Excellent article.

Glad Cougar

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That's good stuff written from a Big-10 writer's point of view. Here's another point of view from Bill Plaschke of the LA Times. Very arrogant view point, even if what he writes has some truth to it:

"The move by USC and UCLA from the Pac-12 conference to the Big Ten, which was announced Thursday and will take place beginning in 2024, is a bold and brilliant one worthy of the city of champions. Face it, USC had long since outgrown a decaying Pac-12 that had deteriorated into the home of late-night TV games, half-empty stadiums, and national irrelevance … The athletic departments of both schools are packing up and moving from what had become an increasingly isolated West Coast sandlot to a national playing field where the lights are brighter, the crowds are bigger, and the buzz is better. Can you blame them?"

Glad Cougar
 

BSpike76

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Anyone ever play the game “Win as much as you can”? Here’s hoping this ends up the way that game usually does.
 

Coug90

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That's good stuff written from a Big-10 writer's point of view. Here's another point of view from Bill Plaschke of the LA Times. Very arrogant view point, even if what he writes has some truth to it:

"The move by USC and UCLA from the Pac-12 conference to the Big Ten, which was announced Thursday and will take place beginning in 2024, is a bold and brilliant one worthy of the city of champions. Face it, USC had long since outgrown a decaying Pac-12 that had deteriorated into the home of late-night TV games, half-empty stadiums, and national irrelevance … The athletic departments of both schools are packing up and moving from what had become an increasingly isolated West Coast sandlot to a national playing field where the lights are brighter, the crowds are bigger, and the buzz is better. Can you blame them?"

Glad Cougar
With every failure comes opportunity. Population is exploding in the west relative to the rest of the country. There’s great markets/cities and plenty of $$. Larry Scott pooped all over himself with what should have been a golden opportunity to take something good and make it great. The right leadership with the right vision can put this back together to the point where USC/UCLA would want to be back. CFB in the west isn’t dead it’s just been run into the ground by an incompetent leader.
 

TrumpCoug

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With every failure comes opportunity. Population is exploding in the west relative to the rest of the country. There’s great markets/cities and plenty of $$. Larry Scott pooped all over himself with what should have been a golden opportunity to take something good and make it great. The right leadership with the right vision can put this back together to the point where USC/UCLA would want to be back. CFB in the west isn’t dead it’s just been run into the ground by an incompetent leader.
Run into the ground by an incompetent leader seems to be a recent theme these days. Happy Independence Day......oh and F the Bruins, Trojans, Ducks, Huskies, Brandon and Larry Scott.
 
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How_did_this_happen?

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With every failure comes opportunity. Population is exploding in the west relative to the rest of the country. There’s great markets/cities and plenty of $$. Larry Scott pooped all over himself with what should have been a golden opportunity to take something good and make it great. The right leadership with the right vision can put this back together to the point where USC/UCLA would want to be back. CFB in the west isn’t dead it’s just been run into the ground by an incompetent leader.

California lost population last year...and maybe the year before....for the first time. They are heading in the wrong direction.

The Southeast is growing...as is Texas. Granted that Arizona, Utah and Idaho are growing, but not enough.

On the West Coast, we have a cultural issue (not enough people are obsessed with college football) and a time zone problem. We also don't have enough population vs. the rest of the country. Draw a straight line from San Antonio to Fargo and 80% of the US population is east of that line. That explains our problem...plus our time zone.
 
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Flatlandcoug

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With every failure comes opportunity. Population is exploding in the west relative to the rest of the country. There’s great markets/cities and plenty of $$. Larry Scott pooped all over himself with what should have been a golden opportunity to take something good and make it great. The right leadership with the right vision can put this back together to the point where USC/UCLA would want to be back. CFB in the west isn’t dead it’s just been run into the ground by an incompetent leader.

Love the optimism but we are getting ready to be relegated to a much lesser league with a lot less revenue. We won't stop UW from leaving but maybe WSU sympathetic legislators can blackmail the state into helping us balance our athletic finances while we get things straightened out.

At the end of the day, everything is going to be all right. We'll rarely be relevant nationally, but that isn't really all that different than our current lot in life. One Top 10 finish in 19 years does not a powerhouse make. If we end up in the MWC, we'll have some entertaining new opponents to face and who knows, maybe we'll do well enough in that league to win 9 games on a regular basis. Hell, as long as I can watch us on TV or the internet.....I don't really care all that much anymore. Winning 9 games would be more fun than finishing 6-7 half the time (or more).

