Athlon has Claeys...

[etowncoug]

E-Town ... regarding Ball there was only one thing you said was accurate . In terms of Tormey I find it hard to believe he was offered a job . Second hand but someone he worked with in his past told me he wasn’t , but not the horses mouth .

The coaching carosel is crazy. But people in a strong bargaining position don't generally take demotions. The simplest explanation is he wasn't given much of an offer. I'm open to a detailed explanation to the contrary.

Fact is, seven years later Ball still is in a less prestigious position than he was in 2011 and he hasn't taken a demotion since leaving. I have a hard time believing Ball turned down a coordinator job at the power 5 level to be a position coach for a notorious nomad in Graham. Open to evidence to the contrary.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

For the record, as you guys pee in each other's corn flakes....

At this or any significant level, virtually no job is initially offered in writing. A negotiation takes place, a verbal agreement then occurs and an offer is then generated in writing which matches the terms that were agreed upon verbally. No entity with which I am familiar would float a written offer without having a prior verbal agreement. That would be pretty stupid, to be blunt.

If I knew someone who was in on the negotiations, then if that person confirmed to me that the negotiations took place, it would serve for me (and probably most sane people) as proof that the employer was interested in the person being pursued. I don't know how else one could interpret that. The negotiations would not be taking place if there was no interest. Obviously the negotiations may not conclude with a job offer for a lot of reasons...job description, compensation, travel requirements, immediate supervisor, etc., all come immediately to mind, and that is with only a few minutes thought.

None of that suggests that Leach wanted Chris Ball to stick around. I suspect that he probably did at least give him a courtesy interview. I can't picture Leach wanting him as a coordinator, and if CML had interest in Ball, it may well have been at a position below what Ball thought he was worth...and if that were the case, there may have been some mild interest by CML, but clearly not a matching of expectations that would lead to an actual job offer.

 

[YakiCoug]

Ok....and what if I can prove to that is indeed what happened? Is Leach a "buffoon?

Your words? Ok, lets backtrack. You offered to have another poster say your claim that ballsack had an offer is true. This isn't evidence. It isn't proof. This is akin to one Trump saying another Trump can vouch for him. You apparently cite a quote from another staff member in an article about his hiring. Assuming ballsack had the same deal is not proof/evidence.
In short, you have no evidence. Again, you've waded in this cesspool of nonsense before. And why does it continue? Because Tron insulted Ball, and that gets you going every single time. It's pathetically predictable.

 

[YakiCoug]

For the record, as you guys pee in each other's corn flakes....

At this or any significant level, virtually no job is initially offered in writing. A negotiation takes place, a verbal agreement then occurs and an offer is then generated in writing which matches the terms that were agreed upon verbally. No entity with which I am familiar would float a written offer without having a prior verbal agreement. That would be pretty stupid, to be blunt.

If I knew someone who was in on the negotiations, then if that person confirmed to me that the negotiations took place, it would serve for me (and probably most sane people) as proof that the employer was interested in the person being pursued. I don't know how else one could interpret that. The negotiations would not be taking place if there was no interest. Obviously the negotiations may not conclude with a job offer for a lot of reasons...job description, compensation, travel requirements, immediate supervisor, etc., all come immediately to mind, and that is with only a few minutes thought.

None of that suggests that Leach wanted Chris Ball to stick around. I suspect that he probably did at least give him a courtesy interview. I can't picture Leach wanting him as a coordinator, and if CML had interest in Ball, it may well have been at a position below what Ball thought he was worth...and if that were the case, there may have been some mild interest by CML, but clearly not a matching of expectations that would lead to an actual job offer.

An interview isn't an offer. And conjecture is not proof that an offer was made. Ed originally says, "what if I can prove... ?" He's offered nothing, because he has nothing. He either puts up or shuts up.

 

[Cougatron]

For the record, as you guys pee in each other's corn flakes....

At this or any significant level, virtually no job is initially offered in writing. A negotiation takes place, a verbal agreement then occurs and an offer is then generated in writing which matches the terms that were agreed upon verbally. No entity with which I am familiar would float a written offer without having a prior verbal agreement. That would be pretty stupid, to be blunt.

