Is this the end of the line for WSU?

CougPatrol

Hall Of Fame
Dec 8, 2006
12,687
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Barring a dramatic turnaround in the portal season, we're heading into the offseason with perhaps the worst defense in the conference in 2023. We gave up 700 yards to UW in the Apple Cup, and face a schedule in 2023 that includes UW with Penix back, Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, Arizona, Colorado with Deion, and a revamped Wisconsin program that just raided North Carolina's potent offensive coordinator and o-line coach. Will we be favored in any of those games? Not likely.

Is 2023 the beginning of the end? Do we sputter to a 3-9 season with Dickert and Morris, hang onto them for "one more year" in 2024 and fall too far behind the rest of the programs in our league to compete? Is there another Mike Leach miracle hire out there? Maybe not.

This could be it, folks. I see major storm clouds on the horizon. It's been fun.
 
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KRUSTYtheCOUG

Team Captain
Dec 29, 2018
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Barring a dramatic turnaround in the portal season, we're heading into the offseason with perhaps the worst defense in the conference in 2023. We gave up 700 yards to UW in the Apple Cup, and face a schedule in 2023 that includes UW with Penix back, Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, Arizona, Colorado with Deion, and a revamped Wisconsin program that just raided North Carolina's potent offensive coordinator and o-line coach. Will we be favored in any of those games? Not likely.

Is 2023 the beginning of the end? Do we sputter to a 3-9 season with Dickert and Morris, hang onto them for "one more year" in 2024 and fall too far behind the rest of the programs in our league to compete? Is there another Mike Leach miracle hire out there? Maybe not.

This could be it, folks. I see major storm clouds on the horizon. It's been fun.
Maybe. That's all I have to say about that.
 

CougEd

Hall Of Fame
Dec 22, 2002
22,052
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Barring a dramatic turnaround in the portal season, we're heading into the offseason with perhaps the worst defense in the conference in 2023. We gave up 700 yards to UW in the Apple Cup, and face a schedule in 2023 that includes UW with Penix back, Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, Arizona, Colorado with Deion, and a revamped Wisconsin program that just raided North Carolina's potent offensive coordinator and o-line coach. Will we be favored in any of those games? Not likely.

Is 2023 the beginning of the end? Do we sputter to a 3-9 season with Dickert and Morris, hang onto them for "one more year" in 2024 and fall too far behind the rest of the programs in our league to compete? Is there another Mike Leach miracle hire out there? Maybe not.

This could be it, folks. I see major storm clouds on the horizon. It's been fun.
We go to a more appropriate conference .

But I will say we are at no more a disadvantage now than what we’re were in 76 when we had four coaches in four years and in 81 playing for a rose bowl .

Looking at our linebackers under Dickert they were always in the right spot . They played well. Hell Doba had Bennett, Dildine, Ira Davis and always had good linebacker play . Move Lockett up from safety if needed . I think they will be ok .
 

CougPatrol

Hall Of Fame
Dec 8, 2006
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We go to a more appropriate conference .

But I will say we are at no more a disadvantage now than what we’re were in 76 when we had four coaches in four years and in 81 playing for a rose bowl .

Looking at our linebackers under Dickert they were always in the right spot . They played well. Hell Doba had Bennett, Dildine, Ira Davis and always had good linebacker play . Move Lockett up from safety if needed . I think they will be ok .
We're not the only conference program facing these massive challenges. Does Oregon State survive? Colorado once Deion bolts? Stanford and Cal will never be able to compete for revolving door portal players.

When the initial buzz of NIL wears off, I don't see many West coast programs coming anywhere close to what programs in the Midwest, Southwest, and Southeast will offer financially. Northern climate schools in particular are going to be hard pressed to hang onto talent.
 

CougEd

Hall Of Fame
Dec 22, 2002
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We're not the only conference program facing these massive challenges. Does Oregon State survive? Colorado once Deion bolts? Stanford and Cal will never be able to compete for revolving door portal players.

