https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/?Conference=Pac-12
Not that you needed the reminder.
Whittingham looks pretty good too.
Not that you needed the reminder.
Whittingham looks pretty good too.
Another reminder of how good of a coach Leach is...
- Thread starter How_did_this_happen?
- Start date
You dont recruit 9,10,11,12 4 stars, 1,2,3 Patrick Utchinski like upgraded from 2, 3 star to 4 star, 15, 16 RR 5.7's, like Leach has
At a level never seen before except the Mike Price exception where Price as a exception recruited 4,5 stars when he Price wasnt NORMALLY recruiting NR's, 2,3 stars, only getting 1 bowl game per out of every 2,3,4 bad years,
You dont do THAT AWESOME like Leach has done, by ONLY BEING A AWESOME EVALUATOR
Price, Walden, Erickson, etc, were ONLY GOOD EVALUATORS, MOST OF THE TIME, NORMALLY, except for extremely rare exceptions.
Not saying Leach is better then Pac 12 at recruiting.
But Leach is better, one of best, if not the best recruiter, star, rankings wise is WSU history
Leach is a great evaluator of Talent, but Leach is also good at recruiting High End 3 stars, Low End 4 stars, RR 5.6's, RR 5.7's, RR 5.8's.
So Leach is not only just a good evaluator
Leach is a good evaluator and a good recruiter
At a level never seen before except the Mike Price exception where Price as a exception recruited 4,5 stars when he Price wasnt NORMALLY recruiting NR's, 2,3 stars, only getting 1 bowl game per out of every 2,3,4 bad years,
You dont do THAT AWESOME like Leach has done, by ONLY BEING A AWESOME EVALUATOR
Price, Walden, Erickson, etc, were ONLY GOOD EVALUATORS, MOST OF THE TIME, NORMALLY, except for extremely rare exceptions.
Not saying Leach is better then Pac 12 at recruiting.
But Leach is better, one of best, if not the best recruiter, star, rankings wise is WSU history
Leach is a great evaluator of Talent, but Leach is also good at recruiting High End 3 stars, Low End 4 stars, RR 5.6's, RR 5.7's, RR 5.8's.
So Leach is not only just a good evaluator
Leach is a good evaluator and a good recruiter
I think you are conflating "recruiting" with "talent evaluation." I believe most, if not every, recruiting services' rating system, has rated Leach's recruiting as bottom tier, within the conference, every year at WSU, except 2018, which was middle tier rated by most. What is the difference between "recruiting" and "talent evaluation?" I'm being a bit over simplistic here, but "recruiting" is signing players that most, if not all, of your competition would sign if given the opportunity. That is what the recruiting services measure primarily, "player interest." That is why a 3 star kid suddenly becomes 4 star when the UW/USC shows interest. They didn't become more talented overnight. In the Pac-12, USC is the undesputed champ in this regard.
While there is element of "talent evaluation" in all recruiting, it is. primarily, indentifying players who can play well at your level and within your system, regardless of competitions' "interest." Mike Leach has proven to be a very good in this regard. That said, he is probably a better coach. I think he may be the best pure coach in the business. I say that because he got us to 10 wins with a "smoke and mirrors" defense, with a DL that probably wouldn't play on other Pac-12 teams at DL. That is high end coaching, by definition. Had Mike Price coached this team, we would probably have been 4-8. He would not have been able to cope with the flaws on defense. Moreover, on the talent evaluation front, there is no way in hell Price would have identified Minshew.
Your point of Leach was not a great recruiter in addition to being a good evaluator because of LOW recruiting class ranking is FLAWED.
WSU, Leach is recruiting high end 3 stars, Low end 4 stars, RR 5.7's, type of players at a higher, better, level EXTREMELY RARELY ALMOST NEVER SEEN BEFORE AT WSU.
That does not happen by being ONLY a good evaluator.
As example, exercise
Say there is the following Recruiting Class:
3,4,5,6 Low End 4 stars
3 to 6, RR 5.7's
3 to 6 RR 5.6 high end 3 stars
2,3,4 Patrick Utchinski like upgraded from 2,3 stars to 4 stars
1,2 high end 2 stars, low end 3 stars
1 NR
1 Transfer
1 Juco
Now what would you rank that class? 26th to 33rd? 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th in Pac 12?
That looks like a good, great class right?
That is, would be a good, great class.
Now let say its WSU, Leach that recruited that example class
That example class would be ranked 40th at best, and 9th, 10th out of Pac 12 at best
And based on the recruit class ranking of the example recruiting class you, others would say Leach only a good evaluator, etc.
Doba had a class that had 2, 4 stars accord to rivals, that had Less 4 stars, then the 2,3, 4 stars that Leach has so far in current class. That Doba Class that was lesser, had less 4 stars then Leach, was ranked higher(about 26th to 37th, about 5th,6th in Pac 10
See the thing is the reason why Leach's recruiting Class is not ranked good, and not ranked 26th to 33rd, not ranked 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, like it should be, instead of the 40th+, 9th, 10th in Pac 12 is:
A. A NR in Rivals, even 1 NR lowers the recruit class ranking greatly. Leach, WSU has a NR
B. Even tho Leach, WSU has recruited MORE high end 3 stars, RR 5.7's, upgraded to 4 stars, RR 5.8's, Low End 4 stars, etc:
The rest of the nation, and the Pac 12 has found a way to recruit EVEN MORE HIGH END 3 STARS, RR 5.7'S, UPGRADED TO 4 STARS, RR 5.8'S, LOW END 4 STARS, ETC, then THE LOTS Leach, WSU has recruited.
