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Fun new off topic - Ore-Ida

Loyal Coug1

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Sounds like a bag of potatoes, eh?

I assume some of you have been following this thing. I've only been to Eastern Oregon a few times (Wallowa Lake, Milton-Freewater). But there must be some serious rednecks in that 2/3 of the state. I mean really. I guess Eastern Washington is next.


 
Sounds like a bag of potatoes, eh?

I assume some of you have been following this thing. I've only been to Eastern Oregon a few times (Wallowa Lake, Milton-Freewater). But there must be some serious rednecks in that 2/3 of the state. I mean really. I guess Eastern Washington is next.


Remember, this is the region that pulled a hostile takeover of a federal facility already - that wildlife refuge or something near Burns. There’s not that many of them, but they’re a deep red state. Idahoans would think they’re rednecks.

There have been proposals for years about combining eastern oregon & eastern Washington as a new state (Columbia). I read an economic analysis that said that state would rank #49 in economy, and the state tax rate would have to be huge just to have basic services due to the low population (And E. Oregon has way less population and industry than E. WA). Gotta think combining E. OR with Idaho wouldn’t be much better.
 
Remember, this is the region that pulled a hostile takeover of a federal facility already - that wildlife refuge or something near Burns. There’s not that many of them, but they’re a deep red state. Idahoans would think they’re rednecks.

There have been proposals for years about combining eastern oregon & eastern Washington as a new state (Columbia). I read an economic analysis that said that state would rank #49 in economy, and the state tax rate would have to be huge just to have basic services due to the low population (And E. Oregon has way less population and industry than E. WA). Gotta think combining E. OR with Idaho wouldn’t be much better.

I think it's a bit of an over-reach to say "the region that pulled a hostile takeover..." The BLM facility that was taken over happened to be in eastern Oregon, but I'm pretty sure the people leading the takeover and responsible for it (Bundy's, etc...) were from elsewhere. The same can be said for a large majority of the supporters and demonstrators that were front and center on cameras. (Various militia groups and patriot groups from all over the US flocked to E Oregon to get their 15 seconds of fame and be at ground zero of the next big thing.) Most of the native Oregonians there were disgusted by the mob that took over the area and what was taking place, and couldn't wait for all the BS to end so they could get their lives back.

I fully agree on your economic take if that absorption of E Oregon into Idaho were to occur. (I understand why the people of E Oregon would want to join Idaho , but I'm not sure what the benefit is to Idaho? That's got to be a tough financial sell.) This whole thing will be entertaining to watch as it unfolds. I'm surprised it's gotten this much traction.
 
I think it's a bit of an over-reach to say "the region that pulled a hostile takeover..." The BLM facility that was taken over happened to be in eastern Oregon, but I'm pretty sure the people leading the takeover and responsible for it (Bundy's, etc...) were from elsewhere. The same can be said for a large majority of the supporters and demonstrators that were front and center on cameras. (Various militia groups and patriot groups from all over the US flocked to E Oregon to get their 15 seconds of fame and be at ground zero of the next big thing.) Most of the native Oregonians there were disgusted by the mob that took over the area and what was taking place, and couldn't wait for all the BS to end so they could get their lives back.

I fully agree on your economic take if that absorption of E Oregon into Idaho were to occur. (I understand why the people of E Oregon would want to join Idaho , but I'm not sure what the benefit is to Idaho? That's got to be a tough financial sell.) This whole thing will be entertaining to watch as it unfolds. I'm surprised it's gotten this much traction.
Observing from a distance, it seems like the east-west disconnect and distribution of resources is even more stark in E. Oregon than in E. WA. Part of it is the lack of population and economic base, but it’s completely different worlds. It’s a massive left to right move going from portland to Pendleton, and it’s probably just about as far going from Pendleton to John day or Burns.
 
Has anyone ever considered that, rather than calling the inhabitants of the rural Eastern OR/Eastern WA 'rednecks', that just perhaps they have a basis for not wanting to be associated with their west of the Cascades counterparts?
 
Has anyone ever considered that, rather than calling the inhabitants of the rural Eastern OR/Eastern WA 'rednecks', that just perhaps they have a basis for not wanting to be associated with their west of the Cascades counterparts?

Lol. Yep. I tend not to be bothered by that tho, as I don't find redneck offensive. (I live in N Idaho and am pretty sure I qualify for that label). If I lived in E Oregon I'd want to swap allegiance too. As an Idahoan tho, that's a big chunk of real estate w/o much tax base to pay for itself.
 
