That a player had an injury in high school? Who hasn't? Max Borghi had major knee surgery in high school.
Kershaw gone.
- Thread starter 79COUG
- Start date
Rolo inherited a way better situation from Leach then Smith from Kent, and gets a C-,D+, in recruiting the 1st season, and a D, 1st season, because of Covid.
Smith inherits Dumpster fire from Kent, gets a B+, A- in recruiting 1st season, and .500 1st season(About a B-)
Smith who is a better coach then Rolo, didnt let Covid stop him, even tho he inherited a WAY worse situation then Rolo did. And he didnt let Kent't mess stop him, and he didnt use either Covid or Kent as a excuse.
And his second season(Smith's COVID Season: A+ Recruiting, and a B season(Again not letting, using Covid, Kent, as excuse)
So because Smith did way better with a Way Worse situation the Rolo, Excusing Rolo because of Covid is a STRETCH.
Mik.... hoops is easier to evaluate A- talent . You can watch a hoops player for two minutes and determine if they are talented enough to play for your team . They stand out like a sore thumb . Football with covid is a tougher gig .
But if the argument is who has done a better job changing the fortunes of the programs no question it is smith .
Railing on Rolovich right now is a bigger stretch. WSU went 1-3 last year against Oregon State, Oregon, USC and Utah.
In 2019, Leach-led WSU went 1-3 against Oregon State, Oregon, UCLA and Utah. In 2019, we went 6-1 against teams with losing records and 0-6 against teams with winning records. All bullsh!t aside, the team was falling apart in Leach's final season.
Was it a one year thing or not? We'll never know because Leach ran off to Mississippi State, but my guess is that it wasn't going to be good in 2020 even with Leach. You aren't wrong to say that Smith was left with a more difficult situation than Rolovich....but it also ignores the fact that one or two players can make a dramatic difference on the basketball court far more easily than a football field. John Elway was one of the best QB's in history but never played in a bowl game. Also, Kent was able to recruit some talent.....he just couldn't get them to play cohesively and consistently. Under Kent, it was routine to see us play pretty well for 30 minutes of a 40 minute basketball game.
We'll know a lot more about Rolovich after he's had four seasons as coach. Leach sucked donkey balls in his third year despite having gone to a bowl game in year two, but in year four, he finally had a team that was in the right place mentally and we went on to have the best four year run in school history. Anyone arguing that Rolovich is doomed to struggle after watching the crapfest that Leach ran in 2012 and 2014 is telling us that their opinion isn't worth much. Don't be that guy. Show some patience and see what happens. It might end up sucking, but acting like a know-it-all while going off on Rolovich right now is silly.
The defense was going downhill. The offense was outstanding. The team was not was not falling apart.
Even I gave Ernie Kent the benefit of the doubt in his first couple of years despite the fact that I was dead set against him getting hired. Rolovich deserves at least as much before passing ultimate judgment. Looking beyond last year's record of 1-3, the only true blowout was vs. USC (and that was really a one-quarter meltdown). Otherwise, we hung with UO (led at halftime and still within reach until the end of the game), dominated Utah for a half before falling apart, and beat OSU in Corvallis. Reasons to be concerned or skeptical of Rolovich? You bet. But let's give him more time. Comparing a football coach to a basketball coach doesn't work for me (BTW, I'm thrilled with the job Kyle Smith is doing).
Glad Cougar
That 2019 was absolutely falling apart. Our vaunted offense couldn't hold a four touchdown lead against UCLA (was it six turnovers?) and got shutdown by an MWC team in the bowl game. You are right that the fault lies mainly with the defense but part of a head coach's job is to coach the whole damned team.....not just the offense.
2019 was the first year since 2014 where we didn't create more breaks than we missed and we were actually pretty darned close to 9-3....but that team was falling apart mentally and if anything, it showed how fragile a winning season will always be for a program like WSU.
When I look at 2019, it reminds me way too much of 2007. The offense was better in 2019, but we had a team that had lost its identity defensively and was getting progressively worse over time. Rolovich is a much, much better coach than Wulff and the situation today isn't the exact same as back then, but Leach did not leave Rolovich with a loaded team that was ready to compete for the Pac-12 championship every year. To suggest otherwise is ignoring the recruiting classes of the past five years and the results of 2019. Leach was brilliant enough in his crazy way to keep 2019 from falling apart completely but most of that was because we were fortunate to have a trash schedule to compete against and we still didn't look good.
The offense scored 63 points against UCLA WITH six turnovers, and you think that's bad. Should you see a physician?
In ‘19 I was at ASU in the damn 95° heat at high noon & our offense was clicking all game vs. a very good Sun Devil team with no answer for the Air Raid. Our defense couldn’t get off the damn field & gave up several poor tackling big plays which led to our defeat in the last seconds.
