Chris McClellan

[cr8zyncalif]

A bit much to think we are getting a kid who is getting offers from most of the B12. Several of those schools have lower academic admittance requirements than the PAC, or at least did until recently, so unless he wants a big change in scenery the odds are stacked against us. Stillwater is just as much a college town as Pullman (in fact, the residential campus and intramural athletics are as close to WSU as I've seen). However, I enjoyed seeing that he was from Owasso. I have not been in downtown "Owassa" in 30 years. Nice place, nice people. And kids in Oklahoma are similar to kids in Texas, in that they grow up thinking that the Rockies are beautiful. For most of them, that translates to Colorado, but there is a lot of room to promote Pullman as being another version of Rockies-adjacent. We have a couple of Oklahoma offers out, and it is not out of the realm of possibility that we might actually sign one of them. The CB from Tulsa Union (Jayden Rowe) might be better odds, given that we now have another kid from that high school on the roster, but Eastern Oklahoma is a small world; it would not be a huge surprise if the two kids know each other.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

A bit much to think we are getting a kid who is getting offers from most of the B12. Several of those schools have lower academic admittance requirements than the PAC, or at least did until recently, so unless he wants a big change in scenery the odds are stacked against us. Stillwater is just as much a college town as Pullman (in fact, the residential campus and intramural athletics are as close to WSU as I've seen). However, I enjoyed seeing that he was from Owasso. I have not been in downtown "Owassa" in 30 years. Nice place, nice people. And kids in Oklahoma are similar to kids in Texas, in that they grow up thinking that the Rockies are beautiful. For most of them, that translates to Colorado, but there is a lot of room to promote Pullman as being another version of Rockies-adjacent. We have a couple of Oklahoma offers out, and it is not out of the realm of possibility that we might actually sign one of them. The CB from Tulsa Union (Jayden Rowe) might be better odds, given that we now have another kid from that high school on the roster, but Eastern Oklahoma is a small world; it would not be a huge surprise if the two kids know each other.

Lower academic requirements? WSU just announced the suspension of SAT and ACT for admission. So maybe less and less true.

The feelings-based "equity" woke mob is infecting every part of society, especially academia.

It's really disgusting.

 

[FnuLnu]

Lower academic requirements? WSU just announced the suspension of SAT and ACT for admission. So maybe less and less true.

The feelings-based "equity" woke mob is infecting every part of society, especially academia.

It's really disgusting.

But if they are forced into a Zoom-athon because their teacher's union donates to the correct politicians or if they don't have the scratch to go private or if they didn't get on the private school feeder team to get a private school scholly......suspending scores arising from this crapfest probably defensible.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

How Did and Fnu both raise good points. We'll have to see how things settle in a "normal" academic year. This is a nationwide phenomena, not just limited to Wazzu or the PAC, and like most evolving situations there will be some pendulum swinging back and forth before we reach equilibrium. Frankly, I am not sure how that is going to look in 5-10 years. The SAT and ACT both have real problems, but they are what we have. GPA at a given HS is obviously not the measure to depend upon, due to the disparity between High Schools. A thorough interview would be great, but that is not practical, and there aren't enough competent interviewers even if it was practical. We probably need some sort of new model, but that is not my field of expertise. If anybody had any brilliant ideas, the SAT and ACT folks would be all over it, since they are both afraid of losing their business model. Let's see how this conversation is going in a year or two. I suspect that the profit motive (if nothing else) will result in some suggestions from both SAT and ACT, now that they are properly motivated.

 

[CougEd]

Lower academic requirements? WSU just announced the suspension of SAT and ACT for admission. So maybe less and less true.

The feelings-based "equity" woke mob is infecting every part of society, especially academia.

It's really disgusting.

Just out of curiosity, why is this a "woke" issue. I think many people benefit from getting rid of SAT scores, no?

 

[FnuLnu]

Just out of curiosity, why is this a "woke" issue. I think many people benefit from getting rid of SAT scores, no?

