Final comment on JDL

[Flatlandcoug]

I just wanted to say that even though I'm disappointed that JDL decided to leave, I think he showed a lot of maturity and grace in his public comments on a difficult situation. I don't know what his motivations for leaving were and they really don't matter to me. If someone feels like they need to move on, I'm not going to begrudge that choice. I can't promise to be a fan of his in the future, but I hope that he does well in life.

 

[roses04]

I don't disagree Flat, I am disappointed to see him go, but he signed with Leach and his staff, adopted to Rolo and the new staff, and now has another staff. If it isn't what he was looking for, and he wishes to move on that's his business, it's the way CFB is these days. He was a competitor, he had some flaws, but showed signs of greatness , his AC performance was memorable, I think he could have done great things at WSU, but it's time to move on. Hope he does well, and I just hope he finds what he is looking for.

 

[Wazzubrooz]

But NO wins for him against WSU! also, he can take several hard-nosed, clean sacks against the Cougs! Other than that, best wishes JDL.

 

[Observer11]

With regards to JDL

 

[Stretch 74]

With regards to JDL

You just nailed it!

 

[wsudefense]

The only thing I want when we play him are Sacks!! Hope the defense eats him

 

[NMBRCRNCHR]

The only thing I want when we play him are Sacks!! Hope the defense eats him

Nothing like being a defender and being able to take out a quitter/trader!

 

[Cougsocal]

In an ideal world, every kid is an intense competitor, loves his teammates and is loyal to his school who committed to him. But we don't live in an ideal world. De Laura and the transfer portal kids are a mirror of society as a whole. Things have happened in America over the last couple years we once thought inconceivable. You can't really expect kids to behave on a higher moral plane than their parents and our leaders. We shouldn't be angry with Jayden et al, we should be angry with ourselves. They are our children and a product of the dysfunctional, self centered, society we created for them.

 

[Observer11]

In an ideal world, every kid is an intense competitor, loves his teammates and is loyal to his school who committed to him. But we don't live in an ideal world. De Laura and the transfer portal kids are a mirror of society as a whole. Things have happened in America over the last couple years we once thought inconceivable. You can't really expect kids to behave on a higher moral plane than their parents and our leaders. We shouldn't be angry with Jayden et al, we should be angry with ourselves. They are our children and a product of the dysfunctional, self centered, society we created for them.

The world stopped being ideal when parents started carting their fourth grader to sport ball games hundreds of miles away to play another team from their hometown.

 

[CougInSpain]

The world stopped being ideal when parents started carting their fourth grader to sport ball games hundreds of miles away to play another team from their hometown.

That and participation trophies. The idea you are rewarded for merely "showing up" is a disgusting cultural ideology that will hopefully die out at some point.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

The world stopped being ideal when parents started carting their fourth grader to sport ball games hundreds of miles away to play another team from their hometown.

Reading this just now got me thinking:

Of course you have the regional all-star team(s), full of all the best kids and they curb stomp every other team. And it costs thousands of dollars per trip to get these kids to and from the tournaments that college scouts are allegedly at. But for every all-star team, there are several cannon-fodder teams who's parents are also paying thousands of dollars for said trips, and their kids are getting beaten like a drum at all these tournaments - what keeps them going? Where is the supposed value for them?

 

[NMBRCRNCHR]

Reading this just now got me thinking:

Of course you have the regional all-star team(s), full of all the best kids and they curb stomp every other team. And it costs thousands of dollars per trip to get these kids to and from the tournaments that college scouts are allegedly at. But for every all-star team, there are several cannon-fodder teams who's parents are also paying thousands of dollars for said trips, and their kids are getting beaten like a drum at all these tournaments - what keeps them going? Where is the supposed value for them?

Status...being able to say your kud plays on a "select" team. Kids sports have been ruined by parents.

 

[Observer11]

That and participation trophies. The idea you are rewarded for merely "showing up" is a disgusting cultural ideology that will hopefully die out at some point.

Ultimately, Darwinism wins out. Survival of the fittest, baby.

