Even if we win the first 2, this week's is for 6 wins/offseason changes...

[ttowncoug]

You started the season thinking 6 was pretty much a gimme. 7 and 8 were possible. We've certainly regressed.

Personally, in the offseason, I think:
- Breske goes. I think he recruits Eastern WA, because he's not a great recruiter. Getting a new DC will create a positive buzz amongst the program.

- Leach is given the "your contract isn't rolling over speech" Won't be with much fanfare. Leach is told he has 2 more left to get us back to a bowl game.

- You will see an all hand's on deck approach to recruiting....don't be shocked to see a few semester signees.

- We start to see a fair number of kids decide to pursue other options at end of semester....I think Leach really puts his eggs in the basket to be good next season (and most importantly) the season after.

- I hope, we get some more depth at kicker, even if it costs us a scholarship. See the above to free up space.

 

[SaveFerris]

Originally posted by ttowncoug:
You started the season thinking 6 was pretty much a gimme. 7 and 8 were possible. We've certainly regressed.

Personally, in the offseason, I think:
- Breske goes. I think he recruits Eastern WA, because he's not a great recruiter. Getting a new DC will create a positive buzz amongst the program.

- Leach is given the "your contract isn't rolling over speech" Won't be with much fanfare. Leach is told he has 2 more left to get us back to a bowl game.

- You will see an all hand's on deck approach to recruiting....don't be shocked to see a few semester signees.

- We start to see a fair number of kids decide to pursue other options at end of semester....I think Leach really puts his eggs in the basket to be good next season (and most importantly) the season after.

- I hope, we get some more depth at kicker, even if it costs us a scholarship. See the above to free up space.

Pretty much agree other than the "your contract isn't rolling over speech". Moos will stay in Leach's corner as he should do in Year 3 and honestly in Year 4 as well. I think you can say the offense has been fixed and the pieces are there moving forward. Hopefully adding a few JCs as you suggest on defense, get guys healthy and growing up with returning players, making changes if they can upgrade the staff and the defense is closed to fixed. They just gave Leach more money after last season. After this year you say "win or else"?

The records the record but the program is in much better shape than it was 3 years ago. We actually resemble a Pac 12 program. When you show you are losing faith if the coach does go out and win they then look to move on sooner rather than later. This is when we need Moos and even Floyd to show Leach support. Our next best at this point probably doesn't match Leach and lack of support for Leach doesn't help you bring in another guy. Have the talk of the need to improve and what do you need to make it happen but you have to check the ego and support the guy you paid to build it.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

To paraphrase what Biggs has said - WSU finally invested in football after 100 years.

I think Moos & Floyd know hitting BIG on their ROI may take a little bit longer than normal. They have a bowl game already and next year is all this staff's recruits. Next year is pay dirt time.

 

[ttowncoug]

If the rollover of his contract increases the potential cost of his buy-out (something I can't recall), I think it's likely Floyd doesn't exercise this and overrides Moos.

I tend to agree that Moos pretty much has no choice but to give Leach the vote of confidence short-term.

 

[CougEd]

You really believe not rolling over his contract will suggest faith in

Leach and staff, and you think someone like Leach will think Moos is being supportive.

If they want to keep Leach long term you roll over his contract.

 

[Wasichus]

Re: You really believe not rolling over his contract will suggest faith in

Originally posted by CougEd:
Leach and staff, and you think someone like Leach will think Moos is being supportive.

If they want to keep Leach long term you roll over his contract.

I totally agree with this take on things. If you think Leach will get it done (and you want to keep him past the point he does get it done), then you keep supporting him and rolling over his contract.

To not do so at this point would be essentially saying you have no confidence in his ability to complete the job he started. And, from what I have read about Leach in his books, etc - once he starts to feel that he doesn't have the full support of the administration is EXACTLY when he starts to become "an issue" all by himself.

It's pretty simple. WSU is either "all in" with him for a couple more years, or they start "Richard-ing around" with him and he starts to look elsewhere the second he has success at WSU. I honestly feel he would stay at WSU for a good long time, as long as he felt he was fully supported. But, if he doesn't feel that way, he will be gone in a flash, when/if the opportunity arises.

If you don't think he will get it done....no problem. Go ahead and start doing things like that. I don't think you would have to worry about him for very long down the road, in that case.

 

[ttowncoug]

Re: You really believe not rolling over his contract will suggest faith in

Here's Leach's buy-out. 60% of the money owed to him. If we extend him another year - which is the renewal feature in his contract, here's the dollars you are committing with the scenario of giving him another year..

2015 - 2.75M (pd - no bowl game, no extension)
2016 - 2.75M (pd - no bowl game, fired)
2017 - 2.75M (amt due)
2018 - 2.75M (amt due)

In the above, his buy-out is $3.3M.

