Comparing USC's vs. WSU's QB battle

[cr8zyncalif]

There has been a lot of air expended in the conversations within Cougdom about who will start at QB (and how good they will be) for CML this fall. Some are bemoaning our chances and convinced that we won't have a guy who is ready for the PAC, at least until part way through the season. Guys, if you haven't followed USC's QB battle, I can assure you that not only are we not alone...we are also not in the worst shape in our league.

The LA Times has several sports beat writers and a couple of feature writers. One of the better beat writers IMHO is Dylan Hernandez, who is now also doing features (he is not the SC beat writer). His story this morning about the SC QB scrum lauds the true freshman (JT Daniels) and makes it clear that a week or so of practice plus the first live action scrimmage against SC's #1 defense makes it clear to Mr. Hernandez that the freshman is the likely starter. All the usual things are praised; touch, pocket presence, leadership, field vision, yada, yada, yada.

SC's coach (Clay Helton) is trying to pour some cold water on the hype. But Dylan is having none of it. The Times has now anointed Daniels over the two others competing (a RS Fr-Sears and a RS So-Fink). Lest you think that the competition is weak and Daniels merely looks good because the other two are not true contenders, Dylan makes you aware that Sears "..has improved significantly since the spring.." and Fink is also good; the Fink comment is: "..who would be a capable starter at several other universities." Note that the size class of the "other universities" is not noted...and probably not by accidental omission.

We've seen the occasional true freshman QB in the PAC, and some of them have done OK as a freshman. Most of those did significantly better in later years. Virtually all of them admitted (either at the time, or later, or both) that they were doing the best they could, but that the speed of the game was an adjustment and they were fortunate that there was not someone pretty good ahead of them...or they would not be seeing the field as a true FR. Still, when a true FR is very good and better than the guys ahead of him, you play him. It may not be the coach's first choice, but you do what you gotta do.

SC's spring ball made it pretty clear that neither Sears nor Fink were barn burners. In fact, they probably were not campfire burners unless they carried a whole bunch of kindling. The hope was that Daniels would be ready, and now a pretty competent performance against a D that is still disjointed has him clearly in the lead. I am throwing no rocks at the kid. Maybe he will be first team PAC at some point in the future, and maybe he will be a NFL star eventually. But the fact that he is apparently the best QB in camp makes it apparent that some combination of the following applies:

- Neither Sears nor Fink are what SC needs.
- Daniels is good. But he is a true freshman, so even with talent, he has a lot to learn.
- Darnold was a VERY durable QB. He was seldom out of the game. The lack of anyone resembling a competent back up was hidden last season.
- And just maybe...never even hinted at in the Times thus far...SC's D is "not all that". Taking nothing from Daniels, is it just barely possible that one reason that he looked so good in the scrimmage is because the D didn't perform very well? Dylan went out of his way to suggest otherwise, but I have trouble believing that the D is really "game ready" at this point.

I find several parallels with WSU's situation, but also some key differences. The two Cougs who seem to be in the lead for the QB job are past the "adjusting to the speed of the game" point in their careers. That doesn't mean that our true FR might not see the field at some point, but the most prepared true FR I ever saw was Leaf, and it was late season before he was on the field regularly. We also have a coach (Leach) who is absolutely impervious to what the media and alums want or expect...he plays the guys in whom he has confidence and makes no excuses. Helton has a number of strengths, and was probably the right coach at the time that he got the job. But he is much more conciliatory to media, administration, alums, etc...and in fairness, you would have to carry a much bigger personal legend than Helton is ever likely to have in order to resist those pressures at SC. Finally, and this is just my opinion, but I think SC's offense requires a lot more variable decisions from the QB than Leach's offense, and I can't see how SC can start a true FR without dumbing down their offense somewhat, at least for the first half of the season.

And of course, we play SC in the first half of the season, immediately after their road games at Stanford and Texas. Sure, they start with UNLV, but a true FR's games 2 & 3 of his career would not ideally be road trips to play the Trees and Bevo. We certainly don't have to worry about SC pointing at us prior to the week of the game, and there is every chance that the team will consider us to be a much easier game and mentally prepare accordingly.

I'm sort of looking forward to our USC game this year. Should be lots of interesting story threads!

Here is a try at a link; you can probably cut and paste if I foul up the link: http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-jt-daniels-hernandez-20180811-story.html

 

[Loyal Coug]

There has been a lot of air expended in the conversations within Cougdom about who will start at QB (and how good they will be) for CML this fall. Some are bemoaning our chances and convinced that we won't have a guy who is ready for the PAC, at least until part way through the season. Guys, if you haven't followed USC's QB battle, I can assure you that not only are we not alone...we are also not in the worst shape in our league.

