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I watched most of today's practice...

YakiCoug

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Jan 6, 2003
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As always, it's never wise to make assumptions based on one session, but many things stood out to me. If you have any questions, I'll try to answer them.
So, here are some impressions I had...
The projected starting offensive line easily passes the eye test. Abraham Lucas is a monster. Dillard, Mauigoa, Watson, Ryan, and Valencia all look the part. Christian Haangana continues to pare away and is now 346, which is fairly svelte considering he initially showed up at nearly 400 pounds. True frosh Jarrett Kingston and Cade Beresford actually aren't that far away, but Syr Riley and Blake McDonald, at 365 and 330 respectively, need to discover salads. Both appeared quite sluggish in a session of up-downs.
D-line has quite a few bodies, and the one that stands out won't play this season. West Virginia transfer Lamonte McDougle is a veritable wrecking ball. Next year's d-line could be one of the best on the Palouse in quite some time once Lolohea, Echevarria, Aiolupotea-pei, Hobbs, Rodgers, and Mejia get some experience. Little-used Hunter Mattox returns at 290, so there's still hope for him. True frosh Brennan Jackson has a great frame but I see a redshirt for him as well as Ahmir Crowder, who comes in chiseled but at only 255.
Lolohea already is showing great leadership skills in taking Aiolupotea-Pei and Echevarria out for some pre-practice tutoring on gap work. The dude is intense.
The ends look very good. Nnamdi Oguayo is ready to be our next standout, and Derek Moore is stout and quick. And this Ron Stone Jr. fellow? Just wait till he adds some more muscle.
But I know everyone wants to know about the QBs. Tinsley and Minshew got nearly all the action in passing drills later in practice. Don't be surprised if Minshew wins out. He has a great arm, easily better than Falk's was, and as good as Cooper's.
The new DBs are something special athletically. Have we ever had a 6-4 guy (Patrick Nunn) play nickel? He might outgrow the spot, but he's there now.
 
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How much wood could a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood?
 
As always, it's never wise to make assumptions based on one session, but many things stood out to me. If you have any questions, I'll try to answer them.
Well gosh, if "many things" stood out to you, would you care to grace us with a couple examples? My biggest concern is line play on both sides of the ball and the kicking game, so anything related to those would be nice
 
As always, it's never wise to make assumptions based on one session, but many things stood out to me. If you have any questions, I'll try to answer them.

How about a general recap?

Qbs? Minshew?

And what, pray tell, were you doing in Lewiston, Idaho? Yakima not hot enough? :)
 
Honestly, don't care about the QB situation. Especially on a day when they don't give Cooper reps. The Spokesman covered that position battle.

The lines arent in pads so not much to learn here.

I am really interested if any of the newcomers jumped out at you. Hunter Dale said nice things about Halid Djibril and Tyrese Ross. Anyone else?

Any returning players jump out at you?
 
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Well gosh, if "many things" stood out to you, would you care to grace us with a couple examples? My biggest concern is line play on both sides of the ball and the kicking game, so anything related to those would be nice

Check it now...
 
Honestly, don't care about the QB situation. Especially on a day when they don't give Cooper reps. The Spokesman covered that position battle.

The lines arent in pads so not much to learn here.

I am really interested if any of the newcomers jumped out at you. Hunter Dale said nice things about Halid Djibril and Tyrese Ross. Anyone else?

Any returning players jump out at you?

Djibril, Ross, Nunn, and McKenzie all caught my eye. Again, it's just the first day, but their athleticism is undeniable. Chad Davis, the transfer, seems pretty athletic too.
On the d-line, Echevarria is quick off the snap and, slimmer at 300 pounds, he seems stronger than he was in the spring. Once he gets some basics down, I suspect Aiolupotea-Pei, the former rugby player, is going to be a factor. He's very well built (much more so than Mata'afa) and eager to learn. But I sense he's pretty green...
 
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After reading Yaki’s practice report, any naysayers ready to admit this could be an or 8 or 9 win team after all?

Minshew looks like real deal at QB, while the DL seems to have strength in numbers.

After a half-dozen seasons, CML has legitimately built a plug ‘n’ play program.

Just need to avoid the injury bug (like almost every other team) ...
 
