BYU walk ons NIL deal

[BiggsCoug]

All 36 walk ons sign deal that pays equivalent to tuition.

BYU essentially has 121 full scholarship football players.

Tell me more about how this won’t hurt WSU….

 

[roses04]

Not everyone wants to walk on at BYU, nothing against the LDS community as I admire their work ethic and family values, and this NIL deal sounds great. However if I am looking for a fun college experience, and I have a choice between BYU and WSU, I am going to take WSU.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Not everyone wants to walk on at BYU, nothing against the LDS community as I admire their work ethic and family values, and this NIL deal sounds great. However if I am looking for a fun college experience, and I have a choice between BYU and WSU, I am going to take WSU.

Sure. If the decision is based on fun.

If you have a walk on spot at WSU that costs your mom and dad $$$ or a walk on spot at BYU that costs your mom and dad $0 in tuition, now what?

It isn’t a fun based decision for a lot of families. It’s a financial decision.

 

[SaveFerris]

Sure. If the decision is based on fun.

If you have a walk on spot at WSU that costs your mom and dad $$$ or a walk on spot at BYU that costs your mom and dad $0 in tuition, now what?

It isn’t a fun based decision for a lot of families. It’s a financial decision.

Isn't some sort of purity contract required at big blue (balls)?

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Sure. If the decision is based on fun.

If you have a walk on spot at WSU that costs your mom and dad $$$ or a walk on spot at BYU that costs your mom and dad $0 in tuition, now what?

It isn’t a fun based decision for a lot of families. It’s a financial decision.

don't be a dolt.

no one is sending their kids to byu based solely on finances considering they make the kids sign a morality contract.

 

[roses04]

Sure. If the decision is based on fun.

If you have a walk on spot at WSU that costs your mom and dad $$$ or a walk on spot at BYU that costs your mom and dad $0 in tuition, now what?

It isn’t a fun based decision for a lot of families. It’s a financial decision.

Junior college is a cheaper option for a walk one, and perhaps a better choice. I guess I should have clarified "fun", I wasn't talking about drinking a 5th every night, by "Fun" I mean the overall college experience. In college you not only grow academically you grow as a person through personal experiences, I think you learn many more life lessons, when you are free to make choices. There are many restrictions at BYU, that don't allow you to make choices, as one small example you are not allowed to drink coffee or tea on campus of BYU. I think people grow in to more well rounded people when they have the opportunity to make their own choices, and yes you will makes mistakes, but some of the best lessons in life are learned from mistakes.

 

[mikalalas]

Your missing the point. Since BYU did this, it's just a matter of time before other colleges do the same, and then what Biggs said applies.

Why would a kid walk on to WSU, cost his parents money, when they could walk on to a College(Not BYU, not, insert whatever college name that a standard kid would not walk on to, etc), and not cost their parents, themselves money?

It's a financial decision to some, enough kids, that it would affect WSU negatively.

That is what the OP, Biggs means, take BYU out of it.

 

[roses04]

Your missing the point. Since BYU did this, it's just a matter of time before other colleges do the same, and then what Biggs said applies.

Why would a kid walk on to WSU, cost his parents money, when they could walk on to a College(Not BYU, not, insert whatever college name that a standard kid would not walk on to, etc), and not cost their parents, themselves money?

It's a financial decision to some, enough kids, that it would affect WSU negatively.

That is what the OP, Biggs means, take BYU out of it.

Oh get that, but you have now just issued "scholarships" to 36 players that may help your scout team but realistically only 10% at the most will make any significant contribution in a game. 36 kids at $30,000 a year is over a million, I think most schools will find better ways to spend that money. At BYU it makes sense as you get more kids into the program and the church, and on missions, so they aren't just recruiting players, they are recruiting missionaries and new members as well.

If other schools start doing this then it does present a problem. Doubt Alabama will, they have enough 4 and 5 start athletes on 2nd and 3rd team. At Oregon, they will take the million and find a way to funnel it to 8-10 players. At UW will show up in Coffee cups during the recruiting period. So the teams that have money won't do this, or they are already doing it, just not officially, so they aren't the problem. And the teams like WSU with a limited budget of which a majority of teams are, simply can't afford it. So the teams with money that aren't successful are the issue, and there are not a lot of those.

 

[425cougfan]

Roses04 has a good point re BYU being different and having some different factors playing into the desires and abilities of its alumni to fund something like this, but I still think this could really hurt WSU even if it's something much less extreme than all other teams giving out 36 "scholarships." In fact, something less extreme could be more impactful since it would be less likely to get limited through new rules.

E.g., let's say some alumni at UW decided to get UW just, say, 12 more scholarship players (3 walk-ons per year). I appreciate the point that the money probably instead would go to trying to outbid other schools for 4* and 5* players, but I don't think we can be confident in asserting any of this is going to go any particular way, and I have a hard time believing alumni at some of these schools won't do whatever they can to get their teams an advantage. As explored in prior threads, even at current levels, donations at football-obsessed schools are massive piles of money, with something like $1m a year a relative drop in the bucket. (12 would cost less; that number was being thrown around with 36.) Playing 97 scholie players against 85 is a huge advantage, too, and WSU isn't going to be able to do that.

