USC, UCLA to leave Pac-12 for Big Ten in 2024: College sports begins its latest seismic shakeup
A second round of power conference realignment in as many years is officially underway
www.cbssports.com
Can/will the P12 survive?
- Thread starter 12375CAT
- Start date
www.cbssports.com
What next, Utah, CO, Az & ASU bolting for the Big 12? Or does the PAC add other schools ie: SDSU, Fresno State, UNLV? This is going to be a mess!
USC, UCLA to leave Pac-12 for Big Ten in 2024: College sports begins its latest seismic shakeup
A second round of power conference realignment in as many years is officially underway
The Pac-12 may survive in some fashion, but this is the death knell for college football as we know it. UW and Oregon are going to be begging for a seat on the bus and they will likely get one, but at the expense of Rutgers and Northwestern or someone like that.
That leaves UA, ASU, CU, Utah, Stanford, Cal, OSU and WSU in the Pac-12. The Big 12 will probably take a run at peeling off the Arizona schools and Mountain schools to get to 16 teams. If that happens, the remaining schools will probably merge with the Mountain West. Will that conference be called the Mountain West or the Pac-16?
The Pac-12 may take a run at O-State, Texas Tech, KU, KSU, TCU and Iowa State to counter the losses of USC and UCLA and thus killing the Big 12. Who knows.
This seems most plausible. And if that happens, I'd rather the remaining Pac12 schools just merge with the MWC. Either way, I'm probably out and done with this toxic sport, but I'd probably be more likely to watch some Pac12/MWC hybrid than some stupid mashup of Power5 castoffs from all over the country.
If this actually happens, it's hard to see a scenario that leaves WSU in the P-5. The Pac-12 is barely hanging on as it is, losing their only two inarguable national names leaves zero negotiating power for TV rights, and guarantees less income down the road. And, it seems pretty clear that UW and UO will be looking for a seat at the table, and CU is in a natural position to move back to either the Big 10 or 12....maybe with Utah as a pairing.
The remaining PAC teams - WSU, OSU, ASU, UA, Cal, Stanford and even CU & UU, if they don't jump ship - don't have a strong draw. They could try to lure other teams, but there's no incentive for teams like Oklahoma State, Baylor, or even the Kansas schools to jump onto that sinking ship. The only avenue available may be promotion of teams like SDSU, Nevada, UNLV, New Mexico. That provides little competitive quality. Adding BYU and BSU lowers the academic standard. Time to make some choices, but in either of these scenarios, WSU's new conference is not P-5. In fact, the P-5 becomes the P-4.
The other longshot option is trying to bring in the rest of the Big 12 survivors and maybe poach a couple teams somewhere and get the first superconference of 20-24 teams. Same issue is there with a lack of a draw. 24 small-market, mid-level teams don't really mean that much, and pulling off a coup and getting Notre Dame or something involved just means that there's one team that can bully the rest of the conference.
A survival option that's such a longshot it's barely worth mentioning - grab some teams from the ACC and SEC, the best of the Big 12, and anyone who's receptive from the Big 10. Form a coast-to-coast superconference, which maybe doesn't have a big name, but has eyes on the screen from 9AM-midnight every week.
Or, the other possibility - USC and UCLA have no intention of going to the Big 10, but announce this as a ploy to get concessions out of the Pac-12. The same kind of saber-rattling UT did a few years back to get extra conference revenue and full control of the Longhorn network. I doubt that's the case, but it's not impossible.
THe last couple seasons have been tougher to enjoy anyway. With the new player rules creating college free agency, and now with a likely decrease in status...I'm not sure how much longer it will continue to be worth the investment.
The remaining PAC teams - WSU, OSU, ASU, UA, Cal, Stanford and even CU & UU, if they don't jump ship - don't have a strong draw. They could try to lure other teams, but there's no incentive for teams like Oklahoma State, Baylor, or even the Kansas schools to jump onto that sinking ship. The only avenue available may be promotion of teams like SDSU, Nevada, UNLV, New Mexico. That provides little competitive quality. Adding BYU and BSU lowers the academic standard. Time to make some choices, but in either of these scenarios, WSU's new conference is not P-5. In fact, the P-5 becomes the P-4.