You're saying your text scores probably kept you from posting on Dawgman in support of Tyrone Willingham since 2008?

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Just out of curiosity, why is this a "woke" issue. I think many people benefit from getting rid of SAT scores, no?

Is this a serious question or are you completely out of touch with what is going on?

 

[CougPatrol]

Just out of curiosity, why is this a "woke" issue. I think many people benefit from getting rid of SAT scores, no?

No. We benefit from hierarchies of competence.

 

[95coug]

But if they are forced into a Zoom-athon because their teacher's union donates to the correct politicians or if they don't have the scratch to go private or if they didn't get on the private school feeder team to get a private school scholly......suspending scores arising from this crapfest probably defensible.

This was coming well before COVID, that just became the final nudge.

Tests like the SAT and ACT don’t provide a very accurate prediction of which students are going to perform well in college. They’ve been overvalued for years.

Even with variations in grading methods, GPA is a better predictor - a student who finishes high school with a 3.5 was able to sustain reasonable success for 4 years. A kid who got a 1,300 on the SAT only managed to focus for 4 hours, and may have just guessed well, or spent a couple hundred bucks on a test prep course. I’d rather enroll the kid who kept it going for 4 years.

I don’t expect standardized testing to be terribly important in the next several years. I imagine the SAT and ACT will be replaced by something, hard to say if it’ll gain any traction.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

This was coming well before COVID, that just became the final nudge.

Tests like the SAT and ACT don’t provide a very accurate prediction of which students are going to perform well in college. They’ve been overvalued for years.

Even with variations in grading methods, GPA is a better predictor - a student who finishes high school with a 3.5 was able to sustain reasonable success for 4 years. A kid who got a 1,300 on the SAT only managed to focus for 4 hours, and may have just guessed well, or spent a couple hundred bucks on a test prep course. I’d rather enroll the kid who kept it going for 4 years.

I don’t expect standardized testing to be terribly important in the next several years. I imagine the SAT and ACT will be replaced by something, hard to say if it’ll gain any traction.

sounds like a business opportunity.

I work in an industry where people have literally invented certifications and then managed to have them become the standard to which all must submit. like most things, it's cyclical and what's new now will be replaced in a few years.

 

[Coug-Vandal]

This was coming well before COVID, that just became the final nudge.

Tests like the SAT and ACT don’t provide a very accurate prediction of which students are going to perform well in college. They’ve been overvalued for years.

Even with variations in grading methods, GPA is a better predictor - a student who finishes high school with a 3.5 was able to sustain reasonable success for 4 years. A kid who got a 1,300 on the SAT only managed to focus for 4 hours, and may have just guessed well, or spent a couple hundred bucks on a test prep course. I’d rather enroll the kid who kept it going for 4 years.

I don’t expect standardized testing to be terribly important in the next several years. I imagine the SAT and ACT will be replaced by something, hard to say if it’ll gain any traction.

Thanks. Anybody who has been associated with any University's admissions processes has known this for years. Many Universities, long before Covid or the existence of the term "woke", have questioned the importance of ACT/SAT scores. Many have reduced their reliance on them.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

The only thing that sucks about them discontinuing the use of the scores is that my daughter busted her tail to raise her ACT score from a 31 to 33 and about two seconds after she got her letter with her score, they announced that it would no longer be used for admissions.

 

[SDCoug]

The only thing that sucks about them discontinuing the use of the scores is that my daughter busted her tail to raise her ACT score from a 31 to 33 and about two seconds after she got her letter with her score, they announced that it would no longer be used for admissions.

That really sucks. I bet she can still use them to get scholarships, though. So may not be for naught. Worth the question, at least.

 

[Ffffws]

“Wokeness” is pursuing equal outcomes , not equal opportunity. This demotivates achievers and falsely gives underachievers a sense of “achieving”. It elevates feelings over facts.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

“Wokeness” is pursuing equal outcomes , not equal opportunity. This demotivates achievers and falsely gives underachievers a sense of “achieving”. It elevates feelings over facts.