The LA Times has several sports beat writers and a couple of feature writers. One of the better beat writers IMHO is Dylan Hernandez, who is now also doing features (he is not the SC beat writer). His story this morning about the SC QB scrum lauds the true freshman (JT Daniels) and makes it clear that a week or so of practice plus the first live action scrimmage against SC's #1 defense makes it clear to Mr. Hernandez that the freshman is the likely starter. All the usual things are praised; touch, pocket presence, leadership, field vision, yada, yada, yada.

SC's coach (Clay Helton) is trying to pour some cold water on the hype. But Dylan is having none of it. The Times has now anointed Daniels over the two others competing (a RS Fr-Sears and a RS So-Fink). Lest you think that the competition is weak and Daniels merely looks good because the other two are not true contenders, Dylan makes you aware that Sears "..has improved significantly since the spring.." and Fink is also good; the Fink comment is: "..who would be a capable starter at several other universities." Note that the size class of the "other universities" is not noted...and probably not by accidental omission.

We've seen the occasional true freshman QB in the PAC, and some of them have done OK as a freshman. Most of those did significantly better in later years. Virtually all of them admitted (either at the time, or later, or both) that they were doing the best they could, but that the speed of the game was an adjustment and they were fortunate that there was not someone pretty good ahead of them...or they would not be seeing the field as a true FR. Still, when a true FR is very good and better than the guys ahead of him, you play him. It may not be the coach's first choice, but you do what you gotta do.

SC's spring ball made it pretty clear that neither Sears nor Fink were barn burners. In fact, they probably were not campfire burners unless they carried a whole bunch of kindling. The hope was that Daniels would be ready, and now a pretty competent performance against a D that is still disjointed has him clearly in the lead. I am throwing no rocks at the kid. Maybe he will be first team PAC at some point in the future, and maybe he will be a NFL star eventually. But the fact that he is apparently the best QB in camp makes it apparent that some combination of the following applies:

- Neither Sears nor Fink are what SC needs.
- Daniels is good. But he is a true freshman, so even with talent, he has a lot to learn.
- Darnold was a VERY durable QB. He was seldom out of the game. The lack of anyone resembling a competent back up was hidden last season.
- And just maybe...never even hinted at in the Times thus far...SC's D is "not all that". Taking nothing from Daniels, is it just barely possible that one reason that he looked so good in the scrimmage is because the D didn't perform very well? Dylan went out of his way to suggest otherwise, but I have trouble believing that the D is really "game ready" at this point.

I find several parallels with WSU's situation, but also some key differences. The two Cougs who seem to be in the lead for the QB job are past the "adjusting to the speed of the game" point in their careers. That doesn't mean that our true FR might not see the field at some point, but the most prepared true FR I ever saw was Leaf, and it was late season before he was on the field regularly. We also have a coach (Leach) who is absolutely impervious to what the media and alums want or expect...he plays the guys in whom he has confidence and makes no excuses. Helton has a number of strengths, and was probably the right coach at the time that he got the job. But he is much more conciliatory to media, administration, alums, etc...and in fairness, you would have to carry a much bigger personal legend than Helton is ever likely to have in order to resist those pressures at SC. Finally, and this is just my opinion, but I think SC's offense requires a lot more variable decisions from the QB than Leach's offense, and I can't see how SC can start a true FR without dumbing down their offense somewhat, at least for the first half of the season.

And of course, we play SC in the first half of the season, immediately after their road games at Stanford and Texas. Sure, they start with UNLV, but a true FR's games 2 & 3 of his career would not ideally be road trips to play the Trees and Bevo. We certainly don't have to worry about SC pointing at us prior to the week of the game, and there is every chance that the team will consider us to be a much easier game and mentally prepare accordingly.

I'm sort of looking forward to our USC game this year. Should be lots of interesting story threads!

Here is a try at a link; you can probably cut and paste if I foul up the link: http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-jt-daniels-hernandez-20180811-story.html

Wait - Leaf was a RS freshman before he saw the field in 1995, right? I believe Bledsoe is the only true freshman to have played at WSU (in my memory). Aside from the 55-10 Apple Cup loss, I don't recall how he did after they put him in.

 

[etowncoug]

There has been a lot of air expended in the conversations within Cougdom about who will start at QB (and how good they will be) for CML this fall. Some are bemoaning our chances and convinced that we won't have a guy who is ready for the PAC, at least until part way through the season. Guys, if you haven't followed USC's QB battle, I can assure you that not only are we not alone...we are also not in the worst shape in our league.