After reading Yaki’s practice report, any naysayers ready to admit this could be an or 8 or 9 win team after all?

Minshew looks like real deal at QB, while the DL seems to have strength in numbers.

After a half-dozen seasons, CML has legitimately built a plug ‘n’ play program.

Just need to avoid the injury bug (like almost every other team) ...

Minshew looks very, very good.
 
After reading Yaki’s practice report, any naysayers ready to admit this could be an or 8 or 9 win team after all?

Minshew looks like real deal at QB, while the DL seems to have strength in numbers.

After a half-dozen seasons, CML has legitimately built a plug ‘n’ play program.

Just need to avoid the injury bug (like almost every other team) ...

Day 1 of practice still a long ways to go. I am optimistic and while it’s easy to put on crimson colored glasses I like to carry low expectations especially with the turnover/turmoil . That way when we do suprise everyone I am extra excited.

It’s kind of like going into a movie with tempered expectations and then being blown away by how great it is and enjoying it to the max...

Then going in and reading into all the hype all the previews, reading every fan site and then being let down because what you built in your head doesn’t meet reality.

I’m an optimist, but a tempered realistic one.
 
After reading Yaki’s practice report, any naysayers ready to admit this could be an or 8 or 9 win team after all?

Minshew looks like real deal at QB, while the DL seems to have strength in numbers.

After a half-dozen seasons, CML has legitimately built a plug ‘n’ play program.

Just need to avoid the injury bug (like almost every other team) ...
While I appreciate the recap as I can’t be in Pullman...and sounds promising...it is practice. Every team looks like a preseason National Champion this time of year. I wouldn’t put money on 9 wins with a new QB and a lot of impact players who graduated. I do think they can scratch out 6 and make a bowl.
 
That’s good to hear. There was no reason to think that Minshew wasn’t a legit bet to win the QB job. He’s already started games at the D1 level, and was good enough to draw interest from Alabama.

As is always the case, we need depth at QB, so like Leach said in his interview about the WRs, I hope the battle is intense without a lot of separation.
 
I know I said I was bolting from this forum... but then the military graciously decided that they were going to send me on a 6 month, all expenses paid, vacation later this fall, so this forum may be my only exposure to WSU football this season.

I’m not going to get too excited by Yaki’s observations. Too many times have I read the experts on the basketball forum say that they observed practice and the team was looking strong only to watch the team finish woefully at or near the bottom of the league. Not a knock on you Yaki, I appreciate your observations, I’m just not going to read to much into them.

Being a stats guy, I see the W-L likelihood this season fitting a discretized beta distribution where the mode (most likely outcome) is 6-6 but skewed towards more losses. In non stats terms, I think our floor is a lot lower than are ceiling is high. But I am okay with that. We have a lot of question marks with turnover of both players and staff. I’d be happy with 6-6 and another bowl game, I’d be thrilled with anything more, and I’d be only slightly disappointed with 5 or less wins.

I think the QB competition will come down to Tinsley and Minshew. I am interest to see how that plays out. I know a lot of you are not concerned, but IMO, with the drop off at other position (experience wise not necessarily talent), we need BETTER QB play than we got last year. I think some of that will come down to how well the QBs and the young WRs mesh. I’m very interested in seeing who develops as our deep threat at WR. Last year we had a very difficult time keeping the DBs honest, which really allowed opposing Ds to overcrowd the middle of the field and close the gaps that we like to target in the air-raid. That or the WRs just weren’t able to find the open spaces... maybe it was a little of both?

Anyhow, we should all be excited and maybe even a little nervous about this season. A lot of changeover means we get to see the future of WSU football take over. That is always cool to watch.

Looking forward to some good discussion this season.
 
Every year in August expectations gradually rise sky high. I appreciate the report, and hope for good things, but it's going to be awhile before we can really know very much.
 