How many points would they have needed if they didn’t turn the ball over six times and allow kick off and punt returns for tds
Y'all seem to forget the part where I said that the head coach is responsible for the defense too. Overall, our offense was fine in 2019 but it's a team sport.
And I don't care how many yards we gained or how many touchdowns we scored....our offense gave up six frickin' turnovers against UCLA. That sucks.
And again, we faced an absolute trash schedule in 2019. Seven opponents with losing records and another three opponents with 5 losses each. Oregon and Utah were the only really good teams we faced that year. Air Force lost by double digits to the only two good teams on their schedule and they ground us to a pulp.
Leach did not leave Rolovich with a program that was ready to compete at a high level. And again, I don't care that we got a bunch of yards against a trash schedule....our team was not good in 2019.
And I don't care how many yards we gained or how many touchdowns we scored....our offense gave up six frickin' turnovers against UCLA. That sucks.
And again, we faced an absolute trash schedule in 2019. Seven opponents with losing records and another three opponents with 5 losses each. Oregon and Utah were the only really good teams we faced that year. Air Force lost by double digits to the only two good teams on their schedule and they ground us to a pulp.
Leach did not leave Rolovich with a program that was ready to compete at a high level. And again, I don't care that we got a bunch of yards against a trash schedule....our team was not good in 2019.
At least 68.
Ye of little intellect does not understand that even giving away SIX possessions, the offense scored 63 points.
Only place I would reevaluate and ease my worries is there are two very good players on the dline we didn’t see in 2019. There are better building blocks there than I thought . And rolo upgraded the secondary and actually has thre corners who can play.
Last edited:
Ye of other intellect keep forgetting that Leach is the head coach and responsible for the defense that gave up 67 points. What I'm hearing is that we shouldn't have let Doba go in 2007 since it was really the defense that was the main problem. We would have gone to a bowl game if we hadn't given up 40+ points five times that year. Also, I don't see you making excuses for our trash defense during the Wulff era.
And how many did they give up without defense even stepping on the field . And guess what , at end of the game when last possession could win , Gordon fumbled
2007 was the year Doba built to and still fell short of a bowl. 2008 was going to be a rough year regardless of who took over. We were too weak on both lines. 2019 was a step back, but it was still a pretty good season by WSU standards. The defense collapsed, but a new co-ordinator was on the way and would have improved in short order. Maybe not into the conference title range, but enough to be a 7-8 win team for the foreseeable future. Given our history, that's not a bad place to be.
There is a school of thought saying Rolo needs some time before he gets his guys in place. Defensively, I'll agree. Though they should (and have) shown immediate improvement. But offensively? There is no excuse for not finishing in the top 4 of the P12 in total offense and scoring. Too much talent. We might not be ready to be the top scoring offense in conference, but we should be pretty good. Failure to do that will fall on coaching.
Incorrect. The confluence of some poor assistant hires and a dip in the talent on the defensive side were the cause of going from 11 wins in 2018 to 6 in 2019. At least two new defensive assistants were going to be incoming for 2020 had Leach stayed.
The offense was trash during the Wulff era too. So were the special teams. But Wulff wasn't that bad, right?
I agree that we should finish with a highly ranked offense. The QB position is a big question mark and our wide receiver depth isn't what it could have been.....but Borghi is one of the best running backs we've ever had and we've got a decent OL and enough WR's to play ball. If we don't find a way to average over 30 points per game.....it will say a lot of bad things about the program and Rolovich.
Nobody knows how 2020 would have been if Leach had stayed because he didn't. BTW, Wulff sucked and that was my point.
Agree with a lot of what your saying, EXCEPT, BUT the part you say Leach didnt leave much.
FALSE.
LEACH Left a LOT.
On Offense he left 4 star 3 year QB Cooper, 4 Star QB JDL, and a HIGH END 3 star QB, that transfered to Arizona, OSTENSIBLY to be the STARTER at Arizona.
Leach, Price, Smith(If he was a FB coach, not a bball coach, would have done just fine with that QB Corp.
WR: Tay Martin, Jamire Calvin, Travell Harris, Calvin Jackson, Renard Bell, Brandon Gray, Hobert, Woods, even after the seniors departed, went to the NFL, etc, that was, is still one of the best WR Corps. Not 5th in Nation good, like last year, but still 2nd Best in Pac 12, and still a top 25 WR Corp. And still GOOD, DEEP. Price, Leach, Smith, would work wonders with that, kept that together. Rolo doesnt keep the WR corp together.
RB: BORGHI NFL BACK, DEON MC INTOSH. Again Leach, Price, etc, would have gone to town on that.
A NFL QUALITY O LINE. Again Leach Price would done great with that.