Wokeness is way more complicated than that. A lot of things that are denigrated as "wokeness" have a lot more to do with legitimate problems with attitudes that directly impact people. Too often, we have perpetuated attitudes that lead to people being treated wrongly.

Now, there are times where the pursuit of treating others well gets into silly territory. Worrying if "Jeep Cherokee" offends is stupid. Everyone getting worked up about the Dr. Seuss foundation dropping four books that almost nobody reads is really stupid.....on both sides of the equation.

For me, that anti-wokeness crowd is the group that generally concerns me more. Last week, an announcer at a game in Oklahoma called out a girl's high school team as a bunch of ******s over an open mic because they kneeled during that anthem (he didn't know that the mic was hot). That kind of bullsh!t is why it's important that people keep kneeling. The sad thing is that there were people where I live saying that they wouldn't have been called ******s if they hadn't been kneeling. They came out in defense of the announcer because if people hadn't provoked him, he wouldn't have said it. He eventually blamed it on his diabetes........ Who knew that the 'betes makes you racist?

So, there are times where I think the PC crowd goes over the line, but more often than not, "wokeness" and "cancel culture" is being applied to things that generally don't really need to exist. I don't really care one way or another about the whole Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben thing, but I find it hilarious that conservative a-holes that love to call out libtards as snowflakes sure seem to turn into a bunch of snowflakes when their childhood memories are touched. Who gives a crap what the name on the bottle is? Apparently both "woke" and "unwoke" people because there are bunched up panties everywhere about it.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Wokeness is way more complicated than that. A lot of things that are denigrated as "wokeness" have a lot more to do with legitimate problems with attitudes that directly impact people. Too often, we have perpetuated attitudes that lead to people being treated wrongly.

Now, there are times where the pursuit of treating others well gets into silly territory. Worrying if "Jeep Cherokee" offends is stupid. Everyone getting worked up about the Dr. Seuss foundation dropping four books that almost nobody reads is really stupid.....on both sides of the equation.

For me, that anti-wokeness crowd is the group that generally concerns me more. Last week, an announcer at a game in Oklahoma called out a girl's high school team as a bunch of ******s over an open mic because they kneeled during that anthem (he didn't know that the mic was hot). That kind of bullsh!t is why it's important that people keep kneeling. The sad thing is that there were people where I live saying that they wouldn't have been called ******s if they hadn't been kneeling. They came out in defense of the announcer because if people hadn't provoked him, he wouldn't have said it. He eventually blamed it on his diabetes........ Who knew that the 'betes makes you racist?

So, there are times where I think the PC crowd goes over the line, but more often than not, "wokeness" and "cancel culture" is being applied to things that generally don't really need to exist. I don't really care one way or another about the whole Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben thing, but I find it hilarious that conservative a-holes that love to call out libtards as snowflakes sure seem to turn into a bunch of snowflakes when their childhood memories are touched. Who gives a crap what the name on the bottle is? Apparently both "woke" and "unwoke" people because there are bunched up panties everywhere about it.

kneeling during the anthem does make you b#$%@es, but not because of the reason you think. Kneeling is simply more lazy millenial/Gen Z "activism" not meant to actually drive change but to draw attention to themselves. Just like "real racism", "real activism" is invisible.

I have more respect for Antifa members than I do for kneelers; at least there is action behind their cause as misguided as it is.

 

[CougEd]

You're saying your text scores probably kept you from posting on Dawgman in support of Tyrone Willingham since 2008?

Not sure what a text score is but not sure I have ever posted on dawgman. And I don’t think you win at Stanford and Notre Dame without being a decent coach . Some coaches are bad fits . He apparently was a bad fit .

 

[CougEd]

Is this a serious question or are you completely out of touch with what is going on?

Very serious .

 

[CougEd]

kneeling during the anthem does make you b#$%@es, but not because of the reason you think. Kneeling is simply more lazy millenial/Gen Z "activism" not meant to actually drive change but to draw attention to themselves. Just like "real racism", "real activism" is invisible.