Another way it could play it out is just being a slush fund used on an as-needed basis. Remember when we lost a receiver who blueshirted at USC when Leach was here? Not like we recruit against USC all the time, but what if that $ now is used to give an additional "scholie" at USC (or UW, or wherever) to pick up that once-every-four-years or so player we might actually have a shot at landing against those schools? Something like this might be a more likely way for this to play out.

All these hurdles matter. Even on an even playing field, WSU has massive structural disadvantages. All this crap stacks the deck further. There is no logical basis for concluding otherwise. Only question is how often and how badly these things screw over WSU.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I see this being a situation where a lot of kids end up leaving BYU once they figure out that being a "scholarship" walk-on doesn't mean that you are going to be playing.

 

[roses04]

The whole NIL thing will cause schools in smaller markets, like WSU, challenges, it's just another thing to deal with. And how you deal with effectively will determine your success. I am just saying spending a million a year on walk on "scholarships" probably is not an effective use of funds for WSU, and if others start doing it, it is just another money issue to deal with. I realize it is NIL money but I am sure title IX will have something to say about this.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Junior college is a cheaper option for a walk one, and perhaps a better choice. I guess I should have clarified "fun", I wasn't talking about drinking a 5th every night, by "Fun" I mean the overall college experience. In college you not only grow academically you grow as a person through personal experiences, I think you learn many more life lessons, when you are free to make choices. There are many restrictions at BYU, that don't allow you to make choices, as one small example you are not allowed to drink coffee or tea on campus of BYU. I think people grow in to more well rounded people when they have the opportunity to make their own choices, and yes you will makes mistakes, but some of the best lessons in life are learned from mistakes.

Again, walking on somewhere else costs $$$. Walking on at BYU is full tuition paid. Which one are parents paying the bills more likely to choose?

Option A, $20,000.
Option B, $0.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Oh get that, but you have now just issued "scholarships" to 36 players that may help your scout team but realistically only 10% at the most will make any significant contribution in a game. 36 kids at $30,000 a year is over a million, I think most schools will find better ways to spend that money. At BYU it makes sense as you get more kids into the program and the church, and on missions, so they aren't just recruiting players, they are recruiting missionaries and new members as well.

If other schools start doing this then it does present a problem. Doubt Alabama will, they have enough 4 and 5 start athletes on 2nd and 3rd team. At Oregon, they will take the million and find a way to funnel it to 8-10 players. At UW will show up in Coffee cups during the recruiting period. So the teams that have money won't do this, or they are already doing it, just not officially, so they aren't the problem. And the teams like WSU with a limited budget of which a majority of teams are, simply can't afford it. So the teams with money that aren't successful are the issue, and there are not a lot of those.

It isnt the schools money. People are welcome to spend it as they please.

Dont discount kids being walk ons at one school to keep them away from another school. If SC and UCLA each sign 25 kids on LOI day AND take 25 walk ons each at full tuition from NIL, that’s 100 kids per year out of SoCal staying at 2 schools. How does that help the rest of the conference??? It doesnt. It crushes them. And we arent talking about your average walk on. You will have kids turn down WSU scholarships to stay in SoCal.

Alabama will 100% take all the talent they can get. There is bo downside to Alabama if an outside source wants to pay 3 star kids to be walk ons. Play for Miss State on scholarship? Or walk on at Alabama, tuition paid and win rings. Maybe play your way onto the field? Maybe hit the transfer portal?

Schools that do this will soak up talent.

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

All 36 walk ons sign deal that pays equivalent to tuition.

BYU essentially has 121 full scholarship football players.

Tell me more about how this won’t hurt WSU….

I dunno. Generally I think an instution like BYU that has ass-loads of money lying around through nearly compulsory tithing (something most competitors with WSU won't) is not going to pull away potential WSU recruits. Maybe UTAH would have more of a beef with this than we would. That's all I have to say about that.

 

[BiggsCoug]

I dunno. Generally I think an instution like BYU that has ass-loads of money lying around through nearly compulsory tithing (something most competitors with WSU won't) is not going to pull away potential WSU recruits. Maybe UTAH would have more of a beef with this than we would. That's all I have to say about that.

Ok. How bout UCLA? How bout Oregon? How bout ASU? How bout Fresno State?

We are talking about paying your way or going for free. And you think families are turning down free tuition to go to WSU over BYU? Unless there is some kind of connection to WSU, highly doubt it.

Option A, $20,000 out of your parents pocket or student loans.

Option B, $0 out of your parents pockets or student loans for tuition.

Choose.

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Ok. How bout UCLA? How bout Oregon? How bout ASU? How bout Fresno State?