Now defense, maybe a different story. But the Defense had AWESOME PLAYMAKERS from the 2018 defense that SEEMED to SUCK during 2019 season that were on the team during the 2019, and were still ON the team for the 2020 season. Would they have done a awesome job for Leach, Price, etc. I think so, as a lot of DC'S would be better then Leach's 2019 CRAP DC, that took the AWESOME PLAYMAKERS from 2018, that would have played for Rolo in 2020(if they had not left, transfered, after, when Rolo, Dickert became WSU coaches), and turned them into SHIT, durimg the 2019 season.
So were those defensive players CRAP that Leach left, or were they actually AWESOME players that would, would have repeated their awesome 2018 performance if they had had BETTER COACHING then the 2019 CRAP COACHING.
Leach left enough on both offense, Defense, that if Leach, Price, Erickson, were a new coach on the Job, they would have won 5,6,7,8 wins that first year with what Leach Left behind for Rolo, provided that a full 12 game season. If they had the same shortened season, they still would have won 3,4,5,6 wins, and would have been very close, competitive in the losses.
And before you say: If thats true what your saying, Mike, then why did Leach go 3-9 1st year and 6-6 in 2019?: Thats because Leach took over a DUMPSTER FIRE FROM WULF, and in 2019 HIRED, THEN FIRED A PAUL WULF level DC.
Leach left Rolo a lot, and Leach, Price, Erickson, Smith, etc, would have done just fine with what Leach left Rolo.
STOP THE REVISIONIST HISTORY THANKS.
Mik... first things first... stars are for what they did in high school or what media types think their potential is . If Cooper was as good as you think he would have been a starter . Leach clearly had his questions about him .
the crappy dc was the same dc in 2018 was he not ? The talent drain was from the lack of playmakers that were recruited . We have struggled at corner for years , even the good years .
The DC that was at WSU BEFORE 2018, was responsible for most of the Credit for 2018's defense. All the 2019's DC did was be smart enough to not fix what wasnt broken in 2018, and keep the status quo, ride what worked, kept doing what the past DC did. He could have instead chosen to be a idiot, done it his way, and 2018's defense would have been not as good, and there would have been 1,2,3 less wins.
Players like Willie Taylor, etc, dont go from ALL WORLD AWESOME in 2018 to TERRIBLY HORRIBLY BAD IN 2019, without it being the fault of the 2019 DC, and not the fault of the Previous DC that recruited them. If the Previous 2017 DC had stayed at WSU, then 2018 would still have been just as good. Players like Willie would still have been ALL WORLD AWESOME in 2018. And 2019 players like Willie Would have continued their 2018 ALL WORLD AWESOMENESS INTO 2019, AND 2019 WOULD have LIKELY WON 7,8,9 wins.
But be that as it is, Leach gets the credit for hiring the Bad DC, just as Leach gets credit for either getting on the DC's AZZ, sitting down and talking with him, TURNING UP THE PRESSURE, HEAT, ON TO THE DC, or mentioning the word FIRING to him, thus causing the DC to quit mid seaaon. Also its obvious that if the DC hadnt quit midseaaon in 2019, that Leach was going to Fire his AZZ. Leach gets credit for that, as a lot of coaches would have kept the bad DC longer, and not corrected their bad DC hire SOONER.
And had Leach stayed, He likely would have hired a good DC, and won about 6 to 9 games in 2020, or 4,5,6 games, wins in a Covid Shortened Season, instead of only getting 1,2,3 games like Rolo.
Rolo is TBD. But this is not Leach's fault. Leach left PLENTY for Rolo.
Devard Darling was looking for somewhere to land after his brother died at FSU. Pretty sure he liked that WSU threw the ball, but being far from that tragedy probably helped our cause...he brother died during team drills.
If I remember the story correctly (there was a feature in one magazine or another) WSU was the only P-5 school that would clear him to play. Most were afraid he’d die on the field too, and wouldn’t even give him a physical.
A lot of people go through life afraid of dying. A lot of people are afraid of allowing others to live their lives, too.
And even more relevant in this case, a lot of organizations are afraid of getting sued.
That's what signed waivers are for.
Assumption of risk. Same as when you buy a ticket to a ski resort or any number of sh*t where people might, even in the remotest of statistical likelihoods, be injured or die.
Like, say, at a stadium full of people or some such thing....
BTW, how 'bout them Knicks and their 15,000 fans in an indoor arena yesterday? Totally weird.
You can only assume a risk in the absence of negligence.
Waivers do act as a deterrent though.
Yeah, a congenital issue was partly to blame for his brothers death, and since they were twins many got scared off.
Sickle cell if I remember correctly. Darling tested several times and was fine. But, schools were still afraid.
Similar threads
