EWU, Jo Albi

[Loyal Coug]

Hey it's Friday. Might as well piss off you Spokanians this morning.

So - article about design for Roos field improvements in Cheney. Grippi and an editorial about how Spokane should reject the 2-1 advisory vote against a downtown Spokane FB stadium and do it anyway.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/nov/08/eastern-washington-selects-spokanes-alsc-architect/
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/nov/09/grip-sports-when-it-comes-new-football-facilitys-l/
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/nov/08/dave-nichols-board-should-ignore-advisory-vote-bui/

OK, so a few thoughts. First, a common link here is ALCS Architects, who is doing the EWU design, and I believe did the Albi renovation/downsize analysis saying how it would cost just as much to renovate as build new, downtown. Just hold that thought, fellow capitalists.

The Grippi and Nichols opinion pieces wax on about how remote Albi is, far far away form those poor high schools. Let's see - within 5 miles of NC, Rogers and L&C, and admittedly 10 miles from Ferris. A stones throw from Shadle. Recognize that all these schools are at least a couple miles or more from the downtown location except Rogers. But, the downtown plan also wants 6 new "playfields" at the Albi location. That is in addition to the existing 6 ballfields, 6 soccer fields, and 2 football fields already there. Not counting Jo Albi itself.

Nichols says:
Lastly, if the stadium is built downtown, that would allow for the building of one of the three new middle schools plus six new playing fields for Merkel Complex on the Albi site, which would allow for that venue to attract regional- and state-level events in all sorts of competitions.

If the stadium is rebuilt at Albi, that forces the middle school to be jammed into the south parking lot at Albi and nixes plans for the extra playing fields, which would preclude Merkel from hosting the more prominent events.

So Jo Albi's remoteness - so many (5) miles from the schools - precludes it from being attractive for local HS football, but it is the perfect location for these regional and state and prominent events. Where you have fans coming from out of town, needing lodging, food, etc. Unlike the local HS football fans. Explain that logic to me please? And just how many playing fields do you need in this remote location?

Now we get to EWU. 20 miles from Eastern's campus to Jo Albi. 29 minutes. Many of EWU's faculty, staff and students, and certainly most of their local alums, live in Spokane anyway.

And you will never convince me that taking an existing footprint where the stands basically lay on the hillside (bowl), removing the stands (I guess, how bad are they?), and putting new stands and press/luxury boxes and improved restrooms, etc right where all the plumbing and power, etc already exists, is as expensive as building stands straight up in the air. No way.

So take Albi, downsize it to about 15,000 seats to be plenty big for Eastern, and there you go. The bathrooms, concessions, etc can be multi tasked to serve all these prominent events that are flocking to the existing fields already. Heck, make the field wide enough for America's sport (soccer) while you are at it.

No brainer. And you are welcome.

 

[metprof]

If Spokane is itching to spend money might I suggest they fix the damn streets.

Just a thought.

 

[avabob1]

I read these articles too. One thing that jumped out at me was parking. They talked about parking not being a problem down town, and that is true. I am sure its not a problem since they would be getting 5-10 bucks compared to free parking at the albi site.

I as far away from Albi as you can get in the city, and the distance never crosses my mind if there is an event out there I want to attend.

 

[earldacoug]

Spokane is somewhat dirty and has a homeless problem on the streets.I can see why the voters would rather improve and then play their games at Albi which is out in the suburb.

 

[Coug95man2]

I dare the city to go against such an overwhelming voice from their constituents... THAT would be awesome to watch. One way to get turnover from politicians without mandating that political figures have term limits!

 

[froropmkr72]

Spokane is somewhat dirty and has a homeless problem on the streets.I can see why the voters would rather improve and then play their games at Albi which is out in the suburb.

I also agree with that argument.

 

[Observer11]

For the esteemed Loyal Coug, I will ingest a bit of crow. Not a lot but a bit.

The downtown stadium was a done deal, then the school district got greedy and demanded free parking. Then they got really greedy and wanted the city to build a $10M garage to which the city said, HELL NO. But they both needed a means to get some egg off their face so the city council kicked it to an advisory vote (which the vote still is advisory, by the way). That was a dumb move - the district and the city should have continued to negotiate it out - which they ultimately did and determined a $10 Million parking garage really wasn't necessary. If they'd have just been a little more patient, the downtown location would have been announced and everyone would have been happy with the pretty pictures. It was just a ham-handed approach to handling things.

