How bad it has become

[Loyal Coug]

Not that we need any statistical evidence, but:

Going into the season CEK's winning % was .379. As of today it is .382, and unlikely to improve much. Even if we go 6-0 and 1-1 in the tourney, his % would be .407 (ain't gonna happen). His winning percentage beats Paul Graham (.282) and our first coach John Evans, who went 2-4. He has a slight chance of reaching Karl Schladerman (.400 in 27-28).

Our YTD attendance is now at 2,246/game, 2,249 of you count Spokane and the Tri-cities. This is less than our worst year at Beasley ever, that being 2,282 under Graham. Unlikely to improve much either, with 2 Wednesday games (Oregon is at 8PM, thanks Pac-12 network), and our season-ender against OSU the first Saturday of Spring break.

With Franks graduating, the future does not look bright either. In year 5, EK continues to talk as if we are young and improving. In year 5! With a terrible Pac 12 and a non-con slate that was as weak as any in history. "We aren't there yet", he says. Well, we will never be there with him as coach.

He simply has to go now. We lament the 4.2 million buyout, but that is 1.4 million/year. The 4.2 isn't much more than the scheduled debt offering for the Baseball clubhouse. Nothing compared to our total debt/deficit. No way can we let this run out for 3 more years. So what's 4.2 today as opposed to the inevitable 2.8 in a year?

Dick Bennett doubled our attendance in his first year. Sure, a lot of that was students, who don't generate new revenue as they already have their sports passes. But still. We have to unload this albatross and create some sort of hope and energy around our #2 program.

 

[wulffbone]

Words of wisdom there Loyal. EK lauds the attendance (4K+ last night) but that is really pitiful. Students have given up on the program and the future looks rather bleak. But on the plus side, "we're #11, as Cal is winless in conference.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Loyal,

Would you have posted this commentary had the Cougars stretched the winning streak to 3 games last night?

 

[SaveFerris]

If you look at the box score we are pretty young beyond Franks (38 minutes) and Pollard (25). Other than the 3 minutes Daniels picked up it was otherwise first year players. No question we will miss Franks a ton just like we are missing Flynn’s offense but there’s some talent left on the roster.

Elleby, Cannon, Kunc, Chance Moore, and Nigel John are a good young core of players. Hopefully get a second year bump from Robinson, Ali, and Wade and something from the bounce back JCs coming in. The other big thing is at 1-8 they didn’t quit on Kent.

Kent’s has never been a long-term answer but at least the last 3 games have given Chun something to think about. Paying $4.2M to make Kent go away and whatever it would cost for a new staff is money we currently don’t have as you continually remind us. Other than the returning players who could end up scattering there’s not a lot that makes us attractive other than patience.

If Chun chooses to fire I think he will at least have a good feel that we will end up with a better long-term solution unlike what happened the last time around.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Loyal,

Would you have posted this commentary had the Cougars stretched the winning streak to 3 games last night?

Touche', Pete........probably not. Losing to the mutts, especially the Couging it variety, puts me in a bad mood.

If you look at the box score we are pretty young beyond Franks (38 minutes) and Pollard (25). Other than the 3 minutes Daniels picked up it was otherwise first year players. No question we will miss Franks a ton just like we are missing Flynn’s offense but there’s some talent left on the roster.

Elleby, Cannon, Kunc, Chance Moore, and Nigel John are a good young core of players. Hopefully get a second year bump from Robinson, Ali, and Wade and something from the bounce back JCs coming in. The other big thing is at 1-8 they didn’t quit on Kent.

Kent’s has never been a long-term answer but at least the last 3 games have given Chun something to think about. Paying $4.2M to make Kent go away and whatever it would cost for a new staff is money we currently don’t have as you continually remind us. Other than the returning players who could end up scattering there’s not a lot that makes us attractive other than patience.

If Chun chooses to fire I think he will at least have a good feel that we will end up with a better long-term solution unlike what happened the last time around.

Not disagreeing with your post, but you hit a pretty consistent theme - we are a young team. In year 5 of CEK. And you say EK has never been a long term answer. 8 years is a long time in my book.

 

[SaveFerris]

Touche', Pete........probably not. Losing to the mutts, especially the Couging it variety, puts me in a bad mood.



Not disagreeing with your post, but you hit a pretty consistent theme - we are a young team. In year 5 of CEK. And you say EK has never been a long term answer. 8 years is a long time in my book.

I have never seen a Coug use that term so much.

Kent’s initial staff was awful and whatever their recruiting strategy was just as bad. The current staff did a good job last year and picked up what looks like a quality big in Nigel John this cycle. If we see a mass exodus then the major reason for him staying leaves with the players.

How is most of the talent being young a bad thing?

 

[etowncoug]

I have never seen a Coug use that term so much.