It's a rough financial future ahead, but MWC teams have been doing it for a while and seem to be getting by.
 

95coug

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Love the optimism but we are getting ready to be relegated to a much lesser league with a lot less revenue. We won't stop UW from leaving but maybe WSU sympathetic legislators can blackmail the state into helping us balance our athletic finances while we get things straightened out.

At the end of the day, everything is going to be all right. We'll rarely be relevant nationally, but that isn't really all that different than our current lot in life. One Top 10 finish in 19 years does not a powerhouse make. If we end up in the MWC, we'll have some entertaining new opponents to face and who knows, maybe we'll do well enough in that league to win 9 games on a regular basis. Hell, as long as I can watch us on TV or the internet.....I don't really care all that much anymore. Winning 9 games would be more fun than finishing 6-7 half the time (or more).

It's a rough financial future ahead, but MWC teams have been doing it for a while and seem to be getting by.
Timing is another big problem. Athletics is in a huge hole, the university has budget issues related to COVID in addition to enrollment being down for the same reason (which means the budget shortfall will continue for the next several years). Research funding is down due to priority shifts in USDA and NSF. And now, this happens, and is sure to tank athletics revenue even further.

I’m sure WSU isn’t the only one in this position. But for WSU it goes beyond athletics, this is a serious problem for the university as a whole.
 

CougPatrol

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Love the optimism but we are getting ready to be relegated to a much lesser league with a lot less revenue. We won't stop UW from leaving but maybe WSU sympathetic legislators can blackmail the state into helping us balance our athletic finances while we get things straightened out.

At the end of the day, everything is going to be all right. We'll rarely be relevant nationally, but that isn't really all that different than our current lot in life. One Top 10 finish in 19 years does not a powerhouse make. If we end up in the MWC, we'll have some entertaining new opponents to face and who knows, maybe we'll do well enough in that league to win 9 games on a regular basis. Hell, as long as I can watch us on TV or the internet.....I don't really care all that much anymore. Winning 9 games would be more fun than finishing 6-7 half the time (or more).

It's a rough financial future ahead, but MWC teams have been doing it for a while and seem to be getting by.
This is my feeling on the matter as well. For as great as the 1988, 1992, 1997, 2002, and 2018 seasons were, WSU has largely been a MWC caliber program for most of the other seasons. We were never going to win a “natty,” and even winning the P12, while remotely possible, would be a 1 in 20 years scenario. The market gap between the whales vs. the rural schools is too wide now.

The adjustment is going to be hard, but I think chasing the super conference dream will be worse for us in the long run. Look at the prospective new B12 conference and explain to me how playing in a conference with Kansas State, TCU, West Virginia, OK State makes sense. Perhaps if they division it out so we’re aligned with Oregon State, Colorado, ASU, Arizona, and Utah, but even then, unless the Bay Area schools and UW and Oregon join, I don’t see it working.

I can’t help but think that while the NIL semi-professional restructuring is going on, maybe the best landing spot for WSU is in a solid West coast G5 league. Maybe the new league will think outside the box and lure Gonzaga and St. Mary’s for basketball and baseball only memberships?

The days of WSU competing at the highest football level are coming to an end. It’s been a fun ride.
 

Flatlandcoug

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This is my feeling on the matter as well. For as great as the 1988, 1992, 1997, 2002, and 2018 seasons were, WSU has largely been a MWC caliber program for most of the other seasons. We were never going to win a “natty,” and even winning the P12, while remotely possible, would be a 1 in 20 years scenario. The market gap between the whales vs. the rural schools is too wide now.

The adjustment is going to be hard, but I think chasing the super conference dream will be worse for us in the long run. Look at the prospective new B12 conference and explain to me how playing in a conference with Kansas State, TCU, West Virginia, OK State makes sense. Perhaps if they division it out so we’re aligned with Oregon State, Colorado, ASU, Arizona, and Utah, but even then, unless the Bay Area schools and UW and Oregon join, I don’t see it working.

I can’t help but think that while the NIL semi-professional restructuring is going on, maybe the best landing spot for WSU is in a solid West coast G5 league. Maybe the new league will think outside the box and lure Gonzaga and St. Mary’s for basketball and baseball only memberships?