The other longshot option is trying to bring in the rest of the Big 12 survivors and maybe poach a couple teams somewhere and get the first superconference of 20-24 teams. Same issue is there with a lack of a draw. 24 small-market, mid-level teams don't really mean that much, and pulling off a coup and getting Notre Dame or something involved just means that there's one team that can bully the rest of the conference.
A survival option that's such a longshot it's barely worth mentioning - grab some teams from the ACC and SEC, the best of the Big 12, and anyone who's receptive from the Big 10. Form a coast-to-coast superconference, which maybe doesn't have a big name, but has eyes on the screen from 9AM-midnight every week.
Or, the other possibility - USC and UCLA have no intention of going to the Big 10, but announce this as a ploy to get concessions out of the Pac-12. The same kind of saber-rattling UT did a few years back to get extra conference revenue and full control of the Longhorn network. I doubt that's the case, but it's not impossible.
THe last couple seasons have been tougher to enjoy anyway. With the new player rules creating college free agency, and now with a likely decrease in status...I'm not sure how much longer it will continue to be worth the investment.
Assuming the Big 10 and SEC are going to be driving the bus, they can easily add or remove teams to their league. My last count there were 64 P5 teams + ND. Not all are likely to get into the B10 and SEC. Those who are left, well, prob form their own league.
There are a lot of programs like WSU that will be looking for games. Im guessing we see WSU playing teams we never saw coming in the next 5-10 years.
Also, it will be interesting to see how some of these schools do in a super league. The days of running up your record against programs with significantly less money/facilities/etc are over. Programs that are used to going 10-2 could be 4-8 in a season because they play all top 25 teams and 0 bottom 25 teams.
As for the state of the P10, the quality of football has to get better.
Look at Bama’s kids, look at Oregon State.
Look at Clemson’s kids, look at Arizona State.
Look at Georgia’s kids, look at WSU.
We can argue stars and depth all day long. Those kids are in the weight room. The level of commitment to being a monster is present at schools that are performing at a high level.
How many P10 schools can you point at and say these kids are just as big and workout just as much as the SEC teams?
There are a lot of programs like WSU that will be looking for games. Im guessing we see WSU playing teams we never saw coming in the next 5-10 years.
Also, it will be interesting to see how some of these schools do in a super league. The days of running up your record against programs with significantly less money/facilities/etc are over. Programs that are used to going 10-2 could be 4-8 in a season because they play all top 25 teams and 0 bottom 25 teams.
As for the state of the P10, the quality of football has to get better.
Look at Bama’s kids, look at Oregon State.
Look at Clemson’s kids, look at Arizona State.
Look at Georgia’s kids, look at WSU.
We can argue stars and depth all day long. Those kids are in the weight room. The level of commitment to being a monster is present at schools that are performing at a high level.
How many P10 schools can you point at and say these kids are just as big and workout just as much as the SEC teams?
Remember what Leon said? UCLA is soft. They will always be soft. Could you imagine both SC and UCLA in November having to head to Columbus or Ann Arbor? They aren't built for it. They have hard enough time coming to Pullman.
Or Wisconsin? Or Nebraska? Or Iowa?
UCLA wasn’t doing well in the P12. They will lose more games in the B10. They are essentially playing games for the $. What is UCLA’s conference record in a 9 game B10 slate? Maybe they will pay up the NIL dollars? Or maybe, maybe the B10 just planted a flag in SoCal recruiting and now UCLA is gonna have to fight to keep kids?
A silver bullet for the WSU's and OSU's could be in the form of the NCAA expanding the football playoff to include the champion and runner up of the new West coast conference.
It's never going to be as exciting as the good ole days, but if we land in a league with Oregon State, Boise State, Cal, Stanford, Colorado State, Utah, the Nevada schools, Fresno State, San Diego State, Hawaii, the Arizona's, maybe Montana, where the conference championship game (in Vegas) earns an NCAA playoff bid, then it would still be exciting for me.
It's never going to be as exciting as the good ole days, but if we land in a league with Oregon State, Boise State, Cal, Stanford, Colorado State, Utah, the Nevada schools, Fresno State, San Diego State, Hawaii, the Arizona's, maybe Montana, where the conference championship game (in Vegas) earns an NCAA playoff bid, then it would still be exciting for me.