If I knew someone who was in on the negotiations, then if that person confirmed to me that the negotiations took place, it would serve for me (and probably most sane people) as proof that the employer was interested in the person being pursued. I don't know how else one could interpret that. The negotiations would not be taking place if there was no interest. Obviously the negotiations may not conclude with a job offer for a lot of reasons...job description, compensation, travel requirements, immediate supervisor, etc., all come immediately to mind, and that is with only a few minutes thought.

None of that suggests that Leach wanted Chris Ball to stick around. I suspect that he probably did at least give him a courtesy interview. I can't picture Leach wanting him as a coordinator, and if CML had interest in Ball, it may well have been at a position below what Ball thought he was worth...and if that were the case, there may have been some mild interest by CML, but clearly not a matching of expectations that would lead to an actual job offer.

An actual written offer is an actual offer. Anyone can say anything they want, but offers are offers. Period.

That's why if you go to the court and say. "Well my next door neighbor said he would give me a million dollars we talked about it"

"okay is there any written documentation of this arrangement"

"No but we talked about it"

The judge would laugh at you. LAUGH at you and dismiss your "claim".

Leach didn't want Ballsack, he wasn't going to retain any of the previous staff. Like MOST new coaches.

How many previous WSU coaches from the Wulff staff were retained? Zero. Because he didn't want any, and Chris Ball knew that and was already trying to make whatever move he could to land somewhere.

BallSack sucked, and continues to suck making Memphis poor defensively, after running ASU into the dirt defensively as well.

 

[etowncoug]

Tron-

Leach DID retain Choate. And keeping a single coach is fairly standard in transitions.

An actual written offer is an actual offer. Anyone can say anything they want, but offers are offers. Period.

That's why if you go to the court and say. "Well my next door neighbor said he would give me a million dollars we talked about it"

"okay is there any written documentation of this arrangement"

"No but we talked about it"

The judge would laugh at you. LAUGH at you and dismiss your "claim".

Leach didn't want Ballsack, he wasn't going to retain any of the previous staff. Like MOST new coaches.

How many previous WSU coaches from the Wulff staff were retained? Zero. Because he didn't want any, and Chris Ball knew that and was already trying to make whatever move he could to land somewhere.

BallSack sucked, and continues to suck making Memphis poor defensively, after running ASU into the dirt defensively as well.

 

[Cougatron]

Tron-

Leach DID retain Choate. And keeping a single coach is fairly standard in transitions.

No he didn't. Choate was from Boise, he was friends with Eric Russell.

Most Coaches do not retain the previous coaching staff.

 

[FnuLnu]

I know a guy who was boinking his co-worker, got caught by his wife, and had to dance like heck getting out of it, telling his wife he was just helping her through a divorce. Something like that. He continues obsessing over it to this day. Weird.

Maybe he was.

Help comes in many forms.

 

[etowncoug]

No he didn't. Choate was from Boise, he was friends with Eric Russell.

Most Coaches do not retain the previous coaching staff.

Tron,

Choate was here for two seasons. 2011 (under Wulff) and 2012 (under Leach). It's extremely common for new coaches to retain one coach.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Why TF would you want any coach from a 9 win run to stick around??? Cause they're a good coach??? lol not on that staff.

Where are all these awesome coaches that could evaluate and recruit and coach up the kids at now if they are so awesome???

 

[Coug95man2]

Tron,

Choate was here for two seasons. 2011 (under Wulff) and 2012 (under Leach). It's extremely common for new coaches to retain one coach.

NM

 

[etowncoug]

https://www.cougcenter.com/2012/1/16/2712107/jeff-choate-mike-leach-staff-wsu-football

I stand corrected. Thanks for the link!

 

[Coug95man2]

I stand corrected. Thanks for the link!

Gonna take the link down now...

 

[CougEd]

Why TF would you want any coach from a 9 win run to stick around??? Cause they're a good coach??? lol not on that staff.

Where are all these awesome coaches that could evaluate and recruit and coach up the kids at now if they are so awesome???

99% of the time you don't, unless there was someone you really liked. They want to start over. But you do get there are really good coaches in really crappy situations. While they overall product could suck, it doesn't mean Coach so and so sucks and their work wasn't outstanding.