The days of WSU competing at the highest football level are coming to an end. It’s been a fun ride.

I wanted to add that the Big 12 adding the Arizona and Mountain schools from the Pac-12 is only staving off the inevitable for them. The time is coming where only 48 teams are going to be at the "elite" level and their best teams are going to be picked off as well. The sad truth for them is that there isn't a single team in the current or future Big 12 that moves the needle nationally. Nobody really cares about Oklahoma State and everyone in the Midwest hates Baylor. KSU isn't terrible, but how many people remember when they were #1 in the BCS in 2012? Or care? Kansas has good basketball but that only goes so far. Texas Tech is closer to WSU than either one of us wants to admit. WSU has as many Top 10 finishes in the past five years as Iowa State has had in their history....and the Cyclones have yet to finish with 10 wins in a single season. Scalping teams from the Pac-12 is going to keep them in the Power 4 if they can lure them away, but they are a distant 3rd at best and when it comes to elite programs, Clemson by itself helps the ACC trump anything that the Big 12 can show. It will be interesting to see which Big 12 teams make the cut when that future consolidation continues.

The upside to an MWC future is that I actually don't mind going to San Diego, Hawaii, and Las Vegas. Fort Collins, Colorado Springs and Laramie are long drives but workable. My daughter is going to school at the Colorado School of Mines so who knows, maybe we'll play in the state while she is still a student.

I would love for WSU to end up in a BigPac conference or whatever you'd want to call it, but at the same time, it would be so sprawling that it wouldn't have much of an identity. My enthusiasm as a fan has faded a lot in the past 5 years and COVID was a great reminder that football doesn't really matter in the big picture. I'll enjoy whatever I get.
 

Glad Cougar

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I wanted to add that the Big 12 adding the Arizona and Mountain schools from the Pac-12 is only staving off the inevitable for them. The time is coming where only 48 teams are going to be at the "elite" level and their best teams are going to be picked off as well. The sad truth for them is that there isn't a single team in the current or future Big 12 that moves the needle nationally. Nobody really cares about Oklahoma State and everyone in the Midwest hates Baylor. KSU isn't terrible, but how many people remember when they were #1 in the BCS in 2012? Or care? Kansas has good basketball but that only goes so far. Texas Tech is closer to WSU than either one of us wants to admit. WSU has as many Top 10 finishes in the past five years as Iowa State has had in their history....and the Cyclones have yet to finish with 10 wins in a single season. Scalping teams from the Pac-12 is going to keep them in the Power 4 if they can lure them away, but they are a distant 3rd at best and when it comes to elite programs, Clemson by itself helps the ACC trump anything that the Big 12 can show. It will be interesting to see which Big 12 teams make the cut when that future consolidation continues.

The upside to an MWC future is that I actually don't mind going to San Diego, Hawaii, and Las Vegas. Fort Collins, Colorado Springs and Laramie are long drives but workable. My daughter is going to school at the Colorado School of Mines so who knows, maybe we'll play in the state while she is still a student.

I would love for WSU to end up in a BigPac conference or whatever you'd want to call it, but at the same time, it would be so sprawling that it wouldn't have much of an identity. My enthusiasm as a fan has faded a lot in the past 5 years and COVID was a great reminder that football doesn't really matter in the big picture. I'll enjoy whatever I get.
My opinion is pretty close to yours and Patrol's. But despite a history that doesn't include very many nationally ranked teams, WSU still enjoys the possibility of having those good seasons that puts us on the national radar– as long as WSU is associated with a top level conference (P5). Being able to play at that top level attracts better recruits, aids fundraising, and generally provides a culture at the school that is only found at a limited number of schools. Also, playing against the top level schools provides the university with exposure it may not get otherwise, regardless if the Cougars win or lose. It also gives us fans an opportunity to generally see our teams c compete against many of the best athletes in the country simply by virtue of playing at the top level.

WSU is not considered a big-time player in college athletics, but it competes at the big-time level. That has a lot of value. You drop down into a lesser conference and all of that goes away and probably doesn't ever come back. It then becomes an individual choice as to whether, as a fan, you are okay with that. I haven't decided yet, but I do know that a lot of the unique experiences & memories I have of Cougar athletics have been tied to the school's status as a member of a storied and prestigious conference. A Mountain West team isn't going to have a chance to play in a couple of Rose Bowls.

