ADVERTISEMENT

Heisman - Minshew solidly in ESPN's top 3

L

Loyal Coug

Hall Of Fame
Sep 27, 2003
7,967
995
113
But this a perfect example of what BS this "QBR" is. How can Gawdner have a (much) lower QB rating than Murray with more yards, more TD's, no Int's, and way higher completion %? Against a better team.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/heisman/

Murray:
WEEK 12 VS. KANSAS
PASSING
YDS TD INT CMP% QBR
272 2 1 65.6 95.7

Minshew:
WEEK 12 VS. ARIZONA
PASSING
YDSTDINTCMP%QBR
473 7 0 78.2 88.4
 
Loyal Coug said:
But this a perfect example of what BS this "QBR" is. How can Gawdner have a (much) lower QB rating than Murray with more yards, more TD's, no Int's, and way higher completion %? Against a better team.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/heisman/

Murray:
WEEK 12 VS. KANSAS
PASSING
YDS TD INT CMP% QBR
272 2 1 65.6 95.7

Minshew:
WEEK 12 VS. ARIZONA
PASSING
YDSTDINTCMP%QBR
473 7 0 78.2 88.4
Click to expand...

There are six steps to building QBR:[4]

  • Each QB "action play" (passes, rushes, sacks, scrambles, or penalties attributable to the QB) are measured in terms of the expected points added (EPA)
  • Adjust for the difficulty of each play. EPA is adjusted based on the type and depth of a pass, and whether the QB was pressured.
  • If there is a completion, he only is credited for the typical number of yards after the catch (passer rating takes all yards into effect) based on the type and depth of the pass
  • There is a discount on trash time, or a time where the score is out of reach near the end of the game.
  • Opponent adjustment: More credit is given with tougher defenses and vice versa.
  • QBR averages the adjusted EPA per play and transforms it to a 0 to 100 scale, with 50 being average.

Longs story short - running qb's/ positive rushing yards will result in a better qbr. I'm sure Minshews passer rating is much better than Murray's.

BTW, Murray is by far the Heisman winner. I honestly think Minshew should be in the conversaion, as the Cougs would not be where they are without him. Tua is a joke and is there because of the name on his jersey - the next two qb on their roster could do what he does and one actually has. The WV kid is pretty special as a leader and integral part of their team, so I'd put him 3rd.
 
As long as GM II keeps posting the stats he's posting and winning..... I see no reason he should not earn the Heisman award. He's more that in the conversation, if one takes the time to actually look at his body of work.
 
What would be funny is if GM passed for 400 4 TD's during each of AC, champ game, Rosebowl, Playoffs.

GM already has 4325 yards passing 36 TD's, 3 rushing TD's, only 7 INT'S.

If add a REASONABLE 700 yards, 9 TD's passing 1 INT, 2 Rushing TD's

GM would have 5000 to 5500 yards, 43, 44,45,46 passing TD's, vs ONLY 8 INT's, with 4,5,6 Rushing TD's, about 150 to 350 rushing yards with about 47 to 53 Total TD's.

That is a reasonable, logical extrapolation, projection.

And IF GM does that, then GM would either have THE BEST QB STATS in the history of NCAA Div 1, FBS, Power 5, etc, or 1, ONE of the best in history.

And none of the QB's, would be anywhere close to that.

To put this into perspective, TY Detmer who is about #6 to #9 all time won the Heisman, with 4000 yards passing, Less TD's, more INT's, more sacks, etc.

If GM puts up those numbers, and doesnt win either the Heisman, Davy O Brien Award, or Both, it would be one of the biggest screw ups, getting it wrong in NCAA football awards history.

Also IF GM puts up those numbers or kind of numbers, then it doesnt matter what the Heisman, Davy O Brien awards, etc, media, other people say, in a way as GM with those numbers or those kind of numbers is, would be the Factual, True BEST 1, ONE, SINGLE SEASON QB, PLAYER IN ALL OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL THIS SEASON, AND MAYBE EVEN HISTORY.
 
mikalalas said:
What would be funny is if GM passed for 400 4 TD's during each of AC, champ game, Rosebowl, Playoffs.

GM already has 4325 yards passing 36 TD's, 3 rushing TD's, only 7 INT'S.

If add a REASONABLE 700 yards, 9 TD's passing 1 INT, 2 Rushing TD's

GM would have 5000 to 5500 yards, 43, 44,45,46 passing TD's, vs ONLY 8 INT's, with 4,5,6 Rushing TD's, about 150 to 350 rushing yards with about 47 to 53 Total TD's.

