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Biggs, your worst nightmare is approaching.

Just when you thought the NCAA couldn't screw it up anymore, they do. My the NCAA has been neutered, they are now scarred to death to stand up for anything. Threat of lawsuits never worried them in the past. Maybe their plan is to let everything go and allow the sports to kill themselves.
 
I can't read this article, and I'm having a hard time finding good details on the discussions, but it looks like what they're talking about is removing the annual 25/32 scholarship limit, but not changing any roster limits or the cap on 85 scholarships per team.

I still don't like the idea, because it essentially allows Alabama to cut their backups every year and go out and buy the best players from other schools....but it's slightly better than what it sounded like...which was a return to the pre-limits days, when teams could just keep 100 kids on scholarship so nobody else can have them.

We're headed toward a situation where colleges become like varsity/JV/C-squad. Maybe 25 teams who have all the talented juniors and seniors, an occasional sophomore, and very few freshmen. The next ~40-50 teams will have mostly sophs and juniors, some freshmen, and seniors who are long on effort and short on talent. The remaining 40-50 teams will be dominated by freshmen and sophomores. Upperclassmen on those teams will be the ones who didn't progress. It won't be quite that cleanly divided, because the top 10 are going to poach from 11-25 also, but that's where I think things are going - everyone else will be feeder schools for the upper echelon.

There will be some downward movement too. The #5 receiver at Clemson who only caught 14 balls his junior season might get cut and replaced with the sophomore #1 receiver from NC State. #5 will then want to catch on somewhere and prove his worth. But the bigger impact is going to be the movement upward by the star performers, concentrating on a small number of teams.

Maybe once it's all complete, the NCAA and NFL can create a tie-in. The team who wins the NC gets a wild card berth in the NFL playoffs. Everybody on that team will be getting paid anyway, might as call them pros.
 
I don't see this as bad news at all for WSU. If anything, it's good news.

Yes, Bama and other power schools are going to load up on talent each year. That'll happen regardless. There is an issue with reps on the field on GameDay though and the portal makes it more difficult for those schools to keep guys in the fold. If we demonstrate the ability to develop kids and get them to a better place (either to the league or a better NIL deal elsewhere) we'll be a coveted location.

I see our eventual model being 25 or so high upside high schoolers each year of which 5-10 are still on the roster in 2 years. Fill in your depth from the portal. Minimal risk if kids don't work out.
 
I don't see this as bad news at all for WSU. If anything, it's good news.

Yes, Bama and other power schools are going to load up on talent each year. That'll happen regardless. There is an issue with reps on the field on GameDay though and the portal makes it more difficult for those schools to keep guys in the fold. If we demonstrate the ability to develop kids and get them to a better place (either to the league or a better NIL deal elsewhere) we'll be a coveted location.

I see our eventual model being 25 or so high upside high schoolers each year of which 5-10 are still on the roster in 2 years. Fill in your depth from the portal. Minimal risk if kids don't work out.
Problem I see, is that we will never get to where every school wants to get and thats to a championship game. You’re just a development school that will go no where but be mediocre.
 
I don't see this as bad news at all for WSU. If anything, it's good news.

Yes, Bama and other power schools are going to load up on talent each year. That'll happen regardless. There is an issue with reps on the field on GameDay though and the portal makes it more difficult for those schools to keep guys in the fold. If we demonstrate the ability to develop kids and get them to a better place (either to the league or a better NIL deal elsewhere) we'll be a coveted location.

I see our eventual model being 25 or so high upside high schoolers each year of which 5-10 are still on the roster in 2 years. Fill in your depth from the portal. Minimal risk if kids don't work out.
At what point do $$$ > gameday reps?
 
Problem I see, is that we will never get to where every school wants to get and thats to a championship game. You’re just a development school that will go no where but be mediocre.

I missed all the Championship games we played in under the old system.

We can be a top 25 program/perennial bowl team under this format. Might be easier because we can plug in new pieces of others don't plan out. The model now is to have coaches who can identify guys who can play based on limited reps at other schools. Under the current rules, the portal needs to be used judiciously. It's a short term fix and if guys don't stick you find yourself struggling to fill your 85 scholarships.

If there was no limit to new additions, we are free to add depth from the portal without worrying the long term impact on the program. It's a help because schools like Bama and Clemson can always add a 5 star kid from high school who can play as true freshmen while we have traditionally needed to develop kids over several years. Our OL is a great example of this. We couldn't fix this in a season.
 
At what point do $$$ > gameday reps?
I'm sure a few kids will take a few grand to ride the pine and have college paid for. The overwhelming majority will realize their value goes up if they see the field.
 