By
1. Getting, Flipping more 4 stars, high end 3 stars from the Kentucky's, Duke's, WSU's, Mid Major's, Mountain West, etc
2. As Biggs has said there are plenty of 4 stars that get overlooked, go unevaluated, etc, that fall to the Kentucky's, Dukes, WSU's, etc.
In the past the WSU's would not find, recruit those players, and in past the top programs were ok with not recruiting getting those players.
But when the WSU's started getting those recruits, started beating them, the top programs started getting more of those recruits.
This is why despite WSU, Leach recruiting a BETTER class Star rankings wise with more 4 stars, then Doba's higher ranked class with less 4 stars, why Leach's WSU recruiting class lower ranked then Doba's, even tho had more high end 3 stars, more 4 stars then Doba's higher ranked class.
That is why you can't, dont, shouldnt go by recruiting class rankings in determining whether a coach is only a good evaluator.
No matter how low what Leach's recruiting class rankings are, is, Leach is not only a good evaluator, and is more then a good evaluator and IS A GREAT RECRUITER, NUMBER OF 4 STARS, 3 STARS, ETC, STAR RANKING WISE, BEATING OUT GOOD, SEMI TOP PROGRAMS FOR 3,4 STAR RECRUITS WISE, AS LONG AS LEACH, WSU CONTINUES TO SUCCESSFULLY RECRUIT MORE 4 STARS LIKE HAS IN PAST.
BECAUSE OF ALL THE LOW END 4 STARS, HIGH END 3 STARS, RR 5.7's, that Leach recruits, has recruited, and probably will continue to successfully recruit.
WSU, Leach is recruiting high end 3 stars, Low end 4 stars, RR 5.7's, type of players at a higher, better, level EXTREMELY RARELY ALMOST NEVER SEEN BEFORE AT WSU.
That does not happen by being ONLY a good evaluator.
As example, exercise
Say there is the following Recruiting Class:
3,4,5,6 Low End 4 stars
3 to 6, RR 5.7's
3 to 6 RR 5.6 high end 3 stars
2,3,4 Patrick Utchinski like upgraded from 2,3 stars to 4 stars
1,2 high end 2 stars, low end 3 stars
1 NR
1 Transfer
1 Juco
Now what would you rank that class? 26th to 33rd? 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th in Pac 12?
That looks like a good, great class right?
That is, would be a good, great class.
Now let say its WSU, Leach that recruited that example class
That example class would be ranked 40th at best, and 9th, 10th out of Pac 12 at best
And based on the recruit class ranking of the example recruiting class you, others would say Leach only a good evaluator, etc.
Doba had a class that had 2, 4 stars accord to rivals, that had Less 4 stars, then the 2,3, 4 stars that Leach has so far in current class. That Doba Class that was lesser, had less 4 stars then Leach, was ranked higher(about 26th to 37th, about 5th,6th in Pac 10
See the thing is the reason why Leach's recruiting Class is not ranked good, and not ranked 26th to 33rd, not ranked 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, like it should be, instead of the 40th+, 9th, 10th in Pac 12 is:
A. A NR in Rivals, even 1 NR lowers the recruit class ranking greatly. Leach, WSU has a NR
B. Even tho Leach, WSU has recruited MORE high end 3 stars, RR 5.7's, upgraded to 4 stars, RR 5.8's, Low End 4 stars, etc:
The rest of the nation, and the Pac 12 has found a way to recruit EVEN MORE HIGH END 3 STARS, RR 5.7'S, UPGRADED TO 4 STARS, RR 5.8'S, LOW END 4 STARS, ETC, then THE LOTS Leach, WSU has recruited.
By
1. Getting, Flipping more 4 stars, high end 3 stars from the Kentucky's, Duke's, WSU's, Mid Major's, Mountain West, etc
2. As Biggs has said there are plenty of 4 stars that get overlooked, go unevaluated, etc, that fall to the Kentucky's, Dukes, WSU's, etc.
In the past the WSU's would not find, recruit those players, and in past the top programs were ok with not recruiting getting those players.
But when the WSU's started getting those recruits, started beating them, the top programs started getting more of those recruits.
This is why despite WSU, Leach recruiting a BETTER class Star rankings wise with more 4 stars, then Doba's higher ranked class with less 4 stars, why Leach's WSU recruiting class lower ranked then Doba's, even tho had more high end 3 stars, more 4 stars then Doba's higher ranked class.
That is why you can't, dont, shouldnt go by recruiting class rankings in determining whether a coach is only a good evaluator.
No matter how low what Leach's recruiting class rankings are, is, Leach is not only a good evaluator, and is more then a good evaluator and IS A GREAT RECRUITER, NUMBER OF 4 STARS, 3 STARS, ETC, STAR RANKING WISE, BEATING OUT GOOD, SEMI TOP PROGRAMS FOR 3,4 STAR RECRUITS WISE, AS LONG AS LEACH, WSU CONTINUES TO SUCCESSFULLY RECRUIT MORE 4 STARS LIKE HAS IN PAST.
BECAUSE OF ALL THE LOW END 4 STARS, HIGH END 3 STARS, RR 5.7's, that Leach recruits, has recruited, and probably will continue to successfully recruit.
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Yet despite that, WSU, Leach continues to beat out those, and other good, semi good programs for MORE RR 5.6 high end 3 stars, and RR 5.7's, and RR 5.8's, low end 4 stars.
But Hey, Leach is ONLY JUST a good evaluator
Not.
