Just ridiculous

[FnuLnu]

Well let’s have a moment of honesty here... first out the right people in the room making decisions . Sterk Moos and Floyd . If Sumlin was a former player, and that is what the school determined they needed was someone with ties to the school no doubt those three would have zero problem with Sumlin even under investigation.

And not even sure those two were the first choice but rather Jim McIllwaine. Turned down the gig because after paying the first 6 people on his staff his budget left him 45 k for three positions.

Why would WSU hire noted Seattle Sonics free agent bust Jim McIllwaine to coach football? Was Wally Walker on the committee?
Jim McElwain also wasn't a candidate - he was a just an OC in the Mountain West conference.
Floyd had limited say - he got neutralized as Missouri president when he interfered in the basketball program when Quin Snyder was coach.
Moos was a consultant who got Sumlin's name from contacting the Black Coach's Association.
Jim Walden was a employee like Moos but also an important fundraiser with a platform as a former coach and media member.
At your other school, the UW in 2007 the football program's ugly racist past kept them from firing Tyrone in 2007. It was just 4 years after the statue of an avowed white supremacist football coach (Jim Owens) was installed.
The fact Paul Saban took less money gave them an out and excuse to pass over a more qualified black man. (Or having to fire him later on with a black university president still in office).

Jim Walden was a Wyoming grad like Dick Cheney who about 7 years earlier in 2000 ran a VP search for George Bush but apparently couldn't find anybody more qualified than himself.
Wonder if Jim Walden was playing 3D chess that backfired (hoping Sterk like Bush would see a list of poor candidates like Paul Saban and ask Jim Walden, "Why not you?")
Crazy? Jim Walden was younger than Joe Biden is now. Heck, even Jackie Sherrill TODAY is younger than Joe Biden.

As for Paul Saban being a former player. He never was an assistant at WSU. Wasn't from the state of Washington. And is about the only WSU figure still in coaching and on social media who apparently didn't comment on the death of Bob Robertson (even Jason Gesser and Timm Rosenbach who left WSU under bad terms commented on twitter).

When Rolo gets fired for misgendering somebody and Beau Baldwin is hired at a cheap salary, guess who will return as an assistant?

 

[CougEd]

Why would WSU hire noted Seattle Sonics free agent bust Jim McIllwaine to coach football? Was Wally Walker on the committee?
Jim McElwain also wasn't a candidate - he was a just an OC in the Mountain West conference.
Floyd had limited say - he got neutralized as Missouri president when he interfered in the basketball program when Quin Snyder was coach.
Moos was a consultant who got Sumlin's name from contacting the Black Coach's Association.
Jim Walden was a employee like Moos but also an important fundraiser with a platform as a former coach and media member.
At your other school, the UW in 2007 the football program's ugly racist past kept them from firing Tyrone in 2007. It was just 4 years after the statue of an avowed white supremacist football coach (Jim Owens) was installed.
The fact Paul Saban took less money gave them an out and excuse to pass over a more qualified black man. (Or having to fire him later on with a black university president still in office).

Jim Walden was a Wyoming grad like Dick Cheney who about 7 years earlier in 2000 ran a VP search for George Bush but apparently couldn't find anybody more qualified than himself.
Wonder if Jim Walden was playing 3D chess that backfired (hoping Sterk like Bush would see a list of poor candidates like Paul Saban and ask Jim Walden, "Why not you?")
Crazy? Jim Walden was younger than Joe Biden is now. Heck, even Jackie Sherrill TODAY is younger than Joe Biden.

As for Paul Saban being a former player. He never was an assistant at WSU. Wasn't from the state of Washington. And is about the only WSU figure still in coaching and on social media who apparently didn't comment on the death of Bob Robertson (even Jason Gesser and Timm Rosenbach who left WSU under bad terms commented on twitter).

When Rolo gets fired for misgendering somebody and Beau Baldwin is hired at a cheap salary, guess who will return as an assistant?

Correct...brain freeze on JJim McElwain ....my apologies....he turned down the eastern job when Wulff left.