We are talking about paying your way or going for free. And you think families are turning down free tuition to go to WSU over BYU? Unless there is some kind of connection to WSU, highly doubt it.

Option A, $20,000 out of your parents pocket or student loans.

Option B, $0 out of your parents pockets or student loans for tuition.

Choose.

I see where you're coming from, but opportunity to play and culture of the environment I still think are tipping factors more so. However, I suppose "all things being equal" we are at a big disadvantage. But we always have been. Taihtsat

 

[BiggsCoug]

I see where you're coming from, but opportunity to play and culture of the environment I still think are tipping factors more so. However, I suppose "all things being equal" we are at a big disadvantage. But we always have been. Taihtsat

Kids can always use the portal and find a better fit.

Again.

Option A, $20,000 out of pocket.

Option B, $0 out of pocket.

Which does mom and dad or mom or dad choose?

 

[mikalalas]

It isnt the schools money. People are welcome to spend it as they please.

Dont discount kids being walk ons at one school to keep them away from another school. If SC and UCLA each sign 25 kids on LOI day AND take 25 walk ons each at full tuition from NIL, that’s 100 kids per year out of SoCal staying at 2 schools. How does that help the rest of the conference??? It doesnt. It crushes them. And we arent talking about your average walk on. You will have kids turn down WSU scholarships to stay in SoCal.

Alabama will 100% take all the talent they can get. There is bo downside to Alabama if an outside source wants to pay 3 star kids to be walk ons. Play for Miss State on scholarship? Or walk on at Alabama, tuition paid and win rings. Maybe play your way onto the field? Maybe hit the transfer portal?

Schools that do this will soak up talent.

Biggs Nailed it.

Say there are high end 3 stars, or players on the cusp, borderline, between a 3 star and a 4 star, that a 4 star by 1 recruit ranking service, and a 3 star by another recruit ranking service.

Those are what I call 3.5 star players.

Now Usually USC, UCLA, Oregon, etc, get 4 star, 5 star, 4.5 star players and TURN AWAY 3.5 STAR players, because THEY DONT HAVE THE ROOM, and then WSU, other colleges THEN GET THOSE 3.5 star players.

Now with this a USC, UCLA, Oregon boosters, etc, pay those 3.5 star players to walk on, to not only help them, but TO KEEP WSU AND OTHER COLLEGES FROM OFFERING, GIVING A SCHOLLY TO THESE 3.5 STAR PLAYERS.

And most of those 3.5 star players are going to choose a Walk On SCHOLLY like full paid tuition situation at a USC, etc, over a official SCHOLLY offer from WSU, other college.

This absolutely will hurt WSU and other colleges.

Biggs Nailed it.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Biggs Nailed it.

Say there are high end 3 stars, or players on the cusp, borderline, between a 3 star and a 4 star, that a 4 star by 1 recruit ranking service, and a 3 star by another recruit ranking service.

Those are what I call 3.5 star players.

Now Usually USC, UCLA, Oregon, etc, get 4 star, 5 star, 4.5 star players and TURN AWAY 3.5 STAR players, because THEY DONT HAVE THE ROOM, and then WSU, other colleges THEN GET THOSE 3.5 star players.

Now with this a USC, UCLA, Oregon boosters, etc, pay those 3.5 star players to walk on, to not only help them, but TO KEEP WSU AND OTHER COLLEGES FROM OFFERING, GIVING A SCHOLLY TO THESE 3.5 STAR PLAYERS.

And most of those 3.5 star players are going to choose a Walk On SCHOLLY like full paid tuition situation at a USC, etc, over a official SCHOLLY offer from WSU, other college.

This absolutely will hurt WSU and other colleges.

Biggs Nailed it.

Wait until the entire SEC signs 25 kids on LOI day and then has another 25 kids take NIL deals.

The transfer portal will be interesting to see. Kids will show up and then have to make a decision of staying put and not being on the field or leaving for less $ and getting to play.

 

[mikalalas]

Wait until the entire SEC signs 25 kids on LOI day and then has another 25 kids take NIL deals.

The transfer portal will be interesting to see. Kids will show up and then have to make a decision of staying put and not being on the field or leaving for less $ and getting to play.

The Transfer Portal will be the only chance WSU, others have.

4,5 star SCHOLLY players will get NIL Deals, then some of them won't pan out, and a couple, few, maybe some of those Transfer Portal out to WSU, other colleges.

And 3.5 star players will get Walk on Nil deals, full tuition at MINIMUM, and some of those not pan out, and a couple, few, some of those will Transfer Portal out to WSU, other colleges.

And or course WSU will be a farm system of players leaving to goto blue bloods.

The only chance WSU will have as a P5 football program, is to embrace the farm system, transfer portal, and be like KSU JC/Transfer U.

KSU was very successful at using JC/Transfers.

For WSU to do the same, they will have to invest in that, and have good evaluation, be good JC/Transfers recruiters, etc.

