Cal

[CougPatrol]

Bamba is out tonight. Cougs leading by 1 at halftime.

I love Gueye, but damn. If he has any hope of playing in the NBA, his midrange jumper has to improve.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Bamba is out tonight. Cougs leading by 1 at halftime.

I love Gueye, but damn. If he has any hope of playing in the NBA, his midrange jumper has to improve.

I remember the days when all players would regularly be a available for each game.

It's unreal.

 

[Coug90]

Took awhile but this team looks dangerous. Great movement and spacing, couple of deadly shooters with an NBA level inside presence. Great rotations and team defense. Type of play that looks like it can be consistent, we might get on a good run down the stretch!

 

[Coug90]

Get Guye out and get some ice on that ankle!

 

[CougPatrol]

Took awhile but this team looks dangerous. Great movement and spacing, couple of deadly shooters with an NBA level inside presence. Great rotations and team defense. Type of play that looks like it can be consistent, we might get on a good run down the stretch!

Much better shooting in the 2nd half, but I'm pumping the brakes on the "dangerous" commentary for now. Cal is 3-14 and are playing without their leading scorer.

This win gets us to 3-4 in conference play with a must win vs. last place Stanford this weekend. That'll hopefully get us back to .500 in the league with games at Utah, at Colorado, vs. Arizona, vs. ASU looming.

 

[Coug90]

Much better shooting in the 2nd half, but I'm pumping the brakes on the "dangerous" commentary for now. Cal is 3-14 and are playing without their leading scorer.

This win gets us to 3-4 in conference play with a must win vs. last place Stanford this weekend. That'll hopefully get us back to .500 in the league with games at Utah, at Colorado, vs. Arizona, vs. ASU looming.

Fair enough. Just looks like a confident team playing together with a plan at both ends. Should be in every game if they can keep this up.

 

[CougPatrol]

Fair enough. Just looks like a confident team playing together with a plan at both ends. Should be in every game if they can keep this up.

Oh yea. I agree. They're a tough team already, and if they can get a healthy D Jackson back, it'll help a lot. People like to bag on how Kyle Smith can't coach offense, but I don't agree with that. We have limited athleticism at guard and the wing, but we're scrappy.

 

[mikalalas]

Some interesting information by radio announcers:

According to Ken Pom, WSU is 2nd MOST UNLUCKIEST TEAM IN ALL OF COLLEGE BASKETBALLDOM, IN NATION.(Example a team throws up a miracle half court, full court shot, and banks it in to give the losing team a last second loss).

Another example of this is Cal hit 4 contested deep 3's, one of which was BANKED IN FROM 5 FEET BEHIND 3 POINT LINE.

That's 6 to 9 points Cal should NOT have had, meaning WSU should have had a 7 to 10 point 1st half lead at half time.

And WSU only had 5 turnovers, etc, in 1st half.

In 2nd half Cal stopped butlucking in Contested 3's, while WSU started making their WIDE OPEN, UNCONTESTED 3'S.

WSU DOMINATED CAL IN BOTH HALVES(REMEMBER IF NOT FOR CAL'S BUTLUCKING IN 3'S IN 1ST HALF, WSU WOULD HAVE HAD 6 TO 9 TO 12 POINT 1ST HALF LEAD).

Next interesting info, numbers, stats by announcers:

WSU according to KEN POM, HAD THE 3RD TOUGHEST SCHEDULE IN ALL OF COLLEGE BASKETBALLDOM.

Also according to Ken Pom, WSU has had one of the most injured teams(Thanks to Bamba's most recent injury), in all of college basketballdom.

Also Ken Pom has WSU as 61st best team STATISTICALLY, etc, despite their 7-10(now 8-10) record.

 

[mikalalas]

Oh yea. I agree. They're a tough team already, and if they can get a healthy D Jackson back, it'll help a lot. People like to bag on how Kyle Smith can't coach offense, but I don't agree with that. We have limited athleticism at guard and the wing, but we're scrappy.

Were you watching the EXTREMELY ATHLETIC KYMANY HOUINSOU BEAT THE DEFENDER OFF DRIBBLE, DRIVE, SLASH, PENETRATE, ETC, RIGHT BY A QUICK DEFENDER, AND RISE HIGH ABOVE THE RIM FOR A NBA ATHLETIC, JUMP OUT OF GYM, HAMMER DUNK.

BUT Oh no Rodman, Kymany, Bamba, etc, are not athletic wings, guards, that can't, don't create own shots, etc.