This would be an appropriate place to hijack to a Covid discussion:

 

[425cougfan]

Won't be popular, but I think it's easy to say someone should compete when the smarter move is to look at the writing on the wall.

Let's say you're at a job and just did pretty well. You're trying to make your mark, feed your family, and whatever. Your boss who hired you is canned, a new guy comes in, and he's bringing in his "star" in the same role as you in order to compete with you.

Sound like a situation where it's the smart move to stick around and "compete" with your career, livelihood, and family's economic well-being on the line? Easy to say someone else should do it but it gets a lot more real when you put yourself in someone else's shoes.

 

[FnuLnu]

Ultimately, Darwinism wins out. Survival of the fittest, baby.

This would be an appropriate place to hijack to a Covid discussion:

Saw my first "participation trophy" 18u team last year.

For spring sports there hasn't been a normal HS season since 2019. Parents still acting like "everybody plays" going to continue.

 

[Coug90]

Ultimately, Darwinism wins out. Survival of the fittest, baby.

This would be an appropriate place to hijack to a Covid discussion:

Let’s not but I agree. At the end of the day the mentality of this staff is to build a championship program and you need players to do it. Ward has that type of potential to be a difference maker. Nobody’s job is safe on a team that has that mentality and everyone is better for it. Alabama NC, they yanked Jalen Hurts! And they won. And both Jalen and Tua both have rings because of it and are better off for going through it and handling it the way they did. Dickert/Morris are not messing around and 8-5 and a mid-tier bowl isn’t what they are gunning for.

 

[Cougsocal]

The world stopped being ideal when parents started carting their fourth grader to sport ball games hundreds of miles away to play another team from their hometown.

Aah, the racket that is club sports! If you don't pay hundreds each month, and don't spend your weekends across state lines bored out of your mind, you aren't a good parent. Sadly, we should have learnt the lesson of Todd and Marv Marinovich. It wasn't until my fourth of five kids, that I realized you wait until your kids beg and beg for it, before you open your wallet for the "extra training." Guess what, they never do, and are happier playing "multiple" sports in high school.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Won't be popular, but I think it's easy to say someone should compete when the smarter move is to look at the writing on the wall.

Let's say you're at a job and just did pretty well. You're trying to make your mark, feed your family, and whatever. Your boss who hired you is canned, a new guy comes in, and he's bringing in his "star" in the same role as you in order to compete with you.

Sound like a situation where it's the smart move to stick around and "compete" with your career, livelihood, and family's economic well-being on the line? Easy to say someone else should do it but it gets a lot more real when you put yourself in someone else's shoes.

I guess that depends on what your own self-image and self-belief is: are you THE star or not? If you believe you are the best at what you are doing and the metrics back it, then how threatened should you be? Maybe the new boss and his "star" set the bar really low (like competing FCS), so its not even really a comparison.

That being said, I think your analogy is a little flawed. It would be closer to "new boss brings in star talent AND a new process - one that is similar to yours but is going to take some learning. NOW, do you have the skill set to be a good learner AND excel at the job?"

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Aah, the racket that is club sports! If you don't pay hundreds each month, and don't spend your weekends across state lines bored out of your mind, you aren't a good parent. Sadly, we should have learnt the lesson of Todd and Marv Marinovich. It wasn't until my fourth of five kids, that I realized you wait until your kids beg and beg for it, before you open your wallet for the "extra training." Guess what, they never do, and are happier playing "multiple" sports in high school.

Here's one, and I couldn't (actually I can, but I digress) believe that this was actually a thing:

We took our kid to a martial arts school, just to get him active and involved in something. He's smaller and not overly athletic, so we figured that it would be a good intro to something physical (he was 9). Long story short, as long as you paid your monthly dues AND the "belt charge fee", your kid would progress at every belt ceremony, whether they were competent or not. How do I know? I saw a kid who was obviously on the spectrum receiving his BLACK BELT, despite not being able to do the form correctly - I mean, not even close. I don't care what "belt" or "award" you give who, but isn't there a danger in sending a kid out in the world with the false knowledge that he could defend himself?