When the initial buzz of NIL wears off, I don't see many West coast programs coming anywhere close to what programs in the Midwest, Southwest, and Southeast will offer financially. Northern climate schools in particular are going to be hard pressed to hang onto talent.
It's interesting, OSU and UW have three kids in the portal. I wonder why no big school has come after thei RB. Speaking of which, I would recruit every back OSU is recruiting. In four years I believe they have had four different backs and all have been really good.

With Leach I never worried about QB's and WR's. With Dickert I may be overly optimistic, but he replaced 4/5's of a secondary and seemed to do well. I think by next year we will be ok at linebacker. But I will miss both the ones that are leaving early.
 

ttowncoug

Hall Of Fame
Sep 9, 2001
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We need to find niche guys - like the ones that contributed this year - for success.

We simply can't compete in the NIL space like other schools can.

WSU has and always will be about fit. Find out fit for guys. And fit for program. Don't worry about what the other guys are going, just do our job well.
 

SaveFerris

Hall Of Fame
Dec 21, 2001
14,081
1,215
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Barring a dramatic turnaround in the portal season, we're heading into the offseason with perhaps the worst defense in the conference in 2023. We gave up 700 yards to UW in the Apple Cup, and face a schedule in 2023 that includes UW with Penix back, Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, Arizona, Colorado with Deion, and a revamped Wisconsin program that just raided North Carolina's potent offensive coordinator and o-line coach. Will we be favored in any of those games? Not likely.

Is 2023 the beginning of the end? Do we sputter to a 3-9 season with Dickert and Morris, hang onto them for "one more year" in 2024 and fall too far behind the rest of the programs in our league to compete? Is there another Mike Leach miracle hire out there? Maybe not.

This could be it, folks. I see major storm clouds on the horizon. It's been fun.
Feels like if it's the end for WSU it's the end of college football as we know it. How does Northwestern ever be anything other than a doormat in the B1G? Iowa? Indiana? Much bigger donor bases, but are they throwing $250K for a QB?

Might as well just have the best resourced of the SEC and B1G form their own league to seed for the CFP.
 

kougkurt

Hall Of Fame
Gold Member
Nov 19, 2011
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So if you are a high end recruit. Are you going to a Blue Blood Program for little or no NIL, or Tulane for $100k.

Does being a “Blue Blood” program guarantee you will have high end NIL $. Or could the Sam Houston’s and Rice’s of the world be the next dominant programs?
 

COUGinNCW

Hall Of Fame
Oct 5, 2010
4,384
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Barring a dramatic turnaround in the portal season, we're heading into the offseason with perhaps the worst defense in the conference in 2023. We gave up 700 yards to UW in the Apple Cup, and face a schedule in 2023 that includes UW with Penix back, Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, Arizona, Colorado with Deion, and a revamped Wisconsin program that just raided North Carolina's potent offensive coordinator and o-line coach. Will we be favored in any of those games? Not likely.

Is 2023 the beginning of the end? Do we sputter to a 3-9 season with Dickert and Morris, hang onto them for "one more year" in 2024 and fall too far behind the rest of the programs in our league to compete? Is there another Mike Leach miracle hire out there? Maybe not.

This could be it, folks. I see major storm clouds on the horizon. It's been fun.
Sure feels like it.
 

BleedCrimsonandGray

Hall Of Fame
Oct 2, 2007
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I find myself caring very little. Or at least a much as the WSU and other schools regents, presidents and ADs who neglected to press the pause button before this thing went fully off the tracks, as many knew it would.

If this is the NCAA that they want, let them have it, but I no longer feel obligated to financially support a program that has no interest in its own self preservation.
 

PeteTheChop

Head Coach
May 25, 2005
1,204
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I find myself caring very little. Or at least a much as the WSU and other schools regents, presidents and ADs who neglected to press the pause button before this thing went fully off the tracks, as many knew it would.

If this is the NCAA that they want, let them have it, but I no longer feel obligated to financially support a program that has no interest in its own self preservation.

Maybe this can be the thing that really lights a fire under Schultzie and Chun to stengthen their support for Cougar Football
 

Coug90

Hall Of Fame
Jan 17, 2012
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I find myself caring very little. Or at least a much as the WSU and other schools regents, presidents and ADs who neglected to press the pause button before this thing went fully off the tracks, as many knew it would.

