Anybody else a little concerned about....

[Glad Cougar]

....how much of the talk in spring practice has been about the walkon receivers? Mitchell Quinn, Lincoln Victor, Drake Owen have all been specifically mentioned by Rolo as standing out right now among the receiver corps. I have nothing against walkons, and if they beat out scholarship players....good for them. But I would like to see some of these guys who got scholarships and were apparently highly coveted by this staff and the preceding staff show enough progress to beat out these walkons. Donavan Ollie, Billy Pospisil, Jay Wilkerson, Brandon Gray, etc....all came in with relatively high expectations....at least higher than the walkons. Yet they don't seem to be mentioned by Rolo when he's talking about his WR core. Ollie seems to be on the depth chart, at least. If this team has to rely that much on walkons to build its roster depth, that troubles me a bit. I guess we'll see how it all turns out.

Glad Cougar

 

[etowncoug]

....how much of the talk in spring practice has been about the walkon receivers? Mitchell Quinn, Lincoln Victor, Drake Owen have all been specifically mentioned by Rolo as standing out right now among the receiver corps. I have nothing against walkons, and if they beat out scholarship players....good for them. But I would like to see some of these guys who got scholarships and were apparently highly coveted by this staff and the preceding staff show enough progress to beat out these walkons. Donavan Ollie, Billy Pospisil, Jay Wilkerson, Brandon Gray, etc....all came in with relatively high expectations....at least higher than the walkons. Yet they don't seem to be mentioned by Rolo when he's talking about his WR core. Ollie seems to be on the depth chart, at least. If this team has to rely that much on walkons to build its roster depth, that troubles me a bit. I guess we'll see how it all turns out.

Glad Cougar

We've seen a lot of scholarship WR's depart since Rolo arrived and this has given an opportunity for walk ons to step into more reps. Especially when Gray, Pellum, Wilkerson, Hobert, Jackson and Pospisil have all been battling injuries. The bummer is the lack of reps these guys are getting because they are hurt. You want your most talented kids getting time to build chemistry.

Lincoln Victor was a scholarship kid at Hawaii though. He seems destined for a scholarship. Bigger problems if Mitchell Quinn and Drake Owens are rotating in this fall.

 

[79COUG]

....how much of the talk in spring practice has been about the walkon receivers? Mitchell Quinn, Lincoln Victor, Drake Owen have all been specifically mentioned by Rolo as standing out right now among the receiver corps. I have nothing against walkons, and if they beat out scholarship players....good for them. But I would like to see some of these guys who got scholarships and were apparently highly coveted by this staff and the preceding staff show enough progress to beat out these walkons. Donavan Ollie, Billy Pospisil, Jay Wilkerson, Brandon Gray, etc....all came in with relatively high expectations....at least higher than the walkons. Yet they don't seem to be mentioned by Rolo when he's talking about his WR core. Ollie seems to be on the depth chart, at least. If this team has to rely that much on walkons to build its roster depth, that troubles me a bit. I guess we'll see how it all turns out.

Glad Cougar

Maybe this is on purpose? A little gamesmanship by Rolo?

 

[dgibbons]

....how much of the talk in spring practice has been about the walkon receivers? Mitchell Quinn, Lincoln Victor, Drake Owen have all been specifically mentioned by Rolo as standing out right now among the receiver corps. I have nothing against walkons, and if they beat out scholarship players....good for them. But I would like to see some of these guys who got scholarships and were apparently highly coveted by this staff and the preceding staff show enough progress to beat out these walkons. Donavan Ollie, Billy Pospisil, Jay Wilkerson, Brandon Gray, etc....all came in with relatively high expectations....at least higher than the walkons. Yet they don't seem to be mentioned by Rolo when he's talking about his WR core. Ollie seems to be on the depth chart, at least. If this team has to rely that much on walkons to build its roster depth, that troubles me a bit. I guess we'll see how it all turns out.

Glad Cougar

It happens every spring because the roster is smaller. The new class is not here yet, so the walk-ons are getting more reps.

 

[Brent H.]

It happens every spring because the roster is smaller. The new class is not here yet, so the walk-ons are getting more reps.

Wasn't it Markoff and Dobots that looked like All Pac-12 running backs a few years ago during spring ball bc of injuries?

 

[dgibbons]

Wasn't it Markoff and Dobots that looked like All Pac-12 running backs a few years ago during spring ball bc of injuries?

Yep.

Like the sun rising in the east....

 

[WASH ST A&M FAN]

There was also a certain TE one spring that was going to reinvent the inside WR spot since he was so big and strong. I'm going to tread lightly here since their was a poster that had an vested interest in the reconstruction of that position.