How about reparations for Paul Wulff while we're at it. Let's just promise everything to everyone while we're at it. This is madness.
 
I can't read this article, and I'm having a hard time finding good details on the discussions, but it looks like what they're talking about is removing the annual 25/32 scholarship limit, but not changing any roster limits or the cap on 85 scholarships per team.

I still don't like the idea, because it essentially allows Alabama to cut their backups every year and go out and buy the best players from other schools....but it's slightly better than what it sounded like...which was a return to the pre-limits days, when teams could just keep 100 kids on scholarship so nobody else can have them.

We're headed toward a situation where colleges become like varsity/JV/C-squad. Maybe 25 teams who have all the talented juniors and seniors, an occasional sophomore, and very few freshmen. The next ~40-50 teams will have mostly sophs and juniors, some freshmen, and seniors who are long on effort and short on talent. The remaining 40-50 teams will be dominated by freshmen and sophomores. Upperclassmen on those teams will be the ones who didn't progress. It won't be quite that cleanly divided, because the top 10 are going to poach from 11-25 also, but that's where I think things are going - everyone else will be feeder schools for the upper echelon.

There will be some downward movement too. The #5 receiver at Clemson who only caught 14 balls his junior season might get cut and replaced with the sophomore #1 receiver from NC State. #5 will then want to catch on somewhere and prove his worth. But the bigger impact is going to be the movement upward by the star performers, concentrating on a small number of teams.

Maybe once it's all complete, the NCAA and NFL can create a tie-in. The team who wins the NC gets a wild card berth in the NFL playoffs. Everybody on that team will be getting paid anyway, might as call them pros.

That would be a joke as even the last place, worst NFL team would beat whoever won the National Championship in College.

NFL ready, EXPERIENCED, but not too old, etc, STRONG MEN, vs not as ready, less experienced, less strong, etc, either younger MEN, AND BOYS.

Or MEN VS BOYS.

It would be a 75-0 blow out in favor of even worst NFL Team, let alone a play off, Superbowl team.
 
That would be a joke as even the last place, worst NFL team would beat whoever won the National Championship in College.

NFL ready, EXPERIENCED, but not too old, etc, STRONG MEN, vs not as ready, less experienced, less strong, etc, either younger MEN, AND BOYS.

Or MEN VS BOYS.

It would be a 75-0 blow out in favor of even worst NFL Team, let alone a play off, Superbowl team.
you're right, it's literally a joke.
 
you're right, it's literally a joke.
Yes, it was literally a joke. I think even the college championship team would have little chance in an NFL playoff game.

I think Mik is wrong though...I think in a lot of years the college champ could at least hold their own against the worst NFL team. Some years I think they'd win. It'd rarely - if ever - be "a 75-0 blowout."

There's no way to make this work in an NCAA/NFL model, but maybe it could in the NCAA - I think it's pro soccer that has the worst team(s) in the league get demoted to a lower division, and the best teams get promoted to the higher one. I'd be interested in some sort of model that allowed progression from FCS-G5-P5, or whatever that looked like.
 
Yes, it was literally a joke. I think even the college championship team would have little chance in an NFL playoff game.

I think Mik is wrong though...I think in a lot of years the college champ could at least hold their own against the worst NFL team. Some years I think they'd win. It'd rarely - if ever - be "a 75-0 blowout."

There's no way to make this work in an NCAA/NFL model, but maybe it could in the NCAA - I think it's pro soccer that has the worst team(s) in the league get demoted to a lower division, and the best teams get promoted to the higher one. I'd be interested in some sort of model that allowed progression from FCS-G5-P5, or whatever that looked like.

If it was Basketball, you would be right. the best ever unbeaten teams like Duke, UNLV, Kentucky, etc, that also had 3,4,5,6,7 future NBA players on the team, that were mostly Juniors, Seniors, that had players on the USA Olympic team, that had Dream Teamers on their team, etc, those teams could, would have beaten the Worst NBA team.

Why them, basketball and not college football?

1. Because with Basketball you only need about 6,7,8,9,10 players, where football needs 40 to 60 to 80.

It's harder to get that many NFL guys on a college team vs NBA guys on a college team.

2. NBA is more skill, and finesse and show time, and the ability to jump out of gym, be insanely fast, quick. Yes there are Shaq like players, but for the most part, MUSCLE, STRENGTH, being able to physically MANHANDLE is not as important in the NBA, as it is in Football in the trenches, and in hitting, getting hit, etc.

Skillwise(Except QB), WR, RB, CB's, etc, in college can be just as good as the worst teams, guys in the NFL.