Anyway, we have a friend who is an MMA instructor/ fighter and we sent my kid up to learn BJJ. Much better, and they really had to earn each and every stripe, and (surprise) no extra fees to progress to the next rank.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

That and participation trophies. The idea you are rewarded for merely "showing up" is a disgusting cultural ideology that will hopefully die out at some point.

I read an interesting post from a younger person about participation trophies. It basically said that the people who are b!tching about the participation trophies are in the same generation that decided to hand them out. Instead of griping about the kids, gripe about the parents that have been terrible role models and decision makers.

FWIW, there is a time and place for participation trophies where it's a good thing. Young kids (middle school and younger) don't need to get caught up in the competitive BS that comes along later. My kids played on rec teams until high school in a small suburb that focused on the team aspect of the sports and it was a good experience for them overall. Flag football, teeball, soccer and basketball were great. The only sport where it didn't work was kid pitch baseball. Too much skill required to pitch well and all the better players were in competitive leagues. My kids played in that rec league for 7 years and it was great experience without a single championship trophy handed out.

That league did a good job about just having fun and some may view it as a disgusting cultural ideology....but my kids had a great time and both my wife and I helped coach teams and enjoyed doing it. We still wanted to win our games....but it was more about personal pride and teamwork and less about hoisting some fake a$$ trophy over our heads that nobody in the world really cared about. If you want to know what's really disgusting.....it's the notion that the world is somehow better (or worse) because Georgia beat Alabama in a football game on Monday night. It's disgusting that some people get angry and upset when their team loses a game. If college football just disappeared over night........most of our lives would only be changed by having extra time to do something else.

I don't buy into any complaints about "kids these days" and I think that it's lazy to rant about participation trophies. We have much, much bigger problems in our world than kids not feeling beholden to a university for 4-5 years.

 

[425cougfan]

I guess that depends on what your own self-image and self-belief is: are you THE star or not? If you believe you are the best at what you are doing and the metrics back it, then how threatened should you be? Maybe the new boss and his "star" set the bar really low (like competing FCS), so its not even really a comparison.

That being said, I think your analogy is a little flawed. It would be closer to "new boss brings in star talent AND a new process - one that is similar to yours but is going to take some learning. NOW, do you have the skill set to be a good learner AND excel at the job?"

I hear your points, and ultimately, any QB who wants to play in P5 must beat out talented competitors. JdL will have competition at Arizona, and he'll have to learn a new system there, too. He won't be able to run over to the sideline to get plays like he did in 2020 with Rolo, and some of his competitors there already have learned and worked through Fisch's system. More generally, he certainly will need to compete if he ever is going to cash an NFL paycheck. To have a shot at that, though, everyone other than Matt Cassell needs to play.

As for that analogy I gave, while no analogy from normal careers can be perfectly analogous to QBs competing for PT, there are reasons to view JdL as even more rational in looking elsewhere than someone in that hypo I gave.

First, I didn't want to make it a novel so I deleted this, but unlike everyday people who might stick around and give things a shot (even with the new boss and the hotshot rival), able to leave anytime they can find something they like better and start there immediately, it's possible in a QB situation to not win the job and just never get on the field, despite doing pretty well on the practice field as the QB continues to learn and develop, maybe even better than the guy who wins the job.

Also, unlike the everyday worker who can give things a go and bail at any time, realistically, these QBs need to make moves at certain times or be stuck losing a year of precious eligibility. Joe Worker might just "waste" months in a situation with little chance of coming out on top, but he's still getting paid. JdL, if he sticks around despite knowing the uphill battle he might face with Morris/Ward, risks losing a whole year of experience and getting tape and exposure.

Third, this is consistent with your point, not arguing against it, but not only has the new OC here brought in his guy, he has a new system. Not only would JdL have to learn it and work to excel in it, but the guy he is competing against already has (albeit at a lower level).