In the meantime, there was really no concerted effort to explain just what the advisory vote entailed and the benefits/limitations of each site until the last few weeks. So, the rallying cry was "we can't afford a downtown stadium - just fix Albi" when, in fact, 'fixing' Albi is going to cost more with far less economic benefits. I saw plenty of "just building stadiums at each school" which was by far the most expensive and impractical alternative and didn't even make the cut.

I don't have time to go into all the misinformation that was spread via social media - mostly that "we can't afford a new stadium - just fix Albi" was the most common refrain. Though the downtown site would actually cost less.

I do admit Nichols article isn't very well written and paints the voters as dumbasses - which is sometimes true. Probably not how you want to win friends and influence people.

I gotta run to a meeting but may have some additional thoughts later. Or I may not. Just depends on how the rest of my day goes.

 

[Observer11]

I read these articles too. One thing that jumped out at me was parking. They talked about parking not being a problem down town, and that is true. I am sure its not a problem since they would be getting 5-10 bucks compared to free parking at the albi site.

I as far away from Albi as you can get in the city, and the distance never crosses my mind if there is an event out there I want to attend.

But before I go - more misinformation. Parking would have continued to be free for high school events at the downtown location.

 

[Observer11]

EWU ain't ever leaving Cheney again. Just perish that thought, too. We saw how the 'home' games in Seattle played out -not the same college atmosphere we all enjoy. Or ask the Vandals how peachy it was to play their 'home' games in Martin.

I've been to plenty of EWU games and their tailgating arrangement is damned fun. No more than I would ask WSU students to go over to the Kibbie Dome and tailgate would I ask EWU kids to travel into Spokane.

 

[COUGinNCW]

If Spokane is itching to spend money might I suggest they fix the damn streets.

Just a thought.

Believe it or not the streets are getting fixed slowly but surely.

 

[Cougzz]

EWU ain't ever leaving Cheney again. Just perish that thought, too. We saw how the 'home' games in Seattle played out -not the same college atmosphere we all enjoy. Or ask the Vandals how peachy it was to play their 'home' games in Martin.

I've been to plenty of EWU games and their tailgating arrangement is damned fun. No more than I would ask WSU students to go over to the Kibbie Dome and tailgate would I ask EWU kids to travel into Spokane.

EWU is on a hot streak and would be insane to do anything but improve their Cheney facilities. Spokane goes to Cheney, not vice-versa. And an expensive re-do of Albi, while I am against it, would seat more like 5,000 and not 15,000. The downtown with a multi-use function is absolutely the right move.

 

[Loyal Coug]

So, the rallying cry was "we can't afford a downtown stadium - just fix Albi" when, in fact, 'fixing' Albi is going to cost more with far less economic benefits.

I don't have time to go into all the misinformation that was spread via social media - mostly that "we can't afford a new stadium - just fix Albi" was the most common refrain. Though the downtown site would actually cost less.
I

EWU ain't ever leaving Cheney again. Just perish that thought, too. We saw how the 'home' games in Seattle played out -not the same college atmosphere we all enjoy. Or ask the Vandals how peachy it was to play their 'home' games in Martin.

I've been to plenty of EWU games and their tailgating arrangement is damned fun. No more than I would ask WSU students to go over to the Kibbie Dome and tailgate would I ask EWU kids to travel into Spokane.

In order - first of all I am 95% sure that the ALCS "estimates" did not say that fixing Albi would be MORE expensive than a downtown stadium. I think the "numbers" were similar, and I call complete BS on that. No way.

Second - what "economic benefits" would playing HS games downtown bring? The HS students would flock to the downtown bars after the games? I'd like to see that. Every article ever written speaks to the "few hundred" fans at the HS games. So there are no big economic benefits.

Cheney to Spokane vs Pullman to Seattle? Compare apples to oranges much? And the Vandals has some pretty good attendance in Pullman - 23,000 for one game. 8,000 more than the Kibbee Dome holds.

Finally - Just how many EWU "kids" even live in Cheney vs Spokane, as opposed to the 100% percent of WSU- Pullman kids who live in Pullman? Not to mention the rest of the EWU fans.

Finally finally - my major point is that you can solve two issues with one project. Roos is small and pathetic, Spokane needs a HS stadium. Talk about lower costs...….two birds, one stone. And I bet EWU would get a helluva lot more total fans at Jo Albi than they ever will at Roos.