Walden was on what payroll?. Moos was in the hiring room. As was Sterk, as was Floyd.

What other school?

Again, not sure what Sumlin's skin color has to do with Paul Wulff?

 

[Coug90]

Yeah, and people have been hit and killed by lightning bolts too. That doesnt mean that people either dont go outside, or outside in lightning storms.

Yeah a young, healthy althlete can theoretically die of covid, just like some that have died of sickle cell.

The chance that a young, healthy athlete dies of Covid, is about, around, somewhat semi somewhat close to the odds of getting hit by lightning.

More Young Healthy Athletes die from drinking too much alcohol, car accidents, etc, then die from Covid.

Should we then stop them from drinking, smoking, driving cars, etc, too?

The death rate in the USA from Covid is:

About 5% to 10% to 15% to 20% of 300 Million, about 150,000 to 300,000 get, have gotten the virus.

About 67,000 of those get, got hospitalized.

About 13,000 have died. About a 3.3% Death Rate.

Now thats in General.

Amongst the Older Population, etc.

Its about a 20% Death rate.

Amongst the Young Healthy athletes etc.

Its about a .03% of 1% a Less then 1% Death Rate.

There are about 3000 colleges in the USA. And about 750 athletes at each college.

Thats about 300,000 athletes. 1% would be about 3000. .01% out of 300,000 would be about about 25 to 50 to 100 to 150 dieing.

And thats athletes in general.

So about 25 to 50 to 100 to 150 athletes in general would die out of 300,000.

If it was just Football. It would be about 4 to 7 to 13 football athletes dying from Covid, out of about 25,000 to 50,000 to 75,000 football players.

How many Football players die to Flu? probably 1 to 13.

How many Football players die to sickle Cell? Probably 1 to 13.

How many football players die to other diseases, etc, probably 1 to 13

How many Football players die to Alcohol, driving cars? A hell lot more then 1 to 13.

Since all these Football players die due to others things then Covid, if Covid were non existent, should we close down Colleges, Stop College Football, Stop College football players from drinking, smoking, driving, etc, just to save 50 to 500 football players?

No?

Then why should we stop College football to save 4 to 7 to 10 to 13 football players from Covid?

I understand each football player, person is a life, each is important.

But were talking extremely small out of big numbers here.

You cant, and shouldnt live in the what if world.

Newsflash People, whether football players, etc, will die whether from Covid, or anything, everything else, in such rediculously small percents like .01% of 1%, like the chance of getting killed, hit by a lightning bolt.

Yes when I step out the door a lightning bolt, or a anvil, etc, can fall from the sky, hit me on the head and Kill me.

Does that mean I should never set foot outside my door?

Similarly Yes a football player could tbeoretically have a .01 of 1% chance to be killed by Covid, etc.

Does that mean we should close College football down?

No.

Put things into PERSPECTIVE.

But INSLEE and others dont want Perspective.

They want FEAR, TO CONTROL.

Your last line is funny- the irony, hypocrisy, and general unawareness is palpable.

Since you’ve completely missed the point which is not uncommon...it’s not about odds of death it’s about risk and liability. I get that it’s a rare occurrence. I flat out said if he’d been playing for Clemson, the college FB season would be over, it would...and the institutions would take a hit that would not have been worth it for a few weeks of football. I want to watch football. I’ll be watching this weekend. Doesn’t mean the NCAA and the conferences aren’t playing with fire.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Your last line is funny- the irony, hypocrisy, and general unawareness is palpable.

Since you’ve completely missed the point which is not uncommon...it’s not about odds of death it’s about risk and liability. I get that it’s a rare occurrence. I flat out said if he’d been playing for Clemson, the college FB season would be over, it would...and the institutions would take a hit that would not have been worth it for a few weeks of football. I want to watch football. I’ll be watching this weekend. Doesn’t mean the NCAA and the conferences aren’t playing with fire.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. My personal hunch is that someone will try to sue a school and won't be successful or they'll settle out of court, but there won't be sweeping lawsuits from families of kids who got sick and then couldn't play pro ball; too hard to prove negligence and also that the kid didn't already have pre-existing condition(s). Not only that, but these kids want to play. Outside of the small cabal of P12 players that had their hands out, most of the other players were disappointed that the season was cancelled.