Let's just say things went back to normal come Fall Camp.

 

[425cougfan]

To the OP, a bit, but I share the reactions others have had. We've seen this pretty much every year, going back to the Leach era, even though it does seem even more the case this year.

 

[etowncoug]

It happens every spring because the roster is smaller. The new class is not here yet, so the walk-ons are getting more reps.

Except theoretically we have a 5 classes of scholarship guys on the roster with a 6th class coming in this fall. If our roster was healthy the only walk ons getting serious reps would be Roff and Victor.

 

[wazzucougs96]

I am far more concerned about who and where we seem to be recruiting.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

This is the time of year when effort is recognized. A certain school of thought suggests that walk-ons realize that they have to work harder, and as a result, they actually do work harder than a lot of the scholarship players. Hence they get recognition. Which is good practice under any circumstances, but also serves, as the French say, "pour encourager les autres" (as an example to the others).

 

[BiggsCoug]

I am far more concerned about who and where we seem to be recruiting.

Imo, they are chasing kids all over the country that don't need to be chased. WSU needs to be a SoCal team with whoever else they can get from WA, HI, AZ. Allocating assets to far off states when there are so many kids on the West Coast to recruit seems ridiculous. Especially when Chun is talking about how WSU is a development school.

 

[Coug90]

We've seen a lot of scholarship WR's depart since Rolo arrived and this has given an opportunity for walk ons to step into more reps. Especially when Gray, Pellum, Wilkerson, Hobert, Jackson and Pospisil have all been battling injuries. The bummer is the lack of reps these guys are getting because they are hurt. You want your most talented kids getting time to build chemistry.

Lincoln Victor was a scholarship kid at Hawaii though. He seems destined for a scholarship. Bigger problems if Mitchell Quinn and Drake Owens are rotating in this fall.

Not at all. Take a look at these guys they don’t look like walk ons...and a couple of them can scoot. This is good news IMP having some depth where maybe you didn’t expect it to come from.

 

[cougcowboy]

Imo, they are chasing kids all over the country that don't need to be chased. WSU needs to be a SoCal team with whoever else they can get from WA, HI, AZ. Allocating assets to far off states when there are so many kids on the West Coast to recruit seems ridiculous. Especially when Chun is talking about how WSU is a development school.

Problem is, due to the pandemic, the West hasn't played as much football this year. West coast high schoolers haven't gotten the reps or the tape that is so important..

 

[BiggsCoug]

Problem is, due to the pandemic, the West hasn't played as much football this year. West coast high schoolers haven't gotten the reps or the tape that is so important..

Agree. Consider this tho.... Power 5 kids have power 5 dna. Perimeter talent is gonna run like the wind blows. Interior talent is gonna be enormous. 99% of kids are already out of contention on dna alone. It isnt hard to find P5 kids. They stick out.

The situation is what it is. WSU is gonna have to take some chances on kids without a ton of film and coach them up or move them on. Now is the time, imo, to be stockpiling 25 high school kids per year. Keep the guys that work out, move kids on that dont. It wont be easy but it is what will likely be done with every Pac 12 school.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Agree. Consider this tho.... Power 5 kids have power 5 dna. Perimeter talent is gonna run like the wind blows. Interior talent is gonna be enormous. 99% of kids are already out of contention on dna alone. It isnt hard to find P5 kids. They stick out.

The situation is what it is. WSU is gonna have to take some chances on kids without a ton of film and coach them up or move them on. Now is the time, imo, to be stockpiling 25 high school kids per year. Keep the guys that work out, move kids on that dont. It wont be easy but it is what will likely be done with every Pac 12 school.

This is a sound medium-term strategy. Going big on HS kids is never a quick fix/short term answer, but it is what you do if you want to have a solid foundation in 3 years. Mid- to Long term, of course, comes down to the full set of intangibles...including the staff's ability to evaluate talent over time, coaching talent (because coaching & development matters in every field, not just athletics), the HC's ability to manage, lead & direct his staff....a whole pile of things. But if there is no immediate pressure to fill slots, it is always better to err on the side of more HS kids, so long as you are willing to use the portal to cull the ones who cannot or choose not to develop. I find it ironic in some ways that college FB player selection & development has evolved into the same model that businesses use, at the same time that college FB has clearly become a Fortune 50 sized business.