The only guards, wings, of less athleticism, and less ability to create own shot is, are Powell, and Mullins, who, that don't drive, create their shot as much, or not as successfully as Bamba, Kymany, Rodman.

Powell is a outside shooter that dishes out assist, and hits midrange shots.

And Mullins is a outside shooter, that hits midrange shots.

 

[Glad Cougar]

As Kramer on Seinfeld would say, the Cougs were TCB– taking care of business. The first half was a bit irritating, especially at the end of the half when Cal hit 2 straight 3-pointers to get within 1. But what a response coming out of halftime....a 12-0 run essentially put the game on a comfortable setting. Cal is certainly not a good team, but they did beat Colorado & Stanford coming into this game. And while they were missing their excellent freshman (Newell), WSU was missing leading scorer Bamba. Rodman was outstanding and hit the 3-pointers that seemed to crush the Bears' spirit. Nice game by Houinsou after struggling the previous couple of games. And Gueye is a force. Surprised he only had 12 rebounds, but he has such a huge impact on the game. He's improved his vision and passing, which makes him even more dangerous.

Like I've said before, take 'em one game at a time. Now it's a 2-game winning streak, let's go for 3 and not worry about the win-loss record yet.

 

[roses04]

Fans? Don't students go to game these days? showing was pathetic in light of the team's recent wins.

 

[mikalalas]

Fans? Don't students go to game these days? showing was pathetic in light of the team's recent wins.

WSU students, and somewhere between some to most WSU students and other WSU fans are BANDWAGON, FAIR WEATHER fans, especially in basketball.

And they don't follow basketball CLOSELY, and see, remember the LOSSES from 7-10 record, earlier in season, and because of that stop caring, tuning in to the wins, etc.

And they don't care about the injuries, extreme unluckiness, and TOUGHEST schedule, etc, that even Ken Pom has recognized as LEGIT reasons for losses, record.

And because of all the above, that's why Attendance is way down despite the recent wins, the turning things around.

For them to show up, WSU has to have a LONG winning streak, and then they start to slowly trickle in.

They only show up en masse, sellouts etc, when WSU is NIT FINAL FOUR, etc, and then they jump on board the BANDWAGON, EN MASSE.

It happens in football too, but it's worse, happens more in basketball.

Also basketball or college basketball is just not what it used to be, and not as popular, except for hoopfest, and the Spokane WSU fans, would rather support Gonzaga, etc.

Also CAL is not a Arizona, etc. If it was Arizona, fans might show up, but still the attendance probably wouldn't be much better.

Also, fans, people would much rather watch it on TV or listen to it on radio, and check game updates on internet, etc, instead of going to the games.

It's hard enough to overcome all that, and get attendance in football, and even HARDER in basketball.

1000 attendance is just going to be the norm in WSU basketball. That doesn't mean it's ok. It's not ok. That doesn't mean that should just give up on trying to increase attendance by WSU, but extremely low attendance is the reality of WSU basketball. It is what it is.

 

[CougPatrol]

Were you watching the EXTREMELY ATHLETIC KYMANY HOUINSOU BEAT THE DEFENDER OFF DRIBBLE, DRIVE, SLASH, PENETRATE, ETC, RIGHT BY A QUICK DEFENDER, AND RISE HIGH ABOVE THE RIM FOR A NBA ATHLETIC, JUMP OUT OF GYM, HAMMER DUNK.

BUT Oh no Rodman, Kymany, Bamba, etc, are not athletic wings, guards, that can't, don't create own shots, etc.

Rodman is an outstanding player, but he's not an athletic wing. Great garbage man type player. Rebounds, can play inside, hit set shots.

Jakimovski does some nice things, but he is maybe the least athletic kid on the roster. He moves as though he's had massive spinal fusion. Almost no flexibility. If I were his training consultant, I'd get him out of the weight room and into a yoga studio. Dude cannot finish in traffic at all.

Mullins is an outstanding shooter and moves well without the ball. Great knowledge of the game, but he's a massive defensive liability. Very slow afoot.

Powell, like the above mentioned guys, does some really nice things but has significant limitations. Trouble defending, lacks finishing at the rim.

Kymany is young, so it's tough to grade his ceiling. Graded as a 2* prospect out of France. At 6'5, he'll have to significantly improve his range beyond the arc if he's going to become more than just a solid contributor.

All of these kids are great team players and an asset to the program, but if we're going to take a step next season, Smith needs to find an electric scorer/slasher. That's what this team is lacking. Smith has shown the ability to attract quality bigs, but we need a prime-time athletic wing to move the needle.