If I'm a school, I give the NCAA the middle finger and still have kids sign waivers. They (the NCAA) can't wave their hand and ban waivers but then give no guidance or leadership on how to manage risk on campuses. I mean, they did, but screw that. The organization is a joke anyway.

 

[95coug]

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. My personal hunch is that someone will try to sue a school and won't be successful or they'll settle out of court, but there won't be sweeping lawsuits from families of kids who got sick and then couldn't play pro ball; too hard to prove negligence and also that the kid didn't already have pre-existing condition(s). Not only that, but these kids want to play. Outside of the small cabal of P12 players that had their hands out, most of the other players were disappointed that the season was cancelled.

If I'm a school, I give the NCAA the middle finger and still have kids sign waivers. They (the NCAA) can't wave their hand and ban waivers but then give no guidance or leadership on how to manage risk on campuses. I mean, they did, but screw that. The organization is a joke anyway.

Waivers are meaningless in the face of negligence, which would be the immediate claim of any lawsuit. And, any university who proceeds against the advice of health authorities probably will not be covered by their insurer, so any judgements or losses would be out of pocket. When they’re already reeling financially due to lost revenue and refunds issued, campuses aren’t going to risk an open-ended financial hit. And the state schools aren’t really making their own decisions, they have to get permission. That’s tough in Washington and oregon, where they have to get permission from a governor who doesn’t understand science.

 

[dgibbons]

Waivers are meaningless in the face of negligence, which would be the immediate claim of any lawsuit. And, any university who proceeds against the advice of health authorities probably will not be covered by their insurer, so any judgements or losses would be out of pocket. When they’re already reeling financially due to lost revenue and refunds issued, campuses aren’t going to risk an open-ended financial hit. And the state schools aren’t really making their own decisions, they have to get permission. That’s tough in Washington and oregon, where they have to get permission from a governor who doesn’t understand science.

Your legal analysis needs work.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Waivers are meaningless in the face of negligence, which would be the immediate claim of any lawsuit. And, any university who proceeds against the advice of health authorities probably will not be covered by their insurer, so any judgements or losses would be out of pocket. When they’re already reeling financially due to lost revenue and refunds issued, campuses aren’t going to risk an open-ended financial hit. And the state schools aren’t really making their own decisions, they have to get permission. That’s tough in Washington and oregon, where they have to get permission from a governor who doesn’t understand science.

These are literally unprecedented times. You should look research the legal terms "duty" and "negligence" and get back to me. Saying someone should have known how to keep a kid safe from an unknown virus while they voluntarily played football is going to be tough. You have to prove that the school knew the right thing to do and then purposely didn't do it. Do you really think that is what is happening in locker rooms right now? I have to mask up, have my temp taken, do a covid survey, and sanitize before I visit most of my customers. The Rams and Chargers have similar protocols. Everything that can be done is being done. And if it isn't - as in someone is actually negligent - then they should have to suffer the consequences.

Also, in case you missed it, Brown gave her loyal subjects permission to play football. Not sure about his royal highness Inslee.

 

[dgibbons]

These are literally unprecedented times. You should look research the legal terms "duty" and "negligence" and get back to me. Saying someone should have known how to keep a kid safe from an unknown virus while they voluntarily played football is going to be tough. You have to prove that the school knew the right thing to do and then purposely didn't do it. Do you really think that is what is happening in locker rooms right now? I have to mask up, have my temp taken, do a covid survey, and sanitize before I visit most of my customers. The Rams and Chargers have similar protocols. Everything that can be done is being done. And if it isn't - as in someone is actually negligent - then they should have to suffer the consequences.

Also, in case you missed it, Brown gave her loyal subjects permission to play football. Not sure about his royal highness Inslee.

Assumption of risk. Just like they assume the risk of concussions, broken bones, torn ligaments, etc. Everyone can opt out.