I have more respect for Antifa members than I do for kneelers; at least there is action behind their cause as misguided as it is.

Tell me why the stated reason Kapernik knelt ?

 

[dgibbons]

Wokeness is way more complicated than that. A lot of things that are denigrated as "wokeness" have a lot more to do with legitimate problems with attitudes that directly impact people. Too often, we have perpetuated attitudes that lead to people being treated wrongly.

Now, there are times where the pursuit of treating others well gets into silly territory. Worrying if "Jeep Cherokee" offends is stupid. Everyone getting worked up about the Dr. Seuss foundation dropping four books that almost nobody reads is really stupid.....on both sides of the equation.

For me, that anti-wokeness crowd is the group that generally concerns me more. Last week, an announcer at a game in Oklahoma called out a girl's high school team as a bunch of ******s over an open mic because they kneeled during that anthem (he didn't know that the mic was hot). That kind of bullsh!t is why it's important that people keep kneeling. The sad thing is that there were people where I live saying that they wouldn't have been called ******s if they hadn't been kneeling. They came out in defense of the announcer because if people hadn't provoked him, he wouldn't have said it. He eventually blamed it on his diabetes........ Who knew that the 'betes makes you racist?

So, there are times where I think the PC crowd goes over the line, but more often than not, "wokeness" and "cancel culture" is being applied to things that generally don't really need to exist. I don't really care one way or another about the whole Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben thing, but I find it hilarious that conservative a-holes that love to call out libtards as snowflakes sure seem to turn into a bunch of snowflakes when their childhood memories are touched. Who gives a crap what the name on the bottle is? Apparently both "woke" and "unwoke" people because there are bunched up panties everywhere about it.

I'm curious. Do you think a person should have to pass the bar examination to be a lawyer?

Opinion | Eliminate the Bar Exam for Lawyers

The disadvantaged pay the price for an elitist legal system.

www.wsj.com

 

[CougEd]

“Wokeness” is pursuing equal outcomes , not equal opportunity. This demotivates achievers and falsely gives underachievers a sense of “achieving”. It elevates feelings over facts.

Can you give an example when it comes to SAT and ACT scores?

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I'm curious. Do you think a person should have to pass the bar examination to be a lawyer?

Opinion | Eliminate the Bar Exam for Lawyers

The disadvantaged pay the price for an elitist legal system.

www.wsj.com

that's quite the hit-piece. Too bad the author doesn't have the stones to come right out and call the system racist, because he all but says that directly. And he conveniently ignores the fact that paralegals already perform a lot of the tasks he's saying a vocational school lawyer would do.

And why stop there? Teachers and doctors require additional schooling as well, and their school is just as expensive. And as he claims (without a source), I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands of adept people (not students, btw) who are just being held back from being the best surgeon ever by 'tha man'.

 

[dgibbons]

that's quite the hit-piece. Too bad the author doesn't have the stones to come right out and call the system racist, because he all but says that directly. And he conveniently ignores the fact that paralegals already perform a lot of the tasks he's saying a vocational school lawyer would do.

And why stop there? Teachers and doctors require additional schooling as well, and their school is just as expensive. And as he claims (without a source), I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands of adept people (not students, btw) who are just being held back from being the best surgeon ever by 'tha man'.

How about economists? Why not just let people into the "economist" industry after taking Home-Ec? The market will sort it out.

But at least this guy got a shot at the former president in there. Shows his bona fides to the audience is looking to attract.

 

[etowncoug]

Can you give an example when it comes to SAT and ACT scores?

It's long been a complaint of the woke left (30+ years before "woke" was even a thing) that standardized testing of professional language and math skills is culturally biased. It's the same people that argued income and a credit score for home loans was discriminatory. Admitting subprime students is a horrible idea as the net result will be kids who have no business going to college taking out massive student loans only to stop after a year or two. Universities know this but they'll get a check or two in the meantime. I take this as a sign higher education is in trouble: students who qualify under traditional criteria can't fund the insane spending so they are looking for anyone with a pulse.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

etown, that sounds a lot like 2007 and the mortgage industry funding anyone with a pulse...