Anyway, the main reason I brought this up was to get people to try to put themselves in his shoes and consider the downsides. It's easy to say somebody shouldn't be a ____ and should compete. That's my reflexive thought, too. Nobody wants players to bail when facing competition, whether a result of growing up in a culture of daddy ball and participation trophies or something else. But when you're the one facing the downside of a situation that doesn't go your way, there's more at stake.

 

[425cougfan]

. . . If you want to know what's really disgusting.....it's the notion that the world is somehow better (or worse) because Georgia beat Alabama in a football game on Monday night. It's disgusting that some people get angry and upset when their team loses a game. If college football just disappeared over night........most of our lives would only be changed by having extra time to do something else.

If that's the standard, I've been pretty damned disgusting over the years. Not going and killing the rival's tree (Bama/Auburn), getting in fights, kicking the dog, or anything like that -- I and our fans generally are and have been pretty reasonable -- but I've definitely had some long drives back on Highway 26 and some weekends that pretty much were ruined as the result of being pissed about the Cougs losing a game.

Less so now, especially after the past couple years. Interesting to think about what it means that so many people care less about these things now, though, and the implications of the same. Something for another thread.

 

[CougInSpain]

I read an interesting post from a younger person about participation trophies. It basically said that the people who are b!tching about the participation trophies are in the same generation that decided to hand them out. Instead of griping about the kids, gripe about the parents that have been terrible role models and decision makers.

FWIW, there is a time and place for participation trophies where it's a good thing. Young kids (middle school and younger) don't need to get caught up in the competitive BS that comes along later. My kids played on rec teams until high school in a small suburb that focused on the team aspect of the sports and it was a good experience for them overall. Flag football, teeball, soccer and basketball were great. The only sport where it didn't work was kid pitch baseball. Too much skill required to pitch well and all the better players were in competitive leagues. My kids played in that rec league for 7 years and it was great experience without a single championship trophy handed out.

That league did a good job about just having fun and some may view it as a disgusting cultural ideology....but my kids had a great time and both my wife and I helped coach teams and enjoyed doing it. We still wanted to win our games....but it was more about personal pride and teamwork and less about hoisting some fake a$$ trophy over our heads that nobody in the world really cared about. If you want to know what's really disgusting.....it's the notion that the world is somehow better (or worse) because Georgia beat Alabama in a football game on Monday night. It's disgusting that some people get angry and upset when their team loses a game. If college football just disappeared over night........most of our lives would only be changed by having extra time to do something else.

I don't buy into any complaints about "kids these days" and I think that it's lazy to rant about participation trophies. We have much, much bigger problems in our world than kids not feeling beholden to a university for 4-5 years.

First of all, my comment was pretty much directed at parents/coaches/event organizers who've created this phenomenon. I don't blame the kids that believe they should be praised in exchange for minimal effort. That is obviously learned and taught behavior from parents and role models alike. Participation trophies are part of a root problem with how the youth view the world. As if they are owed or at the very least, expect everything to be handed to them. Accountability is lost on these kids and it stems from the much bigger issue of parental guidance. The fact that you feel the need to respond to this as a personal attack to the decisions you've made with your own children only shows that the point of the message is lost on you. This wasn't about the kids, its about parents not holding their children responsible and/or accountable for pretty much anything, creating a "What's in it for me?" culture.

 

[kougkurt]

 

[Coug4life34]

Won't be popular, but I think it's easy to say someone should compete when the smarter move is to look at the writing on the wall.

Let's say you're at a job and just did pretty well. You're trying to make your mark, feed your family, and whatever. Your boss who hired you is canned, a new guy comes in, and he's bringing in his "star" in the same role as you in order to compete with you.

Sound like a situation where it's the smart move to stick around and "compete" with your career, livelihood, and family's economic well-being on the line? Easy to say someone else should do it but it gets a lot more real when you put yourself in someone else's shoes.

