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Hard to figure out WSU Hoops this season

PeteTheChop

PeteTheChop

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  • Start out the seaon 7-0, including impressive back-to-back-to-back wins over well-respected St. Joe's, WCC power St. Mary's and always talented SDSU. As December arrives, Cougs are on the verge of Top 25 and Ernie Kent is an early frontrunner for another National Coach of the Year award
  • Follow that success with double-digit losses to UC-Davis and Idaho. Then promptly dig a hole with 0-4 start in Pac-12 play
  • Rebound nicely by crushing UC-Berkeley 78-53 in Pullman
  • Drop two straight at Colorado and Utah.
Can anyone figure out this season's team?

Even with the fast start, is WSU still one year away?
 
Try the basketball forum, Pete. (Beasley Baseline) It's pretty dead over there but maybe you can get a conversation started.
 
PeteTheChop said:
  • Start out the seaon 7-0, including impressive back-to-back-to-back wins over well-respected St. Joe's, WCC power St. Mary's and always talented SDSU. As December arrives, Cougs are on the verge of Top 25 and Ernie Kent is an early frontrunner for another National Coach of the Year award
  • Follow that success with double-digit losses to UC-Davis and Idaho. Then promptly dig a hole with 0-4 start in Pac-12 play
  • Rebound nicely by crushing UC-Berkeley 78-53 in Pullman
  • Drop two straight at Colorado and Utah.
Can anyone figure out this season's team?

Even with the fast start, is WSU still one year away?
Click to expand...
More like one coach away.
 
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Sometimes we play defense. Sometimes we don't. If we play defense and shoot reasonably well, we win. If we do not do one of those, we lose. Not having a true center is a handicap at both ends.

Unfortunately, I don't think it is a whole lot more complicated than that.
 
This is a relatively young team and I have a friend that thinks that they’re going to be good next year. I’m not as optimistic but I get what they are saying.
 
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Glad Cougar said:
Try the basketball forum, Pete. (Beasley Baseline) It's pretty dead over there but maybe you can get a conversation started.
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Sorry about that and thanks for the heads up ... I had thought "The Lair" was the catch-all for WSU sports conversation ever since CougZone got bought out a few years ago.

I don't think Flatland's friend is the only one who's optimistic about the future. Just look at the roster and the underclassmen who are key contributors.

Cougs have to replace Drick Bernstine and the walk-on guard from Seattle Nathan Hale, but everyone else will be back.

Easy to envision this program taking off in 2018-19.
 
No problem, Pete. I've stopped following the basketball team closely this year which is not a very good Coug thing to do. But I'm not so optimistic about the direction of the program under Coach Kent. He's in his 4th year now and the successful WSU b-ball coaches of the past always turned the program around in year 4. WSU is stuck with Ernie thanks to the golden, perpetual 5-year contract (with automatic rollover year) Moos gave to his old UO pal.

I hope the new AD finds a way to invest and inject life into the program.

Glad Cougar
 
Glad Cougar said:
No problem, Pete. I've stopped following the basketball team closely this year which is not a very good Coug thing to do. But I'm not so optimistic about the direction of the program under Coach Kent. He's in his 4th year now and the successful WSU b-ball coaches of the past always turned the program around in year 4. WSU is stuck with Ernie thanks to the golden, perpetual 5-year contract (with automatic rollover year) Moos gave to his old UO pal.

I hope the new AD finds a way to invest and inject life into the program.

Glad Cougar
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Unfortunately, it appears that 95% of WSU fans are doing the same thing that you mentioned above and not following the basketball team. Regardless of what we think about Wulff, the vast empty spaces in the stands of WSU football games in 2011 were one of the main drivers in Wulff's firing. Kent needs to find a way to get butts in the seat or he's going to join Wulff as a "former WSU coach".
 
Flatlandcoug said:
This is a relatively young team and I have a friend that thinks that they’re going to be good next year. I’m not as optimistic but I get what they are saying.
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Here's my take (and maybe Scott will move the thread over to the Beasley board, if you can still do that with Rivals' technology). First of all, EK is not some up and coming coach - he was a well known winner with some cache'. Year one, I get that the recruiting would be spotty or bad. Year 2, he should have brought some serious talent in. Maybe a JC gem or 2. Those guys would be juniors/seniors. With today's one and done world, we should not be blaming youth in Year 4. As important, we should have a well-coached team. Apparently we don't.

WSU was spoiled by the Bennetts. Dick came in and doubled our wins in year one with pretty much existing players (did he bring Varem in?). Because he was a great coach with a great system, especially for WSU. We should have promoted Ben....Johnson?... when Tony left and kept the blue collar system intact.

This whole "we are young" thing is the same thing we have heard for 10 years over on the women's side. Again with a successful coach who should have brought instant credibility to recruiting, etc. Another team that seem to lack in good coaching.
 
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It's pretty simple. We aren't good
PeteTheChop said:
Sorry about that and thanks for the heads up ... I had thought "The Lair" was the catch-all for WSU sports conversation ever since CougZone got bought out a few years ago.