 

[CougEd]

An actual written offer is an actual offer. Anyone can say anything they want, but offers are offers. Period.

That's why if you go to the court and say. "Well my next door neighbor said he would give me a million dollars we talked about it"

"okay is there any written documentation of this arrangement"

"No but we talked about it"

The judge would laugh at you. LAUGH at you and dismiss your "claim".

Leach didn't want Ballsack, he wasn't going to retain any of the previous staff. Like MOST new coaches.

How many previous WSU coaches from the Wulff staff were retained? Zero. Because he didn't want any, and Chris Ball knew that and was already trying to make whatever move he could to land somewhere.

BallSack sucked, and continues to suck making Memphis poor defensively, after running ASU into the dirt defensively as well.

So let me ask you the following Tron, since only a "written offer" is an offer, are recruits asked to sign a written offer to validate they have been offered?

 

[CougEd]

Your words? Ok, lets backtrack. You offered to have another poster say your claim that ballsack had an offer is true. This isn't evidence. It isn't proof. This is akin to one Trump saying another Trump can vouch for him. You apparently cite a quote from another staff member in an article about his hiring. Assuming ballsack had the same deal is not proof/evidence.
In short, you have no evidence. Again, you've waded in this cesspool of nonsense before. And why does it continue? Because Tron insulted Ball, and that gets you going every single time. It's pathetically predictable.

First, glad today you are keeping it on the board and not messaging like some manic soul. I do appreciate you honoring my 5th request that you not message me. What you can say behind closed doors can be said here in an open forum.

Second, I offered to share my information to another poster how I came about my information, where and when I heard this piece of info, and most important WHY I heard it and how that subject came up. I would allow you or Tron to pick a poster you trust. If my background info and level of detail on how I know this doesn't pass the mustard, continue to spew what you would like to spew. My only request if I am going to tell someone the story I would want to make sure it is someone I can trust (for many different reasons...and the reasons don't all don't all and not divulge the circumstances in which I came across that information.

Yes, I did cite Emerick in how he was offered a job. That is how it is done in college football. They don't have contacts and offer letters in hand.

The only reason I brought Leach wanting Ball to be on his staff was Tron called anyone would would offer him a position is a buffoon, and I don't think Leach is a buffoon nor do I think Price is one.

 

[CougEd]

The coaching carosel is crazy. But people in a strong bargaining position don't generally take demotions. The simplest explanation is he wasn't given much of an offer. I'm open to a detailed explanation to the contrary.

Fact is, seven years later Ball still is in a less prestigious position than he was in 2011 and he hasn't taken a demotion since leaving. I have a hard time believing Ball turned down a coordinator job at the power 5 level to be a position coach for a notorious nomad in Graham. Open to evidence to the contrary.

I am not sure i ever said he was offered the sole position of DC at WSU. I think what I said is he was offered a job at WSU. ASU gave him the title of Co-DC and more money. People make mistakes all the time and it derails their career.

For the longest time Dennis Erickson made all the right moves. And his timing was right. The fatal move was going to San Fran. Has his career looked the same? There are many people who seem to make the right move at the time and it backfires. For two years it looked like Ball made the right decision. But it was very clear he was a DB coach who was Co- DC in name only.

I could name ten assistants off the top of my head who hooked up with the wrong team and made them start from rock bottom. Take a peek at where Greg Burns is now compared to where he was with Pete Carroll at USC, and the stops he has had along the ways. And it is fair to say he has come back better than most, and he is a DB coach at OSU.

If I were a betting man if Ball could play it over, the smarter move would have been to get on Leach's staff. Clearly it is more stable.

 

[Cougatron]

So let me ask you the following Tron, since only a "written offer" is an offer, are recruits asked to sign a written offer to validate they have been offered?

They sign a commitment and they also receive

"Keep in mind: Verbal offers aren’t binding
Although it is unlikely that a coach will rescind an athletic scholarship offer, it’s crucial to know that a verbal commitment is not official until there’s a written offer. "

 

[YakiCoug]

Still waiting for E.D.'s "proof"...