 

[Loyal Coug]

EWU is on a hot streak and would be insane to do anything but improve their Cheney facilities. Spokane goes to Cheney, not vice-versa. And an expensive re-do of Albi, while I am against it, would seat more like 5,000 and not 15,000. The downtown with a multi-use function is absolutely the right move.

That was the point - redo Jo Albi to hold the 15,000 that EWU "needs".

 

[425cougfan]

Permit me a dumb question -- any chance Gonzaga tries to start up a football program and use a new downtown stadium that may be built? Is that even workable in any sense (travel, logistics, available leagues/opponents, etc.)? I ask because I could see it being another excuse for 3,000 to 5,000 (more) Spokanites to stay in town on Saturdays, even if the level of competition was terrible.

 

[COUGinNCW]

In order - first of all I am 95% sure that the ALCS "estimates" did not say that fixing Albi would be MORE expensive than a downtown stadium. I think the "numbers" were similar, and I call complete BS on that. No way.

Second - what "economic benefits" would playing HS games downtown bring? The HS students would flock to the downtown bars after the games? I'd like to see that. Every article ever written speaks to the "few hundred" fans at the HS games. So there are no big economic benefits.

Cheney to Spokane vs Pullman to Seattle? Compare apples to oranges much? And the Vandals has some pretty good attendance in Pullman - 23,000 for one game. 8,000 more than the Kibbee Dome holds.

Finally - Just how many EWU "kids" even live in Cheney vs Spokane, as opposed to the 100% percent of WSU- Pullman kids who live in Pullman? Not to mention the rest of the EWU fans.

Finally finally - my major point is that you can solve two issues with one project. Roos is small and pathetic, Spokane needs a HS stadium. Talk about lower costs...….two birds, one stone. And I bet EWU would get a helluva lot more total fans at Jo Albi than they ever will at Roos.

Ewu played at Albi 20 or so years ago. It was lame.

 

[Lollapalousa]

Spokane is somewhat dirty and has a homeless problem on the streets.I can see why the voters would rather improve and then play their games at Albi which is out in the suburb.

I also agree with that argument.

Spokane is unbelievably awesome. Their Downtown kicks ass too. I go to all Coug road games. It’s sickening to see the the growing homeless problem in all the West Coast cities. Been to LA or Vegas lately?

 

[Cougzz]

Permit me a dumb question -- any chance Gonzaga tries to start up a football program and use a new downtown stadium that may be built? Is that even workable in any sense (travel, logistics, available leagues/opponents, etc.)? I ask because I could see it being another excuse for 3,000 to 5,000 (more) Spokanites to stay in town on Saturdays, even if the level of competition was terrible.

GU will bring back football about the same time they bring back a boxing team. Their athletic fan appeal revolves around basketball and baseball. They limit financial exposure and put first-class teams in a position to succeed. That is a winning formula, regardless of whether the rest of us root for them or not.

 

[avabob1]

Gu has a football team. Its called WSU. They just switch hats when hoops start.

 

[Cougzz]

Spokane is unbelievably awesome. Their Downtown kicks ass too. I go to all Coug road games. It’s sickening to see the the growing homeless problem in all the West Coast cities. Been to LA or Vegas lately?

So you are saying build the stadium downtown and turn Albi into a homeless encampment? Please run for mayor. I want to be your press secretary.

 

[wazzucougs96]

The albi site is terrible. Rebuilding out there is a waste of time and money. Rebuilding out there for EWU is an even bigger waste of time and money.

The downtown stadium would be multi use, thus allowing it to be a positive for the local economy. No, high schoolers aren't going to flock to bars. But families of travelling teams will use the hotels and restaurants. Plus there is ample parking all over that area of town. Like Observer said, putting that thing up for an advisory vote was incredibly stupid and short sighted.

 

[Loyal Coug]

The albi site is terrible. Rebuilding out there is a waste of time and money. Rebuilding out there for EWU is an even bigger waste of time and money.

The downtown stadium would be multi use, thus allowing it to be a positive for the local economy. No, high schoolers aren't going to flock to bars. But families of travelling teams will use the hotels and restaurants. Plus there is ample parking all over that area of town. Like Observer said, putting that thing up for an advisory vote was incredibly stupid and short sighted.