I don't think Flatland's friend is the only one who's optimistic about the future. Just look at the roster and the underclassmen who are key contributors.

Cougs have to replace Drick Bernstine and the walk-on guard from Seattle Nathan Hale, but everyone else will be back.

Easy to envision this program taking off in 2018-19.
Click to expand...
Like every year a few will transfer.
 
They just aren't that good. They have no one who plays consistently. So no one can really be counted upon..... very poor D also.
 
EK's system is fine if he has a big that can run and 3 guys minimum on the floor who can hit a 3. When on top of that he has guys who can play perimeter D and understand enough defensive basics to use footwork in their D, and at least one guy (usually a 3) who is a legitimate threat to penetrate, then it goes from fine to pretty good.

I see the shooters. Sometimes they play D on the perimeter, so I know they can do it when motivated to do so. I see some power forwards trying to play center. At least they will block out for rebounds and usually play D, but they are not a legitimate running center. I see no penetration threats other than a point guard and a shooting guard who is only just now learning to not be out of control.

Next year both penetrators will be better and who knows, we may have a 3rd. Our bigs have to be more of a threat at both ends, but I don't see that guy. Our inconsistent D is on Ernie; it is his job to get that part done, and he doesn't seem to have an answer to that question.

Not sure what is going to improve recruiting.
 
cr8zyncalif said:
EK's system is fine if he has a big that can run and 3 guys minimum on the floor who can hit a 3. When on top of that he has guys who can play perimeter D and understand enough defensive basics to use footwork in their D, and at least one guy (usually a 3) who is a legitimate threat to penetrate, then it goes from fine to pretty good.

I see the shooters. Sometimes they play D on the perimeter, so I know they can do it when motivated to do so. I see some power forwards trying to play center. At least they will block out for rebounds and usually play D, but they are not a legitimate running center. I see no penetration threats other than a point guard and a shooting guard who is only just now learning to not be out of control.

Next year both penetrators will be better and who knows, we may have a 3rd. Our bigs have to be more of a threat at both ends, but I don't see that guy. Our inconsistent D is on Ernie; it is his job to get that part done, and he doesn't seem to have an answer to that question.

Not sure what is going to improve recruiting.
Click to expand...
Apparently Kent went down to Houston to work with Mike D'Antoni so it doesn't appear fixing the defense is not exactly high on the list of priorities.
 
cr8zyncalif said:
EK's system is fine if he has a big that can run and 3 guys minimum on the floor who can hit a 3. When on top of that he has guys who can play perimeter D and understand enough defensive basics to use footwork in their D, and at least one guy (usually a 3) who is a legitimate threat to penetrate, then it goes from fine to pretty good.

I see the shooters. Sometimes they play D on the perimeter, so I know they can do it when motivated to do so. I see some power forwards trying to play center. At least they will block out for rebounds and usually play D, but they are not a legitimate running center. I see no penetration threats other than a point guard and a shooting guard who is only just now learning to not be out of control.

Next year both penetrators will be better and who knows, we may have a 3rd. Our bigs have to be more of a threat at both ends, but I don't see that guy. Our inconsistent D is on Ernie; it is his job to get that part done, and he doesn't seem to have an answer to that question.

Not sure what is going to improve recruiting.
Click to expand...
In his defense, its hard to convince a kid to play D and work on his mid-range game when everyone at the next level spends all their time behind the arc and steals/ blocks are something you did in AAU. He's a players coach, and he doesn't have players. If he can't recruit them to Pullman, he needs to go.
 
PeteTheChop said:
I think there are some good underclassmen coming up in Spokane and elsewhere in eastern Washington, too.

Hopefully CEK can get these kids committed before the word leaks out.
Click to expand...

You're going to have to expand on that comment with specific names. There are only three D-1 caliber players in the GSL right now - Anton Watson (GU), Tanner Chistensen (Idaho) and Naje Smith (TBD - probably the JC route first). There's a handful of D-3 kind of guys (maybe D2 for Shamrock Campbell or Mike Irvin at Ferris) but there's no Adam Morrison clone waiting in the wings. The Lloyd kid at GPrep is a nice shooter but there's not a chance in hell he ends up at WSU unless by some quirk of nature his dad is hired as head coach. There's a couple others whose parents think they are D-1 players but they are not.
 
Observer11 said:
You're going to have to expand on that comment with specific names. There are only three D-1 caliber players in the GSL right now - Anton Watson (GU), Tanner Chistensen (Idaho) and Naje Smith (TBD - probably the JC route first). There's a handful of D-3 kind of guys (maybe D2 for Shamrock Campbell or Mike Irvin at Ferris) but there's no Adam Morrison clone waiting in the wings. The Lloyd kid at GPrep is a nice shooter but there's not a chance in hell he ends up at WSU unless by some quirk of nature his dad is hired as head coach. There's a couple others whose parents think they are D-1 players but they are not.
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Thanks for the info, Observer.

A few questions for you or other WA high school hoops experts:

Just how good is Anton Watson from G-Prep? As a high-major prospect, where would you evaluate/project him compared to a couple of in-state talents for the Cougs in Robert Franks and Malachi Flynn?