Lol. Yep. I tend not to be bothered by that tho, as I don't find redneck offensive. (I live in N Idaho and am pretty sure I qualify for that label). If I lived in E Oregon I'd want to swap allegiance too. As an Idahoan tho, that's a big chunk of real estate w/o much tax base to pay for itself.
Not to worry. Those of us in Idaho will be able to sue the west siders for massive amounts of reparations since those elites have called us names and discriminated against us for years and years! Those dirty bastards owe us $5,000,000 each, plus an annual income of $97,000 each for doing nothing, as well as sell us all a home for $1.00. Mine should be Coeur d'Alene Lake waterfront and have a 10,000 sf shop with it.
 
Has anyone ever considered that, rather than calling the inhabitants of the rural Eastern OR/Eastern WA 'rednecks', that just perhaps they have a basis for not wanting to be associated with their west of the Cascades counterparts?
Would you prefer "racist rednecks"? Or how about "toothless, uneducated Trump lovers"?

You know what an Idaho girl says to her boyfriend after sex? "Hey Dad, get off me, you're crushing my smokes".

Mostly tongue in cheek here, I'm no liberal. But for Ruffrider and who else lives in N. Idaho?, I recall the church in - shit - Rathdrum or Athol? - that had some degrading "women should honor and submit to their men" message in front of the church.

And no, Colfax and Ritzville, home to two of our state reps, are the most backwards rednecked bunch of F***s to inhabit the earth. Thank Gawd for Pullman.
 
Would you prefer "racist rednecks"? Or how about "toothless, uneducated Trump lovers"?

You know what an Idaho girl says to her boyfriend after sex? "Hey Dad, get off me, you're crushing my smokes".

Mostly tongue in cheek here, I'm no liberal. But for Ruffrider and who else lives in N. Idaho?, I recall the church in - shit - Rathdrum or Athol? - that had some degrading "women should honor and submit to their men" message in front of the church.

And no, Colfax and Ritzville, home to two of our state reps, are the most backwards rednecked bunch of F***s to inhabit the earth. Thank Gawd for Pullman.
So I take it you’ve never been to Metaline Falls?
 
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Would you prefer "racist rednecks"? Or how about "toothless, uneducated Trump lovers"?
I'm partial to "redneck hick". It's short and simple. "Redneck racist" is OK, but it just doesnt roll off the tongue, especially after youve knocked back a couple White Claws (or whatever you sophisticates prefer these days). "Toothless, uneducated Trump lovers" has way too many syllables for us -- gonna go right over our heads and totally miss the mark.
 
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Mostly tongue in cheek here, I'm no liberal. But for Ruffrider and who else lives in N. Idaho?, I recall the church in - shit - Rathdrum or Athol? - that had some degrading "women should honor and submit to their men" message in front of the church.
Ya know, those niche groups and weird cult-like "church" groups pop up once in a while, but never seem to last. I cringe every time i hear of one, but honestly I think they tend to get noticed in the first place because they stand out like sore thumbs in what are generally pretty conservative areas. (If you dropped them in the middle of a city, they'd simply get lost in the noise.) I think they show up here in the first place because they were able (strong emphasis on "were" because that's no longer the case) to find inexpensive land and there's a strong "mind your own business" mentallity here, but i dont think they find much community support. Most seem to disappear into the woodwork not too long after they become front page news.

To be honest, even with the occasional weird cult/church that makes the news as well as being the butt of the occasional redneck/hick/marry-your-cousin jokes, it's
a no-brainer living here vs areas where the enlightened and advanced mentalities have ushered in the likes of CHAZ in Seattle, the warzone in downtown Portland, and the rapid deterioration of places like San Francisco.

In short, I think that's why you see E Oregon folks wanting to join Idaho. They're scared to death that the progress their leaders have brought to the west side will eventually leak over into the east side.
 
Ya know, those niche groups and weird cult-like "church" groups pop up once in a while, but never seem to last. I cringe every time i hear of one, but honestly I think they tend to get noticed in the first place because they stand out like sore thumbs in what are generally pretty conservative areas. (If you dropped them in the middle of a city, they'd simply get lost in the noise.) I think they show up here in the first place because they were able (strong emphasis on "were" because that's no longer the case) to find inexpensive land and there's a strong "mind your own business" mentallity here, but i dont think they find much community support. Most seem to disappear into the woodwork not too long after they become front page news.

To be honest, even with the occasional weird cult/church that makes the news as well as being the butt of the occasional redneck/hick/marry-your-cousin jokes, it's
a no-brainer living here vs areas where the enlightened and advanced mentalities have ushered in the likes of CHAZ in Seattle, the warzone in downtown Portland, and the rapid deterioration of places like San Francisco.