If this is the NCAA that they want, let them have it, but I no longer feel obligated to financially support a program that has no interest in its own self preservation.
Yup this isn’t college football anymore it’s NFL Lite. I love the Cougs as much as anyone but this bullshit is making me lose interest. Something I thought I’d never say.
 

longtimecoug

Hall Of Fame
Dec 22, 2002
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Barring a dramatic turnaround in the portal season, we're heading into the offseason with perhaps the worst defense in the conference in 2023. We gave up 700 yards to UW in the Apple Cup, and face a schedule in 2023 that includes UW with Penix back, Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, Arizona, Colorado with Deion, and a revamped Wisconsin program that just raided North Carolina's potent offensive coordinator and o-line coach. Will we be favored in any of those games? Not likely.

Is 2023 the beginning of the end? Do we sputter to a 3-9 season with Dickert and Morris, hang onto them for "one more year" in 2024 and fall too far behind the rest of the programs in our league to compete? Is there another Mike Leach miracle hire out there? Maybe not.

This could be it, folks. I see major storm clouds on the horizon. It's been fun.
Calm down
 
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Coug1990

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Dec 22, 2002
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Yup this isn’t college football anymore it’s NFL Lite. I love the Cougs as much as anyone but this bullshit is making me lose interest. Something I thought I’d never say.
The NFL has way more rules to even the playing field, including revenue sharing and a salary cap. It would be wonderful if College football acted as together as the NFL instead of everyone out for themselves.
 

roses04

Head Coach
Oct 4, 2003
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Someone on here posted a scene from Moneyball, about rich teams, other teams, 50 feet of crap, then there is us. That is where WSU is and always has been, the portal NIL makes it more difficult in that it is tough keep the diamonds rough once they start to shine. So we have to find a combination of the portal and developing and keeping players, not an easy job, and time will tell if it can be done. People like to compare us to OSU, but OSU has a lot more money than WSU, so not a fair comparison. Have to keep getting to bowl games and promising exposure to kids, not every team can sell that right now. I do believe winning the conference becomes next to impossible for a school like WSU without a big donor. On the other hand look at all the money Texas A&M spent, they ended up 5-7, so money doesn't guarantee results, but it sure helps.
 

PeteTheChop

Head Coach
May 25, 2005
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People like to compare us to OSU, but OSU has a lot more money than WSU, so not a fair comparison.

???

Washington is a more prosperous state than Oregon and WSU's endowment is like $400M more than OSU's.

WSU's football attendance has been as good if not better over the years — and the Cougs have certainly been a more consistent winner than the Beavs.

Where does "OSU has a lot more money than WSU" come from?
 

NMBRCRNCHR

All Conference
Aug 27, 2018
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???

Washington is a more prosperous state than Oregon and WSU's endowment is like $400M more than OSU's.

WSU's football attendance has been as good if not better over the years — and the Cougs have certainly been a more consistent winner than the Beavs.

Where does "OSU has a lot more money than WSU" come from?
I'm guessing the reference is to potato salad money that goes directly to the OSU football program. After all these years, we still don't have our own daddy warbucks.
 
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roses04

Head Coach
Oct 4, 2003
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raised 50 million last year

Average attendance has exceed WSU for years, look a the numbers, Due to construction on their stadium, capacity this year was around 24,000, and they sold out all 6 games, prior to that their average attendance exceed our capacity
 

BleedCrimsonandGray

Hall Of Fame
Oct 2, 2007
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???

Washington is a more prosperous state than Oregon and WSU's endowment is like $400M more than OSU's.

WSU's football attendance has been as good if not better over the years — and the Cougs have certainly been a more consistent winner than the Beavs.

Where does "OSU has a lot more money than WSU" come from?
Geez dude, living under a rock much?
 

mikalalas

Hall Of Fame
Feb 26, 2007
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Someone on here posted a scene from Moneyball, about rich teams, other teams, 50 feet of crap, then there is us. That is where WSU is and always has been, the portal NIL makes it more difficult in that it is tough keep the diamonds rough once they start to shine. So we have to find a combination of the portal and developing and keeping players, not an easy job, and time will tell if it can be done. People like to compare us to OSU, but OSU has a lot more money than WSU, so not a fair comparison. Have to keep getting to bowl games and promising exposure to kids, not every team can sell that right now. I do believe winning the conference becomes next to impossible for a school like WSU without a big donor. On the other hand look at all the money Texas A&M spent, they ended up 5-7, so money doesn't guarantee results, but it sure helps.