That is a reasonable, logical extrapolation, projection.

And IF GM does that, then GM would either have THE BEST QB STATS in the history of NCAA Div 1, FBS, Power 5, etc, or 1, ONE of the best in history.

And none of the QB's, would be anywhere close to that.

To put this into perspective, TY Detmer who is about #6 to #9 all time won the Heisman.

If GM puts up those numbers, and doesnt win either the Heisman, Davy O Brien Award, or Both, it would be one of the biggest screw ups, getting it wrong in NCAA football awards history.

Also IF GM puts up those numbers or kind of numbers, then it doesnt matter what the Heisman, Davy O Brien awards, etc, media, other people say, in a way as GM with those numbers or those kind of numbers is, would be the Factual, True BEST 1, ONE, SINGLE SEASON QB, PLAYER IN ALL OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL THIS SEASON, AND MAYBE EVEN HISTORY.
Click to expand...
Your posts manage to make both my brain and my eyes hurt.

Please stop with the CAPS. You're going to end up marginalizing your opinion on this board because nobody want to read it due to the caps and ranting. A lot of what you say has merit, but the delivery is gawd awful.

Sorry, had to be said.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fab5Coug
I watched Murray play a couple times this year. Minshew is a great QB for us and perfect for the Air Raid and I love that he is playing for our team. That said.....Murray is like Khalil Tate with better accuracy and more speed. If you value a running QB, Murray is "better" than Minshew. For our offense, Minshew might be a better option because he is likely better at reading defenses and going through his progressions, but I'd be willing to give Murray a shot.
 
The Heisman is supposed to be for the best college football player every year. The question is how that's measured. Historically, it's been someone who has pretty solid numbers on a good team...and preferably a team with tradition. If it was purely statistics, Leach would have coached a handful of Heisman winners already.
Another element is that it often goes to someone who's a key element and who is important to the success of his team. So, look at this year's front runners:

Tagovailoa, Alabama - There's no doubt his numbers are up there, and he's a team leader. But how critical has he been to Alabama's success? Would they be 11-0 without him? In truth, maybe. Jalen Woods is also pretty good, and there's so much talent on that team that they're probably still in the top 5 or 10 if Tagovailoa is still on the bench.

Murray, Oklahoma - Also has good numbers, although I'd argue Minshew's are better. But he fails the same test as Tagovailoa - Oklahoma is still a pretty solid offense and a crap defense without him. He's probably a bigger part of the team's success than Tagovailoa, but OU is still top 25 if he's not there.

Minshew - Arguably the best QB numbers in the country (regardless of the stupid QB rating formula). But there's zero argument about his value to the team. Where is WSU if Minshew is the #3 in Alabama, and Tinsley or Gordon is starting? My generous estimate is that we're 6-5 without him. We still start 3-0, we beat Oregon State, Colorado, and Arizona (although I'm not sure about Arizona). We lose to Utah, Oregon (and Gameday still hasn't been to Pullman), Stanford, and Cal. Without Minshew, we're hoping to hang on for the Vegas bowl or the Cheese-it bowl, rather than talking about NY6 and an outside shot at the playoff. In my mind, that's why he should be in New York - he elevates the rest of the team well above where they'd be without him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CougInSpain, random soul and mikalalas
Another way to look at it Minshew putting up 5000+ yards, 45 to 50 TD's, would be like a RB putting up 3000 yards rushing, 33 TD's

Or

1750 yards rushing 1750 receiving, 16 rush TD's, 16 receiving TD's

Or

2350 rushing yards, 1150 receiving, 19 Rush TD's, 16 receiving TD's

Or a WR with 2385 receiving yards, 29 TD's

If any WR, RB were to do those things on a top 7 Power 5 team with a 10-1 record, they would win the Heisman or Maxwell award, or both.

And to put the above into perspective

The WR rocket Ismail won the Heisman with ONLY about 1000 to 1500 yards receiving, and only about 13 to 19 TD's

Nowhere near as good as the RB, WR numbers listed above as being like, comparable as good as GM QB stats
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BleedCrimsonandGray
I think it's more like a RB putting up 2877 rushing yards and 14 TDs and 1237 receiving yards and 9 TDs.
 
BleedCrimsonandGray said:
Your posts manage to make both my brain and my eyes hurt.

Please stop with the CAPS. You're going to end up marginalizing your opinion on this board because nobody want to read it due to the caps and ranting. A lot of what you say has merit, but the delivery is gawd awful.

Sorry, had to be said.
Click to expand...

How come you don't treat ME with kid gloves like this? Mean man.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back