 

[mikalalas]

Rodman is an outstanding player, but he's not an athletic wing. Great garbage man type player. Rebounds, can play inside, hit set shots.

Jakimovski does some nice things, but he is maybe the least athletic kid on the roster. He moves as though he's had massive spinal fusion. Almost no flexibility. If I were his training consultant, I'd get him out of the weight room and into a yoga studio. Dude cannot finish in traffic at all.

Mullins is an outstanding shooter and moves well without the ball. Great knowledge of the game, but he's a massive defensive liability. Very slow afoot.

Powell, like the above mentioned guys, does some really nice things but has significant limitations. Trouble defending, lacks finishing at the rim.

Kymany is young, so it's tough to grade his ceiling. Graded as a 2* prospect out of France. At 6'5, he'll have to significantly improve his range beyond the arc if he's going to become more than just a solid contributor.

All of these kids are great team players and an asset to the program, but if we're going to take a step next season, Smith needs to find an electric scorer/slasher. That's what this team is lacking. Smith has shown the ability to attract quality bigs, but we need a prime-time athletic wing to move the needle.

Your flat out wrong about Rodman, Kymany, and you either have selective memory or just forget stuff.

Rodman has done some pretty spectacular, extremely athletic drive dunks/lay ups, where he beat a good player defending him off the dribble, and exploded by the player guarding him, and created his own shot, and dunked, etc. You just don't remember or choose not to remember. Also Smith knows that Rodman has done that, and can do that, and has had to get on Rodman for not asserting himself, for being too unselfish, for deferring to teammates too much.

Rodman does mostly only shoot 3's most of time. And he inconsistently doesn't assert himself, defers to teammates, and because of that doesn't consistently create his own shot, etc. But it's not a lack of athleticism, and it's not a lack of ability to do so. He just chooses not to do so more often.

And Kymany has had about 5 to 7 to 10 drive dunks, lay ups, where he beat a player off the dribble, exploded by then, and then dunked it down, and or layed it up and in, a CREATED HIS OWN SHOT, FROM EXTREME ATHLETICISM, TALENT, SKILL, ETC.

And KYMANY DID IT AGAIN VS CAL. He exploded past the guard, guarding him on the perimeter and JUMPED OUT OF GYM ABOVE THE RIM AND DUNKED IT IN. THAT IS CREATING YOUR OWN SHOT. THAT IS HAVING EXTREME ATHLETICISM, THAT IS BEING A ATHLETIC 6-6.5 WING, 3 THAT CAN CREATE OWN SHOT.

Just because you didn't watch that, etc, doesn't mean it didn't happen. It did happen. Just because you either don't remember or choose to not remember, does not mean it didn't happen, as it did happen.

The FACT is that Bamba, Kymany, Rodman, are Wings, 3 spot players that HAVE EXTREME ATHLETICISM, and can, do CREATE THEIR OWN SHOT, etc.

Nothing you say is going to change that. PERIOD. YOUR WRONG. You can call a blue sky red all you want, but that won't change the fact the sky is blue, same applies to what your saying. You can say that Kymany, Rodman are not athletic, can't create their own shot, etc, but that won't change that Kymany, Rodman are ATHLETIC, CAN, DO CREATE THEIR OWN SHOT AS ATHLETIC WINGS.

Now do they need to be MORE CONSISTENT, AND DO IT MORE? YES.

 

[mikalalas]

Rodman is an outstanding player, but he's not an athletic wing. Great garbage man type player. Rebounds, can play inside, hit set shots.

Jakimovski does some nice things, but he is maybe the least athletic kid on the roster. He moves as though he's had massive spinal fusion. Almost no flexibility. If I were his training consultant, I'd get him out of the weight room and into a yoga studio. Dude cannot finish in traffic at all.

Mullins is an outstanding shooter and moves well without the ball. Great knowledge of the game, but he's a massive defensive liability. Very slow afoot.

Powell, like the above mentioned guys, does some really nice things but has significant limitations. Trouble defending, lacks finishing at the rim.

Kymany is young, so it's tough to grade his ceiling. Graded as a 2* prospect out of France. At 6'5, he'll have to significantly improve his range beyond the arc if he's going to become more than just a solid contributor.

All of these kids are great team players and an asset to the program, but if we're going to take a step next season, Smith needs to find an electric scorer/slasher. That's what this team is lacking. Smith has shown the ability to attract quality bigs, but we need a prime-time athletic wing to move the needle.

