Entire KSU Football team boycotts
- Thread starter BleedCrimsonandGray
- Start date
What if he's not expelled?
Well, I'll tell you what. You'll have a whole bunch of 18-22 year old young men who have thrown away ten's of thousands of dollars in free education not to mention future careers.
Over an offensive tweet.
But that's their choice.
Well, I'll tell you what. You'll have a whole bunch of 18-22 year old young men who have thrown away ten's of thousands of dollars in free education not to mention future careers.
Over an offensive tweet.
But that's their choice.
Well not really. They did put out a letter saying they wouldn’t participate in any team activities until the university revises it’s policies regarding racist and hate speech. Of course there are no team activities right now anyway due to COViD.
Not seeing the team quit. But there is this.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports...r-of-a-white-nationalist-group-193436022.html
The student would win a lawsuit if he’s expelled. Obvious First Amendment violation.
An article in the Manhattan Mercury ( K State local paper) quotes the players as saying they understand the guy can’t be expelled. They are apparently looking for a school policy that levies severe sanctions on future hate/racist speech.
I think it's great that athletes across the country are starting to stand up for their rights and the rights of people like them. It forces people to really take a look at things instead of just waving their hands at things and if they start standing strong as a group, it will this bullsh!t of telling athletes to "shut up and dribble".
I find it sad and pathetic to see grown ass men lose their f'ing minds over athletes trying to do the right thing. Not lumping you in with that group, but I worked with a bunch of racist a-holes that felt that Colin Kaepernick should be shot for kneeling. Those same dickheads would come to the defense of a white guy making an offensive tweet without hesitation. There is so much change needed in the world.
I hear what you're saying flat and for the most part I agree with you.
I guess my point is that when young adults, who are getting a free education, start making threats to quit, they're cutting off their nose to spite their face. Perhaps a better way to go about it would be to collectively address the problem with the admin first, media second?
Just like Kap, this isnt about justice or right and wrong, its about grandstanding.
These athletes want the university to punish a student for a tweet congratulating George Floyd for one month of sobriety. The message of these football players is clear: do not challenge our narrative of events or you will be punished. This isn't about defending their rights, it's about imposing a code of speech on students because a group of students who are only in school for their athletic talents decide what is acceptable dialogue. Schools that cave to these demands will only find more restrictive speech codes and extreme demands on their desks tomorrow.
I think like most things like this, there are probably a couple who are sincere in their efforts, but that most fall into the "grandstanding" category. While the overall change these guys are hoping to bring about is noble, the way they go about it puts them at odds with a huge segment of society which doesn't help their cause. Also, they probably ought to look in the mirror a bit and think carefully about the punishment they are asking for. If the trickle down effect of all this is an extreme hard line against callous, insensitive, racist, sexist, non-PC (fill in the blank with the latest flavor of the day...) comments, tweets, facebook pics, etc... then typical locker room and weight room banter has the potential to hit them back very hard because at some point a casual passerby is going to take some offense at what they observe.
Is it though?
EDIT: It's interesting that you (and others) think that it's all right to assume what these kids are thinking and write it off as selfish and unimportant. Unless you've talked to these kids, you have no idea. I'm no Colin Kaepernick fan, but if he didn't take it seriously and believe in what he was doing, wouldn't he have folded before it destroyed his football career? You may not have anything that you believe in enough to jeopardize your career, but that doesn't mean that others are the same.
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Think about what you’re saying right there...
I think this is a difficult topic and it calls for an honest discussion. Part of that honest discussion is the actions of the police. Society is doing a good job of tackling this topic. The other part is the actions of George Floyd, who resisted arrest and while high on meth and fentanyl. It's a fair, albeit uncomfortable question, to wonder if he'd have died if the police hadn't been called. Society is avoiding this question like the plague.
All of that isn't the issue at Kansas St though. The football team is setting itself up as policy makers for discussion on sensitive topics at the University. They haven't thought through the unintended consequences of their actions for academic freedom at the University. The rashness of their decision shows this isn't on their radar.
We've seen how crappy these sort of mandates can be with our own SCB. I don't think the players have bad intentions, but if comments on Twitter can get a student heavily sanctioned for dumb comments on race relations (q for dgib) what are the odds that athletes could face these same sanctions in the future for comments made about women or members of the LGBTQ community.