In short, I think that's why you see E Oregon folks wanting to join Idaho. They're scared to death that the progress their leaders have brought to the west side will eventually leak over into the east side.
Nice post, Ruffy. Gotta agree with you about Portlandia - what a shit show that place is. As a moderate, it just bums me that we are so polar these days. Left wing freaks, right wing freaks. And the rest of us (not enough) in the middle. But Idaho is pretty out there in general.

Gotta throw in another favorite joke.
Q: What time is it in Montana when you see a sheep caught in barbed wire?
A: Mountin' time.

Get it? Mountain time zone? Bwahahaha
 
Remember, this is the region that pulled a hostile takeover of a federal facility already - that wildlife refuge or something near Burns. There’s not that many of them, but they’re a deep red state. Idahoans would think they’re rednecks.

There have been proposals for years about combining eastern oregon & eastern Washington as a new state (Columbia). I read an economic analysis that said that state would rank #49 in economy, and the state tax rate would have to be huge just to have basic services due to the low population (And E. Oregon has way less population and industry than E. WA). Gotta think combining E. OR with Idaho wouldn’t be much better.
Eastern oregon has been whininhg for years that those of us on the west side "dont listen to them" they lose out on every statewide election or ballot measure and is pisses them off. they want their way on thing but don't seem to understand majority rules
 
Here's a perfect example of why residents of the eastern parts of both states feel as though westside politicians don't give a shit about the "rednecks" on the Eastside. It's not about tax money or anything else. It's about a disconnect regarding the values, lifestyle and economy of the side of the state that doesn't have as many voters as the other. Politicians are all about the votes... nothing else. I mean how in the world did inslee, a guy who grew up in Selah and is the supposed leader of the state, not know about Apple Maggot Quarantine laws? The signs are up on every stinking road in the state and have been for 30 years!

 
Nice post, Ruffy. Gotta agree with you about Portlandia - what a shit show that place is. As a moderate, it just bums me that we are so polar these days. Left wing freaks, right wing freaks. And the rest of us (not enough) in the middle. But Idaho is pretty out there in general.

Gotta throw in another favorite joke.
Q: What time is it in Montana when you see a sheep caught in barbed wire?
A: Mountin' time.

Get it? Mountain time zone? Bwahahaha
... and just about the time I thought I'd heard all the sheep jokes there are, along comes 1 more. And a good one at that. Well played!
 
Here's a perfect example of why residents of the eastern parts of both states feel as though westside politicians don't give a shit about the "rednecks" on the Eastside. It's not about tax money or anything else. It's about a disconnect regarding the values, lifestyle and economy of the side of the state that doesn't have as many voters as the other. Politicians are all about the votes... nothing else. I mean how in the world did inslee, a guy who grew up in Selah and is the supposed leader of the state, not know about Apple Maggot Quarantine laws? The signs are up on every stinking road in the state and have been for 30 years!

Let's not forget this middle finger from Jay Inslee and his tone deaf band of west siders.


 
Yes, the North-south freeway. My dad asked one time "when are the going to finish that thing?" He passed away in 2005' at the age of 84. Weren't they done with I-90 from Seattle to Ohio in about 20 years??
 
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Eastern oregon has been whininhg for years that those of us on the west side "dont listen to them" they lose out on every statewide election or ballot measure and is pisses them off. they want their way on thing but don't seem to understand majority rules
They understand perfectly that "majority rules". They are just sick and tired of there being so many stupid fukken idiots in the majority. Seriously. Is any city in eastern Oregon looking like Portland does these days? I doubt it.
 
Here's a perfect example of why residents of the eastern parts of both states feel as though westside politicians don't give a shit about the "rednecks" on the Eastside. It's not about tax money or anything else. It's about a disconnect regarding the values, lifestyle and economy of the side of the state that doesn't have as many voters as the other. Politicians are all about the votes... nothing else. I mean how in the world did inslee, a guy who grew up in Selah and is the supposed leader of the state, not know about Apple Maggot Quarantine laws? The signs are up on every stinking road in the state and have been for 30 years!

79… I have always thought eastern Washington interests probably align more with Idaho and taxes to pay for rural interests , anywhere damning up the snake to farming needs.

My only question I guess is how does the lifestyle and values vastly differ than mine (live north of Seattle ) ?
 