I did not remember Naje Smith's name -- just heard there was a dynamite athlete playing for Spokane Lewis & Clark. Do you see him as someone CEK will pursue if Smith indeed decides to begin his career in the JuCo or Prep School ranks.

Finally, what about Brock Ravet from Kittitas? Has Gonzaga found another small-school gem who will shine at the D-I level, a la David Pendergraft from Brewster?
 
Anton Watson is better than either Franks or Flynn at same stage. He is the real deal. Stockton trained with genes that are out of this world. Possibly the highest basketball IQ I have ever seen in a high school kid.

Not sure what CEK's mindset is with regard to Naje Smith. Ernie is aware. Wait and see.

Don't know much about the Kittitas kid. Always wary of the small school players - Pendergraft was a different beast as he had some size to him. There was a hotshot out of Colton a couple years ago named Jake Straughn who signed with Idaho based on big B numbers. He's at Fresno Pacific now after riding the pine for three years. Nothing wrong with D-2 ball but the step up to D-1 is a function of size and speed. To be politically incorrect and stereotypical, white guys from Colton generally don't have either.
 
Observer11 said:
Anton Watson is better than either Franks or Flynn at same stage. He is the real deal. Stockton trained with genes that are out of this world. Possibly the highest basketball IQ I have ever seen in a high school kid.
Click to expand...

Wow, one to watch for sure!

Is Anton Watson by chance related to Deon Watson, who played for Idaho in the early 1990s?

Deon was from Mississippi but ended up remaining in the Inland Empire after his playing days.
 
PeteTheChop said:
Wow, one to watch for sure!

Is Anton Watson by chance related to Deon Watson, who played for Idaho in the early 1990s?

Deon was from Mississippi but ended up remaining in the Inland Empire after his playing days.
Click to expand...

yup. that's his father.
 
Observer,

Is Tanner Christensen (who you mentioned earlier) from Spokane U-High someone WSU should have pursued for this class?

A rangy 6-10 kid with a lot of upside, according to the Spokesman-Review.

Always comforting to know the Cougs aren't missing out on any quality Inland Empire FB or BB talent, e.g. Joe Dahl (who CML wisely brought back to Pullman) ...
 
PeteTheChop said:
Observer,

Is Tanner Christensen (who you mentioned earlier) from Spokane U-High someone WSU should have pursued for this class?

A rangy 6-10 kid with a lot of upside, according to the Spokesman-Review.

Always comforting to know the Cougs aren't missing out on any quality Inland Empire FB or BB talent, e.g. Joe Dahl (who CML wisely brought back to Pullman) ...
Click to expand...

As I've said before, at this point, Idaho is a WAY better basketball program than WSU and it's not even close. So, yes, anybody they would offer and coach up definitely would be someone the Cougs should have considered. Same with some of the kids who ended up at EWU under Hayford. 6-10 is 6-10.

The kid from Garfield of Seattle just got named Big Sky player of the week for the Vandals. Bogdan Bliznyuk from Federal Way will break the all-time EWU career scoring record in his next game.
 
Observer11 said: ↑
As I've said before, at this point, Idaho is a WAY better basketball program than WSU and it's not even close.

PeteTheChop said:
Ugh.

Hopefully CEK can get it rolling in the next couple seasons.
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Idaho coach Don Verlin just got a raise - to $245,000. He coaches 8 miles away, in a (way) lesser league with lesser facilities at a lesser academic institution half our size. In a state and specifically part of said state (Northern Idaho) known for it's racist tendencies. Yet he can recruit better players and beats our team handily. For 1.1 million less per year.

Why are we even having this conversation?
 
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Loyal Coug said:
Observer11 said: ↑
As I've said before, at this point, Idaho is a WAY better basketball program than WSU and it's not even close.



Idaho coach Don Verlin just got a raise - to $245,000. He coaches 8 miles away, in a (way) lesser league with lesser facilities at a lesser academic institution half our size. In a state and specifically part of said state (Northern Idaho) known for it's racist tendencies. Yet he can recruit better players and beats our team handily. For 1.1 million less per year.

Why are we even having this conversation?
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Because the esteemed (cough cough) former AD didn't give two f*Cks about basketball and hired his unemployed buddy - then he rolled him over on his contract.

I was having a good day up until this thread.
 
Observer11 said:
Because the esteemed (cough cough) former AD didn't give two f*Cks about basketball and hired his unemployed buddy - then he rolled him over on his contract.

I was having a good day up until this thread.
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To make it worse, go see how Oregon and Altman have done since Kent was fired. Hint - better than Kent, certainly way better than his last several years. Yeah they are paying Altman some dough, but as of when Kent was hired only 1.8 vs 1.4 million.
 
Loyal Coug said:
To make it worse, go see how Oregon and Altman have done since Kent was fired. Hint - better than Kent, certainly way better than his last several years. Yeah they are paying Altman some dough, but as of when Kent was hired only 1.8 vs 1.4 million.
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get the torches and pitchforks!!!
 
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