They sign a commitment and they also receive

"Keep in mind: Verbal offers aren’t binding
Although it is unlikely that a coach will rescind an athletic scholarship offer, it’s crucial to know that a verbal commitment is not official until there’s a written offer. "

 

[CougEd]

They sign a commitment and they also receive

"Keep in mind: Verbal offers aren’t binding
Although it is unlikely that a coach will rescind an athletic scholarship offer, it’s crucial to know that a verbal commitment is not official until there’s a written offer. "

Yeah ... what is your point ? I get what a binding agreement is and I am sure everyone else does as well. Umm I said he was OFFERED a position .Just as these recruits are offered a scholies. It is clear there was no acceptance ... which is and was too bad for Ball.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Cougatron and CougEd,

I think there's room for both of your viewpoints to co-exist with neither necessarily be wrong.

As Tron says, at the end of the day, if you don't have it in writing, you very well have nothing at all. And, at the end of the day, nothing is indeed nothing.

But verbal offers also are a valuable tool to both gauge interest and "get a fish on the hook" even if they sometimes fall short of a finalized agreement.

Athletic Directors are loathe to offer a job to someone who ends up declining the position. So an AD might feel the coach out (or, more likely, his agent) by asking, "Would you take our job if we offer?" without actually committing to giving him the job. If the AD senses the coach won't take the job, then no reason to offer even if that person might have been the first choice.

That leads to the second scenario, which IMHO is likely what happened with John Currie, UT's now deposed athletic director. Currie was clearly reeling after the Greg Schiano fiasco and wanted to quickly bring the mess to a halt, so he lines up Coach Leach as the new Vols coach without getting any sort of approval by those above him in his university hierarchy. Everyone at CougZone is at least somewhat familiar with what transpired from that point. Tennessee moved on CML remained in Pullman for his seventh season (and hopefully many, many more after that).

 

[CougEd]

Cougatron and CougEd,

I think there's room for both of your viewpoints to co-exist with neither necessarily be wrong.

As Tron says, at the end of the day, if you don't have it in writing, you very well have nothing at all. And, at the end of the day, nothing is indeed nothing.

But verbal offers also are a valuable tool to both gauge interest and "get a fish on the hook" even if they sometimes fall short of a finalized agreement.

Athletic Directors are loathe to offer a job to someone who ends up declining the position. So an AD might feel the coach out (or, more likely, his agent) by asking, "Would you take our job if we offer?" without actually committing to giving him the job. If the AD senses the coach won't take the job, then no reason to offer even if that person might have been the first choice.

That leads to the second scenario, which IMHO is likely what happened with John Currie, UT's now deposed athletic director. Currie was clearly reeling after the Greg Schiano fiasco and wanted to quickly bring the mess to a halt, so he lines up Coach Leach as the new Vols coach without getting any sort of approval by those above him in his university hierarchy. Everyone at CougZone is at least somewhat familiar with what transpired from that point. Tennessee moved on CML remained in Pullman for his seventh season (and hopefully many, many more after that).

When it comes to assistant coaches(which is different to head coaches because of the public relations issue you mentioned) the head coach extends the offer . They know when the offer is extended what the base pay is etc. it has always been that way .

I could say Mike Leach told me himself and Tron apparently wouldn’t think that was a valid source. Or Leach could come out and say himself he offered Ball a job and apparently that isn’t evidence. I guess it needs to be a written offer for it to qualify . And I do not have that and if I did I wouldn’t provide it anyway .

 

[YakiCoug]

Tron-

Leach DID retain Choate. And keeping a single coach is fairly standard in transitions.

And Tuel took on that Idaho State linebacker instead of getting out of bounds... (but unlike spongeforbrains a few years ago, you've admitted your mistake. Good for you).

 

[YakiCoug]

Perhaps Leach offered ballsack the head custodian position, but I'm not sure the sack even qualified for that...

Cougatron and CougEd,

I think there's room for both of your viewpoints to co-exist with neither necessarily be wrong.

As Tron says, at the end of the day, if you don't have it in writing, you very well have nothing at all. And, at the end of the day, nothing is indeed nothing.