If WSU is able to do that successfully like KSU did, then even with lots of Transfer Portal defections, and being a farm team, they would hopefully be one of the best farm teams, and hopefully be between being a farm team, and those that farm.

Also WSU would have to learn to successfully FARM, get GOOD transfers from teams like FCS national championship teams, Mountain West Teams, etc.

It can be done. KSU did it, and WSU can do it too. And WSU and KSU are both semi somewhat semi similar land grant state universities

But that's the only way WSU will be able to deal with this and be successful.

 

[mikalalas]

The other thing WSU will have to do is be a good coach up, developer team of those that don't pan out and transfer to WSU.

Thats also how WSU will have to make their money, be successful.

If WSU can't get good transfers, and can't develop, Coach up well and succeed where others have failed, then WSU is toast.

 

[mikalalas]

Also WSU/Rolo has to succeed, go 8-4, 9-3, 10-2, NOW, BEFORE NIL, these things that could, would hurt WSU really get running

If WSU/Rolo do that, go 9-3,10-2, goto a NY6 bowl this year, and do similar in following years, then WSU will be able to deal with all the NIL and other crap.

But if not then WSU is TOAST.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Lets count down the ways that chicken little has completely missed the target on this one:

1. This BYU deal is funded by an LDS member and is much of a church thing as it is a NIL thing.
2. The BYU deal was arranged by BYU, which is illegal in many states.
3. The BYU deal is for tuition only for the walk-on players only, which amounts to $5700/ yr, or about $500/mo. Hardly ground breaking money.
4. Based on portal activity and players who are leaving for ZERO money but because they think they'll get PT elsewhere, I think its safe to say that a player who thinks he has a chance at the show would take a position at a school where they'll play (earlier) than ride the pine for a few thousand bucks.
5. We have no idea what the NIL contracts will look like - will a player be locked up to one sponsor or will they be able to take several deals? If I'm a food mfg, I don't want my endorser shilling for other brands.
6. The number of schools who have benefactors who can year in and year out provide full tuition (or more) for multiple players, let alone walk-ons, is small. 'Bama is $30k/ yr for out of state tuition, x 25 is about $1MM dollars. Also, I don't believe this will be considered a charitable donation due to the quid pro quo, so this is no longer a write off. (my best guess, I don't know for sure)
7. What person is going to purchase NIL rights for a walk-on player? What benefit does that serve the purchaser to have a no-name freshman pushing their bowling alley?

 

[BiggsCoug]

Also WSU/Rolo has to succeed, go 8-4, 9-3, 10-2, NOW, BEFORE NIL, these things that could, would hurt WSU really get running

If WSU/Rolo do that, go 9-3,10-2, goto a NY6 bowl this year, and do similar in following years, then WSU will be able to deal with all the NIL and other crap.

But if not then WSU is TOAST.

Even then, money talks. Have some? People listen. Have none? Better have a cool story.

There is no salary cap. Kids can be paid whatever.

There is no roster limit. You can have 200 kids on the team.

There is no process for the worst teams to access the best talent.

The NCAA just let it all go. There is zero competitive balance any more. This is a free for all. Kids may take a pay cut to leave for the NFL!

If there was a league that said to hell with paying any kids, we are offering scholarships and that’s it… it’s the Pac 12.

I am 100% fine with WSU having a reasonable program for kids to pick up some $. I don’t expect kids/WSU to be millionaires.

Also, I am 100% fine with the Pac 12 offering membership to any of the remaining Tier 1 research schools in the West.

I would rather see the league carve out it’s own path/destiny than be slaves to Disney/Espn. Commit to programs in the West, developing West Coast kids and having a conference with academic standards for membership. Dont bother with non league games. Play everyone in the league and call it good.

I dont give two shits about the SEC or any other conference. I dont give a shit about the playoffs or the national title game. Im concerned about WSU, West Coast teams and the Rose Bowl. To hell with everything and everyone else.

 

[mikalalas]

Lets count down the ways that chicken little has completely missed the target on this one:

1. This BYU deal is funded by an LDS member and is much of a church thing as it is a NIL thing.
2. The BYU deal was arranged by BYU, which is illegal in many states.
3. The BYU deal is for tuition only for the walk-on players only, which amounts to $5700/ yr, or about $500/mo. Hardly ground breaking money.
4. Based on portal activity and players who are leaving for ZERO money but because they think they'll get PT elsewhere, I think its safe to say that a player who thinks he has a chance at the show would take a position at a school where they'll play (earlier) than ride the pine for a few thousand bucks.
5. We have no idea what the NIL contracts will look like - will a player be locked up to one sponsor or will they be able to take several deals? If I'm a food mfg, I don't want my endorser shilling for other brands.
6. The number of schools who have benefactors who can year in and year out provide full tuition (or more) for multiple players, let alone walk-ons, is small. 'Bama is $30k/ yr for out of state tuition, x 25 is about $1MM dollars. Also, I don't believe this will be considered a charitable donation due to the quid pro quo, so this is no longer a write off. (my best guess, I don't know for sure)
7. What person is going to purchase NIL rights for a walk-on player? What benefit does that serve the purchaser to have a no-name freshman pushing their bowling alley?