Aside from being 10 minutes from all the hotels and restaurants (5 minutes farther than Martin Stadium), what is so terrible about the Albi site?

And what multi-uses would this downtown stadium have? Nowhere has it been mentioned that it would fit a soccer field. I think you confuse it with the sports center thing they want to build down there.

And families of traveling teams. What traveling teams? Do you meant the 2 or 3 possible FB playoff games per year? So if these occasional HS playoff games happen, and they are at Albi, these families will not drive 10 minutes to pay to eat and sleep? Will they go home? sleep in their cars and eat worms? And ample downtown parking? You mean Albi has no parking? None of your arguments hold any water whatsoever.

I do agree 100% that having an advisory vote was stupid. Why in America would we want Americans to express their opinions on how to spend their tax dollars? It's not like this is a democracy or some stupid thing like that.

And one more thing, referring again to the Nichols editorial (copied below) and my comments in the first post. You say "families of traveling teams will use the hotels and restaurants". But half of Nichols argument for the downtown stadium is to add fields to the Albi site to attract "state-level" and "prominent" events. Which I assume will include families of traveling teams that will use hotels and restaurants? This is just circular and nonsensical. Can I sell you and others some shares in my pyramid scheme?

Nichols says:
Lastly, if the stadium is built downtown, that would allow for the building of one of the three new middle schools plus six new playing fields for Merkel Complex on the Albi site, which would allow for that venue to attract regional- and state-level events in all sorts of competitions.

If the stadium is rebuilt at Albi, that forces the middle school to be jammed into the south parking lot at Albi and nixes plans for the extra playing fields, which would preclude Merkel from hosting the more prominent events.

 

[dgibbons]

Aside from being 10 minutes from all the hotels and restaurants (5 minutes farther than Martin Stadium), what is so terrible about the Albi site?

And what multi-uses would this downtown stadium have? Nowhere has it been mentioned that it would fit a soccer field. I think you confuse it with the sports center thing they want to build down there.

And families of traveling teams. What traveling teams? Do you meant the 2 or 3 possible FB playoff games per year? So if these occasional HS playoff games happen, and they are at Albi, these families will not drive 10 minutes to pay to eat and sleep? Will they go home? sleep in their cars and eat worms? And ample downtown parking? You mean Albi has no parking? None of your arguments hold any water whatsoever.

I do agree 100% that having an advisory vote was stupid. Why in America would we want Americans to express their opinions on how to spend their tax dollars? It's not like this is a democracy or some stupid thing like that.

Albi is not “ten minutes from all hotels and restaurants.”

 

[earldacoug]

Spokane is unbelievably awesome. Their Downtown kicks ass too. I go to all Coug road games. It’s sickening to see the the growing homeless problem in all the West Coast cities. Been to LA or Vegas lately?

Yes been to Vegas. Grew up in Vancouver, Wa but have escaped to Arizona 9 mos. a year, where it is clean. Seattle, Portland, even Vancouver have a homeless problem. Trash and lack of maintenance on roads is evident too. The I-5 corridor has become a $#ithole imo.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Albi is not “ten minutes from all hotels and restaurants.”

Oh sorry. It is 10-12 minutes from many hotels, and closer than 10 minutes from some restaurants.

Yes been to Vegas. Grew up in Vancouver, Wa but have escaped to Arizona 9 mos. a year, where it is clean. Seattle, Portland, even Vancouver have a homeless problem. Trash and lack of maintenance on roads is evident too. The I-5 corridor has become a $#ithole imo.

We can all agree on the homeless and panhandler problem. Spokane is pretty bad at the bottom of the South Hill and around downtown. Tacoma is horrible. Olympia is horrible. I try to stay away from Seattle.

There is this one guy near where I live. Probably 55-60, big guy, looks normal and fit enough. He is at the same spot every day, all day. I don't think he is homeless. I think that is his job. I will never give him a dime, but often want to get out and ask him what his deal is.

 

[Coug95man2]

Oh sorry. It is 10-12 minutes from many hotels, and closer than 10 minutes from some restaurants.



We can all agree on the homeless and panhandler problem. Spokane is pretty bad at the bottom of the South Hill and around downtown. Tacoma is horrible. Olympia is horrible. I try to stay away from Seattle.

