Do Cougars pull for the P12 @ the Omaha final 2?
- Thread starter 12375CAT
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I'll be pulling for OSU. I would have rooted against UW.
I have to agree with this. And maybe take it even further.
Granted, their football program had a run of futility over a thirty-year stretch at one point. But then they had a real run of success under Riley-Erickson-Riley and a LARGE number of their fans forgot what it was like to be "the underdog", becoming as obnoxious as any Duck or fuskie around.
Some of that has lingered and some of that has transferred to their highly successful baseball program. We tailgated with some of their baseball folks the last time we played them in football, in Corvallis. Real nice folks with great hospitality. But also a real solid whiff of arrogance, when it came to their athletic programs, vis-a-vis ours.
And this wasn't the first, or only, time I had experienced this in Corvallis. I have driven down to the Coug/Beavo football game for more years than I care to remember.
In the "olden days" we were pretty much on even terms, success-wise. They maybe had a slight bit of an edge on us, way back when? Then they went through their period of gloom and doom (thirty years without a winning season) and we had a pretty good record against them, in football and baseball, during that period. When Riley/Erickson basically brought their program back from the dead to some pretty good heights, it seemed like a very many of their fans immediately forgot their roots.
And, for a significant number of their fans that I have run across, it remains that way. It's too bad that's the case. Because I know there are a lot more of them who are down to earth "good fans", excited about their successes but not rubbing other folks' noses in it, even when their football program has come back to earth.
All schools have many types of fans. Some have more of the arrogant jerk types than others. Most of how a guy feels about one school or another depends on which type of opposing fan you have had the "luck" of experiencing.
Purely for me, I can pull for them on one level and root against them on another level, in this Championship series. It's a crazy mixed up world. Or I'm a crazy mixed up guy. Or both.
Normally, I'm a friend of OSU. But with the sexual assault stuff going on down there... Nope. Won't root for that sport, for that program, specifically. I'm a baseball guy, to the hilt. But I haven't watched the CWS this year. Watched some of the playoff games but not once watched an OSU game.
They have completely sold their soul to the sexual predator in order to win games. That. Is. Gross. Even if he's "learned his lesson", whatever that means in regards to molesting a 6 year old RELATIVE, I just can't.
They have completely sold their soul to the sexual predator in order to win games. That. Is. Gross. Even if he's "learned his lesson", whatever that means in regards to molesting a 6 year old RELATIVE, I just can't.
This is a complicated situation, which was touched on in another recent thread. As the father of a now-grown daughter, repugnance was my first reaction, and that has not gone away entirely at all. But Hiemlich's denial that the incident(s) happened gave me a little pause.
Recall that OSU knew nothing about Luke's past until some Oregonian reporter stumbled across it last year, mere months from completion of his lengthy probation and expungement of his record. Luke then withdrew from participating in the CWS. So what was OSU to do then? The guy had no conviction, no record, and had paid his penalty, as far as the legal system goes. Letting him come back was surely a tough and well thought out decision.
Fast forward to today. Luke has been shunned by Major League baseball. He carries a stigma that will haunt him the rest of his life. The fact that he had a dismal CWS is merely a side note. The OSU faithful chose to forgive, or believe, or get over his (alleged) behavior as a 15 year old.
Assuming that the allegations (of inappropriate touching, not rape) were true, and that he was a (pick your description - sick, troubled, perverted, confused, etc) 15 year old. 15 year old. Is there never redemption or rehabilitation or forgiveness or forgetting? If not, perhaps he and any other person who is deemed to have committed a sex-related offense should just be taken out and shot.
Taking it a bit further, is there a line in the sand and what is it? Violent rapists should be taken out and castrated then shot in my opinion. Murderers should be put to death. Then start down the scale. Look at the lives and careers that continue to be ruined because of allegations of some lesser level of allegation ala "Me Too". Those who have never done a bad thing in their lives on any level can (and do) stand in pious judgment of everyone else.