As always, it's never wise to make assumptions based on one session, but many things stood out to me. If you have any questions, I'll try to answer them.
So, here are some impressions I had...
The projected starting offensive line easily passes the eye test. Abraham Lucas is a monster. Dillard, Mauigoa, Watson, Ryan, and Valencia all look the part. Christian Haangana continues to pare away and is now 346, which is fairly svelte considering he initially showed up at nearly 400 pounds. True frosh Jarrett Kingston and Cade Beresford actually aren't that far away, but Syr Riley and Blake McDonald, at 365 and 330 respectively, need to discover salads. Both appeared quite sluggish in a session of up-downs.
D-line has quite a few bodies, and the one that stands out won't play this season. West Virginia transfer Lamonte McDougle is a veritable wrecking ball. Next year's d-line could be one of the best on the Palouse in quite some time once Lolohea, Echevarria, Aiolupotea-pei, Hobbs, Rodgers, and Mejia get some experience. Little-used Hunter Mattox returns at 290, so there's still hope for him. True frosh Brennan Jackson has a great frame but I see a redshirt for him as well as Ahmir Crowder, who comes in chiseled but at only 255.
Lolohea already is showing great leadership skills in taking Aiolupotea-Pei and Echevarria out for some pre-practice tutoring on gap work. The dude is intense.
The ends look very good. Nnamdi Oguayo is ready to be our next standout, and Derek Moore is stout and quick. And this Ron Stone Jr. fellow? Just wait till he adds some more muscle.
But I know everyone wants to know about the QBs. Tinsley and Minshew got nearly all the action in passing drills later in practice. Don't be surprised if Minshew wins out. He has a great arm, easily better than Falk's was, and as good as Cooper's.
The new DBs are something special athletically. Have we ever had a 6-4 guy (Patrick Nunn) play nickel? He might outgrow the spot, but he's there now.
I was hoping they'd been lifting weights over the last year and had been staying McDonald's. It could also be they have been lifting weights but not doing much cardo.
 
Every year in August expectations gradually rise sky high. I appreciate the report, and hope for good things, but it's going to be awhile before we can really know very much.

Optimism is high on most fan boards this time of the year. I’m still cautious about this season and my expectations are mild, but the one thing we have going for us is Leach’s track record.

After his 2nd season at Texas Tech, he never won fewer than 8 games. After his 3rd season at WSU, he’s never won fewer than 8 games.

The Air Raid isn’t, in my opinion, an offense that will consistently challenge the very upper crust P5 Conference teams, but there will be 8-9 teams on our schedule every season that will have a hell of a hard fielding a defense that can deal with it, and/or an offense that can score enough points to overcome it.
 
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Thanks for the review, Yaki. And good to see that you are playing nice with Loyal. Can Ed be far behind or is that too much to expect?
 
Optimism is high on most fan boards this time of the year. I’m still cautious about this season and my expectations are mild, but the one thing we have going for us is Leach’s track record.

After his 2nd season at Texas Tech, he never won fewer than 8 games. After his 3rd season at WSU, he’s never won fewer than 8 games.

The Air Raid isn’t, in my opinion, an offense that will consistently challenge the very upper crust P5 Conference teams, but there will be 8-9 teams on our schedule every season that will have a hell of a hard fielding a defense that can deal with it, and/or an offense that can score enough points to overcome it.
"Optimism is high on most fan boards this time of the year."

So true! Go over to like an Oregon State board, or the equivalent, and it's always a bright outlook, with hope, and more hope and wishful thinking. So much talent in our conference, that almost everyone looks good this time of year.
 
After reading Yaki’s practice report, any naysayers ready to admit this could be an or 8 or 9 win team after all?...

I will say this. Leach never had a rebuilding year at Tech. He did have to rebuild the Wulff disaster. I predict we’ll have another year like the last 3. 6+ PAC 12 wins. In fact, I would say there is a far greater chance of 10 total wins than 5 total wins. This program is running on all cylinders. We are not defined by our QB, or an undrafted free agent DL.
 
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I will say this. Leach never had a rebuilding year at Tech. He did have to rebuild the Wulff disaster. I predict we’ll have another year like the last 3. 6+ PAC 12 wins. In fact, I would say there is a far greater chance of 10 total wins than 5 total wins. This program is running on all cylinders. We are not defined by our QB, or an undrafted free agent DL.