There is this one guy near where I live. Probably 55-60, big guy, looks normal and fit enough. He is at the same spot every day, all day. I don't think he is homeless. I think that is his job. I will never give him a dime, but often want to get out and ask him what his deal is.

According to Google maps, with 5:00 pm traffic (for whatever that's worth) it's 17 minutes to 122 N. Wall Street to Albi

EDIT: And it's exactly 5 miles

 

[mikalalas]

Spokane is unbelievably awesome. Their Downtown kicks ass too. I go to all Coug road games. It’s sickening to see the the growing homeless problem in all the West Coast cities. Been to LA or Vegas lately?

Here why you dont know what your talking about:

1. I rented a bedroom from a nice 5 bedroom house with roommates renting other rooms.

1 of the roommates who had a restraining order from a ex wife, wrongfully accused me of stealing, tried to beat me up, got himself a black eye, wrongfully got a restraining order against me, had me jailed, couldn't return to home so ENDED UP HOMELESS FOR 2,3,4 WEEKS UNTIL I FOUND A NEW APT, ABOUT 7 TO 13 YEARS AGO.

I also have had friends who are or who have been homeless.

I have gone to the A CLUB dance club, and the Satelite Diner in DOWNTOWN SPOKANE many times.

I have been a rave, dance club, karaoke junkee at times, at many of the clubs, bars, taverns, restaurants, downtown.

There was a bouncer who worked at Irv's was almost killed by 25 to 75, 15 to 29 year old homeless street punks. After he got off work, went to his motorcycle, that is when he was attacked, almost beat to death.

3,4 Downtown Restaurants, Businesses had to close down, go out of business, because homeless street thug punks, kept on aggresively pan handling, intimidating, bothering, attacking, etc, BUSINESS, RESTAURANT CUSTOMERS

Several Downtown Spokane Businesses have been either broken into, robbed, vandalized, tagged with wannabee gang graffiti by homeless street thug punks.

Every Friday, Saturday Night at 11:30 to 1:30 at night, it is FIGHT NIGHT ENTERTAINMENT CENTRAL.

Several times I, others have seen:

A Downtown homeless man take his clothes off in public in downtown spokane and take a poo, piss on public sidewalk in front of everyone.

A Downtown homeless man almost freeze to death in t shirt, shorts, because refused help from me, others

A Downtown drunken homeless man get dehydrated, almost die, on a HOT day(he was saved by EMT, Firefighters, that I called)

THERE IS A HUGE HOMELESS PROBLEM IN DOWNTOWN SPOKANE.

IF YOU DISAGREE, YOUR WRONG, NO ANDS, IFS, BUTS, ABOUT IT PERIOD, AND YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT.

Also one of the reasons there is homeless problem, is that the people of Spokane, its people, charities, snap, homeless coalition, churches, shelters, resources, NOT THE GOVERNMENT(GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN ANTI HOMELESS), helps feed, cloth, shelter, house, find work for, train, etc, the homeless.

Because of that there is no reason for any homeless to ever go without food, clothing, shelter, in spokane.

Its so good for homeless in Spokane, that homeless from Seattle, Portland, other areas have come to Spokane, just because of how well Spokane helps homeless, and thus adds to the homeless population in Downtown Spokane, adding to the homeless problem in downtown Spokane.

 

[mikalalas]

Also just because you are ignorant, oblivious, don't see the Homeless, and the problems they as a group collectively, not individually, cause for people in Spokane, does NOT mean the homeless and the problems they cause are not there.

Downtown Spokane, its businesses, stores, restaurants, media, people, homeless, etc, try to hide the homeless problem from ignoramuses like you, so that ignoramuses like you dont see, hear about it, and think that Downtown Spokane is not a hole, and is instead awesome, does not have a bad homeless problem

 

[dgibbons]

Oh sorry. It is 10-12 minutes from many hotels, and closer than 10 minutes from some restaurants.



We can all agree on the homeless and panhandler problem. Spokane is pretty bad at the bottom of the South Hill and around downtown. Tacoma is horrible. Olympia is horrible. I try to stay away from Seattle.

There is this one guy near where I live. Probably 55-60, big guy, looks normal and fit enough. He is at the same spot every day, all day. I don't think he is homeless. I think that is his job. I will never give him a dime, but often want to get out and ask him what his deal is.

You’re still wrong.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Albi is not “ten minutes from all hotels and restaurants.”