But verbal offers also are a valuable tool to both gauge interest and "get a fish on the hook" even if they sometimes fall short of a finalized agreement.

Athletic Directors are loathe to offer a job to someone who ends up declining the position. So an AD might feel the coach out (or, more likely, his agent) by asking, "Would you take our job if we offer?" without actually committing to giving him the job. If the AD senses the coach won't take the job, then no reason to offer even if that person might have been the first choice.

That leads to the second scenario, which IMHO is likely what happened with John Currie, UT's now deposed athletic director. Currie was clearly reeling after the Greg Schiano fiasco and wanted to quickly bring the mess to a halt, so he lines up Coach Leach as the new Vols coach without getting any sort of approval by those above him in his university hierarchy. Everyone at CougZone is at least somewhat familiar with what transpired from that point. Tennessee moved on CML remained in Pullman for his seventh season (and hopefully many, many more after that).

 

[YakiCoug]

When it comes to assistant coaches(which is different to head coaches because of the public relations issue you mentioned) the head coach extends the offer . They know when the offer is extended what the base pay is etc. it has always been that way .

I could say Mike Leach told me himself and Tron apparently wouldn’t think that was a valid source. Or Leach could come out and say himself he offered Ball a job and apparently that isn’t evidence. I guess it needs to be a written offer for it to qualify . And I do not have that and if I did I wouldn’t provide it anyway .

Ah, the goof with no proof ...

 

[CougEd]

And Tuel took on that Idaho State linebacker instead of getting out of bounds... (but unlike spongeforbrains a few years ago, you've admitted your mistake. Good for you).

Huh . Tuel got hurt because he didn’t get out of bounds . And I don’t know what sponge said about the issue . You do get were are not Siamese twins, don’t you ?

 

[CougEd]

Perhaps Leach offered ballsack the head custodian position, but I'm not sure the sack even qualified for that...

But even the custodian position wasn’t offered because there was no contract .

 

[YakiCoug]

But even the custodian position wasn’t offered because there was no contract .

You're a birther, right? Trump had proof ...

 

[CougEd]

Still waiting for E.D.'s "proof"...

Trust me I don’t have the proof u need. I could tell you Coach Leach told me himself and I have a picture and a recording and that wouldn’t satisfy the burden of proof for you. Kind of reminds me of republican friends who claim no one in the Trump orbit met with the Russians only To find out Don Jr tweets he met with them in June.

There would be no evidence that meets your needs. I offered to give the story to a poster of your choice . Again it isn’t to “protect” me . The only reason I ever brought this up was Cougfan got similar info. And I probably knew a year earlier , circa around cal debacle of 14.

 

[YakiCoug]

Huh . Tuel got hurt because he didn’t get out of bounds . And I don’t know what sponge said about the issue . You do get were are not Siamese twins, don’t you ?

Alzheimers at 60? Let's help you out. Tuel went low as a LB flew over him, and then crashed on his shoulder - out of bounds. I found the video clip quite awhile ago and posted it on the board. It was the beginning of the end for your mama's lesser child.

 

[CougEd]

You're a birther, right? Trump had proof ...

Just as we havent offered any recruits . No offer sheet . Means they are “interested “ but no offer and certainly no soft or firm verbal .

 

[CougEd]

Alzheimers at 60? Let's help you out. Tuel went low as a LB flew over him, and then crashed on his shoulder - out of bounds. I found the video clip quite awhile ago and posted it on the board. It was the beginning of the end for your mama's lesser child.

Oh the mother thing again. I don’t get the reference ? Wouldn’t that be my parents lessor child. Please explain the reference to only one of my parents .

 

[YakiCoug]

Oh the mother thing again. I don’t get the reference ? Wouldn’t that be my parents lessor child. Please explain the reference to only one of my parents .

Definition of lessor
: one that transfers property (such as a house or a car) by a contract

brilliant...

 

[CougEd]

Definition of lessor
: one that transfers property (such as a house or a car) by a contract

brilliant...

Sorry for the typo... lesser.

Definition of lessor
: one that transfers property (such as a house or a car) by a contract

brilliant...

Thanks for catching the typo. Glad you are putting that English Lit degree to work. Now maybe you can explain the mother reference so that will be clear to me as well.