Also you in addition to you being flat out wrong about Kymany and Rodman, you also don't mention EXTREMELY ATHLETIC HYBRID 1,2,3, 6-5.5, COMBO WING BAMBA, WHO ALSO CREATES HIS OWN SHOT.

Yes Powell, Mullins, Jaki are NOT athletic, do NOT create own shot, etc. I SAID THAT. But you forgot that, just like you forget Kymany and Rodman's DRIVE DUNKS CREATED SHOTS.

But Powell, Mullins, JAKI is COUNTER BALANCED in the ATHLETICISM, CREATE OWN SHOT area, by BAMBA, KYMANY, RODMAN, they(Kymany, Rodman), just need to be more assertive, and stop deferring to teammates, and DO IT MORE OFTEN.

 

[jourdand]

Rodman is a great player who does a lot with what he has to work with but he isn’t exceptionally athletic. I do think his athleticism has been slightly underrated in the past but he is a long way from extremely athletic. Heck Mikalas you said yourself he wasn’t even going to be starter this year.

 

[mikalalas]

Also you in addition to you being flat out wrong about Kymany and Rodman, you also don't mention EXTREMELY ATHLETIC HYBRID 1,2,3, 6-5.5, COMBO WING BAMBA, WHO ALSO CREATES HIS OWN SHOT.

Yes Powell, Mullins, Jaki are NOT athletic, do NOT create own shot, etc. I SAID THAT. But you forgot that, just like you forget Kymany and Rodman's DRIVE DUNKS CREATED SHOTS.

But Powell, Mullins, JAKI is COUNTER BALANCED in the ATHLETICISM, CREATE OWN SHOT area, by BAMBA, KYMANY, RODMAN, they(Kymany, Rodman), just need to be more assertive, and stop deferring to teammates, and DO IT MORE OFTEN.

Kymany's only weaknesses are

1. Being a freshman. 2. Not being used to the American style of game. 3. Not shooting good from outside. 4. Not being good from freethrow line.

Note how lack of athleticism, lack of ability to create own shot is not on list, because he Kymany is EXTREMELY ATHLETIC, AND CAN, DOES CREATE HIS OWN SHOT, AND CAN, DOES DRIVE, SLASH, ATTACK BASKET, etc.

Kymany's strength's:

1. EXTREME ATHLETICISM, QUICKNESS, SPEED, EXPLOSIVENESS

2. The ability to create his own shot, drive, slash, attack basket. He just needs to do it more.

3. Being a 6-5.5/6-6/6-6.5 tall hybrid, combo 1,2,3 WING, GUARD, JUST LIKE BAMBA(except Bamba is not a PG)

4. Passing, dishing out assist(did that a lot in Euroball)

 

[CougPatrol]

Your definition of extreme athleticism and mine are very different. Kymany will be a nice player for us, but he's not going to be a dynamic scorer.

 

[mikalalas]

Your definition of extreme athleticism and mine are very different. Kymany will be a nice player for us, but he's not going to be a dynamic scorer.

A player does not ABSOLUTELY EXPLODE PAST A GUARD GUARDING HIM ON PERIMETER AND THEN JUMP OUT OF GYM, AND HAMMER DUNK IT, LIKE KYMANY DID VS CAL, WITHOUT BEING A EXTREMELY ATHLETIC player that can CREATE HIS OWN shot, etc.

If that's not EXTREME ATHLETICISM, CREATING YOUR OWN SHOT, THEN YOUR DEFINITION OF EXTREME ATHLETICISM, CREATING OWN SHOT, ETC, IS NOT ONLY DIFFERENT, BUT FLAT OUT WRONG.

 

[CougPatrol]

A player does not ABSOLUTELY EXPLODE PAST A GUARD GUARDING HIM ON PERIMETER AND THEN JUMP OUT OF GYM, AND HAMMER DUNK IT, LIKE KYMANY DID VS CAL, WITHOUT BEING A EXTREMELY ATHLETIC player that can CREATE HIS OWN shot, etc.

If that's not EXTREME ATHLETICISM, CREATING YOUR OWN SHOT, THEN YOUR DEFINITION OF EXTREME ATHLETICISM, CREATING OWN SHOT, ETC, IS NOT ONLY DIFFERENT, BUT FLAT OUT WRONG.

Mik, you're not understanding what I'm saying. Of course all of these kids are elite athletes, but we don't have (currently) have any guards or wings in the program who can take the game over. We have some kids who are good set shooters, kids who can drive to the bucket situationally, etc.

We are a mid-tier P12 team. That's nothing to sneeze at, as the P12 is a good basketball league. If we are to make a run at the top-tier, we'll need a kid who can put the team on his back at the 1, 2, or 3 position. That's the way it works.