The LA Times has several sports beat writers and a couple of feature writers. One of the better beat writers IMHO is Dylan Hernandez, who is now also doing features (he is not the SC beat writer). His story this morning about the SC QB scrum lauds the true freshman (JT Daniels) and makes it clear that a week or so of practice plus the first live action scrimmage against SC's #1 defense makes it clear to Mr. Hernandez that the freshman is the likely starter. All the usual things are praised; touch, pocket presence, leadership, field vision, yada, yada, yada.

SC's coach (Clay Helton) is trying to pour some cold water on the hype. But Dylan is having none of it. The Times has now anointed Daniels over the two others competing (a RS Fr-Sears and a RS So-Fink). Lest you think that the competition is weak and Daniels merely looks good because the other two are not true contenders, Dylan makes you aware that Sears "..has improved significantly since the spring.." and Fink is also good; the Fink comment is: "..who would be a capable starter at several other universities." Note that the size class of the "other universities" is not noted...and probably not by accidental omission.

We've seen the occasional true freshman QB in the PAC, and some of them have done OK as a freshman. Most of those did significantly better in later years. Virtually all of them admitted (either at the time, or later, or both) that they were doing the best they could, but that the speed of the game was an adjustment and they were fortunate that there was not someone pretty good ahead of them...or they would not be seeing the field as a true FR. Still, when a true FR is very good and better than the guys ahead of him, you play him. It may not be the coach's first choice, but you do what you gotta do.

SC's spring ball made it pretty clear that neither Sears nor Fink were barn burners. In fact, they probably were not campfire burners unless they carried a whole bunch of kindling. The hope was that Daniels would be ready, and now a pretty competent performance against a D that is still disjointed has him clearly in the lead. I am throwing no rocks at the kid. Maybe he will be first team PAC at some point in the future, and maybe he will be a NFL star eventually. But the fact that he is apparently the best QB in camp makes it apparent that some combination of the following applies:

- Neither Sears nor Fink are what SC needs.
- Daniels is good. But he is a true freshman, so even with talent, he has a lot to learn.
- Darnold was a VERY durable QB. He was seldom out of the game. The lack of anyone resembling a competent back up was hidden last season.
- And just maybe...never even hinted at in the Times thus far...SC's D is "not all that". Taking nothing from Daniels, is it just barely possible that one reason that he looked so good in the scrimmage is because the D didn't perform very well? Dylan went out of his way to suggest otherwise, but I have trouble believing that the D is really "game ready" at this point.

I find several parallels with WSU's situation, but also some key differences. The two Cougs who seem to be in the lead for the QB job are past the "adjusting to the speed of the game" point in their careers. That doesn't mean that our true FR might not see the field at some point, but the most prepared true FR I ever saw was Leaf, and it was late season before he was on the field regularly. We also have a coach (Leach) who is absolutely impervious to what the media and alums want or expect...he plays the guys in whom he has confidence and makes no excuses. Helton has a number of strengths, and was probably the right coach at the time that he got the job. But he is much more conciliatory to media, administration, alums, etc...and in fairness, you would have to carry a much bigger personal legend than Helton is ever likely to have in order to resist those pressures at SC. Finally, and this is just my opinion, but I think SC's offense requires a lot more variable decisions from the QB than Leach's offense, and I can't see how SC can start a true FR without dumbing down their offense somewhat, at least for the first half of the season.

And of course, we play SC in the first half of the season, immediately after their road games at Stanford and Texas. Sure, they start with UNLV, but a true FR's games 2 & 3 of his career would not ideally be road trips to play the Trees and Bevo. We certainly don't have to worry about SC pointing at us prior to the week of the game, and there is every chance that the team will consider us to be a much easier game and mentally prepare accordingly.

I'm sort of looking forward to our USC game this year. Should be lots of interesting story threads!

Here is a try at a link; you can probably cut and paste if I foul up the link: http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-jt-daniels-hernandez-20180811-story.html

In my preseason predictions, I took us over USC. Add in the fact we get them on a short week in LA when I expect traffic and construction to result in an empty stadium and the formula is there for an upset.

 

[ttowncoug]

Sc plays Stanford and Texas prior to us. Both of those games are on the road. I agree. This game is ripe for a cougar upset.

 

[CougPatrol]

The one big advantage a blue blood program like USC has over us and most programs is the ability to play between the tackles while their QBs come up to speed. What they lack in QB experience gets offset by a stout OL and 5-Star RBs.