I agree that WSU doesn't compare to Ore St, but not because of what you pointed out.

There was a stretch, when Ore St, only won 0,1,2,3,4 games, a season, and NO BOWL games for about 25,30,35,40,45 years STRAIGHT.

Colleges with SUBSTANTIALLY more money then WSU don't do that kind of thing.

Ore St might have a wee tiny little bit more money then WSU, but not much more.

In that sense WSU and Ore St are comparable, similar colleges.

But that's where the comparison, similarity ends.

WSU has been, is a better program.

Now J Smith, might change that at Ore St.

We'll see what happens.
 

PeteTheChop

Head Coach
May 25, 2005
1,204
315
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Geez dude, living under a rock much?
Season 3 Wall GIF by The Simpsons


Knew of the potato salad dynasty but didn't realize what a financial game-changer it was for the Beavs
 

CougEd

Hall Of Fame
Dec 22, 2002
22,052
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Barring a dramatic turnaround in the portal season, we're heading into the offseason with perhaps the worst defense in the conference in 2023. We gave up 700 yards to UW in the Apple Cup, and face a schedule in 2023 that includes UW with Penix back, Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, Arizona, Colorado with Deion, and a revamped Wisconsin program that just raided North Carolina's potent offensive coordinator and o-line coach. Will we be favored in any of those games? Not likely.

Is 2023 the beginning of the end? Do we sputter to a 3-9 season with Dickert and Morris, hang onto them for "one more year" in 2024 and fall too far behind the rest of the programs in our league to compete? Is there another Mike Leach miracle hire out there? Maybe not.

This could be it, folks. I see major storm clouds on the horizon. It's been fun.
In all seriousness, WSU had faced these serious challenges before. Just of a different kind. How about never playing your rival UW in Pullman from 57 to 82. How about not playing UCLA or USC in Pullman from 50's to the 80's. How about sharing your practice field with intramurals and by October 10th the field is so torn up the team had to head to martin stadium literally practicing every day on concrete. You know how many knees were blown because of that?

We had four coaches in four years. Probably the only team that can relate is Oregon, but they have such a brand doesn't matter who is selling it. Helfrich, Taggart, Mario C and now Lanning. The money and marketing will always be there.

We were in the state with one of the top two teams in the conference year in and year out. A school hell bent on burying us. Once we beat them in 82 and 83, Lude was not going to allow us to get our money and exposure if he could help it.

It 1990 we had a home and home with BYU. Because we were so desperate for money we sold back our home game to BYU.

Back in the day school started in late September and they played Sept home games in Spokane. The season was a third over by the time the students got back in town, played maybe three home games in Pullman so how do fans make a connection. Somehow we did.

Scheduling- 79 away Ohio State and Syracuse. 80 Tennessee, 81 Colorado, 82 CU, Minnesota, Tennessee, 83 Michigan, 84 Tenn, Ohio State, 85 Ohio State and Utah.

Facilities- you know what a facilities upgrade was? This is the absolute truth. During July on the coaches time off, they would go to the local hardware store, Rima Paint and hardware. They would pick up a couple of gallons of paint and paint their own office. Think about that. They didn't even have a maintenance person who would paint it for them. Back then there offices were in the bowels of Bohler, with no exterior windows from their offices.

WSU was always threatened with removal from the Pac 8/10. Once Walden had us play for the rose Bowl in 81 that talk died down. I sort of think of WSU like I think of the wheat farmers. They roll up their sleeves, maybe wake up during the tough times at 4 vs 430 and get to work. I have always envisioned that for WSU.

Portal rules will change. TV will make it so. As will the Ad's . Individually they can't stop themselves, but at some point they will institute a rule if a coach leaves the players can too, but they have to sit out a year if they join the coach.

NIL will change. Maybe something more equitable for all the athletes.
 