This offseason is going to be very interesting for Moos/Floyd.

If you give him the vote of confidence and he fails, you are basically committing a lot of resources to Leach.

 

[Wasichus]

Re: So you expect him to fail?

Do you expect him to fail?? OK then go ahead and screw with him now.

One of the things I got from his SYS book was that he was intensely loyal to TTech UNTIL they started screwing with him. That's when he started shopping himself around and making demands, etc.

If you think he's not the right guy, and/or you think he's not going to get the job done at WSU, then start screwing with him over things like this roll over.

I guarantee it will be the start of the end of the relationship between Mike Leach and WSU. If that's what you want....go for it.

 

[SaveFerris]

Re: You really believe not rolling over his contract will suggest faith in

We are only 3 years in. I understand the concept of sunk costs but we have invested how much in facility improvements over the last 3 years and if you are Moos/Floyd you are worried about a $3.3M buyout?

I agree with Wasichus. If you have decided Leach isn't the guy then pull the plug, pay the money to buy him out, and move on. If you still think he gets it done then why start to pull support? A conversation of "no rollover" is a slippery slope and not the line I see Moos using. Could be wrong.

 

[SaveFerris]

I am sure Floyd is disappointed and likely a big PO'd but it would surprise me if he would go over the head of his AD unless they were on the same page.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Originally posted by CougSinceBirth:
To paraphrase what Biggs has said - WSU finally invested in football after 100 years.

I think Moos & Floyd know hitting BIG on their ROI may take a little bit longer than normal. They have a bowl game already and next year is all this staff's recruits. Next year is pay dirt time.

First, WSU has never been built. Unless you think "built" means 3 winning years in a row. If you think it means more then 3 winning seasons in a row, WSU has never been built. So to call it a rebuild is ridiculous.

Second, I think the WSU build takes at least 8 years. In those 8 years you'll have ups and downs. You might make a bowl one year, the next you don't. You might make a bowl the year after, the next you're a tough out and lose 9 games. The reality is that the early classes of ML are going to be a bit scattered. Some kids will pan out, some won't. Some kids were recruited off of the last staff, they may pan out, maybe not. Some positions take longer to grow up, some don't. So many variables.

Third, this is a new era in the PAC 12. Everyone has money. The only issue is how they spend it. You're gonna see more parity than ever now. Gone are the days of playing one or two tough league games and the rest are easy outs. It's a fight every week. You'll see teams you thought were gonna challenge for the division or conference title go down in flames with a couple tough losses. You'll see teams you never dreamed of being in the league championship game win a few close games and get there. You'll see teams get a couple tough injuries and what you thought would be a certain bowl season goes down in flames. I predict it will be up and down for many teams in the future for this conference. If you can rip off 5 straight bowl games in the PAC 12 I think you're gonna find yourself one of the better teams.

Fourth, I like what ML's offense does for WSU. I think by eliminating tight ends and more running backs you can add numbers to the OL. I think more numbers to the OL will in time (cause 450 bench pressers aren't made overnight) mean better pass protection and better run blocking. With ML having the rep he does as a QB coach, I think WSU will ALWAYS be in the mix for a high end QB recruit. More scholarships committed to the OL and a top end QB every year is more than we've seen in the last 30 years.

Fifth, if it all falls down blame CougEd.

 

[Wasichus]

Re: Another thing to consider....

You stop the rollover and you are sending that same message of lack of support and feeling that Leach isn't going to get it done to RECRUITS. You think things like that aren't noticed and used in recruiting???

There are a lot of pretty good recruits coming in to see what WSU has to offer, both this weekend and later in Dec/Jan. What sort of message are they going to take away from that sort of action, other than the coach who's recruiting them doesn't have the full support of his administration and might be on shaky ground because of it? You KNOW that gets used against WSU in a heartbeat!

This is totally different than any "bonuses". I see no scenario (other than some arcane criteria unknown to any of us) where Leach and staff get/deserve bonuses this year. Fine. Let THAT be your statement.

But don't eff around with the rollover thing trying to send a message that ends up being entirely different (lack of support) than the one intended (motivation).

If you honestly don't think he can do it at WSU, you get rid of him and start all over.

Otherwise don't pull that sort of half way thought out nonsense. I hope to shout that Moos and Floyd aren't thinking along those lines..........

 

[ttowncoug]

Re: Another thing to consider....

I'm personally in camp Leach. I think he's the right guy for job.

The point of the post mentioning the buyout is perspective.

As others mentioned, I agree you have to give him support.

If it does not work out, change is a few years away.

This post was edited on 11/24 9:30 PM by ttowncoug

 

[CrimsonWazzu]

Re: Another thing to consider....

If at any point you think it's a good idea to not roll over Leach's contract, then you also must think it's a good idea to start looking for a new head coach.