Anyway, I may end up taking C-Patrol's fatalistic approach to all this. There isn't a real good answer now that so much has been set into motion.

Glad Cougar
 

CougPatrol

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The top several programs in the MWC averaged between 25-35K fans/game. Those are WSU numbers.
 

triscuit one

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My opinion is pretty close to yours and Patrol's. But despite a history that doesn't include very many nationally ranked teams, WSU still enjoys the possibility of having those good seasons that puts us on the national radar– as long as WSU is associated with a top level conference (P5). Being able to play at that top level attracts better recruits, aids fundraising, and generally provides a culture at the school that is only found at a limited number of schools. Also, playing against the top level schools provides the university with exposure it may not get otherwise, regardless if the Cougars win or lose. It also gives us fans an opportunity to generally see our teams c compete against many of the best athletes in the country simply by virtue of playing at the top level.

WSU is not considered a big-time player in college athletics, but it competes at the big-time level. That has a lot of value. You drop down into a lesser conference and all of that goes away and probably doesn't ever come back. It then becomes an individual choice as to whether, as a fan, you are okay with that. I haven't decided yet, but I do know that a lot of the unique experiences & memories I have of Cougar athletics have been tied to the school's status as a member of a storied and prestigious conference. A Mountain West team isn't going to have a chance to play in a couple of Rose Bowls.

Anyway, I may end up taking C-Patrol's fatalistic approach to all this. There isn't a real good answer now that so much has been set into motion.

Glad Cougar
Some of what you wrote echos my concern with joining the Mountian West.

If we joined, you would think we will be one of the top program in football, due to our recent success and money spent on facilities. But how long does that last especially if we are paying for past debt with reduced rescouces? We used to recruit against many MW programs, but always could pull the Pac-12 card. What does our recruiting look like without that P5 membership?

Also, let say in five + years this superconference thing implodes and there is a new "Pac" created. Will WSU get a seat at the table or do Frenso, SDSU, etc jump over us?

That being said I am not anti-joining the Mountian West if it has to come to that.
 
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CougEd

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Love the optimism but we are getting ready to be relegated to a much lesser league with a lot less revenue. We won't stop UW from leaving but maybe WSU sympathetic legislators can blackmail the state into helping us balance our athletic finances while we get things straightened out.

At the end of the day, everything is going to be all right. We'll rarely be relevant nationally, but that isn't really all that different than our current lot in life. One Top 10 finish in 19 years does not a powerhouse make. If we end up in the MWC, we'll have some entertaining new opponents to face and who knows, maybe we'll do well enough in that league to win 9 games on a regular basis. Hell, as long as I can watch us on TV or the internet.....I don't really care all that much anymore. Winning 9 games would be more fun than finishing 6-7 half the time (or more).

It's a rough financial future ahead, but MWC teams have been doing it for a while and seem to be getting by.
We could become Idaho continually searching for the right economic fit.
 

CougEd

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I wanted to add that the Big 12 adding the Arizona and Mountain schools from the Pac-12 is only staving off the inevitable for them. The time is coming where only 48 teams are going to be at the "elite" level and their best teams are going to be picked off as well. The sad truth for them is that there isn't a single team in the current or future Big 12 that moves the needle nationally. Nobody really cares about Oklahoma State and everyone in the Midwest hates Baylor. KSU isn't terrible, but how many people remember when they were #1 in the BCS in 2012? Or care? Kansas has good basketball but that only goes so far. Texas Tech is closer to WSU than either one of us wants to admit. WSU has as many Top 10 finishes in the past five years as Iowa State has had in their history....and the Cyclones have yet to finish with 10 wins in a single season. Scalping teams from the Pac-12 is going to keep them in the Power 4 if they can lure them away, but they are a distant 3rd at best and when it comes to elite programs, Clemson by itself helps the ACC trump anything that the Big 12 can show. It will be interesting to see which Big 12 teams make the cut when that future consolidation continues.

The upside to an MWC future is that I actually don't mind going to San Diego, Hawaii, and Las Vegas. Fort Collins, Colorado Springs and Laramie are long drives but workable. My daughter is going to school at the Colorado School of Mines so who knows, maybe we'll play in the state while she is still a student.