Kent’s initial staff was awful and whatever their recruiting strategy was just as bad. The current staff did a good job last year and picked up what looks like a quality big in Nigel John this cycle. If we see a mass exodus then the major reason for him staying leaves with the players.

How is most of the talent being young a bad thing?

Any Coug who uses that term isn't loyal. GTFO with the loser mentality of the past.

The team hasn't quit and is struggling to get over the hump. If the team maintains this level of play, we should win 3-4 more games in the regular season and are poised to win a conference tournament game for the first time in a decade.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

I think we should fire him and just elevate an assistant

Moos really screwed this one up...and most who know basketball knew it would not turn out well.

There is certainly no excuse for adding another year to his contract in 2017 by Moos.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Any Coug who uses that term isn't loyal. GTFO with the loser mentality of the past.

The team hasn't quit and is struggling to get over the hump. If the team maintains this level of play, we should win 3-4 more games in the regular season and are poised to win a conference tournament game for the first time in a decade.

But Loyal did use it.

 

[etowncoug]

But Loyal did use it.

Yes. Loyal isn't loyal.

 

[etowncoug]

I think we should fire him and just elevate an assistant

Moos really screwed this one up...and most who know basketball knew it would not turn out well.

There is certainly no excuse for adding another year to his contract in 2017 by Moos.

I still don't see how paying Kent not to coach improves things for the program.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

I still don't see how paying Kent not to coach improves things for the program.

Well...that assumes that you think he does coach.

I think it would be a valuable statement to everyone that we refuse to pay a guy $1.5M per year to fail consistently. There is something about making that clear to all current and prospective coaches.

 

[etowncoug]

Well...that assumes that you think he does coach.

I think it would be a valuable statement to everyone that we refuse to pay a guy $1.5M per year to fail consistently. There is something about making that clear to all current and prospective coaches.

No, it accomplishes nothing except making dolts feel good for a moment or two. You still pay him his money, we pay the new assistant money, and we still have substandard facilities/travel accommodations.

All this shows is taking the job in Pullman is a career killer and any ambitious coach should steer clear.

 

[jourdand]

Imo the problem is we are a young team and after 5 years we shouldn’t be.

 

[avabob1]

More likely to lose players like Elleby if Kent gets canned. I don't care what our record was, I care about what the best probability of being better next year is.

 

[Coug90]

I think we should fire him and just elevate an assistant

Moos really screwed this one up...and most who know basketball knew it would not turn out well.

There is certainly no excuse for adding another year to his contract in 2017 by Moos.

Why now? There’s real momentum. Shit this team could win the damn tourney, they beat two of the better teams in the conference and should have beat the best team. They are peaking at the right time let’s see how this plays out

I’ll admit I’m a fairweather Coug b-ball fan. I’ve had no interest this year since the last week, but took my family to the UW game and I’ll be watching both games this week. Seems mike a weird time to be ratcheting up the “Fire Earnie” chants.

 

[Loyal Coug]

I have never seen a Coug use that term so much.

Kent’s initial staff was awful and whatever their recruiting strategy was just as bad.

How is most of the talent being young a bad thing?

Point being after 5 years it is time to be past "we are young". We should be reloading. And why was an experienced head coach's initial staff "awful"? That speaks volumes right there.

Any Coug who uses that term isn't loyal. GTFO with the loser mentality of the past.

But Loyal did use it.

Yes. Loyal isn't loyal.

Oh give me a break. Couging it is the F-ing dictionary fer Chrissakes. You guys sound like Lane Rawlins hen he tried to ban Wazzu because it degraded the brand. We Couged it, and every time we Coug a game I will use the correct dictionary term to describe it.

Imo the problem is we are a young team and after 5 years we shouldn’t be.

Exactly my point. Kent is not some first time coach putting a program together.

Why now? There’s real momentum. Shit this team could win the damn tourney, they beat two of the better teams in the conference and should have beat the best team. They are peaking at the right time let’s see how this plays out
I

I didn't mean right this minute, I meant at the end of the season.

 

[bogusto]

More likely to lose players like Elleby if Kent gets canned. I don't care what our record was, I care about what the best probability of being better next year is.

Best probability of being better next year IS . . . . . wait for it . . . . getting rid of Kent and bringing in someone who won't take 3/4 of a season to get his players engaged on the defensive end.

 

[ElComanche]

Kent will be back next year. Put that in India ink and not the invisible crap of others.The caterwauling and calls for his firing are disloyal BS. There is still a lot of playing ,coaching and recruiting left for this year. The team is coming together and they have just won 2 tough road conference games and should have won the last game. Is that Competitive? That is what many posters were preaching at the start of the season. A couple of posters have personal grudges and feel left out of having privileged access. They respond by trying to spread discontent and trying to undermine the team s coming together and their joy of competing.The cougs have played very good defense and looks like a well coached bunch during this last stretch.. Will that continue? The caterwauls seem to hope with all their might that the team starts complaining and losing by 20 points.