Some points that I agree with and some that I don't agree with

I'll address your last point

Your thinking the type of NIL walk on that has been talked about is a 2 star, 3 star NO NAMER.

It's obvious that you didn't read or get my point about 3.5 stars.

3.5 stars are NOT NO NAMER's.

They are 4 stars by some rankers, and 3 stars by other rankers.

These 3.5 stars do have well known names, just like 4 stars, and 5 stars.

And the only reason they are not getting a official SCHOLLY offer, etc, is because a BAMA type only has room for 4 stars and 5 stars, and has to turn away 3.5 stars.

Those 3.5 stars that BAMA types turn away because of lack of room, are still well known, etc.

Also don't be surprised if a BAMA Type has to turn away a 4 star, or a 4.5 star, because they only have room for 5 stars.

These 3.5 stars, and 4 stars that get turned away by BAMA TYPES, usually get a SCHOLLY offer from another P5 College, whether WSU a P5 College, or some other P6 college.

In fact that is how WSU has gotten a couple, few, some past 4 stars, thanks to USC, BAMA types turning them away, because no more room, etc.

But now BAMA or USC can just arrange a NIL deal to pay for that 3.5 star, 4 star's Tuition, and have them walk on to USC.

You might think a 4 star won't walk on at a BAMA, USC, etc, and before NIL, you would have been right.

BUT NIL makes 4 star walk ONS at BAMA, USC, a possibility.

So they aren't NO NAMERS. Absolutely someone will offer a NIL Deal to get a 3.5 star and a 4 star to Walk on to a BAMA, a USC, and absolutely that 3.5 star, and 4 star will accept that over a Official SCHOLLY offer from WSU.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Some points that I agree with and some that I don't agree with

I'll address your last point

Your thinking the type of NIL walk on that has been talked about is a 2 star, 3 star NO NAMER.

It's obvious that you didn't read or get my point about 3.5 stars.

3.5 stars are NOT NO NAMER's.

They are 4 stars by some rankers, and 3 stars by other rankers.

These 3.5 stars do have well known names, just like 4 stars, and 5 stars.

And the only reason they are not getting a official SCHOLLY offer, etc, is because a BAMA type only has room for 4 stars and 5 stars, and has to turn away 3.5 stars.

Those 3.5 stars that BAMA types turn away because of lack of room, are still well known, etc.

Also don't be surprised if a BAMA Type has to turn away a 4 star, or a 4.5 star, because they only have room for 5 stars.

These 3.5 stars, and 4 stars that get turned away by BAMA TYPES, usually get a SCHOLLY offer from another P5 College, whether WSU a P5 College, or some other P6 college.

In fact that is how WSU has gotten a couple, few, some past 4 stars, thanks to USC, BAMA types turning them away, because no more room, etc.

But now BAMA or USC can just arrange a NIL deal to pay for that 3.5 star, 4 star's Tuition, and have them walk on to USC.

You might think a 4 star won't walk on at a BAMA, USC, etc, and before NIL, you would have been right.

BUT NIL makes 4 star walk ONS at BAMA, USC, a possibility.

So they aren't NO NAMERS. Absolutely someone will offer a NIL Deal to get a 3.5 star and a 4 star to Walk on to a BAMA, a USC, and absolutely that 3.5 star, and 4 star will accept that over a Official SCHOLLY offer from WSU.

Go ahead a write up that long list of "3.5 star" players that are picking Bama over WSU. Specifically, those players who have mutual interest with Bama but also have WSU on their radar.

I'll be waiting.

 

[425cougfan]

Lets count down the ways that chicken little has completely missed the target on this one:

1. This BYU deal is funded by an LDS member and is much of a church thing as it is a NIL thing.
2. The BYU deal was arranged by BYU, which is illegal in many states.
3. The BYU deal is for tuition only for the walk-on players only, which amounts to $5700/ yr, or about $500/mo. Hardly ground breaking money.
4. Based on portal activity and players who are leaving for ZERO money but because they think they'll get PT elsewhere, I think its safe to say that a player who thinks he has a chance at the show would take a position at a school where they'll play (earlier) than ride the pine for a few thousand bucks.
5. We have no idea what the NIL contracts will look like - will a player be locked up to one sponsor or will they be able to take several deals? If I'm a food mfg, I don't want my endorser shilling for other brands.
6. The number of schools who have benefactors who can year in and year out provide full tuition (or more) for multiple players, let alone walk-ons, is small. 'Bama is $30k/ yr for out of state tuition, x 25 is about $1MM dollars. Also, I don't believe this will be considered a charitable donation due to the quid pro quo, so this is no longer a write off. (my best guess, I don't know for sure)
7. What person is going to purchase NIL rights for a walk-on player? What benefit does that serve the purchaser to have a no-name freshman pushing their bowling alley?