I would love for WSU to end up in a BigPac conference or whatever you'd want to call it, but at the same time, it would be so sprawling that it wouldn't have much of an identity. My enthusiasm as a fan has faded a lot in the past 5 years and COVID was a great reminder that football doesn't really matter in the big picture. I'll enjoy whatever I get.
Also the truth of the matter is kids don't seem to have the same passion to sustain the support in 15 years. Kids leave games at halftime of a great game. They want the participation moment. They want the video so they can send it to their friends. Not sure my generation would have been different if we had cell phones. So it is not a knock, but it does tell me not just here but other places even like the UW, rabid fans who will argue on the message board and make every home game are not being developed.

Trust me, when the hoops teams have to travel to College Station or College Park in Maryland, it will get old for UCLA and USC....and I would venture to say it will for football teams as well.

USC was just setting itself up to be Pete Carroll dominate...they just screwed the pooch, just like Oklahoma and Texas did. And ESPN and Fox next contract probably won't be as generous.
 

How_did_this_happen?

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Also the truth of the matter is kids don't seem to have the same passion to sustain the support in 15 years. Kids leave games at halftime of a great game. They want the participation moment. They want the video so they can send it to their friends. Not sure my generation would have been different if we had cell phones. So it is not a knock, but it does tell me not just here but other places even like the UW, rabid fans who will argue on the message board and make every home game are not being developed.

Trust me, when the hoops teams have to travel to College Station or College Park in Maryland, it will get old for UCLA and USC....and I would venture to say it will for football teams as well.

USC was just setting itself up to be Pete Carroll dominate...they just screwed the pooch, just like Oklahoma and Texas did. And ESPN and Fox next contract probably won't be as generous.

I don't think the travel for USC and UCLA will be as bad as some think. Just 4-5 road games a year. Those will all be conference games. All noncon games will be at home (except if ND doesn't join). It's not that bad when I think about it. The 3 hour time zone change when that is necessary is more of an issue.
 

COUGinNCW

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I don't think the travel for USC and UCLA will be as bad as some think. Just 4-5 road games a year. Those will all be conference games. All noncon games will be at home (except if ND doesn't join). It's not that bad when I think about it. The 3 hour time zone change when that is necessary is more of an issue.
The travel will suck in all the non revenue sports but I agree, it won’t be that big of a deal in football, especially with charters.
 

roses04

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Travel for football is a minor issue compared to basketball, baseball,softball, soccer, and other Olympic sports
 
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OrangeGravy

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Love the optimism but we are getting ready to be relegated to a much lesser league with a lot less revenue. We won't stop UW from leaving but maybe WSU sympathetic legislators can blackmail the state into helping us balance our athletic finances while we get things straightened out.

At the end of the day, everything is going to be all right. We'll rarely be relevant nationally, but that isn't really all that different than our current lot in life. One Top 10 finish in 19 years does not a powerhouse make. If we end up in the MWC, we'll have some entertaining new opponents to face and who knows, maybe we'll do well enough in that league to win 9 games on a regular basis. Hell, as long as I can watch us on TV or the internet.....I don't really care all that much anymore. Winning 9 games would be more fun than finishing 6-7 half the time (or more).

It's a rough financial future ahead, but MWC teams have been doing it for a while and seem to be getting by.
This little dose of reality is gonna crush Biggs. He thinks there's no reason we shouldn't be competing nationally
 

mikalalas

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This little dose of reality is gonna crush Biggs. He thinks there's no reason we shouldn't be competing nationally

A insider Notre Dame Source according to Sports Illustrated says that Notre Dame doesn't want to go to Big 10 and wants to stay independent.

COMBINED with how a WA legislator named Drew Stokesbary, said that he and Michael Baumgartner, are pushing, expediting FAST, QUICK, ETC, LEGISLATION, that ties UW/WA state together, forbids UW from leaving WSU behind, that UW/WSU has to be a PACKAGED deal either in Pac 12, Big 10, Big 12, Merger between Pac 12/Big 12, Merger between Pac 12/ACC, MWC, etc.

Drew Stokesbary has TOLD UW/WSU presidents, Chancellor's, AD's, Board of Regents, Coaches, etc, and probably has threatened the President's/AD's/Board of Regents, that they had better comply, not try to do things, circumvent things, before the legislation passed, and that if they do that, they will lose all public tax dollars, funding, will be FIRED, etc.