 

[BiggsCoug]

This is a sound medium-term strategy. Going big on HS kids is never a quick fix/short term answer, but it is what you do if you want to have a solid foundation in 3 years. Mid- to Long term, of course, comes down to the full set of intangibles...including the staff's ability to evaluate talent over time, coaching talent (because coaching & development matters in every field, not just athletics), the HC's ability to manage, lead & direct his staff....a whole pile of things. But if there is no immediate pressure to fill slots, it is always better to err on the side of more HS kids, so long as you are willing to use the portal to cull the ones who cannot or choose not to develop. I find it ironic in some ways that college FB player selection & development has evolved into the same model that businesses use, at the same time that college FB has clearly become a Fortune 50 sized business.

If WSU was gonna be a top destination for JC kids at what point would it have happened??? Honestly, outside of a glaring need here and there, why even bother with JC kids?

The portal will be interesting to see develop. But what kind of player are you getting?

I don’t expect 100% of kids to work out. Every staff misfires in evals. Once the kid is on campus he either moves forward on the depth chart or moves on down the road. WSU gets 2-3 star kids that prob need coached up. There is no shortage of those kids on the West Coast.

If it were me, I’d be signing upwards of 20 kids per year out of SoCal. Im going to build the WSU brand in the nearest hotbed of talent. Im going to create support for kids and families. I am going to change the perspective that kids from SoCal are being banished to the Palouse. I am going to push more $ into SoCal to make sure I hit on all the late bloomers or tweeners I can.

 

[cougcowboy]

Agree. Consider this tho.... Power 5 kids have power 5 dna. Perimeter talent is gonna run like the wind blows. Interior talent is gonna be enormous. 99% of kids are already out of contention on dna alone. It isnt hard to find P5 kids. They stick out.

The situation is what it is. WSU is gonna have to take some chances on kids without a ton of film and coach them up or move them on. Now is the time, imo, to be stockpiling 25 high school kids per year. Keep the guys that work out, move kids on that dont. It wont be easy but it is what will likely be done with every Pac 12 school.

Agree: but I also think there are going to be a bunch more preferred walk ons this year from west coast kids.

 

[longtimecoug]

Imo, they are chasing kids all over the country that don't need to be chased. WSU needs to be a SoCal team with whoever else they can get from WA, HI, AZ. Allocating assets to far off states when there are so many kids on the West Coast to recruit seems ridiculous. Especially when Chun is talking about how WSU is a development school.

I agree, we are offering kids all over the country when California is here on the west coast and loaded with talent

 

[BiggsCoug]

I agree, we are offering kids all over the country when California is here on the west coast and loaded with talent

I saw a video of Frank Beamer talking about evaluating kids. "How fast? How well do they change direction? The taller the better."

West Coast kids do not come up in a football culture like Texas or the South or some Midwest states. You have to project them. You have to have a tip top strength staff to get them up to speed asap. They are behind the rest of the P5 kids. They aren't as strong. They aren't as well coached. They haven't been exposed to the same culture or pressure. They are just not the same kids as Texas, Florida, Ohio, Louisiana, Georgia, etc.

At WSU you do not have the luxury of running out a roster of 4 and 5 star kids and letting them make big plays to bail out your poor coaching.

You have to evaluate kids, grow them, coach them and then make great calls on gameday. There is no margin for error.

 

[mikalalas]

Imo, they are chasing kids all over the country that don't need to be chased. WSU needs to be a SoCal team with whoever else they can get from WA, HI, AZ. Allocating assets to far off states when there are so many kids on the West Coast to recruit seems ridiculous. Especially when Chun is talking about how WSU is a development school.

Yes, WSU does need to recruit So Cal, WA, ID, Hawai, America Samoa, Arizona, Texas. And yes your right that there are a lot of good players that WSU shouldnt have to go far and wide around the country, world, looking for football players.

But even tho that's the case, does any of that Matter if can't successfully get those 2.85/3/3.5/3.75/4 stars to goto WSU?

No it doesnt, wouldnt matter.

I know that some would say, then what does it matter if WSU goes all over the country, world, if WSU can't get 3/3.5/4 star players to goto WSU.

It's not a cant issue, its a methodology issue.

Mike Leach had more 4 stars goto WSU then any past coach in WSU history. How did he do it? He recruited So Cal, Texas as his base, and then expanded to Arizona, the PNW, Oklahoma, Nevada, Colorado, Utah. He also recruited Hawai, American Samoa. Then he scoured the rest of the whole nation. He was a good salesman. He was persistent. If he was told no. He would keep an open line, then he would move on, and ask another.

That is also why Smith has been successful. If Smith did what you said, WSU's Bball team wouldnt be that good now.