Eastern oregon has been whininhg for years that those of us on the west side "dont listen to them" they lose out on every statewide election or ballot measure and is pisses them off. they want their way on thing but don't seem to understand majority rules
The problem is that “majority rules” eventually means that the needs of some are being consistently ignored. That’s why there’s discontent on the East sides of oregon and Washington - they’re regularly shown that they don’t matter. Highway construction/repairs get deferred in the East because of lower traffic. landfills and waste facilities, power plants, etc get built in the East to serve the west because the west doesn’t want to see them. Even now, the moves to tear down dams and build wind farms have strong support on the west side, because they get the benefits and don’t suffer the costs. And, the idea of moving to electric vehicles - which is completely impractical in most of eastern Washington - is moving ahead.

Oh…and don’t forget about how we’re reminded every election that our votes are meaningless. Washington can have 38 counties vote no (or red), but King county will go the other way…and we’re all stuck following.
 
79… I have always thought eastern Washington interests probably align more with Idaho and taxes to pay for rural interests , anywhere damning up the snake to farming needs.

My only question I guess is how does the lifestyle and values vastly differ than mine (live north of Seattle ) ?
Ed, I have no idea what your values are so I can't answer that question. However I'm guessing your lifestyle is miles away from the lifestyle of say an orchardist in Wenatchee.
 
Ed, I have no idea what your values are so I can't answer that question. However I'm guessing your lifestyle is miles away from the lifestyle of say an orchardist in Wenatchee.
You are the one who mentioned and indicated the values in eastern Washington are different . Just wondering what your values are that you could see different than those who live in western wa
 
You are the one who mentioned and indicated the values in eastern Washington are different . Just wondering what your values are that you could see different than those who live in western wa
Much more conservative, less government control.
 
Much more conservative, less government control.
That seems pretty generic . Would you mind giving me day five examples of what it means to be more conservative ?

Do you believe you are more fiscally conservative than I am ? Less government ? So you must be like I and really frown upon removing books in Florida, banning a Balck Studies class at a local university . That seems to me to be more government control which I too agree with you .
 
The problem is that “majority rules” eventually means that the needs of some are being consistently ignored. That’s why there’s discontent on the East sides of oregon and Washington - they’re regularly shown that they don’t matter. Highway construction/repairs get deferred in the East because of lower traffic. landfills and waste facilities, power plants, etc get built in the East to serve the west because the west doesn’t want to see them. Even now, the moves to tear down dams and build wind farms have strong support on the west side, because they get the benefits and don’t suffer the costs. And, the idea of moving to electric vehicles - which is completely impractical in most of eastern Washington - is moving ahead.

Oh…and don’t forget about how we’re reminded every election that our votes are meaningless. Washington can have 38 counties vote no (or red), but King county will go the other way…and we’re all stuck following.
Well I agree with you completely on the dams and electric vehicles. Stupid - mandate electric and tear out the dams that provide it. Duh. That said, and it has been quite a while, but I recall a study that concluded that Eastern Washington got more funding in general than the state taxes we pay. Don't know if that still holds or not.
 
That seems pretty generic . Would you mind giving me day five examples of what it means to be more conservative ?

Do you believe you are more fiscally conservative than I am ? Less government ? So you must be like I and really frown upon removing books in Florida, banning a Balck Studies class at a local university . That seems to me to be more government control which I too agree with you .
Oh fer Christ's sake. I'm not going to get into some conservative/liberal pissing match with you guys. I've seen too much of it on this board and you don't see me getting involved.
If you guys don't know by now the difference in mindset between eastern and western Washington and Oregon, I'm sure as hell not going to explain it to you.
 
Mostly tongue in cheek here, I'm no liberal. But for Ruffrider and who else lives in N. Idaho?, I recall the church in - shit - Rathdrum or Athol? - that had some degrading "women should honor and submit to their men" message in front of the church.
You're probably referring to Christ Church, which has a strong presence in Moscow and spreading throughout Latah County.
 
Oh fer Christ's sake. I'm not going to get into some conservative/liberal pissing match with you guys. I've seen too much of it on this board and you don't see me getting involved.
If you guys don't know by now the difference in mindset between eastern and western Washington and Oregon, I'm sure as hell not going to explain it to you.
79 understood . My bad . You mention how eastern Washington is not understood then I ask then you assume I know .

Values …. You have a daughter if I recall at wsu . I think same age as my youngest . I would imagine you have the same values I have when it came to nurturing and helping her grow into the person she is today . I would imagine you had similar values in having her respect those who are different, respect parents teacher and authorities . These are guess of mine but I think we probably share those values .

I think if you were in my neighborhood today and saw the 5 and three year old boys playing soccer, you would have said hello. Maybe even kick the soccer ball with them.