 

[CougEd]

etown, that sounds a lot like 2007 and the mortgage industry funding anyone with a pulse...

With one or two small but significant differences.

 

[FnuLnu]

Wokeness is way more complicated than that. A lot of things that are denigrated as "wokeness" have a lot more to do with legitimate problems with attitudes that directly impact people. Too often, we have perpetuated attitudes that lead to people being treated wrongly.

Now, there are times where the pursuit of treating others well gets into silly territory. Worrying if "Jeep Cherokee" offends is stupid. Everyone getting worked up about the Dr. Seuss foundation dropping four books that almost nobody reads is really stupid.....on both sides of the equation.

For me, that anti-wokeness crowd is the group that generally concerns me more. Last week, an announcer at a game in Oklahoma called out a girl's high school team as a bunch of ******s over an open mic because they kneeled during that anthem (he didn't know that the mic was hot). That kind of bullsh!t is why it's important that people keep kneeling. The sad thing is that there were people where I live saying that they wouldn't have been called ******s if they hadn't been kneeling. They came out in defense of the announcer because if people hadn't provoked him, he wouldn't have said it. He eventually blamed it on his diabetes........ Who knew that the 'betes makes you racist?

So, there are times where I think the PC crowd goes over the line, but more often than not, "wokeness" and "cancel culture" is being applied to things that generally don't really need to exist. I don't really care one way or another about the whole Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben thing, but I find it hilarious that conservative a-holes that love to call out libtards as snowflakes sure seem to turn into a bunch of snowflakes when their childhood memories are touched. Who gives a crap what the name on the bottle is? Apparently both "woke" and "unwoke" people because there are bunched up panties everywhere about it.

Was Robert Barber being expelled and deprived of his civil rights due to wokeness or racism?

Recall that Barber was deprived of an attorney during the hearing plus the comments by members of the SCB of Barber "being held in a holding pen"?
The SCB's leader did not live in Pullman where the university is located. Instead lived (lives?) in northern Idaho - a hotbed of white supremacy which was clearly exposed by SCB members during that hearing.

The SCB decision of course was overturned in court and later Robert Barber was found innocent by a Whitman County jury.

 

[CougEd]

It's long been a complaint of the woke left (30+ years before "woke" was even a thing) that standardized testing of professional language and math skills is culturally biased. It's the same people that argued income and a credit score for home loans was discriminatory. Admitting subprime students is a horrible idea as the net result will be kids who have no business going to college taking out massive student loans only to stop after a year or two. Universities know this but they'll get a check or two in the meantime. I take this as a sign higher education is in trouble: students who qualify under traditional criteria can't fund the insane spending so they are looking for anyone with a pulse.

When has it been argued income was ever discriminatory? There has been issues of accused redlining.

You aren't going to throw out the community reinvestment act of 1975?

Oh let me help you out....subprime loans we packaged up so the people who funded them didn't have to hang on to them. Private companies such as Mila, Countrywide BC and Countrywide, Long Beach Mortgage , Greenpoint mortgage passed these mortgages on to teachers retirement funds in Norway for example. Then guess what happened? They wrote derivatives betting these loans will go bad.

I think your scenario is so full of crap. You let kids in who don't have that standardized score...and you think the penalty to "society" is that person may have tons of debt? Doesn't sound like I am harmed by it. Nor you. Nor people in society.

Were people harmed when Leon came to school here, helped us go to the Rose Bowl? Is that some how ok because he didn't have student loans?

Or Mike Utley, or Chad Eaton, Deron Pointer.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Was Robert Barber being expelled and deprived of his civil rights due to wokeness or racism?

Recall that Barber was deprived of an attorney during the hearing plus the comments by members of the SCB of Barber "being held in a holding pen"?
The SCB's leader did not live in Pullman where the university is located. Instead lived (lives?) in northern Idaho - a hotbed of white supremacy which was clearly exposed by SCB members during that hearing.