I’m referring specifically to this statement:”... a group of students who are only in school for their athletic talents...”
are you suggesting black football players aren’t a) smart enough to, or b) can’t afford to, or c) all of the above, go to college?
That's the thing about this. It does need to be a discussion on both sides.....but it's never going to change if both sides say that they aren't going to change until the other side does. Guys like George Floyd need to comply with police, but police officers need to make sure that they aren't the ones creating the situation. Something as simple as twisting a guy's wrist can change a person from compliant to combative and the old bullsh!t of "RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!" needs to die a quick death. A$$hole cops make the good cops look bad but the good cops become a$$hole cops when they cover for the bad cops. Even that goes both ways. Protesters need to make sure that the bad actors within their midst are punished for their actions too.
I wasn't aware the entire football team at KState was black. To my knowledge the entire team banded together on this, not just a group of players.
Athletics opens up a lot of doors for students that would otherwise be closed. We've seen countless examples at WSU of kids who were barely able to academically qualify. Those kids aren't headed to college straight out of high school without sports.
Well given that this all arose around the BLM movement, the implication is this is a a demand motivated by racial inequality--hence, it's is centered around the black students. And when you say "a group of students" you leave the door open to interpret that group as the black football players. Why not just say the football team if that's who you're referring to so as to eliminate the chance someone interprets your comment as black athletes can't get into college without an athletic scholarship?
You are twisting my words based on how you choose to interpret them. Any student organization on campus which lobbies the administration is a group of students. This is should be obvious.
No, I'm just saying that the way you phrased it leaves it open to interpretation, which is why I asked for clarification.
Again, Flat is going to Flat.
I said nothing of their message or their beliefs, just their actions. But feel free to build that strawman and burn it down.
You and your strawman bullshit. You have no idea of about their motivations but in your mind.....they are grandstanding. You think it's ok for you to assume that these guys are just attention whores and nothing more than that and when someone calls you on it.......you try to deflect. Just realize that you are part of the problem and not part of the solution.
Are you able to form a thought that doesn't conform to your own world view? Honest question, because you're leaving a lot to doubt.
They could have handled this internally, without putting the college and its administration on blast to coerce and public shame them into doing something not only illegal, but societally dangerous. One of the greatest things about the 1st amendment is that it allows the idiots/ bigots/ etc self-identify, allowing society to react accordingly.
Lest you forget (which I doubt since you make a point of it everytime someone is critical of a football player) - these are children; young men without fully developed frontal lobes. They should be lead, not coddled because they saw a tasteless "joke" on twitter. I mean, this makes the other "safe space" issues look legit in comparison.
Again, having good intentions and grandstanding are not mutually exclusive, but that point has obviously been missed on you. I support and have supported Kap's cause, but he made a spectacle of himself and completely distracted from the point he was going to make by making himself the focus instead of the cause - grandstanding. The difference between Kap and these kids is that Kap's cause was legitimate, where as these kids are behaving like entitled bables.
Did Kaepernick grandstand? If you actually knew what happened.....instead of just assuming things, you'd know that Kaepernick didn't say a word and simply knelt during the anthem. When asked about it, he gave his explanation. White, conservative America promptly lost their collective minds at the audacity of a negro disrespecting their flag. Now, I will say that I felt that Kaepernick displayed some ignorance in his explanation of what he was doing. He hurt his own cause with a poor selection of words but that doesn't mean that he was "grandstanding". What's funny is that these great Americans who "respect the flag" have no problem wearing flag t-shirts and wipe their mouths on flag napkins....both of which are violations of the flag code.
You talk to me about thinking outside my own world view....yet you have no problem projecting your world view onto these athletes. You might want to check yourself before you lecture me on "strawman" arguments and world views. I feel confident that history will side with my viewpoint.......
EDIT: One other final edit. I was at the Garth Brooks drive in "concert" last night and they played the national anthem....and all of my super patriotic neighbors sat on their asses as they watched it play. But god forbid that a black man "grandstand".
You're such a knight, Flat. Where would the Black population be without you, their hero?