 

[Coug-Vandal]

I'm not a great fan of one on one basketball but at times it is useful to have a guy to go to down the stretch of games that can either get to the line or score on his own. I'm in agreement with Coug Patrol that we lack that kind of guy. It has cost us games against Baylor, Utah, and UCLA. Had we won all 3 or even 2 of those 3 are NCAA chances would look a lot different right now.

 

[CougPatrol]

I'm not a great fan of one on one basketball but at times it is useful to have a guy to go to down the stretch of games that can either get to the line or score on his own. I'm in agreement with Coug Patrol that we lack that kind of guy. It has cost us games against Baylor, Utah, and UCLA. Had we won all 3 or even 2 of those 3 are NCAA chances would look a lot different right now.

That's absolutely right. If you don't have a goto guy down the stretch, you're in trouble.

 

[mikalalas]

A player does not ABSOLUTELY EXPLODE PAST A GUARD GUARDING HIM ON PERIMETER AND THEN JUMP OUT OF GYM, A HAMMER DUNK IT, LIKE KYMANY DID WITHOUT BEING A EXTREMELY ATHLETIC player that can CREATE HIS OWN shot.

If that's not EXTREME ATHLETICISM, CREATING YOUR OWN SHOT, THEN YOUR DEFINITION OF EXTREME ATHLETICISM, CREATING OWN SHOT, ETC, IS NOT ONLY DIFFERENT, BUT FLAT OUT WRONG.

Mik, you're not understanding what I'm saying. Of course all of these kids are elite athletes, but we don't have (currently) have any guards or wings in the program who can take the game over. We have some kids who are good set shooters, kids who can drive to the bucket situationally, etc.

We are a mid-tier P12 team. That's nothing to sneeze at, as the P12 is a good basketball league. If we are to make a run at the top-tier, we'll need a kid who can put the team on his back at the 1, 2, or 3 position. That's the way it works.

Ok that clarifies things, but technically you weren't saying what you clarified. Technically you were saying that WSU doesn't have any guards, wings, that can drive, create own shots, which is not true.

Also you said that Kymany, and Rodman, CANT, drive, create their shot, which is wrong too.

Now addressing your clarification, I would mostly agree with your assessment, except that Bamba can, does take over games, as he did vs Arizona, and did so despite being injured, as Bamba temporarily took over game down the stretch, and drove, finished at bucket 3 times, despite being injured.

Also it's not that Kymany, Rodman CANT take over a game, THEY JUST DONT.

The reason why Kymany doesn't drive, take over games more, is that he is a FRESHMAN, and he played EURO BALL(Euroball doesn't drive, create own shots, etc, as often as American style). And he is a passer, unselfish, defers to teammates. It takes a little slight ego to assert oneself, that Kymany has to develop. The tools, abilities are there, he just has to learn to use them. If Kymany continues to do that, and learn a good outside shot, and learns to ASSERT himself more, and DRIVE, create own shots, take over game more, then he will be a player that not only can Drive, take over the occasional game, but WILL drive, take over games. If not then he will turn out like Rodman and end up as a UNASSERTIVE, DEFER to teammates, etc, guard,wing.

Rodman is a older, more veteran version of Kymany, who while technically can drive, create shots, take over games, and technically has done that on limited times, DOESNT OFTEN DO IT, because he is UNASSERTIVE, DEFERS TO TEAMMATES, ETC, and has caused Smith to get on Rodman's case big time, and either yell, beg, plead, etc, for Rodman to TAKE THE SHOT, TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE OWN SHOT, DRIVE. Smith knows that Rodman can, does technically do it at limited times, and is upset, frustrated at times with, about Rodman, that Rodman does NOT ASSERT himself more.

That's the biggest weakness the team has is KYMANY and RODMAN NOT ASSERTING THEMSELVES MORE.

The other area I disagree is that KEN POM has WSU as one of the most unluckiest, and injured, with the 3rd toughest schedule, that is the 61st best team despite record.

Basically Ken Pom, and his math, computers, stats, etc, are saying that if take away the extreme unluckiness, injuries, take away 3rd toughest schedule in nation, and replace it with easier schedule, that WSU would have a HELL OF A LOT BETTER RECORD. AND TEAMS WITH A LOT BETTER OF A RECORD LIKE WHAT WSU SHOULD, WOULD HAVE IF NOT FOR ALL THE BS CRAP, ARE USUALLY MORE THEN A MIDDLE PAC 12 PROGRAM.

