homer on this right now, but I find the issue come up time after time while watching other PAC games, even the time I don't care who wins. I see more egregious mistakes by PAC crews than any other conference.
While I can agree with you about Ward missing open receivers, I also give blame to the receivers. Have seen all home games, plus OSU and AZ this year, and have noticed that they do not get open as well as other top receivers. In particular, their scramble drill skills are lacking. I noted previously how on a scramble at OSU every WSU receiver was standing at the time Ward was forced to throw the ball away. Not good!
That's something that drives me nuts. All season, I've seen our receivers go to a spot and stand there. They should have learned in peewee ball that a receiver who doesn't move is really easy to cover.
Lesson they learned right after that one should have been that when the QB is under pressure, you break off the route and come back. They don't (Farrell actually does...sometimes).
These things should be instinct to a college WR. The fact that they aren't tells me that they're being coached otherwise.
What's even more remarkable about that bad spot in the UO/OSU game was that Coach Smith challenged the spot. The replay clearly showed that the runner's knee was down on the 5 yard line but he was leaning way forward with the ball so that it was well beyond the first down line to gain. The original spot was where the knee went down, not where the ball was at the time the knee went down. Despite the video evidence, the original call stood and the Beavers did not get the first down.
By the way, I have never seen such bad spotting by refs as I've seen this year in the Pac-12. They are horrible at getting the spot correct.
Glad Cougar
Oh, I know. I will probably still be able to picture that one 8 years from now like I can picture that BS non-PI call against Oregon, the targeting call that wasn't against Porter Gustin, and other crap.
Human imperfection and, in some cases, ineptness can be factors for sure. Refs at any level have a thankless job. Any call they make is likely to piss off one side or the other.
But PAC-12 refs are also under pressure from the conference to protect the records of their ranked teams, in order to maximize PAC-12 conference revenue from post season play.
There is so much room for judgement within the context of the rules (e.g. holding, PI, etc.) that it’s easy for pressure-induced bias to influence calls or non-calls.
It is frustrating as hell to be the recipient of momentum changing or game changing questionable calls or non-calls. But as long as school admins silently go along to get along, it’s not likely to change. It seems that the only remedy is to become the protected ranked team more often.
I watch all Pac-12 games and it’s pretty easy to see. The team with the biggest “brand” or the heavy favorite, highly ranked team gets all the breaks & not just at home, but on the road too. It’s not a completely even playing field at all.
Which is why officials should not be paid by the conferences. I’ve said this before but the way to improve officiating quality is to make them full time gigs with year round training, be nationally or at least regionally funded by all schools (DI, DII, DIII, NAIA, et al) and paid through the association that contracts with the conferences. Let the association choose which officials go to which games, and let them manage and own their own quality.