Coug90

Hall Of Fame
Jan 17, 2012
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The NFL has way more rules to even the playing field, including revenue sharing and a salary cap. It would be wonderful if College football acted as together as the NFL instead of everyone out for themselves.
This scenario is the worst of both worlds. The NFL is watchable because there’s a salary cap and built in parity. There’s already tremendous advantages in college for some schools and they just poured gasoline on it with the NIL and transfer portal.
 

PeteTheChop

Head Coach
May 25, 2005
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In all seriousness, WSU had faced these serious challenges before. Just of a different kind. How about never playing your rival UW in Pullman from 57 to 82. How about not playing UCLA or USC in Pullman from 50's to the 80's. How about sharing your practice field with intramurals and by October 10th the field is so torn up the team had to head to martin stadium literally practicing every day on concrete. You know how many knees were blown because of that?

We had four coaches in four years. Probably the only team that can relate is Oregon, but they have such a brand doesn't matter who is selling it. Helfrich, Taggart, Mario C and now Lanning. The money and marketing will always be there.

We were in the state with one of the top two teams in the conference year in and year out. A school hell bent on burying us. Once we beat them in 82 and 83, Lude was not going to allow us to get our money and exposure if he could help it.

It 1990 we had a home and home with BYU. Because we were so desperate for money we sold back our home game to BYU.

Back in the day school started in late September and they played Sept home games in Spokane. The season was a third over by the time the students got back in town, played maybe three home games in Pullman so how do fans make a connection. Somehow we did.

Scheduling- 79 away Ohio State and Syracuse. 80 Tennessee, 81 Colorado, 82 CU, Minnesota, Tennessee, 83 Michigan, 84 Tenn, Ohio State, 85 Ohio State and Utah.

Facilities- you know what a facilities upgrade was? This is the absolute truth. During July on the coaches time off, they would go to the local hardware store, Rima Paint and hardware. They would pick up a couple of gallons of paint and paint their own office. Think about that. They didn't even have a maintenance person who would paint it for them. Back then there offices were in the bowels of Bohler, with no exterior windows from their offices.

WSU was always threatened with removal from the Pac 8/10. Once Walden had us play for the rose Bowl in 81 that talk died down. I sort of think of WSU like I think of the wheat farmers. They roll up their sleeves, maybe wake up during the tough times at 4 vs 430 and get to work. I have always envisioned that for WSU.

Portal rules will change. TV will make it so. As will the Ad's . Individually they can't stop themselves, but at some point they will institute a rule if a coach leaves the players can too, but they have to sit out a year if they join the coach.

NIL will change. Maybe something more equitable for all the athletes.

Wonderful post Ed.

Back in those mid-late 70's, when home games were split between Martin (capacity 26.5k) and Joe Albi (35k), which, seating capacity aside, was the better venue to watch a D-1 football game?
 

PeteTheChop

Head Coach
May 25, 2005
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Once Walden had us play for the rose Bowl in 81 that talk died down.

I know he took some heat at times for his unyielding support of Coach Wulff and subtle potshots at Coach Leach, but imho hard to overstate the impact of CJW's accomplishments and tenacity on the WSU Football legacy.

Still can't fathom the idea of USC, UCLA, UW etcetera telling the WSU administration: "We will come to Spokane. We won't come to Pullman. Deal with it."

Can't imagine Moos or Chun ever agreeing to such an arrangement
 

CougEd

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Dec 22, 2002
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I know he took some heat at times for his unyielding support of Coach Wulff and subtle potshots at Coach Leach, but imho hard to overstate the impact of CJW's accomplishments and tenacity on the WSU Football legacy.

Still can't fathom the idea of USC, UCLA, UW etcetera telling the WSU administration: "We will come to Spokane. We won't come to Pullman. Deal with it."

Can't imagine Moos or Chun ever agreeing to such an arrangement
USC went as far as saying we will play you in the Kingdome.
 
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CougEd

Hall Of Fame
Dec 22, 2002
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Wonderful post Ed.

Back in those mid-late 70's, when home games were split between Martin (capacity 26.5k) and Joe Albi (35k), which, seating capacity aside, was the better venue to watch a D-1 football game?
I never saw a game in Spokane.