Smith has built WSU into a 4th,5th place program, and that's what would have happened this season, if take away the bad luck, injuries, 3rd toughest schedule, etc, ACCORDING to the math, stats of the computers, of Ken Pom

Also middle of PAC 12 programs DO NOT KICK ARIZONA'S AZZ, AND DOMINATE THEM, like WSU did, and do not almost beat ALL 4 OF the 4 toughest teams in the Pac 12, that were scheduled in a row, back to back to back to back, as the toughest start of conference schedule in nation.

WSU is the equivalent of the tied for 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, best team in team in PAC 12. WSU is not the 6th, 7th, 8th best or worse team in conference.

The above is IF WSU is HEALTHY, NOT INJURED, NOT EXTREMELY UNLUCKY.

 

[mikalalas]

I'm not a great fan of one on one basketball but at times it is useful to have a guy to go to down the stretch of games that can either get to the line or score on his own. I'm in agreement with Coug Patrol that we lack that kind of guy. It has cost us games against Baylor, Utah, and UCLA. Had we won all 3 or even 2 of those 3 are NCAA chances would look a lot different right now.

Bamba is that guy. He was that guy vs Arizona, and even did it injured.

Kymany, Rodman have the technical ability, and technically do it on extremely limited times on uncommon, semi rare occasions, but THEY DO NOT ASSERT THEMSELVES, AND DEFER TO TEAMMATES, STAND, WATCH TOO MUCH.

Smith has yelled, screamed, begged, pleaded, cajoled Rodman, to TAKE THE SHOT, TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DRIVE, CREATE OWN SHOT, etc.

Smith knows Rodman can and has done that, but just does not assert himself and take shots, drive, create shots, and instead chooses to defer to teammates, and pass to someone else.

Kymany is also like that too.

 

[Coug90]

I'm not a great fan of one on one basketball but at times it is useful to have a guy to go to down the stretch of games that can either get to the line or score on his own. I'm in agreement with Coug Patrol that we lack that kind of guy. It has cost us games against Baylor, Utah, and UCLA. Had we won all 3 or even 2 of those 3 are NCAA chances would look a lot different right now.

Counterpoint. The Lowe, Weaver teams didn’t really have that guy.

I think the bigger thing is for Bamba to realize he’s NOT that guy (sorry Mik I know this counters your point but hear me out). When he plays within the offense it functions so much better. Things were humming last night with him not in there. Minimized turnovers, moved the ball and got quality looks inside and out. Cal couldn’t focus their defense on one thing. I wasn’t able to watch the Zona game but based on what I saw last night imagine it looked similar. Somebody mentioned lack of turnovers against Zona, they really took care of the ball again…think they’ve turned a BIG corner.

 

[mikalalas]

Counterpoint. The Lowe, Weaver teams didn’t really have that guy.

I think the bigger thing is for Bamba to realize he’s NOT that guy (sorry Mik I know this counters your point but hear me out). When he plays within the offense it functions so much better. Things were humming last night with him not in there. Minimized turnovers, moved the ball and got quality looks inside and out. Cal couldn’t focus their defense on one thing. I wasn’t able to watch the Zona game but based on what I saw last night imagine it looked similar. Somebody mentioned lack of turnovers against Zona, they really took care of the ball again…think they’ve turned a BIG corner.

If Bamba had NOT STEPPED UP AND TEMPORARILY TAKEN OVER THE GAME AT ARIZONA DURING THE LAST 3,4,5 MINUTES OF THE GAME, BY MAKING, DOING ABOUT 3,4 SUPER CLUTCH DRIVES, FINISHING AT BASKET, WSU MIGHT PROBABLY HAVE LOST TO ARIZONA, INSTEAD OF WINNING BY 13.

There was a stretch there, Where it got as close as 5, and STRUGGLED MIGHTILY TO SCORE, where DESPERATELY NEEDED SOMEBODY TO STEP UP, BE THE MAN, GOTO GUY, ETC, and BAMBA DELIVERED, WAS THAT GUY.

2,3,4 times Bamba exploded past the guy that was guarding him on the perimeter and made semi contested lay ups, 1 dunk, etc, AT THE RIM, IN CRUNCH TIME, WHILE HE WAS INJURED, AT ARIZONA.

It was the CLUTCHIEST, GRITTIEST, ETC, seen in a long time. He Bamba just WILLED, found a way to score inside, and CARRIED THE TEAM ON HIS BACK TO VICTORY VS ARIZONA IN CLUTCH, CRUNCH TIME.