I imagine you have values that are like mine where we pay our bills on time. That we don’t buy anything we can’t afford . And you would do anything not to stiff another person on a bill. Those are probably universal values .

Lifestyle … I would imagine you probably do what I did last night . Go out with friends, have a nice dinner and a spirited convo like I did .

Yes I get eastern Washington’s needs are vastly different than the three major counties on the west side . And I do know number of votes matter . Fair? Like I said eastern wa should be married to Idaho . Not sure why the map was never redrawn .

And if that ever happened and wsu had to be moved .. move to lake Chelan 😜
 
Let's not forget this middle finger from Jay Inslee and his tone deaf band of west siders.


Ah yes...because there hasn't been Arthur B. Langlie (2 terms), Daniel J. Evans, or John Spellman who could've moved this forward since the 1940s...

This governor may be terrible, but yes, let's blame a highway that's been in the works since the 1940s on him.

And FWIW, I think Rossi got screwed in 2004.
 
79 understood . My bad . You mention how eastern Washington is not understood then I ask then you assume I know .

Values …. You have a daughter if I recall at wsu . I think same age as my youngest . I would imagine you have the same values I have when it came to nurturing and helping her grow into the person she is today . I would imagine you had similar values in having her respect those who are different, respect parents teacher and authorities . These are guess of mine but I think we probably share those values .

I think if you were in my neighborhood today and saw the 5 and three year old boys playing soccer, you would have said hello. Maybe even kick the soccer ball with them.

I imagine you have values that are like mine where we pay our bills on time. That we don’t buy anything we can’t afford . And you would do anything not to stiff another person on a bill. Those are probably universal values .

Lifestyle … I would imagine you probably do what I did last night . Go out with friends, have a nice dinner and a spirited convo like I did .

Yes I get eastern Washington’s needs are vastly different than the three major counties on the west side . And I do know number of votes matter . Fair? Like I said eastern wa should be married to Idaho . Not sure why the map was never redrawn .

And if that ever happened and wsu had to be moved .. move to lake Chelan 😜

Ed, yes there is common ground, shared values, etc.

But there are differences, and even in the Shared Values, there are different methodologies, views on those shared values.

And there are those that are moderate in their differences, methodologies, and there are those that are not, and of those who are not moderate, there are some that are semi extreme to extreme.

And some of those differences methodologies are not as important. But there are differences, methodologies that are BAD.

Ed, on a scale of 1-5, 1-10, where 1 is Conservative, 5 on 10 scale is Moderate, 5 on 5 scale, and 10 on 10 scale is liberal, you are about a 3.65 ish on the 1-5 scale, and about a 6.8 ish on the 10 scale.

But there are those, semi lots even who are 1's, 10's, etc, on that scale.

And that can be ok in a way, if they are tolerant, and semi not ok in way, because their way is wrong, doing great hurt, harm, etc.

There are racist conservatives, that have infrastructure fail, due to not spending, taxing even 1 penny, and that kick old grandma's to curbs, and that try to force, control everything, are not tolerant, and because of all that, can get violent, etc, but they are in MINORITY, and there are less of them then:

The far left, communist, socialist, Marxist, LIBTARD, that TAXES, SPENDS, INSANE LOT, that NANNY STATE CONTROL EVERYTHING, EVERYONE,believes in free speech as long as builds their agenda, but shuts down freedoms, free speech for everyone else, they RIOT, NOT protest, burn cities to ground(Ferguson, Baltimore), etc, their groups like ANTIFA, Black Lives Matter(good, right thought, wrong, violent, controlling forceful, terroristic methodology, and ALL LIVES MATTER, including black lives, amd not just only black lives), ACORN, green peace(terror bombings of those that dont agree with their pro environment belief, chain themselves to trees to prevent logging, etc), etc, and they have created WAR ZONES(downtown Portland, Seattle, and their extreme political correctness, thought police, tearing down all statues, history destruction, etc.

Now both sides have about the same percent of insane minority on their sides, but since there are MORE liberals then conservatives, there are MORE insane liberals then insane conservatives.

Also even the insane conservatives, are less violent, etc, then the insane liberals.

And the other problem with insane liberals is that they are the semi somewhat semi popular, VOCAL minority that has a NARRATIVE, that has the overall liberal majority, side, in their power, control, which gives them MORE numbers then conservatives, which means that even if every moderate, and conservative voted, the liberals on the left, westside, controlled by the insane liberals, would still FORCE THEIR SHET on the moderates, conservatives on the East Side.