I know exactly what Kap did: he went on national television and made a spectacle of himself, and then after he got a chance to explain his actions to promote his cause, he continued to make a spectacle of himself. A true champion of their cause would have seen that the issue was getting buried in the rhetoric, but not Kap; he continued to kneel, and continued to draw attention to himself and not his cause. You can spin it any way you want, but that is the truth. Let me give you an example:
Lets say I'm having an argument on the internet with a rube from ohhhhhh, lets say Kansas. Now, if I wanted to convince said rube of my opinion/ point, I could just talk to him or I could start the conversation with "hey fckface." As misguided as my methods were, I got the rubes attention, but I managed to piss them off as well and they let me know as much. Now, in continuing this conversation I could continue to address them as "hey fckface", knowing that 'hey, I have their attention' but probably never going to get my point across, OR I could do something less inflammatory REGARDLESS of my intention and try to have a civil conversation. If I were serious about my intentions I would opt for the latter, otherwise people would probably just assume I was an asshole out to rile people up just for the sake of it. REGARDLESS of what my intention OR the truth is, that is what people would think - perception is everything.
Oh, and for the record - I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FCK IF HE KNEELS. That is for the NFL to work out. I will say that I didn't watch a whole lot of NFL that season, simply because it was literally 3 quarters of the commentators discussing him kneeling (and not the cause, btw...) and I grew tired of the theatrics that him kneeling created. Again, not theatrics about race relations - theatrics about whether or not he should be kneeling.
And you might want to step on down from your high horse there, chief. Having a discussion about relevant topics has nothing to do with the "right side of history." Geezus christ, could you be anymore self-righteous?
Why don't you go grandstand at the corner?
EDIT: Let everyone know that athletes should shut up and dribble.
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It's pretty sad that the historical bastion of free speech and liberal thought - the American university system - is now looked upon to be the arbiter or what is and isn't acceptable to say or think.
This is just flat wrong and not close to the truth. He had been doing it long before the rest of the nation found out. He didn't call the press to let them know what he was doing. The press eventually noticed him and asked him about what he was doing. The idea to kneel was not even all his, it came in a conversation with former Green Beret Nate Boyer, who spent time in preseason with the Seahawks as a long snapper. That is hardly grandstanding. It was about justice, right and wrong. He was just the first to do what he did, which made it shocking to people and made him a target.
Haven’t Universities always had that responsibility? When people thought the earth was flat, that the sun orbits the earth, that evolution doesn’t happen, that vaccines cause autism or any of hundreds of thousands of other crackpot beliefs, it was the universities that had to establish what is correct and therefore acceptable to say ( at least in the context of an educational system). Similarly, when someone implies that all blacks are drug addicts, it is the responsibility of universities to set the record straight. Asking the, university system to at least state their strong disagreement, doesn’t seem to be that big an ask.
And. He. Kept. Doing. It.
Well after the point had been lost and he became the focus and not what he was trying to draw attention to (which, btw didn't NEED Kap to draw attention to; the media has been all over white police on unarmed black deaths endlessly).
Y'all are some dense-ass mf'ers.
No. They haven’t.
Your attempt at cloaking censorship with scientific discovery is pretty sad actually.
A far better approach would be for the university to outfit and provide contrary viewpoints with the forum to discuss their disagreement which was the norm on campuses for the better part of the 20th Century and into the 21st
No, they didn't establish what was acceptable to say. In fact, its supposed to be a tenet of science to question accepted thought so that new discoveries can be made - you don't drown out dissension in the name of "right and wrong". You have a discussion and provide facts, or fact supported supposition; that is how its supposed to work.
If you're going to comment on something, at least get your story straight. The tweet made no mention of black people being drug addicts. Floyd is drug free because he's been dead a month, and the autopsy found meth and fentinyl in his system. Its a horrible, classless comment to make but it has nothing to do with "all black people."
This speech isn't about hate or color (though I would suspect that the offender has his own thoughts on POC) - its about being tasteless. That isn't a hate crime. We can't allow people to redefine whatever they hurts their feelings or offend them as hate crimes, whether it be for racial, gender, orientation, or whatever reason.
Aren’t you the one who originally posted the entire KSU football team had quit? That was factually incorrect so you don’t have much room to be all high and mighty about people getting their story straight.
Regarding whether the original tweet applied to all people of color or just George Floyd, I took it to be a slam at black culture in general. Apparently others did as well. If some interpret it differently, that’s ok but I don’t think any of us know what was in the authors heart. Maybe since he got so much publicity, he should take the time to explain himself. Might go a long way to defusing the situation.
I've been thinking on this overnight and wanted to add a couple thoughts. First, everyone needs to take a step back and realize that the student who posted the tweet was just an idiot passing along a joke that he heard. He doesn't need to have his life ruined over this and it's my understanding that the KSU athletes realize that. I also think that KSU (and other schools) need to be careful about passing rules and regulations in a kneejerk reaction to stupidity.