Love the optimism, but there is just no way 10 wins are more likely than 5. I'd buy you saying 8 wins are more likely than 5, perhaps, but I think this is an(other) instance of the program getting stronger overall but not being in a position to actually beat more Pac-12 teams than not this fall. What would we say about any other team that has to replace 2/3 of its coaches, replace an All-American on the DL, an all-time record holder at QB, two of the top three WRs, the overall best player (Morrow), and a bunch of other guys, all while dealing with the suicide of the guy who was set to start at QB, with his replacement likely either being another walk-on or a guy who didn't even cleanly hold down the job on a pretty bad Group of Five team?

I don't mean to be overly negative--I think the overall talent level has continued to increase and think there's room on the upside for certain--but am just trying to balance out the allusion to 10 wins being more likely than 5. If not completely insane, that at the very least lacks any reasonable foundation I can think of. Remember, the question isn't whether we have any good players, or even whether the team is better than last year (if that's what you believe) ... the question is whether these guys are going to, 10 times out of 12 (or 6 out of 9 in Pac-12 play, as you say), beat the other teams' players and coaches.
 
Love the optimism, but there is just no way 10 wins are more likely than 5. I'd buy you saying 8 wins are more likely than 5, perhaps, but I think this is an(other) instance of the program getting stronger overall but not being in a position to actually beat more Pac-12 teams than not this fall. What would we say about any other team that has to replace 2/3 of its coaches, replace an All-American on the DL, an all-time record holder at QB, two of the top three WRs, the overall best player (Morrow), and a bunch of other guys, all while dealing with the suicide of the guy who was set to start at QB, with his replacement likely either being another walk-on or a guy who didn't even cleanly hold down the job on a pretty bad Group of Five team?

I don't mean to be overly negative--I think the overall talent level has continued to increase and think there's room on the upside for certain--but am just trying to balance out the allusion to 10 wins being more likely than 5. If not completely insane, that at the very least lacks any reasonable foundation I can think of. Remember, the question isn't whether we have any good players, or even whether the team is better than last year (if that's what you believe) ... the question is whether these guys are going to, 10 times out of 12 (or 6 out of 9 in Pac-12 play, as you say), beat the other teams' players and coaches.
What seems to happen though is we aren't in nearly as bad of shape as perceived and other programs (typically those not named UW, Stanford, SC) don't end up nearly as good as perceived.

We need 3 OOC wins and in the process to stay relatively healthy. Then manage 2 wins against Utah (has recently been agood matchup for us) and OSU and end the first half of the season at 5-1. That's not out of the questions and would put us right in the thick of it again heading in to a stretch of Oregon, Stanford, Cal, CU, and Arizona. Some talented teams but who knows at this point whether the stretch ends up murderers row or potentially soft.

Some teams will end up really good while others will end up spiraling down the drain. Hopefully we are in the former category as we have been the last few seasons. Get to 5-1 to start the season and 8 or 9 wins looks doable. Wyoming on the road to start isn't an easy task with so many new faces but have to have that one.
 
Love the optimism, but there is just no way 10 wins are more likely than 5. I'd buy you saying 8 wins are more likely than 5, perhaps, but I think this is an(other) instance of the program getting stronger overall but not being in a position to actually beat more Pac-12 teams than not this fall. What would we say about any other team that has to replace 2/3 of its coaches, replace an All-American on the DL, an all-time record holder at QB, two of the top three WRs, the overall best player (Morrow), and a bunch of other guys, all while dealing with the suicide of the guy who was set to start at QB, with his replacement likely either being another walk-on or a guy who didn't even cleanly hold down the job on a pretty bad Group of Five team?

I don't mean to be overly negative--I think the overall talent level has continued to increase and think there's room on the upside for certain--but am just trying to balance out the allusion to 10 wins being more likely than 5. If not completely insane, that at the very least lacks any reasonable foundation I can think of. Remember, the question isn't whether we have any good players, or even whether the team is better than last year (if that's what you believe) ... the question is whether these guys are going to, 10 times out of 12 (or 6 out of 9 in Pac-12 play, as you say), beat the other teams' players and coaches.

As far as replacing coaches goes, I have a hunch there'll be zero drop off with McBath and Shaver as the DB coaches. Claeys and Spurrier Jr. and "learning curve" do not belong in the same sentence. But it's never an easy proposition predicting how a team will do. I and a couple now-former athletic department officials up in the stands for the 1997 spring game didn't see a conference champion on the field.
But I do believe that if Jeff Phelps can get a functional and effective rotation out of Lolohea, Echevarria, Hobbs, Mattox, Aiolupotea-Pei, Rodgers, Begg, Tago, and Comfort, and if the O-line can stay healthy, and if a QB emerges (I'm confident that two or three will), we could have a very good season. The program expects to win. And we should too.
 