There are some fair points here (and I'd add that it appears the only guarantee here is covering tuition for one year, although there are indications it would extend beyond that).

I found very interesting, though, how blatant of a sham it is. BYU players just need to have the logo on their practice (not game) helmets and attend one "experiential event" per year. The walk-ons, who get more money, also have some unnamed promo obligations on social media and to instead attend two such events per year. It was pretty obvious when NIL first was floated that boosters would find ways to create sham pay-for-play schemes, as opposed to NIL just being used for legit commercial promotions (e.g., Max Borghi on a billboard), but I was assured for the past year that this would never happen. But here it is: even walk-ons, who have just about zero actual promotional value, one would have told me a year ago, getting full tuition. At Miami, the guys at the end of the bench are getting paid.

Who knows what we'll see from the SEC and elsewhere. I'm sure other stuff is percolating and will develop over time. It seems pretty obvious to me, though, that the smart schools / boosters with sufficient resources and initiative will stretch their dollars in recruiting value by getting recruits to choose schools based on a high probability of getting money just for being there, and not only if they are a high-profile star at a skill position.

That's a dry description, I realize. My point is that you get more recruiting value IMO, out of the whole team getting money, or all the starters, as opposed to endorsements just going to high-profile stars. Then your school becomes known as the school where everyone (or all starters) are paid, not just a school where, like anywhere else, it's possible to get an endorsement if you are a mega-star. I think that helps with recruiting a lot more than being known as a school where, if a mega-star, you can get a big deal (WSU has no shot, relative to nearly all of its competition and even many G of 5 schools, on this front, either).

If forced to choose, I would rather have WSU known for being the place where all the starters get $10k a year in fun money than the school where the only player to get anything was Max Borghi, even if that was a big $225k deal or something that rivaled deals stars were getting at schools in bigger markets.

Standard caveats: again, not claiming this is the death knell for WSU or anything. Just another card in the deck already stacked in numerous ways against WSU in its quest to do anything meaningful or sustainable.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

There are some fair points here (and I'd add that it appears the only guarantee here is covering tuition for one year, although there are indications it would extend beyond that).

I found very interesting, though, how blatant of a sham it is. BYU players just need to have the logo on their practice (not game) helmets and attend one "experiential event" per year. The walk-ons, who get more money, also have some unnamed promo obligations on social media and to instead attend two such events per year. It was pretty obvious when NIL first was floated that boosters would find ways to create sham pay-for-play schemes, as opposed to NIL just being used for legit commercial promotions (e.g., Max Borghi on a billboard), but I was assured for the past year that this would never happen. But here it is: even walk-ons, who have just about zero actual promotional value, one would have told me a year ago, getting full tuition. At Miami, the guys at the end of the bench are getting paid.

Who knows what we'll see from the SEC and elsewhere. I'm sure other stuff is percolating and will develop over time. It seems pretty obvious to me, though, that the smart schools / boosters with sufficient resources and initiative will stretch their dollars in recruiting value by getting recruits to choose schools based on a high probability of getting money just for being there, and not only if they are a high-profile star at a skill position.

That's a dry description, I realize. My point is that you get more recruiting value IMO, out of the whole team getting money, or all the starters, as opposed to endorsements just going to high-profile stars. Then your school becomes known as the school where everyone (or all starters) are paid, not just a school where, like anywhere else, it's possible to get an endorsement if you are a mega-star. I think that helps with recruiting a lot more than being known as a school where, if a mega-star, you can get a big deal (WSU has no shot, relative to nearly all of its competition and even many G of 5 schools, on this front, either).

If forced to choose, I would rather have WSU known for being the place where all the starters get $10k a year in fun money than the school where the only player to get anything was Max Borghi, even if that was a big $225k deal or something that rivaled deals stars were getting at schools in bigger markets.

Standard caveats: again, not claiming this is the death knell for WSU or anything. Just another card in the deck already stacked in numerous ways against WSU in its quest to do anything meaningful or sustainable.

Because the NCAA refused to get ahead of this, there is no reason to believe that there won't be sham NIL deals pretty much anywhere, simply because there is no consequence for doing so. If I pay MB $1MM for his likeness and never use it, then at this point its simply my loss - there is no fraud for me not getting anything out of it because, to my knowledge, there are no rules governing this.

That being said... I still don't believe there is a secret cabal of big dollar donors who have just been biding their time to pay athletes directly instead of giving to the scholarship fund. What I do see being a very real possibility is athletes doing something like Cameo for $$, or getting influencer dollars from social media. How cool would it be to pay MB $50 or $100 to do your voicemail? IMO, that is where the real money is to be made for most of these kids, by building their brand themselves. NOW they can do videogame streaming on Twitch or Youtube and get paid for it - that kind of stuff.