Also another difference between the insane conservatives, and the insane liberals, is that insane conservatives who have extreme views, tend to still believe the best way to further their extreme views is through voting, not thru violence, stopping speech, etc.

The insane LIBTARDS are way more violent, etc, then insane conservatives.

So Ed while there are shared values, common ground, the liberal side, usually does not want to focus on Shared Values, common ground between liberals, moderates, conservatives, and want to SJW(Social Justice Warrior), FORCE their liberal AGENDA(Whether it be Electric Cars, destroying dams, etc), on the Eastside moderates, conservatives.

Most of the more insane Westside liberals don't care about, don't give a damn about Eastside moderate and conservative lifestyles, culture, finding common ground, shared values, and only care about their insane liberal culture, lifestyle, agenda, etc, and forcing that upon the westside, Eastside moderates, conservatives.
 
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You're probably referring to Christ Church, which has a strong presence in Moscow and spreading throughout Latah County.
I don't think that's the one that Loyal had in mind. I don't remember the name of the organization, but it had roots somewhere in the Athol area and was a little more extreme than Christ Church.
 
Ah yes...because there hasn't been Arthur B. Langlie (2 terms), Daniel J. Evans, or John Spellman who could've moved this forward since the 1940s...

This governor may be terrible, but yes, let's blame a highway that's been in the works since the 1940s on him.

And FWIW, I think Rossi got screwed in 2004.
You're obviously not conversant in Camp Hope and the N-S BS Jay just pulled.

The N-S freeway is 2 miles from completion (after 60 years). And Jay nixes the budget because his pea brain thinks delaying finishing will 'cut costs'. As if any economist in the world thinks prices are ever going to go down again...so, yeah, let's put off finishing that for 8 years. Genius.

Folks in E. WA are fed up with enabling those who won't help themselves and allocating taxes to nonsense. They want the basics handled first. Good roads, public safety. It ain't rocket science.
 
One of the things I find interesting is the disconnect between younger E WA generations and the older ones on some but far from all issues. LGBTQetc for example is something that bothers many of the older folks but does not have the same level of emotional response in most of the younger ones. It is probably an overstatement to say that the younger ones are more accepting, but there certainly seems to be an element of that going on. I think the same is true for W WA, but it gets drowned out in a combination of the more PC attitude and the undeserved superiority complexes that are visible.

The more complex the issue, the greater the divide. Two biggies here in SoCal are how to address the homeless, and what to do about the border. We could go on and on about both, but when I choose to discuss those issues (and I exercise caution in trying to decide whether it is worth discussing with others), I tend to start with what simply does not work and go from there. I also try very hard not to point fingers, because not only is that not helpful to reaching a course of action, it also can become inconvenient when I find myself looking in a mirror, seeing my own finger pointing at myself. I see a lot of fingers being pointed in the big W WA/E WA arguments.

We unfortunately have too much "political wisdom" that revolves around open warfare as the basic political principle. I think of it as the Gingrich effect, though it is ingrained on both sides now. There is room in many places for someone moderate to start with stuff that can really be done and then work from there, but unfortunately our political system does not promote those sorts of folks. The only positive step I've seen in CA in regard to that sort of thing is our "top two" primaries, where ultimately we end up with quite a few moderates who have a chance to win an election. That is the start of the process, not the end, but it is helping. The occasional recession is also helpful, oddly enough, because that is what forces a review of spending priorities.
 
You're obviously not conversant in Camp Hope and the N-S BS Jay just pulled.

The N-S freeway is 2 miles from completion (after 60 years). And Jay nixes the budget because his pea brain thinks delaying finishing will 'cut costs'. As if any economist in the world thinks prices are ever going to go down again...so, yeah, let's put off finishing that for 8 years. Genius.

Folks in E. WA are fed up with enabling those who won't help themselves and allocating taxes to nonsense. They want the basics handled first. Good roads, public safety. It ain't rocket science.

One of the best things Liberals, Clinton, did out of the lots of bad things they have done, was to in a bi partisanship way join conservatives in doing WORK FIRST WELFARE REFORM, where the goal, and where teach HOW to fish, instead of FOREVER giving fish, and where it was required that Welfare recipients had to enroll in Work First Program, and apply for Jobs, and lose welfare if not do those things.

One of the bad things liberals have done at Federal, State, westside levels, is either not doing work first like welfare reform, an or at Federal level, either canceling Work First, or letting it expire, not renewing it, or not enforcing it, letting it fade into background, die out, etc.

Whatever happened to the WORK FIRST program anyways?
 