So I disagree, BAMBA is either THAT GUY, AN OR THAT GUARD, WING, that can do that, OR the closest thing to that on the team.

Right now, Gueye and Bamba and Mullins(for the clutch go-to 3 pointer, etc), are the go-to scorer's.

Problem is, that for WSU to be a top PAC 12 team, they need just 1 more semi go-to scorer and do not have one.

 

[Coug90]

If Bamba had NOT STEPPED UP AND TEMPORARILY TAKEN OVER THE GAME AT ARIZONA DURING THE LAST 3,4,5 MINUTES OF THE GAME, BY MAKING, DOING ABOUT 3,4 SUPER CLUTCH DRIVES, FINISHING AT BASKET, WSU MIGHT PROBABLY HAVE LOST TO ARIZONA, INSTEAD OF WINNING BY 13.

There was a stretch there, Where it got as close as 5, and STRUGGLED MIGHTILY TO SCORE, where DESPERATELY NEEDED SOMEBODY TO STEP UP, BE THE MAN, GOTO GUY, ETC, and BAMBA DELIVERED, WAS THAT GUY.

2,3,4 times Bamba exploded past the guy that was guarding him on the perimeter and made semi contested lay ups, 1 dunk, etc, AT THE RIM, IN CRUNCH TIME, WHILE HE WAS INJURED, AT ARIZONA.

It was the CLUTCHIEST, GRITTIEST, ETC, seen in a long time. He Bamba just WILLED, found a way to score inside, and CARRIED THE TEAM ON HIS BACK TO VICTORY VS ARIZONA IN CLUTCH, CRUNCH TIME.

So I disagree, BAMBA is either THAT GUY, AN OR THAT GUARD, WING, that can do that, OR the closest thing to that on the team.

Right now, Gueye and Bamba and Mullins(for the clutch go-to 3 pointer, etc), are the go-to scorer's.

Problem is, that for WSU to be a top PAC 12 team, they need just 1 more semi go-to scorer and do not have one.

I didn’t see the Zona game so missed all that. Sounded like a very different game, last night was team basketball on both ends of the floor at its best. Hopefully they can capture the best of both worlds when Bamba is back. He certainly can be that guy, it’s just a matter of being consistent and not being a liability trying to do too much. This can be a really good TEAM.

 

[Coug-Vandal]

Counterpoint. The Lowe, Weaver teams didn’t really have that guy.

I think the bigger thing is for Bamba to realize he’s NOT that guy (sorry Mik I know this counters your point but hear me out). When he plays within the offense it functions so much better. Things were humming last night with him not in there. Minimized turnovers, moved the ball and got quality looks inside and out. Cal couldn’t focus their defense on one thing. I wasn’t able to watch the Zona game but based on what I saw last night imagine it looked similar. Somebody mentioned lack of turnovers against Zona, they really took care of the ball again…think they’ve turned a BIG corner.

Yeah--I don't really see this as a counterpoint. I would much prefer to see teams run their offense at clutch time and not devolve into a one on one game. Still, it helps to have someone the other team is really worried about. When they double he can hit the open guy. We have a reasonable number of choices there
(Rodman-Mullins-Powell or Jakimovski). What we lack is someone who can drive--draw the defense and kick it to the open shooter. Mik keeps wanting to say that Bamba can play that role. He did score some clutch baskets against Arizona but he has largely failed in that role in several other games. He pretty much coughed up the Utah game by himself and we got lucky against George Washington when Bamba got the ball knocked away from him and the ball rolled over to Mullins who hit the game winning 3. I'm not trying to pick on Bamba--I root hard for all the Cougs in every game. Still, I strongly believe that the Cougs late game offense has been questionable for the last two years and whether it is Bamba this year or Williams and Flowers last year we have struggled to score late in games when the defensive pressure has been most intense.

 

[mikalalas]

I didn’t see the Zona game so missed all that. Sounded like a very different game, last night was team basketball on both ends of the floor at its best. Hopefully they can capture the best of both worlds when Bamba is back. He certainly can be that guy, it’s just a matter of being consistent and not being a liability trying to do too much. This can be a really good TEAM.

That's the problem you touched on.

It's not that Bamba, and even Kymany, Rodman, CANT drive, create own shots, be semi go to scorer at times, etc.

They can do that, its that they either DO NOT ASSERT THEMSELVES, AND CHOOSE TO DEFER TO TEAMMATES, STAND, WATCH, ETC, OR THEY TRY TO DO TOO MUCH like IKE IROEGBU, did under Bone, and Bonton did, in throwing up wild, circus shots, lay ups at the basket over 1,2,3 defenders, that usually missed, that was usually rebounded by the other team.

