Attendance and memory lane

[Loyal Coug]

Starting a new thread but tacking on to a post from ava this morning in another thread.

ava said: Agree totally Jourdand. Its not just the money either. Not that many people who really like college basketball around this area. There is a difference between true basketball fans and bandwagon fans. Anyone remember GU prior to 2000. They played pretty decent basketball , and couldn't fill a high school gym for most of their games. Cougars have always had some loyal hoops supporters in Spokane, but not enough of them.

Our attendance history and I don't really agree here. At the bottom is the link to our current info guide. Beasley history is on Page 14, Coaching history on page 75.

When Raveling was here 40! years ago, we averaged no less than 6,558 in attendance. And that was a 1-13, last place Pac-8 year. There were plenty of non-bandwagon fans around.

Rav's years:
Year G W L Pct. Att. Average
1973-74 10 4 6 .400 66,000 6,600
1974-75 12 5 7 .417 78,700 6,558
1975-76 12 11 1 .769 83,350 6,946
1976-77 10 8 2 .800 93,852 9,385
1977-78 11 8 3 .727 73,914 6,719
1978-79 10 7 3 .700 82,383 8,238
1979-80 13 12 1 .923 110,206 8,477
1980-81 13 5 8 .385 80,061 6,159
1981-82 12 7 5 .583 76,300 6,358
1982-83 14 14 0 1.000 96,127 6,866

I'm not going to copy and paste the whole history, but if you peruse the years, we had great support when we won (Rav, Sampson at the end, Tony), and the fans generally stuck around until we tanked. Eastman averaged 8,107 in 95-96. Bone averaged 7,776 in his second year (10-11). As an aside, Sampson's support really wasn't that great. He topped out his last (NCAA) year at 6,079. But then he only had 2 winning seasons in 7 years.

So there are enough fans out there, 40! years later. I won't bother to look up the population bases of Spokane, Whitman and other nearby counties, but they have gone up in 40 years. Along with probably 100,000 more WSU alums spread around the state and beyond.

Three things:
One - win and they will come. Two and three don't matter that much if you have this. Pretty universal concept across all sports at all levels beyond little league.
Two - give them some hope, and a product that they like, and they will come.
Three - give them a coach that they like, and they will come.

Right now we have none of the above. Thus our last two Pac-12 home games drew 2,500 and 3,100 fans.

http://wsucougars.com/documents/2017/10/11/2017_18_Washington_State_Information_Guide.pdf

 

[avabob1]

Brand new beautiful coliseum, 50 cent gas, little tv, and totally different student attitudes. You said it yourself. They even turned out for bad teams. Student attendance was huge back the, and very much independent of on court success. Today you couldn't draw those numbers to a borderline NIT team.

Also, look around. Lots of empty seats in almost every conference venue anymore.

 

[SaveFerris]

There's something about 2 and maybe 3 though. Dick "grind it out" Bennett came in and attendance seemed to increase more than at least I expected even with a bump from Graham. I wondered if people would wait until they won.

It wasn't beautiful every night but we played hard, had a plan, and were competitive. Seemed to catch people's interest and a near sellout for #1 Stanford year 1.

 

[YakiCoug]

Brand new beautiful coliseum, 50 cent gas, little tv, and totally different student attitudes. You said it yourself. They even turned out for bad teams. Student attendance was huge back the, and very much independent of on court success. Today you couldn't draw those numbers to a borderline NIT team.

Also, look around. Lots of empty seats in almost every conference venue anymore.

Many students today are more interested in worshiping themselves on their cell phones. The narcissism in this society has reached staggering levels, all the way from the White House to the frat house.

 

[ttowncoug]

Don't blame the students for not wanting to see a team lose. ZZU crew (student section) was very loud and proud during the Bennett years.

Kent was supposed to energize this program. Go back and read Bill's comments on Kent when he hired him.

If that was the goal, he's failed....badly.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Don't blame the students for not wanting to see a team lose. ZZU crew (student section) was very loud and proud during the Bennett years.

Kent was supposed to energize this program. Go back and read Bill's comments on Kent when he hired him.

If that was the goal, he's failed....badly.

Well said. When Raveling was here for the "Four Father's" celebration (I think in Dick's last year) he stated that "we had gotten the students back, now we needed to get the alumni back". As the students buy at least twice as many sports passes as they have available seats in Beasley, they will be there if we win. Today's kids are no more fixated on their phones than they were 10 years ago. Which is to say about 99%.

Off-topic, I was looking EK up to confirm his age (63). Referring to the students, hiring a then-59 year old has-been in a slick suit to bring energy to the court was a huge mistake by Moos. The same Moos who let him hang around a couple seasons too long in Oregon.

Anyway, it turns out that when Orygon hired EK in 1997, he was the first black head coach hired by UO in any sport. Wow. WSU had at least 3 before that - Rav, Rhodes and Graham. I don't think Kelvin counts - he is part Native American, is he part AA too? Pullman, WA - hub of diversity in the NW.

 

[avabob1]

There is no question that attendance would improve if the team was more competitive. The question is whether the potential increase would even pay for the investment necessary. Kids already have sport passes so them attending doesn't add to revenue. I don't think the potential ceiling for non student attendance is near as high as it once was. I guess I am wondering whether college hoops can any longer be a profit center, although it does depend on how PAC 12 TV revenue is allocated by the athletic dept.

 

[Loyal Coug]

There is no question that attendance would improve if the team was more competitive. The question is whether the potential increase would even pay for the investment necessary. Kids already have sport passes so them attending doesn't add to revenue. I don't think the potential ceiling for non student attendance is near as high as it once was. I guess I am wondering whether college hoops can any longer be a profit center, although it does depend on how PAC 12 TV revenue is allocated by the athletic dept.

Good point and question. Say an additional 4,000 average fans x $20/ticket x 15 games = $1.2 million more. Exactly the difference between EK's salary and Steve Alford at UCLA. Almost the difference between EK and Oregon's now-perennial NCAA participating Ducks' coach. 3 times the difference between EK and UW's coach.

And hey, we only need another $535,000 to pay as much as Gonzaga pays their coach. Hmmm. And I don't know that (buyout argument aside) we need to pay a dime more than we do. Let's just hire a good coach.

 

[avabob1]

I don't think we could get an Alford caliber coach without making significantly large increases on facilities and travel, plus paying a premium over market unless the guy had dome baggage like Leach did.

Coaches salary is the smallest part, although it is becoming pretty significant too. Its the rest of the investment necessary that increased fan attendance wouldn't cover.

 

[Loyal Coug]

I don't think we could get an Alford caliber coach without making significantly large increases on facilities and travel, plus paying a premium over market unless the guy had dome baggage like Leach did.

Coaches salary is the smallest part, although it is becoming pretty significant too. Its the rest of the investment necessary that increased fan attendance wouldn't cover.

No argument on the travel. Still wish someone could estimate the cost of a BBall charter vs flying commercial. On the facilities - I've been to the new kennel once. I think it was the new one anyway - I was not impressed. isn't all that groovy, is it? I looked this up recently - just a few luxury seats? And a bunch of screaming immature spoiled 19 year old kids?

 

[avabob1]

I didn't really care for the new kennel either. half the size of Beasley yet site lines from nosebleed section are no better than those in the much larger Beasley

 

[Observer11]

Beasley's octagonal layout is spectacular for basketball. Really no bad seats.

The Kennel is a rectangle layout and you get some funky views from the corners. Reminds me of the old Spokane Coliseum in that regard. At least the new Arena has more of a horsehoe layout so the corners are still adequate.