 

[425cougfan]

Because the NCAA refused to get ahead of this, there is no reason to believe that there won't be sham NIL deals pretty much anywhere, simply because there is no consequence for doing so. If I pay MB $1MM for his likeness and never use it, then at this point its simply my loss - there is no fraud for me not getting anything out of it because, to my knowledge, there are no rules governing this.

That being said... I still don't believe there is a secret cabal of big dollar donors who have just been biding their time to pay athletes directly instead of giving to the scholarship fund. What I do see being a very real possibility is athletes doing something like Cameo for $$, or getting influencer dollars from social media. How cool would it be to pay MB $50 or $100 to do your voicemail? IMO, that is where the real money is to be made for most of these kids, by building their brand themselves. NOW they can do videogame streaming on Twitch or Youtube and get paid for it - that kind of stuff.

Re your last paragraph, that's the crux of the issue. The intent definitely is to cover that and other legitimate endorsements / use of NIL, all the way up to the major deals for Alabama's starting QB and what Thibodeaux is getting from Nike.

As for what actually happens despite the intent, that's the biggest concern. I don't want to rehash it all, but in the context of even a school like WSU getting something like $30m a year in CAF donations, and with "big" schools getting many multiples of that, it's not hard to imagine even a small piece of that being redirected to slush funds and other sham endorsements to get recruits and transfers, directly and indirectly. I wrote a long thing about a month ago going through some assumptions on the percentages and all that that laid out how even at WSU, a tiny portion of non-corporate donations could fund one of these schemes to pay all players. Of course, it would be proportionately more money available at essentially all of WSU's competition. Even a small fraction of what boosters are dedicating to general athletics donations could fund a lot of this stuff, and if I'm a booster, I'd rather have my money go to my school landing elite football or basketball talent, not going in some general fund to pay for a bag of tennis balls.

 

[roses04]

Thanks to BYU we are going to lose all the good walk ons, now we are going to lose out on all the O linemen

Billionaire sponsoring Tech Linemen

This NIL stuff will not stop, it's how we deal with it that matters, Tech is an example of a school with money but a below average record, those are the ones that concern me the most. WE don't go head to head with Alabama, the OSU, Mich, UW, ect. but schools that mostly recruit 3 star kids are our biggest problem.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Thanks to BYU we are going to lose all the good walk ons, now we are going to lose out on all the O linemen

Billionaire sponsoring Tech Linemen

This NIL stuff will not stop, it's how we deal with it that matters, Tech is an example of a school with money but a below average record, those are the ones that concern me the most. WE don't go head to head with Alabama, the OSU, Mich, UW, ect. but schools that mostly recruit 3 star kids are our biggest problem.

There are schools in CA that want 3 star kids badly. Fresno State, San Jose State, San Diego State…. Even UNLV and Nevada Reno….

What happens when kids in CA decide to take the scholarship and the NIL deal to stay close to home??? It isnt just WSU that would be effected. OSU, Utah, the Arizona schools, etc.

WSU needs to find a way to get NIL deals right now. Chun should have seen this coming down the road at least a year ago and gotten in front of it. If you are a Pac 12 school making a living off 3 star kids you must have something in place. You cant send your coaches out to recruit without it. They will be asked questions about it. The last thing you want them to do when asked about NIL deals is pull their pockets out and show kids lint.

 

[roses04]

There are schools in CA that want 3 star kids badly. Fresno State, San Jose State, San Diego State…. Even UNLV and Nevada Reno….

What happens when kids in CA decide to take the scholarship and the NIL deal to stay close to home??? It isnt just WSU that would be effected. OSU, Utah, the Arizona schools, etc.

WSU needs to find a way to get NIL deals right now. Chun should have seen this coming down the road at least a year ago and gotten in front of it. If you are a Pac 12 school making a living off 3 star kids you must have something in place. You cant send your coaches out to recruit without it. They will be asked questions about it. The last thing you want them to do when asked about NIL deals is pull their pockets out and show kids lint.

It took over 10 years to sell the name rights to the stadium/field. It will probably take 10 years to figure out the NIL deals, and by then it's too late. It is a concern, and I think things will get out of control for a year or two and then the NCAA is going to have to set up more rules and guidelines, as the rich will get richer, and those that don't react will be left in the dust. I am sure Chun is working on something, but it's hard to sell your University, team, and players, when your HC coach is an anti vaxxer, I am vaxxed and don't care, but a lot of people do. So one more thing to battle. Maybe they can hook up with some rich anti vaxxers. Are there any?

 

[BiggsCoug]

It took over 10 years to sell the name rights to the stadium/field. It will probably take 10 years to figure out the NIL deals, and by then it's too late. It is a concern, and I think things will get out of control for a year or two and then the NCAA is going to have to set up more rules and guidelines, as the rich will get richer, and those that don't react will be left in the dust. I am sure Chun is working on something, but it's hard to sell your University, team, and players, when your HC coach is an anti vaxxer, I am vaxxed and don't care, but a lot of people do. So one more thing to battle. Maybe they can hook up with some rich anti vaxxers. Are there any?