 

[95coug]

These are literally unprecedented times. You should look research the legal terms "duty" and "negligence" and get back to me. Saying someone should have known how to keep a kid safe from an unknown virus while they voluntarily played football is going to be tough. You have to prove that the school knew the right thing to do and then purposely didn't do it. Do you really think that is what is happening in locker rooms right now? I have to mask up, have my temp taken, do a covid survey, and sanitize before I visit most of my customers. The Rams and Chargers have similar protocols. Everything that can be done is being done. And if it isn't - as in someone is actually negligent - then they should have to suffer the consequences.

Also, in case you missed it, Brown gave her loyal subjects permission to play football. Not sure about his royal highness Inslee.

You're forgetting that we live in a nanny state. People can't be expected to protect themselves, we have to do it for them. The claim would be that yes, we made efforts to protect them, but that they weren't enough. We couldn't adequately mitigate the risk, so we just shouldn't have played. Then factor in the PR battle that we lose immediately, where we put athletic revenue ahead of played safety, and took advantage of unpaid athletes (the obvious difference between us and the NFL).
I think the university and the state would try hard to keep such a case from seeing a courtroom...where Even a win is a loss. Maybe we don't pay out cash, but we lose image and reputation, which affects sponsorship and partnerships beyond football. Either way, the hit would exceed the $30M we lose by not playing.

if the state of an insurance carrier will absorb such a loss, the calculus changes. But if the university is on the hook, the best move is not to play.

 

[Coug90]

Assumption of risk. Just like they assume the risk of concussions, broken bones, torn ligaments, etc. Everyone can opt out.

Wave of concussion lawsuits to test NCAA's liability

The NCAA is facing more than 300 lawsuits from former college football players who claim their concussions were mistreated, leading to medical issues spanning from headaches to depression and in some cases early onset Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease.

apnews.com

not new but concussions probably wasn’t the best example to include here. NFL has faced and settled lawsuits too. Why? Because of allegations they weren’t handled correctly and not enough was known about long term effects. IMO same thing as Covid. If an abnormal percentage of LSUs infected players end up with heart or lung conditions 10-20 years from now there will be lawsuits and settlements. With how litigious we are as a society, if one guy has an issue that could be completely unrelated, his family may sue. It’s a risk and the risk doesn’t necessarily end when there’s a vaccine and no players have died.

 

[kougkurt]

Wave of concussion lawsuits to test NCAA's liability

The NCAA is facing more than 300 lawsuits from former college football players who claim their concussions were mistreated, leading to medical issues spanning from headaches to depression and in some cases early onset Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease.

apnews.com

not new but concussions probably wasn’t the best example to include here. NFL has faced and settled lawsuits too. Why? Because of allegations they weren’t handled correctly and not enough was known about long term effects. IMO same thing as Covid. If an abnormal percentage of LSUs infected players end up with heart or lung conditions 10-20 years from now there will be lawsuits and settlements. With how litigious we are as a society, if one guy has an issue that could be completely unrelated, his family may sue. It’s a risk and the risk doesn’t necessarily end when there’s a vaccine and no players have died.

I don’t know. Do you really think if there was a fear of long term effects from Covid, Russell Wilson and Pat Mahomes would risk their future health. Guys like this are in the prime of their lives with no need to make another dime.
why not live out the rest of your life with your family on your mega yacht.

 

[Coug90]

I don’t know. Do you really think if there was a fear of long term effects from Covid, Russell Wilson and Pat Mahomes would risk their future health. Guys like this are in the prime of their lives with no need to make another dime.
why not live out the rest of your life with your family on your mega yacht.

Valid point. However they risk their future health every time they step out there knowing now that there are long term effects from concussions, which can happen on any play. The risk ain’t worth it for some guys...Luke Keukly, just like its not worth it for the guys who opted out of playing this season. Just cuz some guys choose reward over risk it doesn’t make the risk not real.