However, it's important to realize that race can come into play on these types of jokes. Because George Floyd was a black man, people find it easy to make jokes about him when it is clearly "too soon". People are still in the streets protesting and it was monumentally dumb to post that tweet, but people defend the kid. Imagine if people were posting jokes about Anton Yeltin having gone 30 days without problems parking his car a month after his death. (For those that don't know the story, Yeltin was the kid who portrayed Chekhov in the new Star Trek who died when he was crushed to death by his SUV that had a known defect). Imagine the hell someone would get if they made a joke about a rape victim who was known for being promiscuous being abstinent for 30 days. It's important to remember that flawed or not, George Floyd was murdered by a cop who was kneeling on his neck with a casual look of, "I wonder what my next backyard project is?". We shouldn't live in a world where people think it's okay to make jokes about murder victims, regardless of color, but it also needs to be a world where white people don't immediately say, "Come on....it's just a joke!".
Again, I don't think KSU needs to make rules that unnecessarily infringe on free speech but I do have a problem when people try to shout down athletes who are taking a stand because they think that athletes need to shut their mouths and play, or massa might take away the football or basketball. The notion that black people should be grateful that the white man is even giving them an opportunity is racist as hell in itself.
However, it's important to realize that race can come into play on these types of jokes. Because George Floyd was a black man, people find it easy to make jokes about him when it is clearly "too soon". People are still in the streets protesting and it was monumentally dumb to post that tweet, but people defend the kid. Imagine if people were posting jokes about Anton Yeltin having gone 30 days without problems parking his car a month after his death. (For those that don't know the story, Yeltin was the kid who portrayed Chekhov in the new Star Trek who died when he was crushed to death by his SUV that had a known defect). Imagine the hell someone would get if they made a joke about a rape victim who was known for being promiscuous being abstinent for 30 days. It's important to remember that flawed or not, George Floyd was murdered by a cop who was kneeling on his neck with a casual look of, "I wonder what my next backyard project is?". We shouldn't live in a world where people think it's okay to make jokes about murder victims, regardless of color, but it also needs to be a world where white people don't immediately say, "Come on....it's just a joke!".
Again, I don't think KSU needs to make rules that unnecessarily infringe on free speech but I do have a problem when people try to shout down athletes who are taking a stand because they think that athletes need to shut their mouths and play, or massa might take away the football or basketball. The notion that black people should be grateful that the white man is even giving them an opportunity is racist as hell in itself.
Ancient - Sorry, they threatened to quit unless KSU gave the kid strong consequences. And again, I'm not sure where you or Flat came up with this idea of "shut up and dribble" from me - another poster might have alluded to that, but I didn't. I don't care what organization they belong to per se, I have an issue with children having a tantrum over a tasteless joke and trying to cancel the first amendment rights of not only the a-hole tweeter, but an entire campus.
Flat - I appreciate your candor and humility, not something that is in abundant supply on this message board. But I'd like to make one thing clear - this kids wasn't just "an idiot with a tasteless joke", he's a full on bigot if not racist. At this point I'm almost wondering if he's a leftist plant, but sadly I know that there are people such as he in the world, and all of the racist douchebags are coming out in droves to defend him on twitter. All that being said, and as much as I find him a true "deplorable", he has a right to be deplorable with his words as long as they don't literally threaten anyone. And to repeat what I said to Ancient - I never said that the kids need to shut up and play. They have every right to do whatever they feel necessary, but I hope and wish for KSU to sit them down and give them a lesson in civics how shutting down 1A rights is not only wrong but potentially harmful to their own cause.
What I'm truly frustrated with is the child-worship culture we have in this country where we've suddenly given a pedestal to literally children, who have zero world experience yet think they have the wisdom to navigate governing a country of 330 million people of different race, creed, and background. Previously the adults would have sat them down and explained why we can't have rainbows on every corner, and unicorns in every yard, but now we pat them on the butt and tell them how proud we are and how important they are and "hey Greta, we know you're only 14, but how about laying down some global climate policy for us?" The adults in the room need to adult and stop giving these kids false expectations of what the world is going to be like, and that doesn't mean you have to be cruel or condescending about it, but it has to be done.