Thank you, finally some common sense. I, nor anyone with intelligence would compete for something that someone else is offering to be given. Call yourself altruistic, hard working, or having some intestinal fortitude that the rest of us lack… I call it dumb… The transfer portal may be to blame, I personally consider it to be free market Economics… Some will benefit from their decision some will lose out, but the market will dictate… Not the version of college athletics that I prefer or an accustomed to.. But, I’m happy that the athletes finally get to determine their own outcomes…. Sick of the only beneficiary being the NCAA and it’s cronies?!

 

[Flatlandcoug]

First of all, my comment was pretty much directed at parents/coaches/event organizers who've created this phenomenon. I don't blame the kids that believe they should be praised in exchange for minimal effort. That is obviously learned and taught behavior from parents and role models alike. Participation trophies are part of a root problem with how the youth view the world. As if they are owed or at the very least, expect everything to be handed to them. Accountability is lost on these kids and it stems from the much bigger issue of parental guidance. The fact that you feel the need to respond to this as a personal attack to the decisions you've made with your own children only shows that the point of the message is lost on you. This wasn't about the kids, its about parents not holding their children responsible and/or accountable for pretty much anything, creating a "What's in it for me?" culture.

And I think you are missing the point. You didn't mention parents/coaches/organizers.....you complained about the kids. And regardless, sometimes just doing your part as part of a team and having fun is more important than holding some worthless a$$ trophy over your head. Not every kid is cut out to be a competitive athlete but every kid benefits from being involved in youth sports where it isn't some toxic bullsh!t. It's ok to just go out and have fun and enjoy a juice box when the game is over.

There is a point where it is no longer about "participation" and it is about competition and winning. Truthfully, for all the BS commentary about participation trophies, youth sports at that level is arguably more competitive than it's ever been. I've got co-workers and friends that absolutely obsess about the success of their kids club teams and it's a far higher level of involvement and competitiveness than I saw as a middle or high schooler back in the day. I know people that have a lot of investment in the outcomes of their kid's performance that goes way beyond, "Good job showing up today, Timmy!".

At the end of the day, all this yacking about "participation trophies" is just a riff on the good ol' "kids these days" BS that old people love to throw out. Just old people b!tching about young people.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

And I think you are missing the point. You didn't mention parents/coaches/organizers.....you complained about the kids. And regardless, sometimes just doing your part as part of a team and having fun is more important than holding some worthless a$$ trophy over your head. Not every kid is cut out to be a competitive athlete but every kid benefits from being involved in youth sports where it isn't some toxic bullsh!t. It's ok to just go out and have fun and enjoy a juice box when the game is over.

There is a point where it is no longer about "participation" and it is about competition and winning. Truthfully, for all the BS commentary about participation trophies, youth sports at that level is arguably more competitive than it's ever been. I've got co-workers and friends that absolutely obsess about the success of their kids club teams and it's a far higher level of involvement and competitiveness than I saw as a middle or high schooler back in the day. I know people that have a lot of investment in the outcomes of their kid's performance that goes way beyond, "Good job showing up today, Timmy!".

At the end of the day, all this yacking about "participation trophies" is just a riff on the good ol' "kids these days" BS that old people love to throw out. Just old people b!tching about young people.

Nah. Perspectives are skewed.

Parent's are posting stuff about their kids mediocre JC exploits like they just won the Superbowl (or whatever.) I've no problem being proud and encouraging of your kid, but the disillusion is pretending like I should be impressed that your kid scored 6 points and 1 assist off the bench as a senior. I'm genuinely happy for you and happy for them - I'm sure the experience has been great - but can we stop with the "oh my gawd, thats incredible" routine?

 

[FnuLnu]

And I think you are missing the point. You didn't mention parents/coaches/organizers.....you complained about the kids. And regardless, sometimes just doing your part as part of a team and having fun is more important than holding some worthless a$$ trophy over your head. Not every kid is cut out to be a competitive athlete but every kid benefits from being involved in youth sports where it isn't some toxic bullsh!t. It's ok to just go out and have fun and enjoy a juice box when the game is over.