 

[Cougatron]

Cougatron and CougEd,

I think there's room for both of your viewpoints to co-exist with neither necessarily be wrong.

As Tron says, at the end of the day, if you don't have it in writing, you very well have nothing at all. And, at the end of the day, nothing is indeed nothing.

But verbal offers also are a valuable tool to both gauge interest and "get a fish on the hook" even if they sometimes fall short of a finalized agreement.

Athletic Directors are loathe to offer a job to someone who ends up declining the position. So an AD might feel the coach out (or, more likely, his agent) by asking, "Would you take our job if we offer?" without actually committing to giving him the job. If the AD senses the coach won't take the job, then no reason to offer even if that person might have been the first choice.

That leads to the second scenario, which IMHO is likely what happened with John Currie, UT's now deposed athletic director. Currie was clearly reeling after the Greg Schiano fiasco and wanted to quickly bring the mess to a halt, so he lines up Coach Leach as the new Vols coach without getting any sort of approval by those above him in his university hierarchy. Everyone at CougZone is at least somewhat familiar with what transpired from that point. Tennessee moved on CML remained in Pullman for his seventh season (and hopefully many, many more after that).

Nah Ed's whole stupid notions of WSU football and his crappy idols are crumbling every single day. Every day their "legacy" goes further into the clogged toilet of the abyss.

Wulff - trash , fired, and will no forever be immortalized as one of the worst coaches in WSU history.
Walden - trash blowhard, ending his college coaching career on a winless season only to be given a foolish position at WSU for commentary where he acted like an idiot and was thrownout along with his disciple Wulff.
Ballsack - Exposed as yet another charlatan who in quick time led to the collapse of ASU's defense and is working on a new sh*t show in defense at Memphis.

I'm enjoying the collapse immensely. It's like watching someone who had their whole life built around the world is flat all of a sudden have modern science disprove their ignorance and stupidity but desperately cling to their stupid way of thinking. It's fantastic.

 

[CougEd]

Nah Ed's whole stupid notions of WSU football and his crappy idols are crumbling every single day. Every day their "legacy" goes further into the clogged toilet of the abyss.

Wulff - trash , fired, and will no forever be immortalized as one of the worst coaches in WSU history.
Walden - trash blowhard, ending his college coaching career on a winless season only to be given a foolish position at WSU for commentary where he acted like an idiot and was thrownout along with his disciple Wulff.
Ballsack - Exposed as yet another charlatan who in quick time led to the collapse of ASU's defense and is working on a new sh*t show in defense at Memphis.

I'm enjoying the collapse immensely. It's like watching someone who had their whole life built around the world is flat all of a sudden have modern science disprove their ignorance and stupidity but desperately cling to their stupid way of thinking. It's fantastic.

Yep...just trash, doesn't change the discussion now does it. It would sure be nice to OFFER a scholie to a few recruits but apparently we can't because it is not an offer without written documentation.

 

[Cougatron]

Yep...just trash, doesn't change the discussion now does it. It would sure be nice to OFFER a scholie to a few recruits but apparently we can't because it is not an offer without written documentation.

It isn't. A player says they are committed and then changes their mind. But they SAID committed. Guess we shouldn't take a players word for it since a commitment doesn't mean anything.... because it's verbal...

Imagine that. Verbal stuff isn't taken as serious or legitimate.

Well if that is the case then how do you know if it's legitimate?

Perhaps they could send in a SIGNED.....WRITTEN....LETTER.....of intent.

 

[random soul]

 

[CrimsonDisciple]

Leach makes it clear in his book, 0 coaches are kept....he believes there needs to be a complete turnover. Whatever Ball said over beers was to protect his own ego. Leach wasn’t going to keep anyone, period.

 

[YakiCoug]

Yep...just trash, doesn't change the discussion now does it. It would sure be nice to OFFER a scholie to a few recruits but apparently we can't because it is not an offer without written documentation.

It would be nice if you offered the proof you said you could. Alas, you have no proof, you silly goof. Oh, you asked me to mention both your parents. Here they are (btw, it was nice of your pops to allow those three mice to take up residence on his face; mom's a beauty) ...