Also this is how Mike Price did it as well, recruit the main base(So Cal), Texas, then Mike Price would scour the world after that. He was a good salesman was also persistent.

And thats why Price got Devard Darling from Florida.

You may say that its not worth the time money, to dosearch that far.

But it is worth the time, money, to search that far, far enough, over the whole world if necessary, in order to get 3/3.5/4 star recruits to goto WSU.

Your the one who is always saying that WSU does not spend enough. Well WSU is now spending more money to search farther away for recruits, and is, has been successful at it as evidenced by Leach and Smith.

Quite frankly I dont care whether a 3.5/4/4.5/5 star comes from the North or South Pole or wherever, as long as they are either 3.5/4/4.5/5 stars that can play, contribute, maybe even star, or if not a semi high rated recruit, is, was at least a 2.75 star recruit, that is, was developed into, plays like a 3.5/4/4.5/5 star recruit.

If WSU only recruits So Cal, Texas, etc, WSU is probably not going to be able to recruit 3/3.5/4 star recruits, as probably the only way WSU is probably going to be able to recruit 3/3.5/4 star recruits is by SCOURING the NATION

Thats the case, until, unless a coach proves this wrong, as Mike Price, Mike Leach, Smith, have proved this right

 

[mikalalas]

If WSU was gonna be a top destination for JC kids at what point would it have happened??? Honestly, outside of a glaring need here and there, why even bother with JC kids?

The portal will be interesting to see develop. But what kind of player are you getting?

I don’t expect 100% of kids to work out. Every staff misfires in evals. Once the kid is on campus he either moves forward on the depth chart or moves on down the road. WSU gets 2-3 star kids that prob need coached up. There is no shortage of those kids on the West Coast.

If it were me, I’d be signing upwards of 20 kids per year out of SoCal. Im going to build the WSU brand in the nearest hotbed of talent. Im going to create support for kids and families. I am going to change the perspective that kids from SoCal are being banished to the Palouse. I am going to push more $ into SoCal to make sure I hit on all the late bloomers or tweeners I can.

I agree with some of this. So Cal does need to be recruited more along with Texas.

But saying to ONLY recruit So Cal, etc, and to NOT SCOUR THE NATION, is a Prescription for WSU to only get a range of 2/2.5/3 stars.

I know you probably think thats ok, and that WSU cant do better then that.

But Mike Price, Mike Leach has done better then that.

Only getting 2/2.5/lowest ended 3 stars is what the CARDIAC Coug type coaches, Walden, Wulf did.

Mike Price, and Mike Leach, Smith have shown that WSU can recruit a range of 3 star/3.5 star/Lowest Ended 4 stars, if WSU, the HC is willing to SCOUR THE NATION, BE PERSISTENT, AND BE A GOOD SALESMAN.

So its not only time to do a better job of recruiting So Cal better and more, but its also time to go wherever WSU will get that 3 star/3.5 star/lowest ended 4 star recruit, even if that were to be the North Pole or South Pole.

 

[mikalalas]

I agree with some of this. So Cal does need to be recruited more along with Texas.

But saying to ONLY recruit So Cal, etc, and to NOT SCOUR THE NATION, is a Prescription for WSU to only get a range of 2/2.5/3 stars.

I know you probably think thats ok, and that WSU cant do better then that.

But Mike Price, Mike Leach has done better then that.

Only getting 2/2.5/lowest ended 3 stars is what the CARDIAC Coug type coaches, Walden, Wulf did.

Mike Price, and Mike Leach, Smith have shown that WSU can recruit a range of 3 star/3.5 star/Lowest Ended 4 stars, if WSU, the HC is willing to SCOUR THE NATION, BE PERSISTENT, AND BE A GOOD SALESMAN.

So its not only time to do a better job of recruiting So Cal better and more, but its also time to go wherever WSU will get that 3 star/3.5 star/lowest ended 4 star recruit, even if that were to be the North Pole or South Pole.

Also in other words WSU needs to, as has, open up its recruiting NATIONALLY.

That is what Airforce does, and Airforce is the most competitive of the Militiary Football colleges, even tho it is in the Mountain West and even tho it usually only wins 5.5 to 6 to 6.5 to 7 wins per season.

NATIONAL recruiting means you recruit your BASES HARD(In WSU's case that means So Cal, Texas, Hawai, American Samoa, Arizona, PNW), then either at the same time, or after that you also SCOUR, hit the rest of the country HARD.

That of course will cost more money, which is worth it, if the coach can recruit like Smith, Price, Leach, and not worth it if the coach recruits at Wulfian levels.