Oh sorry. It is 10-12 minutes from many hotels, and closer than 10 minutes from some restaurants.
.

You’re still wrong.

Your incredibly detailed, documented and thorough posts continue to amaze me gibby.

That said, enough from me on Jo Albi and the $30+ million plan to bring those hundreds of local HS fans to downtown Spokane every weekend to boost the economy.

 

[metprof]

Also just because you are ignorant, oblivious, don't see the Homeless, and the problems they as a group collectively, not individually, cause for people in Spokane, does NOT mean the homeless and the problems they cause are not there.

Downtown Spokane, its businesses, stores, restaurants, media, people, homeless, etc, try to hide the homeless problem from ignoramuses like you, so that ignoramuses like you dont see, hear about it, and think that Downtown Spokane is not a hole, and is instead awesome, does not have a bad homeless problem

I'm sorry for the rough time you've had. You are exactly right about the homeless issue. I was a Spokane City firefighter years back and spent much of my time on the depart. at stations 1 & 3 (downtown and the courthouse area, which we called the "twilight zone") on engine companies and occasionally drove paramedic squads.

The homeless population has an entire subculture most don't know about. It's not pretty. Certain members are manipulative and attempt to lord over others through power, intimidation, and physical violence. Some gleefully pit fellow homeless against each other. Homeless women are abused and assaulted. There was one alcoholic guy named "Tommy Two Toes" I never saw conscious, I kid you not. Moving the Union Gospel Mission was believed to help this issue but I think it just spread the homeless around. If you toss in the opioid crisis it's not bound to get better anytime soon.

 

[mikalalas]

I'm sorry for the rough time you've had. You are exactly right about the homeless issue. I was a Spokane City firefighter years back and spent much of my time on the depart. at stations 1 & 3 (downtown and the courthouse area, which we called the "twilight zone") on engine companies and occasionally drove paramedic squads.

The homeless population has an entire subculture most don't know about. It's not pretty. Certain members are manipulative and attempt to lord over others through power, intimidation, and physical violence. Some gleefully pit fellow homeless against each other. Homeless women are abused and assaulted. There was one alcoholic guy named "Tommy Two Toes" I never saw conscious, I kid you not. Moving the Union Gospel Mission was believed to help this issue but I think it just spread the homeless around. If you toss in the opioid crisis it's not bound to get better anytime soon.

Thanks for your comment Metprof. Also I am sorry for my, the rant on Lolla's comment.

Its just that Lolla's comment really got to me, when he said that Downtown Spokane is awesome, does not have a homeless problem, and that homeless does not cause problems for everyone else, rich, poor, middleclass, spokane residents, business, tourist, etc, disagreeing with everyone who mentioned that a reason to not build stadium downtown was because of homeless problem.

I have been fortunate, I really havent had it that bad, rough. Was only homeless for days, 2,3,4 weeks, had food, clothes, shelter, money, found a Apt.

And I wasn't trying to "Oh Woe is me, OR "Oh woe is, for the homeless"

Rather I was trying to convey what kind of problem the homeless in Spokane, was creating for the NON homeless, rich, middleclass, poor, businesses, restaurants, stores, residents, tourist, visitors, etc, in Spokane.

I mean its bad enough in Downtown Spokane, because of homeless, that I would counsel against the stadium being built in downtown spokane, and would counsel WSU coug fans, or anyone else from visiting downtown spokane, going to downtown spokane businesses, stores, restaurants, bars, taverns, etc, on Thursday, Friday, Saturday Nights between 9 pm to 2 am, or whenever it gets dark in winter time(after 6:30 pm)

And also dont give money to pan handlers, or be conned.

What I do: If I am approached by pan handlers, I tell them I will buy them food, groceries, a meal at a restaurant, store. If they turn me down, and ask for cash instead, rhat USUALLY, but not always means that they want money for drugs, beer, cigarettes, etc, and I refuse to give them any money.

I also offer to plug them into resources like the homeless coalition, to help them get food, shelter, housing, clothes, jobs, training, etc.

But they usually turn me down, want cash, that I dont give them.

But the time that a YOUNG homeless couple let me buy them a meal at a restaurant, plug them into resources, and then I ran into them 1 year later, at Taco Bell, and the Boyfriend of the Young Couple, was dressed in a suit, white shirt, tie, had a interview for a job, while the girlfriend told me that her boyfriend was probably going to get a, the job, and that they were getting married, and that they got a apartment, had plenty of food, clothing, and thanked me for helping them a year ago, makes, made it worth dealing with pan handlers.