The SCB decision of course was overturned in court and later Robert Barber was found innocent by a Whitman County jury.

Fuggin' Robert Barber. Let's find someone who didn't beat the sh!t out of someone half their size when we are trying to be "woke".

 

[FnuLnu]

etown, that sounds a lot like 2007 and the mortgage industry funding anyone with a pulse...

Or to get this back onto WSU football, the hiring in November of that same year of a low IQ Aryan with a troubled childhood and local ties but without the requisite Power 5/FBS coaching experience even as an assistant.

 

[CougEd]

Was Robert Barber being expelled and deprived of his civil rights due to wokeness or racism?

Recall that Barber was deprived of an attorney during the hearing plus the comments by members of the SCB of Barber "being held in a holding pen"?
The SCB's leader did not live in Pullman where the university is located. Instead lived (lives?) in northern Idaho - a hotbed of white supremacy which was clearly exposed by SCB members during that hearing.

The SCB decision of course was overturned in court and later Robert Barber was found innocent by a Whitman County jury.

Here is an easy question....what does racism look like to you? Senator Ron Johnson said the people who went into the Capitol were law abiding citizens...and they believed in their country and he was not scared of them. But he would be scared of Antifa and BLM. Is that racist?

 

[CougEd]

It's long been a complaint of the woke left (30+ years before "woke" was even a thing) that standardized testing of professional language and math skills is culturally biased. It's the same people that argued income and a credit score for home loans was discriminatory. Admitting subprime students is a horrible idea as the net result will be kids who have no business going to college taking out massive student loans only to stop after a year or two. Universities know this but they'll get a check or two in the meantime. I take this as a sign higher education is in trouble: students who qualify under traditional criteria can't fund the insane spending so they are looking for anyone with a pulse.

Wait...you think subprime was the imagination of "woke" people wanting to eliminate underwriting guides. Now that is funny. How about people like MILA, OCWEN and others trying to get return. WOKE people I don't believe we behind originators getting another 2 points if they could sell a three year prepayment penalty.

And do you know demographic break down of those who were put on sub prime loans?

 

[etowncoug]

etown, that sounds a lot

Wait...you think subprime was the imagination of "woke" people wanting to eliminate underwriting guides. Now that is funny. How about people like MILA, OCWEN and others trying to get return. WOKE people I don't believe we behind originators getting another 2 points if they could sell a three year prepayment penalty.

And do you know demographic break down of those who were put on sub prime loans?

None of those things caused the collapse, though they did make the collapse much worse when it happened. The issue was an exhaustion in the supply of buyers combined with an uptick in interest rates. They used every gimmick in the book to get buyers off the sidelines and into a home of their own and eventually they ran out.

I think you understate how much effort the government put into getting folks into homes. Politicians loved to talk about the increase in home ownership by Americans, Bush in particular loved to remind everyone about the increase in minority home ownership.

Anyone paying attention knew something wasn't right but they figured home ownership for others was a good thing, their home was appreciating, so who are they to judge. Turns out others recklessness impacts you more than you thought. That's where your beef comes in. The private sector supercharged a government built housing bubble and turned it into a threat to the economic system.

Regarding higher ed, there are a ton of similarities to the housing market. Right now the cost of education is through the roof with no signs of slowing down. It's difficult enough for recent graduates to pay for things like food and rent, let along start families and save for retirement. It's resulted in a very angry generation which feels they've been lied to. Imagine how bad the kids who don't graduate have it. All the debt without at least having a degree.

It's unconscionable that colleges will admit so many students knowing many will be buried in debt for over a decade with a degree which won't boost their earnings potential enough to offset it.