Flat - I appreciate your candor and humility, not something that is in abundant supply on this message board. But I'd like to make one thing clear - this kids wasn't just "an idiot with a tasteless joke", he's a full on bigot if not racist. At this point I'm almost wondering if he's a leftist plant, but sadly I know that there are people such as he in the world, and all of the racist douchebags are coming out in droves to defend him on twitter. All that being said, and as much as I find him a true "deplorable", he has a right to be deplorable with his words as long as they don't literally threaten anyone. And to repeat what I said to Ancient - I never said that the kids need to shut up and play. They have every right to do whatever they feel necessary, but I hope and wish for KSU to sit them down and give them a lesson in civics how shutting down 1A rights is not only wrong but potentially harmful to their own cause.
What I'm truly frustrated with is the child-worship culture we have in this country where we've suddenly given a pedestal to literally children, who have zero world experience yet think they have the wisdom to navigate governing a country of 330 million people of different race, creed, and background. Previously the adults would have sat them down and explained why we can't have rainbows on every corner, and unicorns in every yard, but now we pat them on the butt and tell them how proud we are and how important they are and "hey Greta, we know you're only 14, but how about laying down some global climate policy for us?" The adults in the room need to adult and stop giving these kids false expectations of what the world is going to be like, and that doesn't mean you have to be cruel or condescending about it, but it has to be done.
This is from the KSU local paper:
“The Kansas State football team is, in essence, on strike. And what the players want, ultimately, is for those with a visible platform at the university to denounce racism repeatedly — and loudly — whenever it arises.
Rising senior defensive back Jonathan Alexander told The Mercury in a phone interview Saturday night that he and his teammates have held a series of virtual meetings and calls with K-State president Richard Myers, athletics director Gene Taylor and head football coach Chris Klieman since Friday. The players’ demand came in the wake of a mocking post on Twitter written Thursday by Jaden McNeil, a student at the university.
What we’re saying is, ‘Just say that you guys don’t respect that. Just say that you guys don’t represent that,” Alexander said. “That’s all that we’re saying. ... We’re just wanting (K-State) to say, ‘We don’t respect his point of view.’“
Maybe I’m alone in this point of view but it appears to me that what the players are actually saying doesn’t fit with your description of their behavior at all. Like I said before, to me, it doesn’t seem like their ask is that big.
The university can’t do that. They can impose sanctions on statements made as a representative of the university, or for actions conducted on campus. But they can’t do that for statements made in a student’s personal account/life. Hate speech is protected, as long as it’s not inciting violence.
To your point, I agree that the adults in the room need to be the ones making the decisions and not creating "bad" rules to appease a bunch of players who are upset. Over-reaction is not good. One of my big frustrations with the current environment is seeing people being excused for criminal actions during protests. It's pretty damned wrong to vandalize property and commit crimes in response to a crime. I saw a compelling video of a black woman in Minnesota that does an effective job of showing the anger that leads to that, but again, to your point, when a person's response to the insult/crime exceeds the insult/crime, you hurt your cause rather than help it.
Im going off the original tweet, which is much more direct and not even really close to the quotes in the article. The tweet is a direct threat of "do what we say or else"; read it yourself.
That being said, I'm glad they are having constructive conversations, but again why are we enabling cancel culture and threats as a way to move a conversation forward? Not only that, but they are operating under the very popular mindset that has been moved forward by the media and others, that either you're a victim or a perpetrator - there is no middle ground. Either you're with us or you're against us. A popular refrain on twitter has been "there is no being 'non-racist'; either you're anti-racist or you're against us." A) wtf does that even mean? and B) that's simply not true for many reasons - BUT - that is the conversation.
Same thing was said in 2016 - "either you're voting for Hilary or you're deplorable" Shit man, thanks for the heads up - I wasn't going to vote for Hilary because I don't agree with her foreign policy and think its bad for the US on many levels, but come to find out I'm really a big piece of shit, racist, misogynist, homophobe. Thanks for the heads up. (And no, I didn't put the current POTUS in office either, so stop with your assumptions.) Identity politics is bad for the US and bad for us coming together as a nation for the common good, but its how both parties operate now and the media just stirs the pot to keep it going. But I digress.
I'm also curious why KSU needs to say anything? Are the players afraid that the institution they are attending is a secret lair of racists? If so, why did they go there in the first place? If not, why do they need affirmation of what they already know? Why do they need a public affirmation? What's the end game?
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