But it takes BOTH, skill guys, AND MANHANDLING GUYS for a college team to beat even the WORST NFL team, and that's something that even the Alabama types would have a extremely, almost impossible time doing.

3. The Dream team losing to Foreign teams(the closest comparison to a unbeaten Duke, etc), shows that even the better NBA teams could THEORETICALLY lose to a unbeaten, National Champion Duke.

4. With 3 point shots, and midrange jumpers being so important, if a NBA team goes ICE COLD, 1-30 shooting, and the college team makes 85% of their outside shots, they could beat a NBA team.

That kind of equalizer is not in football, and therefore can't help a Bama beat even a worst NFL team, like in Duke vs NBA team.

If you took the worst NFL team in the 50 to 75 to 100+ year NFL history, that didn't ever win any games etc, and if you took the Best College football team in the history of College football, and if they played each other 10 times, the College team would win 1,2 times out of 10, and the games would be extremely close.

BUT USUALLY, IF you take the yearly College football National Champion, and have them play Each years NFL's worst team 50 times, the BAMA type team would maybe win 1 of the 50 games by 1 point, in the last second, etc.

And in the other 49 games, the BAMA types would lose by 3 points at best, and 35 to 70 points at worst.

And the reason why is if nothing else the worst NFL team's OL, DT's, DE's, LB's, etc, WOULD MANHANDLE DESTROY the BAMA type's OL's, DT's, DE's, LB's, etc.

The QB would be rushed, sacked, pressured all day. the RB's would be STUFFED almost every play, etc.

And the NFL QB would have all day to throw. And the NFL RB would have huge holes to run thru, etc.

Now with Duke types vs the Worst NBA teams, don't have to worry about that kind of stuff. A Duke type could, would, would give one of the worst NBA teams, a bad, worst G league team, a Foreign team, etc, a run for their money, and or just barely beat them in very close games.

What you said is right for basketball NOT for, in football.
 
Yes, it was literally a joke. I think even the college championship team would have little chance in an NFL playoff game.

I think Mik is wrong though...I think in a lot of years the college champ could at least hold their own against the worst NFL team. Some years I think they'd win. It'd rarely - if ever - be "a 75-0 blowout."

There's no way to make this work in an NCAA/NFL model, but maybe it could in the NCAA - I think it's pro soccer that has the worst team(s) in the league get demoted to a lower division, and the best teams get promoted to the higher one. I'd be interested in some sort of model that allowed progression from FCS-G5-P5, or whatever that looked like.
Now, I don't have to read through Mik's post,,,book,,,dissertaion to know that he's right. Detroit,,New York (teams) WHOMEVER you consider the worst would win by 28,30,,,36 points AND perhaps hurt a couple of players in the process.
 
Yes, it was literally a joke. I think even the college championship team would have little chance in an NFL playoff game.

I think Mik is wrong though...I think in a lot of years the college champ could at least hold their own against the worst NFL team. Some years I think they'd win. It'd rarely - if ever - be "a 75-0 blowout."

There's no way to make this work in an NCAA/NFL model, but maybe it could in the NCAA - I think it's pro soccer that has the worst team(s) in the league get demoted to a lower division, and the best teams get promoted to the higher one. I'd be interested in some sort of model that allowed progression from FCS-G5-P5, or whatever that looked like.
Not to get into a big disagreement over a joke, but while I don't think it would be 75-0, even a championship team would get smoked by the worst NFL team. If it was a legendarily bad winless team or had a ton of players injured, it might be more like 21-7, but even a team capable of winning a single game or two in the NFL would smoke the college champ. It's easy to forget how elite the NFL is, especially with some highly visible examples of pedestrian QBs down the depth chart sticking around seemingly forever, giving the impression the NFL isn't loaded with talent. Up and down the rosters, any NFL team even remotely trying to win has players who almost all are about as good as the best starters from a championship team (at that point in the college player's maturity and training, especially), and the difference gets really stark when you go down the roster a bit.
 
It's hilarious, but this debate has been going on forever. I once asked a JC HC if the best JC program given 4 years at the JC level could beat any FBS teams and he said "forget about it" and "I know what you're saying, but forget about it. It ain't gonna happen EVER" I loved the dialogue. The coach is legendary.
 
It's hilarious, but this debate has been going on forever. I once asked a JC HC if the best JC program given 4 years at the JC level could beat any FBS teams and he said "forget about it" and "I know what you're saying, but forget about it. It ain't gonna happen EVER" I loved the dialogue. The coach is legendary.

I think a better comparison, would be, could, would either the best ever HS, JC, Whitworth College, CWU, LCST, etc, beat the year's, season's worst Power 5 team?