In summary, a sad situation in which there are no winners.
Agreed, no winners. You touch on an idea of forgiveness. I'm in no place to give that. I have only media clips. I don't know this mans heart thus I only know his actions. So I just can't watch.
Regarding the "line in the sand". To me that is more a question for the establishments. The NCAA, the Pac 12 Conference, the school itself.
To me, if I were in the shoes of those that make those kinds of decisions, that's a hard one. I've heard "If they're a convicted felon, regardless of crime, they shouldn't play." I don't like that. Pop an idiot in the nose and you've got federal on your @$$. Being a felon is no longer a "wow you must have done something pretty extreme" kind of thing. Bottom line, playing a sport and getting a scholarship is not a "right". In my opinion, there does need to be a line in the sand, somewhere. I just don't know where that is. This article leans more to my way of thinking but still goes too far, in the thought of felons overall shouldn't play.
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/...-is-somehow-allowed-to-return-to-the-diamond/
I don't know where a line needs to stand, but I know where I stand personally and specifically on this point. I won't support them with my viewing of the games. Ratings rule and they won't get my eyeballs on them. I'm only one dude and that's OK.
I have someone very personal in my life that was sexually assaulted. That influences my view. I think of that girl, more than I think of Heimlich. So anyways... Not trying to sway anyone, just giving my .02.
EDIT: You say, "assuming that the allegations... are true". He pled guilty. He now says he's innocent and he only pled guilty to avoid trial. So the water is VERY muddy. I won't go any further than that.
Sorry about the person close to you.
I read the article above, which also linked the (long) article below. Thanks for both. Below they state that Heimlich maintained his innocence from the very beginning. This is worth a read. Very factual. Heated comments section as well.
https://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-s...heimlich-ready-to-return-for-beavers-baseball
Yep. Nothing new.
It's over so no biggie. Just held off and held off. Finally just wanted to put it out there. Better late than never?
I was very happy for the Beavers. And to top it off, there are a number of players from Washington on the team. Kinda makes it local.
I've been thinking the same thing, mostly having to do with areas other than sports. It's easier these days to just let someone swing in the wind, whether they deserve it or not. Easier to fire someone who embarrasses the company than to stand by them. When society offers no real shot at redemption, I expect people are not as likely to improve.
Good comments, Loyal. Just a note on forgiveness. For me, forgiveness is more about healing for the victim than absolution for the aggressor. Carrying around anger and bitterness is corrosive. Better to forgive when able to do so and quit carrying around the damaging emotions. I end up speaking to guys going through divorce more often than I'd like, and the thought I always try to convey is that eventually when the hurt is not so severe, if you can bring yourself to forgive, you are the one who benefits. Initially, pain is thrust upon us. But eventually, pain becomes at least partially a choice. And when you get to the point that you can make the choice, you are generally better off to find a way to forgive. And that is not just for individuals; the mother's march in Ireland was a society-wide step that moved an entire group toward forgiveness, and healing. Visit Croatia and look at the bullet holes that have never been repaired. I asked someone why, and was told it was a reminder. I've since been elsewhere in the world and seen similar things. Forgiveness can be brutally hard, but it is often the only path toward emotional relief.
One thing to make sure we are all talking about here... A convicted pedophile. For me, consistency in life is a major goal. So any given pedophile/sex offender on the registry, the guy down the street that you know is registered in your neighborhood, you guys will all give them the same benefit of the doubt as this young man? Because the prison system is full of convicts that are innocent, you know. Or "they didn't mean to."
But also, lets say he is truly sorry. Does that discount the damage he's done? We should be focusing on that little girl.
"Forgiveness", a few rambling thoughts.
First off, I don't think I need to forgive him. He hasn't asked that of me and I don't need to do it. He most likely doesn't give a rip about me or my forgiveness and he doesn't know me so why should he? I certainly don't think about him. He doesn't weigh on my soul or anything. Also, this concept indicates that I've judged him. No. The courts have judged him. I'm only taking that at face value. They have seen and gone over all the evidence that I haven't/won't ever see. They've "interviewed" all the individuals, and done so under oath. That's significant.