Ed, yes there is common ground, shared values, etc.

But there are differences, and even in the Shared Values, there are different methodologies, views on those shared values.

And there are those that are moderate in their differences, methodologies, and there are those that are not, and of those who are not moderate, there are some that are semi extreme to extreme.

And some of those differences methodologies are not as important. But there are differences, methodologies that are BAD.

Ed, on a scale of 1-5, 1-10, where 1 is Conservative, 5 on 10 scale is Moderate, 5 on 5 scale, and 10 on 10 scale is liberal, you are about a 3.65 ish on the 1-5 scale, and about a 6.8 ish on the 10 scale.

But there are those, semi lots even who are 1's, 10's, etc, on that scale.

And that can be ok in a way, if they are tolerant, and semi not ok in way, because their way is wrong, doing great hurt, harm, etc.

There are racist conservatives, that have infrastructure fail, due to not spending, taxing even 1 penny, and that kick old grandma's to curbs, and that try to force, control everything, are not tolerant, and because of all that, can get violent, etc, but they are in MINORITY, and there are less of them then:

The far left, communist, socialist, Marxist, LIBTARD, that TAXES, SPENDS, INSANE LOT, that NANNY STATE CONTROL EVERYTHING, EVERYONE,believes in free speech as long as builds their agenda, but shuts down freedoms, free speech for everyone else, they RIOT, NOT protest, burn cities to ground(Ferguson, Baltimore), etc, their groups like ANTIFA, Black Lives Matter(good, right thought, wrong, violent, controlling forceful, terroristic methodology, and ALL LIVES MATTER, including black lives, amd not just only black lives), ACORN, green peace(terror bombings of those that dont agree with their pro environment belief, chain themselves to trees to prevent logging, etc), etc, and they have created WAR ZONES(downtown Portland, Seattle, and their extreme political correctness, thought police, tearing down all statues, history destruction, etc.

Now both sides have about the same percent of insane minority on their sides, but since there are MORE liberals then conservatives, there are MORE insane liberals then insane conservatives.

Also even the insane conservatives, are less violent, etc, then the insane liberals.

And the other problem with insane liberals is that they are the semi somewhat semi popular, VOCAL minority that has a NARRATIVE, that has the overall liberal majority, side, in their power, control, which gives them MORE numbers then conservatives, which means that even if every moderate, and conservative voted, the liberals on the left, westside, controlled by the insane liberals, would still FORCE THEIR SHET on the moderates, conservatives on the East Side.

Also another difference between the insane conservatives, and the insane liberals, is that insane conservatives who have extreme views, tend to still believe the best way to further their extreme views is through voting, not thru violence, stopping speech, etc.

The insane LIBTARDS are way more violent, etc, then insane conservatives.

So Ed while there are shared values, common ground, the liberal side, usually does not want to focus on Shared Values, common ground between liberals, moderates, conservatives, and want to SJW(Social Justice Warrior), FORCE their liberal AGENDA(Whether it be Electric Cars, destroying dams, etc), on the Eastside moderates, conservatives.

Most of the more insane Westside liberals don't care about, don't give a damn about Eastside moderate and conservative lifestyles, culture, finding common ground, shared values, and only care about their insane liberal culture, lifestyle, agenda, etc, and forcing that upon the westside, Eastside moderates, conservatives.
Mik…I would take issue with a couple of comments. One you made is lazy, tax and spend democrats .

I went out to dinner with three other couples last night. Had this discussion last night with someone who you would consider a libtard. He goes to his phone where he had notes about the debt.

This is from memory about spending. From 1930 to 1980 the US amassed 1 trillion in debt. Reagen took the debt from 1 trillion to 3 trillion. Bush one took it from 3 to 6. If I recall Clinton. Reduce it a smidge . In 8 years Bush 2 doubled the debt. To 12 trillion plus.

Obama went from 12 to 16 .Obama inherited the worst finically crisis since the Depression.

Trump in four years bumped it up another 4 trillion .

Over 69% of the debt over the last forty years has been amassed by a Republican president . So maybe it would be more accurate libtards are the party of taxation to pay for stuff and the Republican Party is the party of spending .

Check out the numbers as this is from memory after having a drink so I could be off in terms of exact trillions spent . But the percentage of 69% in increase of bevy has been under a Republican President.
 
One of the things I find interesting is the disconnect between younger E WA generations and the older ones on some but far from all issues. LGBTQetc for example is something that bothers many of the older folks but does not have the same level of emotional response in most of the younger ones. It is probably an overstatement to say that the younger ones are more accepting, but there certainly seems to be an element of that going on. I think the same is true for W WA, but it gets drowned out in a combination of the more PC attitude and the undeserved superiority complexes that are visible.