But thats just how I do it.

Just giving suggestions on dealing with homeless people so that BOTH homeless can be helped, and pan handling con artiat, druggies, etc, be stopped, prevented from hurting themselves, others, and so that other non homeless people, residents, visitors, etc, dont get hurt, dont have to deal with the problems that Downtown Spokane Homeless create.

 

[mikalalas]

So Totally Glad that I dont live in Downtown Spokane anymore and live in a 2 Bed Apt. With my wife, daughter in Lincoln County, and that I have been trained as a NAC, CNA, EMT, and that I have started up my Jack N DJ Box business.

 

[dgibbons]

Your incredibly detailed, documented and thorough posts continue to amaze me gibby.

That said, enough from me on Jo Albi and the $30+ million plan to bring those hundreds of local HS fans to downtown Spokane every weekend to boost the economy.

Like all the links you’ve included?

 

[Observer11]

I'm sorry for the rough time you've had. You are exactly right about the homeless issue. I was a Spokane City firefighter years back and spent much of my time on the depart. at stations 1 & 3 (downtown and the courthouse area, which we called the "twilight zone") on engine companies and occasionally drove paramedic squads.

The homeless population has an entire subculture most don't know about. It's not pretty. Certain members are manipulative and attempt to lord over others through power, intimidation, and physical violence. Some gleefully pit fellow homeless against each other. Homeless women are abused and assaulted. There was one alcoholic guy named "Tommy Two Toes" I never saw conscious, I kid you not. Moving the Union Gospel Mission was believed to help this issue but I think it just spread the homeless around. If you toss in the opioid crisis it's not bound to get better anytime soon.

Sounds like internet message boards.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Like all the links you’ve included?

Did you read the initial post with the three links? WTF is wrong with you?

 

[Observer11]

Patchen goes off on the vote. Starts at the 15 minute mark or so.

 

[dgibbons]

Did you read the initial post with the three links? WTF is wrong with you?

Keep spouting off about things you know nothing about.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Interesting thread. Not the common fare, that's for sure. A couple thoughts.

- the homeless issue continues to grow in every major city and a lot of minor ones. Even cities with terrible winter weather, which traditionally had less of an issue. I live in SoCal, and it has been prominent for a long time here.
- I support the local homeless winter shelter pretty significantly. Without going into a lot of detail, the statistics in our area run along the lines of 30-40% of the homeless have mental issues, a bit more than that have substance abuse issues, and some of the people overlap the two groups and have both. I think the generally accepted statistic in our area is on the order of 60-65% have one or both issues...many of the rest are some combination of economic, disfunctional family or domestic violence related. Opioids are a big problem everywhere, but have almost gutted certain rural societies. Believe it or not they are not a monumental contributing factor in the homeless in my area (or if it is, that hasn't caught up with the data yet), but that is not true in some other areas.
- Until preventive medical care is available, including mental healthcare, along with transportation (the majority of homeless don't have a car), the problem will continue to get worse. During the '80's the federal mental health institutions were substantially dismantled. The states were supposed to pick up the ball and most did not.
- One approach to all this is to uncouple healthcare from employment, and include mental healthcare. There are many models available to consider (Canada, England, Germany and New Zealand come to mind as examples, as well as simply expanding Medicare) and each of them have problems...none is perfect. But it is also not perfect to have 15-30% of the people in your area not covered by health insurance...that is a public health emergency waiting to happen. And lest you challenge the 30% figure, consider for a moment the current debate about how many undocumented folks we actually have. There is a big argument in the greater LA basin right now as to whether we are closer to 1 or 2 million undocumented. If the 2 million figure is right, then we pretty much have to be at least 25% without health insurance...that is simply how the math works.


As for Albi, that whole situation is a political failure that will continue to cast embarrassment on any current political figure who touches it too often. As such, it will probably have to be an election football for the City Council and Mayor before anything serious will happen. Observer gave a good summary.

 

[7ICoug]

Well all I can say is take one of if not the largest packing lot which is across from KXLY and serves the Veterans Arena and a lot of other stuff and turn it into a football place and most parking is going going gone.

All sports casters/newspaper guys like to be close to work hence the paper and KXLY and KHQ supporters. Why on earth would you have people vote and then reject them. I say just cancel High School football.