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I think a good and a bowl season is possible. The play at the QB position should be better no matter who starts.I wonder about the defense. I wonder if the return of Peyton Pelleur will really help the defense?. When he was playing a lot of people always said he was a step too slow. Now posters are saying it is a huge deal for him to return.Sure, one can know the defense's responsibilities but is he quick and fast enough to make the plays? A lot of linebackers got experience last year and perhaps they may be better than Peyton? This is a question and not a statement. I like leaders who lead by example . So there are plenty of questions but a heck of a lot of potential on this years team.
 
What would we say about any other team that has to replace 2/3 of its coaches, replace an All-American on the DL, an all-time record holder at QB, two of the top three WRs, the overall best player (Morrow), and a bunch of other guys, all while dealing with the suicide of the guy who was set to start at QB, with his replacement likely either being another walk-on or a guy who didn't even cleanly hold down the job on a pretty bad Group of Five team?

Used to think Jamal Morrow would go down as the most underrated WSU player I ever saw.

Come to realize a lot more people knew just how great he was the past four seasons.
 
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As far as replacing coaches goes, I have a hunch there'll be zero drop off with McBath and Shaver as the DB coaches. Claeys and Spurrier Jr. and "learning curve" do not belong in the same sentence. But it's never an easy proposition predicting how a team will do. I and a couple now-former athletic department officials up in the stands for the 1997 spring game didn't see a conference champion on the field.
But I do believe that if Jeff Phelps can get a functional and effective rotation out of Lolohea, Echevarria, Hobbs, Mattox, Aiolupotea-Pei, Rodgers, Begg, Tago, and Comfort, and if the O-line can stay healthy, and if a QB emerges (I'm confident that two or three will), we could have a very good season. The program expects to win. And we should too.

To make sure it's clear, I'm not saying the team is doomed to have a very bad year or that I expect one. I just think 5-7, perhaps with some close losses, is many times more likely than 10-2. To make sure I'm also clear on this point, I agree that some of the new blood could turn out to be better than what it replaced, both on the field and on the coaching staff, not just in the medium to long-term but right away. Injuries may play a big role, too, especially on the lines. I'll go to the mat arguing that it's nuts to say 10-2 (or even 9-3 and then winning the bowl game) is more likely than 5-7 this year, though.

As mentioned, I could buy an argument that 8 wins are more likely than 5. My own guess, if I had to make one today, is 7-6.
 
In the Price era this would be a 3-9, 4-8 season. The program is better than that now, but not sure we are more than 2-3 wins better.
 
Love the optimism, but there is just no way 10 wins are more likely than 5. I'd buy you saying 8 wins are more likely than 5, perhaps, but I think this is an(other) instance of the program getting stronger overall but not being in a position to actually beat more Pac-12 teams than not this fall. What would we say about any other team that has to replace 2/3 of its coaches, replace an All-American on the DL, an all-time record holder at QB, two of the top three WRs, the overall best player (Morrow), and a bunch of other guys, all while dealing with the suicide of the guy who was set to start at QB, with his replacement likely either being another walk-on or a guy who didn't even cleanly hold down the job on a pretty bad Group of Five team?

I don't mean to be overly negative--I think the overall talent level has continued to increase and think there's room on the upside for certain--but am just trying to balance out the allusion to 10 wins being more likely than 5. If not completely insane, that at the very least lacks any reasonable foundation I can think of. Remember, the question isn't whether we have any good players, or even whether the team is better than last year (if that's what you believe) ... the question is whether these guys are going to, 10 times out of 12 (or 6 out of 9 in Pac-12 play, as you say), beat the other teams' players and coaches.

Good news is, Phelps was the architect of the speed D. He was an understudy of Claeys...... there are many new coaching staffs in the PAC 12. Statistically speaking, Leach’s history says that he’ll win 7-9 games this year. 10 is a stretch, yes. But, 5 would be an anomaly as it has never happened with his players.