That and what Big 10 has said that they not interested and only interested in Oregon/UW, IF IF ND joins Big 10, and since ND said they won't join Big 10, and since UW/Oregon said they are staying put, and since the Big 12 said they won't raid Big 12, at least for now, and since the rest of the remaining Pac 12 teams said they staying put, and since the Pac 12 said they extremely aggressively will expand, an or merge, and said that a new media deal worth about 300 million, about 30 million a Pac 12 team per year, is being finalized.

Because of all that combined together.

Pac 12 will probably get Iowa St, TCU, Texas Tech, from Big 12, and BSU, UNLV, SDSU, Fresno State, Airforce, to go with Oregon, UW, Stanford, Utah, Cal, Arizona, ASU, Colorado, WSU, Ore St, to become the Pac 18, and then get Rosebowl to renew with Pac 18, and then finalize 300 Mill media deal, then later merge with either Big 12 or ACC.
 

mikalalas

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Love the optimism but we are getting ready to be relegated to a much lesser league with a lot less revenue. We won't stop UW from leaving but maybe WSU sympathetic legislators can blackmail the state into helping us balance our athletic finances while we get things straightened out.

At the end of the day, everything is going to be all right. We'll rarely be relevant nationally, but that isn't really all that different than our current lot in life. One Top 10 finish in 19 years does not a powerhouse make. If we end up in the MWC, we'll have some entertaining new opponents to face and who knows, maybe we'll do well enough in that league to win 9 games on a regular basis. Hell, as long as I can watch us on TV or the internet.....I don't really care all that much anymore. Winning 9 games would be more fun than finishing 6-7 half the time (or more).

It's a rough financial future ahead, but MWC teams have been doing it for a while and seem to be getting by.
A insider Notre Dame Source according to Sports Illustrated says that Notre Dame doesn't want to go to Big 10 and wants to stay independent.

COMBINED with how a WA legislator named Drew Stokesbary, said that he and Michael Baumgartner, are pushing, expediting FAST, QUICK, ETC, LEGISLATION, that ties UW/WA state together, forbids UW from leaving WSU behind, that UW/WSU has to be a PACKAGED deal either in Pac 12, Big 10, Big 12, Merger between Pac 12/Big 12, Merger between Pac 12/ACC, MWC, etc.

Drew Stokesbary has TOLD UW/WSU presidents, Chancellor's, AD's, Board of Regents, Coaches, etc, and probably has threatened the President's/AD's/Board of Regents, that they had better comply, not try to do things, circumvent things, before the legislation passed, and that if they do that, they will lose all public tax dollars, funding, will be FIRED, etc.

That and what Big 10 has said that they not interested and only interested in Oregon/UW, IF IF ND joins Big 10, and since ND said they won't join Big 10, and since UW/Oregon said they are staying put, and since the Big 12 said they won't raid Big 12, at least for now, and since the rest of the remaining Pac 12 teams said they staying put, and since the Pac 12 said they extremely aggressively will expand, an or merge, and said that a new media deal worth about 300 million, about 30 million a Pac 12 team per year, is being finalized.

Because of all that combined together.

Pac 12 will probably get Iowa St, TCU, Texas Tech, from Big 12, and BSU, UNLV, SDSU, Fresno State, Airforce, to go with Oregon, UW, Stanford, Utah, Cal, Arizona, ASU, Colorado, WSU, Ore St, to become the Pac 18, and then get Rosebowl to renew with Pac 18, and then finalize 300 Mill media deal, then later merge with either Big 12 or ACC.
 

etowncoug

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Dropping down to the Mountain West would be a disaster for WSU. We'd lose our best players to the portal, we'd lose most of our TV money (even compared to a reduced P12 payout), leaving us as an underfunded G5 school.

Idaho went from being a below average Indy to a below average Big Sky team. We'd be in the bottom half of the Mountain West almost immediately and it would be a hole we wouldn't be climbing out of any time soon.
 

roses04

Head Coach
Oct 4, 2003
953
843
93
It isn't over until it's over. We can speculate all we want, but we could very well end up in a good place. Unfortunately, I think the traditional leagues as we knew them in the past are gone. The teams at the top will stick around, but the lower half of the teams in each league could end up like the transfer portal and move around every couple of years.
 

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