 

[mikalalas]

Interesting thread. Not the common fare, that's for sure. A couple thoughts.

- the homeless issue continues to grow in every major city and a lot of minor ones. Even cities with terrible winter weather, which traditionally had less of an issue. I live in SoCal, and it has been prominent for a long time here.
- I support the local homeless winter shelter pretty significantly. Without going into a lot of detail, the statistics in our area run along the lines of 30-40% of the homeless have mental issues, a bit more than that have substance abuse issues, and some of the people overlap the two groups and have both. I think the generally accepted statistic in our area is on the order of 60-65% have one or both issues...many of the rest are some combination of economic, disfunctional family or domestic violence related. Opioids are a big problem everywhere, but have almost gutted certain rural societies. Believe it or not they are not a monumental contributing factor in the homeless in my area (or if it is, that hasn't caught up with the data yet), but that is not true in some other areas.
- Until preventive medical care is available, including mental healthcare, along with transportation (the majority of homeless don't have a car), the problem will continue to get worse. During the '80's the federal mental health institutions were substantially dismantled. The states were supposed to pick up the ball and most did not.
- One approach to all this is to uncouple healthcare from employment, and include mental healthcare. There are many models available to consider (Canada, England, Germany and New Zealand come to mind as examples, as well as simply expanding Medicare) and each of them have problems...none is perfect. But it is also not perfect to have 15-30% of the people in your area not covered by health insurance...that is a public health emergency waiting to happen. And lest you challenge the 30% figure, consider for a moment the current debate about how many undocumented folks we actually have. There is a big argument in the greater LA basin right now as to whether we are closer to 1 or 2 million undocumented. If the 2 million figure is right, then we pretty much have to be at least 25% without health insurance...that is simply how the math works.


As for Albi, that whole situation is a political failure that will continue to cast embarrassment on any current political figure who touches it too often. As such, it will probably have to be an election football for the City Council and Mayor before anything serious will happen. Observer gave a good summary.

Illegal Aliens, Illegal immigrants,

(those immigrants who come to USA, illegally, who by doings so threaten USA border security, increase human trafficking, crime, drugs, terrorism, disease, victimize, become victims, drain valuable resources that should go elsewhere, unfairly use welfare, health insurance, etc, cause extremely bad problems for USA, USA people).

(People, government, media, etc, need to stop calling both illegal alien immigrants and LEGAL immigrants, migrants UNDOCUMENTED, OR MIGRANTS, OR IMMIGRANTS. Grouping Illegal alien immigrants, and LEGAL Migrants, with the same name like undocumented, immigrants, Migrants causes incorrect data collection on both separate groups, causes both groups to be treated the same, as if they are the same, when they are not same, and should not be treated the same, should not have access to same things like insurance, welfare, etc, and it offends people like my Hispanic brother in law who came to USA legally with his parents, and wrongfully enables socialist, communist, marxist, far left radical leftist, anti capitalismist, to wrongfully cast those who support Legal Migrants but are anti Illegal Alien immigrants as racist, anti migrant, anti immigration, when they are not anti immigration.),

Illegal Alien Immigrants, should not be counted as part of the people who do not have health insurance, welfare, medicare, medicaid, social security, etc.

ONLY USA CITIZENS, VISA, GREEN CARD HOLDERS, PERMANENT USA RESIDENTS, LEGAL MIGRANTS, LEGAL TOURIST, LEGAL VISITORS TO USA, SHOULD BE COUNTED FOR PURPOSES OF DETERMINING WHAT PERCENT DO NOT HAVE HEALTH CARE, ETC.

Since Illegal Aliens are grouped into the term Migrants, undocument, that is used to refer to both illegal aliens immigrants, and LEGAL Migrants, and since then illegal Aliens immigrants are wrongfully factored into the percents of people that don't have health, insurance then in order to try to rightfully adjust, correct, get the right percent, then it is needful to remove a guessed about 7 to 13% from your 25% number, that Illegal Alien Immigrants wrongfully factor into a part of.

Thus 12 to 18% of people that can have health insurance, dont have health insurance.

Illegal Aliens should not have have health insurance, and instead that health insurance that illegal Alien Immigrants wrongfully have should be instead given, had by homeless that not illegal aliens immigrants, veterans, homeless vets, etc.