There is a point where it is no longer about "participation" and it is about competition and winning. Truthfully, for all the BS commentary about participation trophies, youth sports at that level is arguably more competitive than it's ever been. I've got co-workers and friends that absolutely obsess about the success of their kids club teams and it's a far higher level of involvement and competitiveness than I saw as a middle or high schooler back in the day. I know people that have a lot of investment in the outcomes of their kid's performance that goes way beyond, "Good job showing up today, Timmy!".

At the end of the day, all this yacking about "participation trophies" is just a riff on the good ol' "kids these days" BS that old people love to throw out. Just old people b!tching about young people.

Bolded part: Today is better than your childhood in what? Central Washington in the late 1980s? That is like saying Joe Biden is a better president than Abe Lincoln because you have a cellphone now.

From occassionally being on the "factory floor" of these select slaughterhouses, things aren't better than they were 10 years ago.

Many of these teams are sops to mediocre white kids and their rich families.

"Oh the troubles I've seen"

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Bolded part: Today is better than your childhood in what? Central Washington in the late 1980s? That is like saying Joe Biden is a better president than Abe Lincoln because you have a cellphone now.

From occassionally being on the "factory floor" of these select slaughterhouses, things aren't better than they were 10 years ago.

Many of these teams are sops to mediocre white kids and their rich families.

"Oh the troubles I've seen"

Ummmm....I didn't say better. I said that parents expect more from kids sports today than they did 40 years ago. It's way more competitive and less participatory than it was back then. You aren't wrong that coaches are absolutely going to take money from any chump who wants to pay up.....but most of them are focused on winning...not participation.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Nah. Perspectives are skewed.

Parent's are posting stuff about their kids mediocre JC exploits like they just won the Superbowl (or whatever.) I've no problem being proud and encouraging of your kid, but the disillusion is pretending like I should be impressed that your kid scored 6 points and 1 assist off the bench as a senior. I'm genuinely happy for you and happy for them - I'm sure the experience has been great - but can we stop with the "oh my gawd, thats incredible" routine?

I get that some parents are overzealous, but that's the opposite of the participation trophy discussion. The parents I've seen aren't patting their kids on the back for showing up. Maybe it's different here in Kansas....but youth baseball in Kansas is f'ing cutthroat business. I got to listen to my co-worker complain about his daughter getting cut from a youth volleyball team despite the fact that she's a starter for the high school team. Sh!t is not about participation at all. It's kind of gross and out of touch....but it's got nothing to do with getting a participation trophy.

It's why the whole participation trophy routine feels like a lazy "kids these days" update rather than anything legitimate.

 

[Glad Cougar]

At the end of the day, all this yacking about "participation trophies" is just a riff on the good ol' "kids these days" BS that old people love to throw out. Just old people b!tching about young people.

And young people b!tching about old people b!tching about young people.

Glad Cougar

 

[FnuLnu]

I get that some parents are overzealous, but that's the opposite of the participation trophy discussion. The parents I've seen aren't patting their kids on the back for showing up. Maybe it's different here in Kansas....but youth baseball in Kansas is f'ing cutthroat business. I got to listen to my co-worker complain about his daughter getting cut from a youth volleyball team despite the fact that she's a starter for the high school team. Sh!t is not about participation at all. It's kind of gross and out of touch....but it's got nothing to do with getting a participation trophy.

It's why the whole participation trophy routine feels like a lazy "kids these days" update rather than anything legitimate.

Can't assume much with HS tryouts - you never know who is running the team and the program.

1. They could be "in it to win it" and stacked with good players
2. Team could be a "funding source" for a select coach (who will pick players from his summer team for his/her school team)
3. Math teacher could be the coach or for baseball/softball/tennis just somebody who is available at 3pm on weekdays
4. Coach of Sport A also coaches Sport B and will roster players from Sport B (often football coach handed the baseball reigns doing this)
4. Program can be openly "rec" - nothing wrong with that
5. Program can be openly 'rec" and on "warm body" status - no cuts. Seen exchange students make teams while another school 2 miles away select kids were getting cut.