No almost never ever. It would be a 50-3, etc, blowout. The P5 players would MANHANDLE the BEST HS, Whitworth, CWU, LCST, JC, etc, players.

In the comparison example, NFL is the P5, the BAMA type National Champion is the best HS, JC, Whitworth, LCST, CWU, etc.

The worst NFL, P5 teams, will almost always beat the best HS, JC, Whitworth, LCST, CWU, etc.

As an example, except Idaho St wasn't the best team at it's level, Paul Wulf's ZERO win team, that lost 69-0 on a regular basis, beat Idaho St about 66- to something small(forgot, but like about 10)

And just like Paul Wulf's team MANHANDLED Idaho St, the worst NFL team would MANHANDLE the, a BAMA type, National Champion, about 50+ to 3.
 
It's hilarious, but this debate has been going on forever. I once asked a JC HC if the best JC program given 4 years at the JC level could beat any FBS teams and he said "forget about it" and "I know what you're saying, but forget about it. It ain't gonna happen EVER" I loved the dialogue. The coach is legendary.
I don’t know, there have been some days in Martin stadium where I though a decent high school team could have come out with a W. Forget about a JC.
 
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Not to get into a big disagreement over a joke, but while I don't think it would be 75-0, even a championship team would get smoked by the worst NFL team. If it was a legendarily bad winless team or had a ton of players injured, it might be more like 21-7, but even a team capable of winning a single game or two in the NFL would smoke the college champ. It's easy to forget how elite the NFL is, especially with some highly visible examples of pedestrian QBs down the depth chart sticking around seemingly forever, giving the impression the NFL isn't loaded with talent. Up and down the rosters, any NFL team even remotely trying to win has players who almost all are about as good as the best starters from a championship team (at that point in the college player's maturity and training, especially), and the difference gets really stark when you go down the roster a bit.


It's hard to say what would happen if Alabama or Georgia in peak form took on a bad NFL team, but they used to have college all-stars play against the NFL champs every year. The last game, played in the rain, had the Steelers up 24-0 in the third quarter before it was cancelled because of weather.

I'm guessing with the development of the NFL over the past 40+ years, it would be an absolute bloodbath most of the time.
 
Whatever this does, it's not like we were coming from a fairly level playing field.

For instance, Georgia had 15 players drafted this year. In one year. Georgia's single-year total is 3x more than WSU has combined on current NFL rosters. In recent years, Alabama, LSU & tOSU have sent 12-14 players per year in the draft.

Wherever this takes us, we were already in a league where Bugattis were allowed to race Pontiac Fieros.
 
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Whatever this does, it's not like we were coming from a fairly level playing field.

For instance, Georgia had 15 players drafted this year. In one year. Georgia's single-year total is 3x more than WSU has combined on current NFL rosters. In recent years, Alabama, LSU & tOSU have sent 12-14 players per year in the draft.

Wherever this takes us, we were already in a league where Bugattis were allowed to race Pontiac Fieros.
There have been times when the Fiero drivers were able to put in upgraded suspension and a supercharged Firebird engine and make a nice sleeper.

This ensures that they'll only be able to buy fuzzy dice and chrome valve covers while the Bugattis get F1 engineers, drivers, and parts for their cars.
 
There have been times when the Fiero drivers were able to put in upgraded suspension and a supercharged Firebird engine and make a nice sleeper.

This ensures that they'll only be able to buy fuzzy dice and chrome valve covers while the Bugattis get F1 engineers, drivers, and parts for their cars.
These are your Boise States and NDSUs. But they are the exception.

In keeping with the analogy, if you don't believe me, throw a rev at the next Fiero you see on the street. $20 says he's a pedophile and not a custom car tuner. Let me know how it goes.
 
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These are your Boise States and NDSUs. But they are the exception.

In keeping with the analogy, if you don't believe me, throw a rev at the next Fiero you see on the street. $20 says he's a pedophile and not a custom car tuner. Let me know how it goes.
Clearly in this analogy the Fiero is UW.

I got it, thanks.
 

It's hard to say what would happen if Alabama or Georgia in peak form took on a bad NFL team, but they used to have college all-stars play against the NFL champs every year. The last game, played in the rain, had the Steelers up 24-0 in the third quarter before it was cancelled because of weather.

I'm guessing with the development of the NFL over the past 40+ years, it would be an absolute bloodbath most of the time.
That’s the only real available comparison, but it was against the super bowl champs, not the league doormat. I think some (not all) of the NC winners could hang with the teams that earn too draft picks.
 

It's hard to say what would happen if Alabama or Georgia in peak form took on a bad NFL team, but they used to have college all-stars play against the NFL champs every year. The last game, played in the rain, had the Steelers up 24-0 in the third quarter before it was cancelled because of weather.