I'm no fan of corrupt Larry Scott....but this was inevitable given that money rules over all power structures. The NCAA is inept and seems to have no power and Mark Emmert still makes a six figure salary golfing and doing nothing of value to college athletics.
Yeah...a silver bullet to the head.
PS I can't imagine Cal and Furd sticking around with us. Utah? Probably not either.
SC can get back to their glory days. They'll be fine with that recruiting base in Southern California.
As for UCLA, I'm not so sure.
Cal and Furd may end up leaving, but unlike 98% of big school programs, their President's and Provost's still care about the concept of being a STUDENT-athlete. They also REALLY care about the "other" sports on campus, as much as the big ticket sports.Yeah...a silver bullet to the head.
PS I can't imagine Cal and Furd sticking around with us. Utah? Probably not either.
It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
This is the only hope I have for staying engaged. Personally, I don't give a rip about the SEC or the B10 and probably never will. Just remake a fun, regional, West Coast conference. Make it like the Mac.
Honestly, at this point, I'm kind of envious of the FCS schools. That league seems a helluva lot more fun than whatever this version of Super Conference football is going to be.
Ucla won’t care about winning in the Big 10, as long as they get to keep cashing those Big 10 checks that keeps the cash rolling in. They are a mediocre program in a huge tv market, that ate attached to its big brother/ usc. They basically suck.
yeah, but who wants meritocracy in sports when you can make billions off of arguing who is the best team?
There's something to be said for that. I think I'd enjoy - at some level - a conference that really gave a "NW championship," and then decided the national championship on the field.
Problem that undermines that though, is the transfer rules. Any team that wins that title immediately gets the carcass picked clean by the tier 1 teams. Instead of being able to build sustained success, they get a full reset every year.
We've known for a while that CFB is no longer about the fans. This is just the next step in that evolution, and more people will fall off the wagon.
The Pac12 should add San Diego State, Fresno State, Oklahoma State and Kansas to save the conference. It would be a competitive football and basketball conference.
North
Oregon, OSU, Cal, Stanford, Fresno State*, Kansas*, WSU, Washington
South
Oklahoma State, Colorado, Utah, San Diego State*, ASU, Arizona
The conference would be competitive and the conference wouldn't be that mediocre. SDSU, FSU are solid in basketball and football, and Kansas just won the National Title in basketball, Oklahoma State is solid in all sports. The Rosebowl game would be interesting as well. Thoughts?
North
Oregon, OSU, Cal, Stanford, Fresno State*, Kansas*, WSU, Washington
South
Oklahoma State, Colorado, Utah, San Diego State*, ASU, Arizona
The conference would be competitive and the conference wouldn't be that mediocre. SDSU, FSU are solid in basketball and football, and Kansas just won the National Title in basketball, Oklahoma State is solid in all sports. The Rosebowl game would be interesting as well. Thoughts?
You're right when it comes to football. I was referring to their ability to be competitive in the new "Big 10".
Looking at the MWC. Looks like it could be a pretty fun conference. Keep a an "old school" rivalry with OSU. Boise could be an intense rivalry. Road trips to SD & Hawaii. Utah St, Nevada, Fresno & Air Force have been good. Wyoming would be a fun annual opponent.
I can tell you, I'd watch a helluva more of that than I would the "Super Conference, B1G/SEC only" league.
I can tell you, I'd watch a helluva more of that than I would the "Super Conference, B1G/SEC only" league.
Have you been watching the football national championship game each year?
I have fallen off watching that game in the past few years.
It gets somewhat boring watching Alabama every year and what amounts to "NFL lite" (which I don't watch either).
It just a ploy to do away with equal revenue sharing. The rest of the Pac will come cap in hand and give them what they want. Remember the 2003, 1998 Rose Bowls fondly, we won't be there again in our life times.
Sad, but it is reality. The stacked deck is going to get even more stacked against us.
Sad, but it is reality. The stacked deck is going to get even more stacked against us.
Really dont see UW, Oregon or Stanford staying. If they or 2/3 leave I can see the south head to the B12. The remaining will be a Pac/MW conference that is no longer a P5. If we could merge with the B12 to created a superconfrence of our own (first to 20) then maybe. Not sure how the finniacial work out with a bunch a mediorce team in a superconference.