 

[95coug]

It's long been a complaint of the woke left (30+ years before "woke" was even a thing) that standardized testing of professional language and math skills is culturally biased. It's the same people that argued income and a credit score for home loans was discriminatory. Admitting subprime students is a horrible idea as the net result will be kids who have no business going to college taking out massive student loans only to stop after a year or two. Universities know this but they'll get a check or two in the meantime. I take this as a sign higher education is in trouble: students who qualify under traditional criteria can't fund the insane spending so they are looking for anyone with a pulse.

This really shouldn't result in accepting worse students. GPA will still be used as a criteria, and is a better measure anyway. Now admissions offices can put more value on curriculum and experience, instead of having to account for a test score.

 

[95coug]

It's unconscionable that colleges will admit so many students knowing many will be buried in debt for over a decade with a degree which won't boost their earnings potential enough to offset it.

This may end up being an unpopular opinion, but I don't think most schools should offer liberal arts degrees. You can have some classes, but if its not a field a graduate can get a job in, it should be out of the catalog. Fine art, art history, sociology, philosophy....all off the table. I'd even be willing to cut all languages, anthro, and history, aside from what's necessary for a teaching certificate. Those degrees should be the sole province of private schools with specialty programs. Public schools should focus on math & science, and careers that aren't going to lead to fry cooks with a bachelor's degree.

 

[etowncoug]

This really shouldn't result in accepting worse students. GPA will still be used as a criteria, and is a better measure anyway. Now admissions offices can put more value on curriculum and experience, instead of having to account for a test score.

GPA tells a lot more about a students ability to succeed when it's paired with standardized testing.

 

[BiggsCoug]

This may end up being an unpopular opinion, but I don't think most schools should offer liberal arts degrees. You can have some classes, but if its not a field a graduate can get a job in, it should be out of the catalog. Fine art, art history, sociology, philosophy....all off the table. I'd even be willing to cut all languages, anthro, and history, aside from what's necessary for a teaching certificate. Those degrees should be the sole province of private schools with specialty programs. Public schools should focus on math & science, and careers that aren't going to lead to fry cooks with a bachelor's degree.

Colleges are a place for higher education, not job training. If you can take the education you get and make a career out of it, great. If not, it isn't their responsibility to make sure you are employed.

Schools should focus on the majors that have kids enrolling in classes. Just because you deem it worthless doesn't mean it should be closed. If someone wants to pay for an art degree, which in hindsight I should have pursued myself as that is what I do now, take their money.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

This really shouldn't result in accepting worse students. GPA will still be used as a criteria, and is a better measure anyway. Now admissions offices can put more value on curriculum and experience, instead of having to account for a test score.

Can we also put to bed the false scenario being put forth about the deserving genius who couldn't afford the cost of an SAT/ACT?

This may end up being an unpopular opinion, but I don't think most schools should offer liberal arts degrees. You can have some classes, but if its not a field a graduate can get a job in, it should be out of the catalog. Fine art, art history, sociology, philosophy....all off the table. I'd even be willing to cut all languages, anthro, and history, aside from what's necessary for a teaching certificate. Those degrees should be the sole province of private schools with specialty programs. Public schools should focus on math & science, and careers that aren't going to lead to fry cooks with a bachelor's degree.

can't teach liberal politics in Calc class... just sayin'

 

[etowncoug]

Colleges are a place for higher education, not job training. If you can take the education you get and make a career out of it, great. If not, it isn't their responsibility to make sure you are employed.

Schools should focus on the majors that have kids enrolling in classes. Just because you deem it worthless doesn't mean it should be closed. If someone wants to pay for an art degree, which in hindsight I should have pursued myself as that is what I do now, take their money.

Schools should be able to offer whatever degrees they want, but if they are offering worthless degrees students should be ineligible for federal financial aid.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Schools should be able to offer whatever degrees they want, but if they are offering worthless degrees students should be ineligible for federal financial aid.

Who decides what degrees are worthless? There are a lot of jobs that aren't common place that pay well with what you call a worthless degree. There are a lot of people that got degrees in what you and I would call very employable degrees that are unemployed.

If you want to go to a school that gets you a job go to Perry Tech.