I'm guessing with the development of the NFL over the past 40+ years, it would be an absolute bloodbath most of the time.
The weather and the fact that legs were being broken. The replay shows him being taken out on a stretcher. Had to of hurt.
 
That’s the only real available comparison, but it was against the super bowl champs, not the league doormat. I think some (not all) of the NC winners could hang with the teams that earn too draft picks.

As the article said, the reason why they were able to hang with the NFL, is that back then, they didn't have the FREAKS of nature in the NFL, etc, and that there was little difference, if any between Notre Dame and the NFL, back then.

Even with that back then, while the Notre Dame's back then in the 30's, 40's, 50's were competitive, once in a while won, usually they lost, and sometimes close, sometimes blown out(37-3, etc)

Even if they had played the worst teams back then in the 40's, etc, it would have been tighter, closer, even more competitive, won some more, etc, but even the worst NFL teams back then would have had a slight edge, more wins, etc.

That was BACK THEN.

The article pointed out that for the last 17 years until it was canceled in 1976, the NFL champs WON EVER TIME ALMOST EVERY ONE OF THOSE A BLOW OUT MANHANDLE.

If it had each season's worst NFL teams, during that 17 year span until 1976, the regular blow outs wouldn't have happened, and the Notre Dame, probably would have sometimes won a close game, sometimes lost.

But again back in 1976 the 1976 NFL is nowhere near the 2022 NFL.

Nowadays UNLIKE BACK THEN(1940 to 1976), not only do you have FREAKS of nature in the NFL, but have a 2,3 deep of those Freaks, at every position, that is bigger, stronger, faster, quicker, speedier, etc, then even the best BAMA type players in today's college game.

A BAMA type can have 1,2 NFL Hall of Famers, 1,2,3,4 NFL 1st round draft picks, 1,2,3,4 mid to late draft picks, 1,2,3,4 undrafted free agent NFL players.

Compare to how even each season's worst NFL teams, have about 2,3,4+ Future Hall of Famers, 8 to 16 1st round draft pick NFL players, 12 to 24 mid to late round draft pick NFL players, 16 to 32 undrafted free agent NFL players.

Heck even the worst teams Practice Squad of undrafted free Agents, and other can, and are better then most of BAMA types occasional starter, co starter, rotational platoon players, 2 deeps, etc.

Today's NFL teams have had about 80 years of getting the BEST ATHLETES, FREAKS OF NATURE, profiting from popularity, an increased better playing pool, from which they get, take not only the best, but almost all the good, better, best freak athletes, more money, better science, nutrition, medicine, training, better everything, decades of set up, etc.

If a BAMA, National Champion type, plays each season's Worst NFL team(which usually get about ,2,3,4,5,etc wins), they might win 1 close game every about 10 to 15 to 20+ years. But usually to almost all the time, they would lose, and some to almost most of the time they would get semi blown out to blown out about 40-3

If a BAMA National Champion type plays a PAUL WULF like NFL team, with NO WINS, that not only worst team that season, but worst team that decade, etc, then the BAMA type National Champion, would, might semi probably semi likely win about 25% to 33% to 50% to 67% of the time, in a close game.

Just like P5 teams, usually, almost always would beat, do beat, etc, HS(Exhibition, practice, unofficial), JC(Exhibition, practice, unofficial, fall camp scrimmage, etc), Whitworth College, LCST, CWU(Exhibition, practice, camp, unofficial, scrimmage), Idaho, Idaho St, NIC, EWU, Portland, Portland St(Meaningless Noncon game), teams about 99% of the time, they do lose about 1% of the time.

Also like said before WSU's P5 PAC 12 PAUL WULF's ZERO, 1 win, regularly got blown out, lost 69-0 team DESTROYED Idaho St, about 66-7.

The NFL is the above example is P5, and the BAMA type NATIONAL CHAMP is like the HS, JC, Whitworth, Idaho St, etc, playing, losing to P5/NFL most to almost all the time, except for that 1% that beats Paul Wulf's P5,WSU team, and BAMA type beating a Paul Wulf like zero wins, worst in decade, etc, NFL team.

Pointing to Notre Dame's beating 1935, etc, NFL Champs, to try to prove that a BAMA type National Champion would, could, should, etc, beat a worst NFL team of the season, year, in a competitive game, win or lose, is COMPARING EITHER APPLES TO ORANGES AT BEST, AND AT WORST ORANGES TO POTATOES.

JUST A TOTALLY UNRELIABLE Comparison, example, ignores the differences between 2022 NFL, and 1935 NFL.
 
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