 

[7ICoug]

...calls for his firing are disloyal BS. .

Which those of us who are not new on this board learned from you when it came to the previous Coach. You were right he wasn't perfect, but far better than the current coach.

 

[avabob1]

I was told this story many years ago. Marv Harshman was in about his 4th or 5th year and had struggled through a couple of horrendous seasons. He was totaly on the hot seat, but went to Oregon and swept them. Word was that the sweep saved his job. He also hired Heathcote about that time, and the rest is history.

I dont know whether that is true, and of course the world is a lot different now, but I often think about it when everyone wants a coach gone

 

[7ICoug]

That is the story that I heard at the time and no doubt true. Getting the right assistants is always a good plan. Some achieve it sooner than others.

 

[SaveFerris]

Point being after 5 years it is time to be past "we are young". We should be reloading. And why was an experienced head coach's initial staff "awful"? That speaks volumes right there.

Reloading? When have we ever reloaded? You keep changing the subject instead of answer the question. Hard to believe anyone doesn’t like the potential of Elleby, Kunc, and Cannon from what we have seen this year. I’m still trying to figure out why them being sophomore or juniors next year is also a bad thing.

 

[Observer11]

I think we should fire him and just elevate an assistant

Moos really screwed this one up...and most who know basketball knew it would not turn out well.

There is certainly no excuse for adding another year to his contract in 2017 by Moos.

Except he added FIVE years on the contract.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Why now? There’s real momentum. Shit this team could win the damn tourney, they beat two of the better teams in the conference and should have beat the best team. They are peaking at the right time let’s see how this plays out

I’ll admit I’m a fairweather Coug b-ball fan. I’ve had no interest this year since the last week, but took my family to the UW game and I’ll be watching both games this week. Seems mike a weird time to be ratcheting up the “Fire Earnie” chants.

Appreciate your hope. While they "could" win the tourney, I'd bet the house they won't.

 

[Observer11]

I was told this story many years ago. Marv Harshman was in about his 4th or 5th year and had struggled through a couple of horrendous seasons. He was totaly on the hot seat, but went to Oregon and swept them. Word was that the sweep saved his job. He also hired Heathcote about that time, and the rest is history.

I dont know whether that is true, and of course the world is a lot different now, but I often think about it when everyone wants a coach gone

The only thing the last three games did was save Kirk Schultz from having to dip in the piggy bank early and flat buy out Ernie.

He'll serve out the rest of his contract and then ride off into the sunset. WSU doesn't need what will then be a 67 year old coach extended into his 70's. Definitely don't need one with a winning percentage less than .400.

Harshman in his 4th or 5th year at WSU would have been about 45 years old with a lot of gas left in the tank. Turn it over to an up and comer (maybe even one of the assistants as clearly one of them has ignited a spark - Ernie didn't all of a sudden get proficient - see also his ATO jacked up 3 point heave in the closing seconds on Saturday). Ernie is riding off into the sunset and we are forced to go along for the ride because of his buddy Bill'ss selfishness and ego.

So, correct, crying for him to be fired is going to do no good. We're stuck with him. And, lest anyone forget, WSU is currently 3-9 and in 11th place in a 12 team league. Woo-hoo! Break out the party favors and balloons!

Ernie Kent ain't no Marv Harshman and Bennie Seltzer ain't no Jud Heathcote. Not even close in a million years. Jud and Marv would lose their minds at the sloppy, turnover-filled junk that Ernie puts up with.

If you're not coaching it, you're allowing it to happen.

Not picking on you specifically, ava - but there's some much crap in this thread it's maddening. And it's going to be maddening through the end of the 21-22 season or whenever Schultz decides he's had enough.

 

[avabob1]

Nobody is saying Kent should be extended any further or that Bennie is another Jud. Just pointing out that we are finally getting more talent, and it is starting to show on the court.

Harshman couldnt win until Stein, Mckean, Weirman, Allen. Not about coaching, about recruiting.

 

[ElComanche]

The cougs should do well the rest of the season i am hopeful of two more quality recruits and hope that Observer rides of into sunset soon.It will be interesting to see where the cougs end up in the final standing. The team will be much better team next year mark it in India Ink.

 

[Observer11]

The cougs should do well the rest of the season i am hopeful of two more quality recruits and hope that Observer rides of into sunset soon.It will be interesting to see where the cougs end up in the final standing. The team will be much better team next year mark it in India Ink.

Nope. Been around Cougar basketball since the mid-70's. Only Paul Graham can rival the travesty that was allowed to unfold by Bill No Skin in the Game Himself Moos.

Realize that there are 11 other teams in the conference bringing in two more quality recruits. When Robo leaves, it's going to take a helluva lot more than two quality recruits to replace that. Turn out the lights, the 11th place party is over. Back to the basement again.