WSU has literally had 100 years to figure out how to put out a winning football team. They’ve been nothing but befuddled. I have zero faith in Chun or the admin to put together a plan.

There is a reason fired HFC’s take analyst jobs for Saban. They go there to see what “it” looks like. They go there to see how things are supposed to be done. If you never been exposed to certain things or ideas or a particular way of thinking you don’t know what you don’t know.

The NCAA waved the white flag. The only way they can reel this in is to cut scholarships from 85 to ????? AND impose roster limits. You can’t let schools have 85 scholarship kids and another 85 kids on NIL deals.

What makes the NFL competitive is the roster limit, salary cap and worst teams picking first in the draft. The NFL is a tv show with a live audience that sells apparel. Tv shows need drama and suspense to get viewers to tune in. If the BCS leagues are serious about taking down big tv deals, they cant let it be a blowout every week.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Of just as much interest to walk-ons at BYU back in the day was the female/male ratio on campus....

 

[roses04]

ESPN it trying to turn college football it into a 28-32 team league, and those teams will get all the top talent and money. NIL will help them get there sooner, a few other teams with wealthy donors might make it a 40 team league, 8 divisions 5 teams per division, or 8/4 then they have their own playoffs and NC game. Unfortunately i think, In a few years there very likely will be another upper tier in college football, and the odds of WSU being in it are slim. WE might be in the pac 12 for all other sports, I just think football will take on a new look, when you have college coaches making more than NFL coaches, and rich schools with NIL money, it simply shows you all the money out there, and money will dictate the out come.

 

[BiggsCoug]

ESPN it trying to turn college football it into a 28-32 team league, and those teams will get all the top talent and money. NIL will help them get there sooner, a few other teams with wealthy donors might make it a 40 team league, 8 divisions 5 teams per division, or 8/4 then they have their own playoffs and NC game. Unfortunately i think, In a few years there very likely will be another upper tier in college football, and the odds of WSU being in it are slim. WE might be in the pac 12 for all other sports, I just think football will take on a new look, when you have college coaches making more than NFL coaches, and rich schools with NIL money, it simply shows you all the money out there, and money will dictate the out come.

I think there are more schools like WSU than there are not like it. WSU will likely always have Pac 12 teams that want to play them.

I think Disney sees the $ the NFL makes and has a vision of how to make it.

I cheer for Washington State. I dont care who WSU plays or what conference they’re in.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I think there are more schools like WSU than there are not like it. WSU will likely always have Pac 12 teams that want to play them.

I think Disney sees the $ the NFL makes and has a vision of how to make it.

I cheer for Washington State. I dont care who WSU plays or what conference they’re in.

you might be the most miserable SOB I've ever encountered.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

ESPN and Disney are going to be sorely disappointed in the viewership numbers that their super league gets once the small schools get culled. They are going to find out that the fans of the other 80 schools aren't going to embrace their stupid money grab.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

ESPN and Disney are going to be sorely disappointed in the viewership numbers that their super league gets once the small schools get culled. They are going to find out that the fans of the other 80 schools aren't going to embrace their stupid money grab.

It would be easy to simply call this sour grapes, but I suspect you are close to right about this, Flat. I think they are watching too much Premier league soccer and think that will translate to US college football fan bases. I don't see it that way, but it appears from a distance that ESPN thinks that will work here.

 

[425cougfan]

It would be easy to simply call this sour grapes, but I suspect you are close to right about this, Flat. I think they are watching too much Premier league soccer and think that will translate to US college football fan bases. I don't see it that way, but it appears from a distance that ESPN thinks that will work here.

If it is, they're missing on institutional affiliation, big-time. There are some unaffiliated fans who are into college football, but most people have a a connection to the institution. No incremental uptick in the quality of the players or purported level of competition can make me more likely to watch a Penn State - Georgia game (or whatever) than I otherwise would be, and certainly not enough to offset the loss of interest if WSU no longer is in the highest level of competition in the sport.

Also, right now, conference affiliation gets some other schools' fans into the game in a way more than they would be otherwise. E.g., I will watch USC play Penn State, but not because I am swayed by marketing of whoever USC's star players are at the time. I watch them because of the Pac-12 connection. Consolidation into an elite tier seems to ignore this. You're missing out on the fans of all of the Kansas States, WSU, Oregon States, and so on tuning into the Oklahoma or USC games due to that. I don't see why many casual fans who don't really care about college football will suddenly want to tune in just because every week is a "big game" between, say, USC and Georgia, and certainly not at a level that will offset all of these suddenly unaffiliated fans no longer caring. If these become routine matchups, even if each team has more elite talent on the field playing each other, few will care, especially if those teams are 4-5 in the megaconference instead of 7-2 in the current setup.

I think those making these decisions are in a bubble where they're not thinking about pretty obvious stuff like this because they are used to the high ratings games being those matchups between powerhouses or where, in the minds of these people, they think people are watching just because mega-stars are playing.