We have been living on borrowed time for a long time. This country (and most of the world) is run by the golden rule.
Whoever has the most gold, rules.
All we need is for Pullman/Spokane to grow to a size of, say 5 million and we'd be good to go.
What if realignment is for football only? All the other sports stay with their current conference It would make more sense to have regional travel in non revenue sports.
You think Oregon wants to play a weekend baseball series at Rutgers
You think Oregon wants to play a weekend baseball series at Rutgers
How much of the current television audience is going to relate to the super conference thing or their teams playing against those teams. There might be a larger TV audience for true west coast teams playing one another?
If they want to leave, f*ck them. They don't deserve to be in the conference half-assed.
Should this all play out, and U$C and UCLA do leave, my $.02...
USC, UCLA to B1G
UO, UW, Cal, Stanford also to B1G
AZ schools/mountain schools to B12.
OSU and WSU left and programs are shot.
USC, UCLA to B1G
UO, UW, Cal, Stanford also to B1G
AZ schools/mountain schools to B12.
OSU and WSU left and programs are shot.
The Big 12 will work with the media to come up with a dollar figure for the approach to Arizona and Colorado. Oregon and Washington are more than likely going to the Big 10. Colorado, Utah, Stanford, and the Arizona schools have likely called Chicago (Big 10) and they have been placed on hold. Kansas may be in this as well. They are an AAU school with a blue blood BB program that has incredible viewership, and fits perfectly the BIG 10 geographic footprint. This thing can go a number of different ways. Much is up to FOX and ESPN. The odds are (as of this hour) that the Big 12 will get some PAC schools and emerge as the third most powerful league, though a distant third, assuming that some of the cream of the ACC (North Carolina, Virginia, Clemson, Florida St.) get picked off eventually by the SEC. Then there is ND - who knows? Cal does not care, they are currently protesting the use of a religious symbol that is used by Arizona State. They just need to relocate to China. Stanford will be interesting. Washington st., and Oregon st. are probably left out. But.....who in the hell knows.
ND is contractually bound to join the ACC if they join a conference. I have read that the ACC has contracts that tied teams down so hard it would take much more $ than anyone is willing to spend to leave. No one is going anywhere any time soon. I believe the term is to 2036. So that will be interesting to see play out.
If OSU and WSU are the last teams in the league, what is the status of the contract with the Rose Bowl? Or other bowl games?
At what point do OSU and WSU get together and create the Pac in their own vision?
I dont see this as a permanent change. I dont see UofA being included in the super league. Or Utah. Or Colorado. Or any number of teams in the B10, B12 or even the SEC.
It may take a few years to shake out. We may see teams leaving now that learn a hard lesson when playing schools that really wanna play ball every week. *ahem* ucla…
If OSU and WSU are the last teams in the league, what is the status of the contract with the Rose Bowl? Or other bowl games?
At what point do OSU and WSU get together and create the Pac in their own vision?
I dont see this as a permanent change. I dont see UofA being included in the super league. Or Utah. Or Colorado. Or any number of teams in the B10, B12 or even the SEC.
It may take a few years to shake out. We may see teams leaving now that learn a hard lesson when playing schools that really wanna play ball every week. *ahem* ucla…
AAU is a big scam to impart some fake prestige on what are just college brands that have been bought by big money. That's all.
But mostly your comment sounds about right.
PS I'll enjoy seeing these so-called prestigious schools sell their souls to the "lowly" SEC academics. Virginia? Haha! Their blatant hypocrisy will finally be fully exposed. It's all about the Benjamins at the end of the day.
Just take a look at the top 40-50 college football television markets and where the closest major universities are located to get some clues on who is "in" and who is "out." Phil Knight and Nike cam bankroll the Ducks as they have for decades and make sure they are on the list. They have a very strong brand thanks to Phil.
agreed, I also thinkOregon needs to be careful about jumping into big time football every week
If their schedule is Illinois, Northwestern, Minnesota and Nebraska? Fine. They played well against Ohio State. Get their doors blown off twice by Utah. Who knows who shows up to play or coach that team.
Similar threads