BTW, as you focus on 10 wins..... even more ludacris is thinking that Leach would win 5 wins and miss a bowl game. Again, it’s NEVER happened in Leach’s career with his own players.... Never! Pretty cool to think about.
 
Good news is, Phelps was the architect of the speed D. He was an understudy of Claeys...... there are many new coaching staffs in the PAC 12. Statistically speaking, Leach’s history says that he’ll win 7-9 games this year. 10 is a stretch, yes. But, 5 would be an anomaly as it has never happened with his players.

BTW, as you focus on 10 wins..... even more ludacris is thinking that he would go 5 wins and miss a bowl game. Again, it’s NEVER happened in Leach’s career with his own players.... Never! But you continue to focus on 10.

That's right. If you want to call responding to something you wrote "focus[ing] on it," cool ... I stand by what I wrote, and while the only things I'd love more than 10 wins are 11 or more, 5 are much more likely. I've given sufficient additional color.
 
That's right. If you want to call responding to something you wrote "focus[ing] on it," cool ... I stand by what I wrote, and while the only things I'd love more than 10 wins are 11 or more, 5 are much more likely. I've given sufficient additional color.

Facts > Color. Seriously, stop referring back to “WSU, little ol’ Coug” history. As long as Leach is our coach, we aren’t going to have 5 bad years for every 1 bowl year. The facts aren’t on your side. Get ready to enjoy another season where we are fighting for a north title.
 
Facts > Color. Seriously, stop referring back to “WSU, little ol’ Coug” history. As long as Leach is our coach, we aren’t going to have 5 bad years for every 1 bowl year. The facts aren’t on your side. Get ready to enjoy another season where we are fighting for a north title.

I didn't refer to any history. I certainly didn't write anything about requiring 5 bad years, or any number of bad years, in any period, much less for any bowl year. If you want to write generally about your optimistic take, great. I'm not even all that bearish. I just don't think 10 wins are more likely than 5.

If you're going to refer to me, or to engage with me, cut the bullshit. You certainly shouldn't be stating or implying that I wrote anything I didn't.
 
I didn't refer to any history. I certainly didn't write anything about requiring 5 bad years, or any number of bad years, in any period, much less for any bowl year. If you want to write generally about your optimistic take, great. I'm not even all that bearish. I just don't think 10 wins are more likely than 5.

If you're going to refer to me, or to engage with me, cut the bullshit. You certainly shouldn't be stating or implying that I wrote anything I didn't.
Facts > Color. Seriously, stop referring back to “WSU, little ol’ Coug” history. As long as Leach is our coach, we aren’t going to have 5 bad years for every 1 bowl year. The facts aren’t on your side. Get ready to enjoy another season where we are fighting for a north title.


I think we will have a good season. While some have tempered expectations some are all in ready to roll. It’s all good. We got a lot of football ahead of us. So let’s enjoy the ride. I’m excited about this season.
 
Good news is, Phelps was the architect of the speed D. He was an understudy of Claeys...... there are many new coaching staffs in the PAC 12. Statistically speaking, Leach’s history says that he’ll win 7-9 games this year. 10 is a stretch, yes. But, 5 would be an anomaly as it has never happened with his players.

BTW, as you focus on 10 wins..... even more ludacris is thinking that Leach would win 5 wins and miss a bowl game. Again, it’s NEVER happened in Leach’s career with his own players.... Never! Pretty cool to think about.

Give others time to realize WSU has changed as a program. We will have continue to move forward. Which new players are you most excited about?
 
I think a good and a bowl season is possible. The play at the QB position should be better no matter who starts.I wonder about the defense. I wonder if the return of Peyton Pelleur will really help the defense?. When he was playing a lot of people always said he was a step too slow. Now posters are saying it is a huge deal for him to return.Sure, one can know the defense's responsibilities but is he quick and fast enough to make the plays? A lot of linebackers got experience last year and perhaps they may be better than Peyton? This is a question and not a statement. I like leaders who lead by example . So there are plenty of questions but a heck of a lot of potential on this years team.

If Pelleur had been in the Arizona game there is a good chance we could have won. He would not have been out of position so often. He may not be a speed demon but he's fast enough to be there in the play and then there are the intangibles....
 
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