But also in a broader sense, the person whom is in need of forgiveness has to actually admit they were/are wrong and they are sorry. To me, my forgiveness means nothing if they don't think they did something wrong, in some fashion. See, forgiveness is a mutual thing. It's to heal hearts. If it's just about me and my feelings, I'll just not think of him. But my forgiveness is valuable. It has meaning. And that means its a transaction of sorts, between 2 or more people. It isn't just about me. And it certainly can't be done through a press release about how sorry he is or how he didn't do it.
So to me, I don't know him. I can only take it at face value. In court, under oath, he said he was guilty of these crimes. When he WASN'T under oath, he said something different. That says volumes to me. And if he is truly sorry, there are so many ways to show that regret. He has done nothing to show it. If he didn't do it, there are so many ways to heal and to show people his true heart. He hasn't done that, either. But for me in this situation, I can't imagine the issues the, now, 12 year old girl is going to live with the rest of her life. I think of that little girl before I think of him. To me, it isn't about my emotional relief. He just isn't a real thought to me. When asked, I thought about it. But pedophiles? Convicted pedophiles?
I have a suspicion that if he was a common dude (not in a sport) that lived down the street from any of us and our families, a convicted sex offender would not be so easily "forgiven" if he was on the same street as our 7 year old little girl, would it? Or would we be comfortable with our wife walking down the sidewalk in front of his house? For some, maybe you'd be OK. And that would be great because it would show consistency in your words and your actions. Words are cheap. Actions speak volumes. It's a good gauge to determine if your feelings are genuine or just convenient. And if those times are worthy! Because to forgive someone like this that lives down the street, for him to re-offend would be devastating! SO I'm not calling out to forgive all when it isn't due! To me, forgiveness must be due for it to be of value. But that means we, personally need to determine if it is due, doesn't it? And how do you determine that? For me, in this case, the courts determined that. For other situations, it would be getting to know that person, right? Otherwise, how do you accurately know anything? It's food for thought. To each their own, to live in their own skin.
95, I apologize for not being clear. This is not always the easiest subject to address.
Forgiveness is not the same thing as forgetting. Nor does forgiveness mean that you wish to eliminate the consequences of someone's choices. I can forgive and at the same time support the death penalty, or oppose parole when they want to leave prison before their full sentence is served.
As I tried to say, forgiveness is more for the forgiver than it is for the transgressor. It is the path by which some emotions that are really caustic & corrosive to one's sense of self can be released. That doesn't mean that you want to ever see the individual ever again, let alone have them living just down the block. And if they have a debt to society, they need to pay it.
The opposite of love is not hate; it is indifference. I've found that when I forgive, my best path forward from there is indifference toward the person who I have forgiven...regardless of whether they are headed for prison or any other destination. They have earned their consequences, what ever they are. I have let go of hate, which is something that I have done for myself, to avoid the consequences of carrying that around with me.
Forgiveness is not the same thing as forgetting. Nor does forgiveness mean that you wish to eliminate the consequences of someone's choices. I can forgive and at the same time support the death penalty, or oppose parole when they want to leave prison before their full sentence is served.
As I tried to say, forgiveness is more for the forgiver than it is for the transgressor. It is the path by which some emotions that are really caustic & corrosive to one's sense of self can be released. That doesn't mean that you want to ever see the individual ever again, let alone have them living just down the block. And if they have a debt to society, they need to pay it.
The opposite of love is not hate; it is indifference. I've found that when I forgive, my best path forward from there is indifference toward the person who I have forgiven...regardless of whether they are headed for prison or any other destination. They have earned their consequences, what ever they are. I have let go of hate, which is something that I have done for myself, to avoid the consequences of carrying that around with me.
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