Thats why Smith has repeatedly gotten frustrated with Bamba, Rodman, Kymany on, and yelling, begging, pleading, etc, that they ASSERT THEMSELVES, take advantage of the opportunities there, to drive, create their own shot, and take the good midrange, and 3 point shots, etc, if the opportunity for all that is there, and otherwise stay within themselves, let the game come to them, and TAKE THE GOOD SHOTS, and that if drive to basket, and can't finish at rim, because defended, then to pass it out to the wide open 3 point shooter.

Smith is telling them to either be OPPORTUNIST, an or create their own opportunity in good spots, and that if they try and fail, they can pass it back out, an or crash the boards, rebound.

And Smith is trying to temper that with telling them to not to try to do too much.

It's a fine line, delicate balance, between asserting oneself and trying to do too much, and Smith is trying to help them find, follow, go by that.

But right now the problem is more Rodman, Kymany NOT ASSERTING THEMSELVES.

I think I can live with them occasionally trying to do too much. It's more frustrating to see them NOT ASSERTING THEMSELVES, and deferring to teammates, and standing around waiting for someone else to be the scorer, etc.

I want to see more of Bamba and Rodman Scoring 15 to 17 to 19 points in a game and scoring in crunch time, etc, instead of seeing them pass up good shots, opportunities, etc.

 

[mikalalas]

Yeah--I don't really see this as a counterpoint. I would much prefer to see teams run their offense at clutch time and not devolve into a one on one game. Still, it helps to have someone the other team is really worried about. When they double he can hit the open guy. We have a reasonable number of choices there
(Rodman-Mullins-Powell or Jakimovski). What we lack is someone who can drive--draw the defense and kick it to the open shooter. Mik keeps wanting to say that Bamba can play that role. He did score some clutch baskets against Arizona but he has largely failed in that role in several other games. He pretty much coughed up the Utah game by himself and we got lucky against George Washington when Bamba got the ball knocked away from him and the ball rolled over to Mullins who hit the game winning 3. I'm not trying to pick on Bamba--I root hard for all the Cougs in every game. Still, I strongly believe that the Cougs late game offense has been questionable for the last two years and whether it is Bamba this year or Williams and Flowers last year we have struggled to score late in games when the defensive pressure has been most intense.

There has been some games, times when Bamba struggled in earlier games, to score late game, in clutch time.

But that problem is NOT due to Bamba supposedly lacking the ABILITY to beat 1,2 guards on the perimeter, off the dribble 1 on 1, 1 on 2, and drive, get to, finish at basket with a dunk, lay up.

Bamba has done that many times, more then anyone else on team, and has made more SPECTACULAR HIGHLIGHT REEL'S, etc, then anyone else, except Gueye, and except Mullins 51% for the season 3 point making percentage.

Has he CHOKED at times in the CLUTCH, a couple, few, some times? Yes. Has he made stupid decisions, etc, at times down the stretch? Yes.

The thing about Bamba is that while has the ABILITY, and CAN, AND DOES DO What he did vs Arizona in Crunch time, the reason why he has misfired at times, is the following.

1. Last year he scored 7,8 ppg, and was behind a lot of good players in front of him.

2. This is the 1st year that he has been a consistent main starter.

3. All the injuries, and not having Jackson, and having the 3rd toughest schedule in nation, and the extreme bad luck, and the new pieces, etc, all combined together, etc, has made it HARDER for Bamba to continue to improve, develop, INTEGRATE, JELL, etc.

4. Despite the above, all the past trials, misfires, hiccups, etc, has battle tried, tested, BAMBA, this season, and is turning him into, an or turned Bamba into a better player, etc, as that's why BAMBA was able to successfully do what he did versus Arizona, down the stretch, in clutch, crunch time. IF IT HAD NOT BEEN FOR BAMBA, WSU WOULD HAVE LOST TO ARIZONA, INSTEAD OF BEATING ARIZONA BY 13.

So Bamba has developed into a semi somewhat semi go to scorer, that can DRIVE DUNK, CREATE HIS OWN SHOT AT TIMES, AND END UP ON HIGHLIGHT REEL AT TIMES.

It's just that there was legit reasons Bamba's improvement, development slowed, struggled at times.

Ken Pom, others understand this.

That is part of why Ken POM has WSU as 61st best team, and 2nd most Unluckiest team in America, and 3rd toughest schedule.