 

[YakiCoug]

Wait - Leaf was a RS freshman before he saw the field in 1995, right? I believe Bledsoe is the only true freshman to have played at WSU (in my memory). Aside from the 55-10 Apple Cup loss, I don't recall how he did after they put him in.

The mutts beat him up pretty badly.

 

[etowncoug]

The one big advantage a blue blood program like USC has over us and most programs is the ability to play between the tackles while their QBs come up to speed. What they lack in QB experience gets offset by a stout OL and 5-Star RBs.

SC hasnt been dominant between the tackles in recent years. Especially early in the season.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Wait - Leaf was a RS freshman before he saw the field in 1995, right? I believe Bledsoe is the only true freshman to have played at WSU (in my memory). Aside from the 55-10 Apple Cup loss, I don't recall how he did after they put him in.

The mutts beat him up pretty badly.

I meant how he did after they put him in as starter a couple of games prior to Apple Cup. But agree, mutts beat him up pretty good. I was there. I remember one series when we were backed up against the now FOB end zone - that was when they put all the mutts in that endzone. Quite a few seats there back then. We were way behind anyway, but the damn mutts were so loud Bledsoe could barely run a play. Hated that.

 

[avabob1]

Not so much about a USC being so dominant, rather they wont send a frosh out to put the ball on the air 45 times in their system. Still doesnt mean the QB is a position of strength when going with a true frosh.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Loyal, I defer to your superior memory (I am not joking; mine is definitely slipping) re: Leaf being a RS Fr. I could have sworn that he was a true frosh, but I have no problem with being corrected.

etown, I wasn't brave enough to take the Cougs over SC, but I have to agree with you and ttown. This has "upset script" written all over it. Doesn't mean that it will happen, but it would be hard to set it up any better.

Patrol, your point is valid, but etown is right....that is almost a half generation or so ago. There is nobody on SC's current team that has seen a truly dominant O line in their colors, unless it was when they were in junior high.

Yaki & Loyal are right; Bledsoe paid for his FR time on the field. I did not include him, because my memory was that Leaf was on the field as a true Frosh, at least for the Apple Cup.

And Bob, you are right. Regardless of which QB gets the job, if he has to pass even 20 times a game, SC's game plan is in trouble.

 

[BiggsCoug]

If I were coaching SC I’d go one of two directions with the offense. Either put the ball up 40 times and run it 20 times in a fun and gun, cause you can get the athletes to do it.... or..... run zone the way Wisconsin has done. Literally get 6’6” or taller OL and just run those long arms and legs at people in a 1 back set. Then deep with 4 receivers/TEs or play action them to death.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Loyal, I defer to your superior memory (I am not joking; mine is definitely slipping) re: Leaf being a RS Fr. I could have sworn that he was a true frosh, but I have no problem with being corrected.

etown, I wasn't brave enough to take the Cougs over SC, but I have to agree with you and ttown. This has "upset script" written all over it. Doesn't mean that it will happen, but it would be hard to set it up any better.

Patrol, your point is valid, but etown is right....that is almost a half generation or so ago. There is nobody on SC's current team that has seen a truly dominant O line in their colors, unless it was when they were in junior high.

Yaki & Loyal are right; Bledsoe paid for his FR time on the field. I did not include him, because my memory was that Leaf was on the field as a true Frosh, at least for the Apple Cup.

And Bob, you are right. Regardless of which QB gets the job, if he has to pass even 20 times a game, SC's game plan is in trouble.

Post of the year! Now that I have you squared away, time to work on the other non-believers on this site.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Biggs, I think the play action approach may make sense. Daniels is relatively mobile and at least one of his backups could run if required. Since I don't see their O line as dominant (pretty good, but not dominant), they will need something to stress the D...and play action is a possibility. They didn't do much of that in the spring, but that doesn't mean that they won't introduce it against Stanford to try to throw a curve to the Trees.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Biggs, I think the play action approach may make sense. Daniels is relatively mobile and at least one of his backups could run if required. Since I don't see their O line as dominant (pretty good, but not dominant), they will need something to stress the D...and play action is a possibility. They didn't do much of that in the spring, but that doesn't mean that they won't introduce it against Stanford to try to throw a curve to the Trees.

It doesnt even have to be that much of your passing game. Maybe 6 play action and 6 three step drop passes to get your QB comfortable. There is a lot SC should be doing. No reason why they shouldnt be top 5 every year other then the admin just screwed up the hire.