I lived back east, so when school started say 9/20/1979/80/81/82, I got to campus probably the 13th. I never made the trek up there and I may have missed a game a season because of it. (assuming I was in the state of Washington when it was played...in most cases they already had three games under their belt when I got back to campus)

And when I got there WSU had to be at 40k to stay in the Pac 10 as it just brought in ASU and Arizona.
 
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CougEd

Hall Of Fame
Dec 22, 2002
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I know he took some heat at times for his unyielding support of Coach Wulff and subtle potshots at Coach Leach, but imho hard to overstate the impact of CJW's accomplishments and tenacity on the WSU Football legacy.

Still can't fathom the idea of USC, UCLA, UW etcetera telling the WSU administration: "We will come to Spokane. We won't come to Pullman. Deal with it."

Can't imagine Moos or Chun ever agreeing to such an arrangement
Without Walden we wouldn't be where we were in 97 and where we are now. Like with Leach, he knew when to leave. But he never quit thinking about the Cougs. Ever.

Do you think when Leach is retired he will donate 100k to WSU? I don't.
 

PeteTheChop

Head Coach
May 25, 2005
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Do you think when Leach is retired he will donate 100k to WSU? I don't.

No, but I think we know what he *will be doing* from his statements before Mississippi State played Texas Tech in the Liberty Bowl last year: 😀

For the last 12 years, Mike Leach has been in a legal dispute with Texas Tech after former Red Raiders tight end Adam James accused Leach and his staff of locking him in a dark room when he had a concussion.

“They still owe me for 2009, the last time they won nine games, so maybe they’ll deliver that check,” Leach said. When asked how long he’ll fight Texas Tech if the university continues in its refusal to settle, Leach could have stopped his answer after the first word: “Forever.”
 

PeteTheChop

Head Coach
May 25, 2005
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I never saw a game in Spokane.

I lived back east, so when school started say 9/20/1979/80/81/82, I got to campus probably the 13th. I never made the trek up there and I may have missed a game a season because of it. (assuming I was in the state of Washington when it was played...in most cases they already had three games under their belt when I got back to campus)

And when I got there WSU had to be at 40k to stay in the Pac 10 as it just brought in ASU and Arizona.

Maybe one of the Spokanians (?) here would know
 

wazzucougs96

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Nov 8, 2011
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Barring a dramatic turnaround in the portal season, we're heading into the offseason with perhaps the worst defense in the conference in 2023. We gave up 700 yards to UW in the Apple Cup, and face a schedule in 2023 that includes UW with Penix back, Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, Arizona, Colorado with Deion, and a revamped Wisconsin program that just raided North Carolina's potent offensive coordinator and o-line coach. Will we be favored in any of those games? Not likely.

Is 2023 the beginning of the end? Do we sputter to a 3-9 season with Dickert and Morris, hang onto them for "one more year" in 2024 and fall too far behind the rest of the programs in our league to compete? Is there another Mike Leach miracle hire out there? Maybe not.

This could be it, folks. I see major storm clouds on the horizon. It's been fun.
Piss off with this. WSU fan loser talk is a disease.
 

M-I-Coug

Hall Of Fame
Oct 13, 2002
3,342
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Mercer Island
Barring a dramatic turnaround in the portal season, we're heading into the offseason with perhaps the worst defense in the conference in 2023. We gave up 700 yards to UW in the Apple Cup, and face a schedule in 2023 that includes UW with Penix back, Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, Arizona, Colorado with Deion, and a revamped Wisconsin program that just raided North Carolina's potent offensive coordinator and o-line coach. Will we be favored in any of those games? Not likely.

Is 2023 the beginning of the end? Do we sputter to a 3-9 season with Dickert and Morris, hang onto them for "one more year" in 2024 and fall too far behind the rest of the programs in our league to compete? Is there another Mike Leach miracle hire out there? Maybe not.

This could be it, folks. I see major storm clouds on the horizon. It's been fun.
Is this the end of the line for WSU?

Sitting as a top HS recruit: It will be if you don't edit and change the post of your title. :cool:
 
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