You angling for 9th as a finish? Woo Hoo! That is really stretching for excellence.

 

[Coug90]

Appreciate your hope. While they "could" win the tourney, I'd bet the house they won't.

Agree, I wouldn’t put money on it, but I’d say at this juncture of the season it’s pretty apparent this team can compete with any team in the conference. They aren’t overwhelmed talent wise, and sorry but Kent isn’t complete garbage as a coach. You just don’t take two teams to the elite 8 at any point in your career if you are.

It will be a tough road in the tourney they will likely have to play the extra game and will be up against the top seeded teams first. Count me as one who likes a good redemption story and hoping this team does something special and Earnie gets rewarded for it.

 

[Observer11]

Agree, I wouldn’t put money on it, but I’d say at this juncture of the season it’s pretty apparent this team can compete with any team in the conference. They aren’t overwhelmed talent wise, and sorry but Kent isn’t complete garbage as a coach. You just don’t take two teams to the elite 8 at any point in your career if you are.

It will be a tough road in the tourney they will likely have to play the extra game and will be up against the top seeded teams first. Count me as one who likes a good redemption story and hoping this team does something special and Earnie gets rewarded for it.

$1.4 Million per for the last five years isn't reward enough?

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Nobody is saying Kent should be extended any further or that Bennie is another Jud. Just pointing out that we are finally getting more talent, and it is starting to show on the court.

Harshman couldnt win until Stein, Mckean, Weirman, Allen. Not about coaching, about recruiting.

Coaching includes recruiting.

 

[ElComanche]

Observer you are totally out of kilter . It is high time to enjoy the rest of the season and recruits are looking at this improved competitive team. There are some so called fans who are desperately trying to sabotage the program in their own little way . They need to be ignored and left to their self imposed misery. They are but wisps in the wind. In some ways it is amusing to see their spite and anger as they continue their caterwauling as long into the night.

 

[Coug90]

$1.4 Million per for the last five years isn't reward enough?

I’m hoping it’s not. As rough as it’s been, it’s no guarantee the next hire is gonna be Tony Bennett.

Let’s say best case scenario, IF this thing is turning the corner and momentum at the end of this year builds towards future success I’d like to think Earnie would exercise some loyalty to WSU, Chun, Schultz for the long runway he’s been given.

I just don’t see the point in rooting for continued failure to justify ones own frustration.

 

[Observer11]

I’m hoping it’s not. As rough as it’s been, it’s no guarantee the next hire is gonna be Tony Bennett.

Let’s say best case scenario, IF this thing is turning the corner and momentum at the end of this year builds towards future success I’d like to think Earnie would exercise some loyalty to WSU, Chun, Schultz for the long runway he’s been given.

I just don’t see the point in rooting for continued failure to justify ones own frustration.

You weren’t born during the Doba and Wulff years?

 

[Observer11]

Observer you are totally out of kilter . It is high time to enjoy the rest of the season and recruits are looking at this improved competitive team. There are some so called fans who are desperately trying to sabotage the program in their own little way . They need to be ignored and left to their self imposed misery. They are but wisps in the wind. In some ways it is amusing to see their spite and anger as they continue their caterwauling as long into the night.

That’s rich. You spend four years bitching about Luke Falk and now have some epiphany over a guy who has essentially stolen $6 Million from the university?

Spare me your hypocrisy and holier than thou crap.

 

[Coug90]

You weren’t born during the Doba and Wulff years?

Not sure I remember Wulff showing signs of life with any sort of consistency. The game at Oregon State was basically the lone bright spot.

And lay the F off of Doba, he was a great DC, and was horrible timing for him to land the HC job when his wife had terminal cancer. To speak of him in the same breath as Wulff is just irresponsible.

 

[Observer11]

Not sure I remember Wulff showing signs of life with any sort of consistency. The game at Oregon State was basically the lone bright spot.

And lay the F off of Doba, he was a great DC, and was horrible timing for him to land the HC job when his wife had terminal cancer. To speak of him in the same breath as Wulff is just irresponsible.

I am well acquainted with Coach Doba. More than you’d know.

The point was relative to message board commentary.

 

[Coug90]

I am well acquainted with Coach Doba. More than you’d know.

The point was relative to message board commentary.

Good to know. It’s a tradition of mine to shit on my acquaintances in a public forum as well.

 

[Observer11]

Good to know. It’s a tradition of mine to shit on my acquaintances in a public forum as well.

Again - if you read what I wrote -the reference was to behavior of message board posters

And if you're really that interested, go back and research my posts surrounding Coach Doba - virtually every one of them references how his assistants shit on him when he needed them most, and had Judy not been terminally ill, the whole thing probably would have turned out differently.

But you don't want to make that effort because it doesn't support the feeblemindedness of supporting Ernie Kent's circus.