 

[kougkurt]

Valid point. However they risk their future health every time they step out there knowing now that there are long term effects from concussions, which can happen on any play. The risk ain’t worth it for some guys...Luke Keukly, just like its not worth it for the guys who opted out of playing this season. Just cuz some guys choose reward over risk it doesn’t make the risk not real.

Fair enough. But what if I change the names to Manny Machado and Mike Trout.

 

[dgibbons]

Wave of concussion lawsuits to test NCAA's liability

The NCAA is facing more than 300 lawsuits from former college football players who claim their concussions were mistreated, leading to medical issues spanning from headaches to depression and in some cases early onset Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease.

apnews.com

not new but concussions probably wasn’t the best example to include here. NFL has faced and settled lawsuits too. Why? Because of allegations they weren’t handled correctly and not enough was known about long term effects. IMO same thing as Covid. If an abnormal percentage of LSUs infected players end up with heart or lung conditions 10-20 years from now there will be lawsuits and settlements. With how litigious we are as a society, if one guy has an issue that could be completely unrelated, his family may sue. It’s a risk and the risk doesn’t necessarily end when there’s a vaccine and no players have died.

Concussions is the perfect example. Everyone currently playing is assuming the risk. The risk of concussions and long-term effects is widely known and highly publicized. And again, for your benefit, everyone can opt out. As previously stated, your legal analysis needs work.

 

[Coug90]

Concussions is the perfect example. Everyone currently playing is assuming the risk. The risk of concussions and long-term effects is widely known and highly publicized. And again, for your benefit, everyone can opt out. As previously stated, your legal analysis needs work.

Players have already sued and settled for concussions. Nice try. Your flippancy needs work.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Players have already sued and settled for concussions. Nice try. Your flippancy needs work.

The NFL was shown to have known the danger and purposely not inform the players or take precautions.

Apples and oranges.

 

[dgibbons]

Players have already sued and settled for concussions. Nice try. Your flippancy needs work.

Can you read? Or do you choose not to?

 

[dgibbons]

The NFL was shown to have known the danger and purposely not inform the players or take precautions.

Apples and oranges.

And anyone currently playing is assuming the risk.

 

[kougkurt]

And anyone currently playing is assuming the risk.

In the absence of negligence, yes.

 

[CougPatrol]

I’m no legal expert by any means, but the fact that players have been afforded the choice to opt out of playing this season essentially *is* a liability waiver.

 

[95coug]

I’m no legal expert by any means, but the fact that players have been afforded the choice to opt out of playing this season essentially *is* a liability waiver.

It’s a defense, but not necessarily a successful one.

I see this as very similar to workplace injuries. When an employee is injured, It’s almost impossible for an employer to show that they satisfied their duty to protect. So the employee gets a settlement - doesn’t matter if they’ve been trained and provided protections, the fact that they got hurt is typically taken as proof that the employer’s efforts were inadequate.

This would be a similar scenario, and only requires a 51% probability that an infection came from the activities and environment provided by the university.

 

[Coug90]

I’m no legal expert by any means, but the fact that players have been afforded the choice to opt out of playing this season essentially *is* a liability waiver.

I’m no legal expert either, but the fact that Notre Dame is canceling their game this weekend and the NFL is fining coaches $100K+ for slipping their masks shows their belief that any “waiver” is not bulletproof from potential liability. I think the NFL is in a lot better shape here simply because their players are under contracts that can include amendments (which likely have language reviewed and approved by the players union, which doesn’t exist in the NCAA).

 

[Coug90]

Can you read? Or do you choose not to?

The DGibbons triple-down! What an honor!

 

[dgibbons]

The DGibbons triple-down! What an honor!

So you choose not to.

 

[dgibbons]

I’m no legal expert either, but the fact that Notre Dame is canceling their game this weekend and the NFL is fining coaches $100K+ for slipping their masks shows their belief that any “waiver” is not bulletproof from potential liability. I think the NFL is in a lot better shape here simply because their players are under contracts that can include amendments (which likely have language reviewed and approved by the players union, which doesn’t exist in the NCAA).

Your legal analysis still needs work.