The more complex the issue, the greater the divide. Two biggies here in SoCal are how to address the homeless, and what to do about the border. We could go on and on about both, but when I choose to discuss those issues (and I exercise caution in trying to decide whether it is worth discussing with others), I tend to start with what simply does not work and go from there. I also try very hard not to point fingers, because not only is that not helpful to reaching a course of action, it also can become inconvenient when I find myself looking in a mirror, seeing my own finger pointing at myself. I see a lot of fingers being pointed in the big W WA/E WA arguments.

We unfortunately have too much "political wisdom" that revolves around open warfare as the basic political principle. I think of it as the Gingrich effect, though it is ingrained on both sides now. There is room in many places for someone moderate to start with stuff that can really be done and then work from there, but unfortunately our political system does not promote those sorts of folks. The only positive step I've seen in CA in regard to that sort of thing is our "top two" primaries, where ultimately we end up with quite a few moderates who have a chance to win an election. That is the start of the process, not the end, but it is helping. The occasional recession is also helpful, oddly enough, because that is what forces a review of spending priorities.

Good point about the not pointing fingers, not blaming, not putting others on the defensive, no matter how right you are, as that can shut things down.

Even tho wrong, I think the reason Eastside Moderates, conservatives point fingers at Westside liberals, is because of the SHET Westside Liberals fling at East side thru voting, pointing fingers, etc.

But 2 wrongs, does not make a right, so good point about the not pointing fingers


On your point about younger people, the reason why that's the case, is because of the NARRATIVE, and the semi brainwashing the get in K-12, highschool, college, liberal college professors, liberal parents, and liberal entertainment, liberal sources, etc, which there are more of them conservative sources.

Let's take Transgender issue as a example.

Altho there are a minority of conservatives that object to Transgender behavior, because of things like religion, etc most conservatives are like my view on, about transgenders.

Even tho I don't like transgender behavior for religious reasons, I have friends that are transgender because they are good, friendly people, and because Jesus was all about love, even those who doing wrong hurting others. Jesus was always with, loving, etc, to the Publicans, Sinners. If Jesus were here, he would love, be friends with, etc, Transgenders, etc. So if I want to be like Jesus, I need to be friends with Transgenders too.

That said I still do not like transgender behavior, as I think it's wrong. I think Transgender is PRETENDING to be opposite gender, not recognizing the scientific biological FACT, TRUTH of your BIOLOGICAL gender due to a mental problem, etc.

That's why medical experts call Transgender Gender Disphoria disorder.

I think that if you were born with a penis, that you are a Male, a he, etc. If you are born with a Vagina, you are a female. Nothing will change those scientific, biological facts.

But hey if someone wants to pretend to be opposite gender, that's their right to do so. Just like if they want to pretend to be a horse, that's their right too.

But I shouldn't be forced to call a HE a She. And to those who say your not forced, a employee got FIRED for not calling other male employees, customers a SHE.

The other issue, is the bathroom issue. Women should NOT have to let a male pretending to be female(Transgender), be in the bathroom with them. Transgenders need to use the bathroom of their biological gender. If you have a penis, you use the male bathroom. If you have a vagina, you use the female bathroom.

Another reason for this, is that there have been women RAPED, by males who went into women's bathrooms on claim that they were transgender, and used that to RAPE.

That's why North Carolina passed the law that made it illegal for males that pretend to be females, to enter female bathrooms.

It has nothing to do with hate, bigotry, etc, and everything to do with SAFETY. They(Transgenders) talk about their transgender rights. Well I don't want them to lose, not have rights, and they do, should have rights, but what about the rights of others, etc. Rights end where others rights begin, and their is a prioritization of conflicting rights, that rules on the side of the majority, or safety, etc.

And Women sports FEMALE players should not have to compete against PENIS'S. The reason for that, is that it is a safety, and competitive fairness thing, issue, problem, NOT a hate, bigotry issue.

I am not BIGOTED against Transgenders, and do not HATE transgenders.

I AM THE TYPICAL semi conservative, when it comes to my view on, about transgenders. Most conservatives have the same view as me on, about Transgenders.

And the NARRATIVE WRONGLY paints me and others like me and other conservatives as deplorable, hatemongers, bigots, etc.

And it's that same NARRATIVE that's responsible for younger people having differing views on about issues like Transgender and other issues and why younger people have different views then older people on about issues like Transgender behavior issues.
 
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