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Mora out at UCLA

So here are the coaches that have bit the dust (fired/resigned) Since we hired Leach.


Lane Kiffin (USC)
Steve Sarkisian (USC)
Jeff Tedford (Cal)
Sonny Dykes (Cal)
Jim Mora (UCLA)
Mark Helfrich (Oregon)
Gary Andersen (Oregon State)
Jon Embree (Colorado)

Six Programs in total - 8 different coaches

Those left to be chopped down and given the axe

Rich Rod (Arizona)
Todd Graham (ASU)
McIntyre (Colorado)
Petersen (UW)
Helton (USC)
Shaw (Stanford)
Whittingham (Utah)

Of the coaching Class when Leach was hired.

Only

Todd Graham
Rich Rod
Shaw
Whittingham

Remain...

Cheacking Coach's hot seat

Graham is #6 (if he loses to Arizona he may be done)
Mora was #10 on the list and he was done in

Rich Rod and Shaw more than likely are safe, Rich Rod has a star future player and a 7 win season now, and Shaw pretty much strung together yet another solid season at Stanford.

Whittingham, highly doubtful he goes anywhere last year he won 9 games, and timeout sillyness aside he's still 1 game from a bowl game.

Graham is the one who may get chopped next. We will find out next weekend.
 
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I still laugh when I think of the start that some of those coaches had compared to the understandable start that Leach had here at WSU. There were more than a few Cougar fans that thought that Leach was overrated and WSU got the short end of the stick.
 
I still laugh when I think of the start that some of those coaches had compared to the understandable start that Leach had here at WSU. There were more than a few Cougar fans that thought that Leach was overrated and WSU got the short end of the stick.

Any of them that thought just didn't understand how college football programs work.

College football programs are cyclical hires for the most part.

A coach that enters a program has has a multitude of issues early on.

1. What was he actually handed. Did he have good players that fit what he wants to do or not?

2. Can he recruit players that fit what he wants to do.

The early success of some of the coaches vs that of Leach comes down to 1 specific thing.

They were handed great talent to begin with and Leach was not.
Now Leach had to also cycle through assistants rapidly getting ones who could work with what he wanted to do as well.
Of Leach's original staff he has Just Mastro McGuire / . Only 2 assistants are with him in his sixth year.

Some he had to let go like: Russell, Breske, and Volero
Some left for upgrade jobs: Choate, Morris, Simmons, Harell, Shepherd, Salavae

Getting the right mix of upgrades especially on defense.

Grinch > Breske
Wilson > Choate (only 1 year so small sample size)
Manning > Volero
Phelps > Salavae

Everything has improved. Scheme, DB play, LB play, DL play. the result is a much better defense with players that fit the aggressive turnover style Leach has wanted.

On the WR side we have

Nichol - Leach always finds guys that know his system and Nichol is an ole timer with Leach
Sage - Guy actually knew Grinch and was from Toledo (who is one of the rare places that has used an Inside / Outside receiver coaching setup)


While some coaches come in with good assistants and have the talent to start hot, you quickly can tell how they run a program after those players they inherited leave the program.

With Leach it's been an upwards trajectory.

With the others a down trajectory.

Which illustrates those coaches are missing 1 or both key fundamentals. You must be able to replace players, and you must be able to replace assistants. If you can't do that you are headed to garbageville.

Most fans don't understand how college football actually works in the context of program mechanics. They see someone start hot and are like WOW AMAZING COACH BEST THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED. And then are shocked when things go south and deteriorate.

Others see the 1st couple seasons and are like WHAT TERRIBLE COACH IS THIS?!? NO IMPROVEMENT?!?! WE BAD?!!? STILL BAD?!?!



 
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I still laugh when I think of the start that some of those coaches had compared to the understandable start that Leach had here at WSU. There were more than a few Cougar fans that thought that Leach was overrated and WSU got the short end of the stick.
I read many posts stating that we had made the wrong hire because the other new hires were having better results early on. much of this stemmed from the denial of many fans that wulff was a poor recruiter and the fantasy that he left the cupboard relatively full.
 
Yeah I didn't actually post much here until I saw people acting completely stupid not understanding what actually was going on. Then I was like "all right time to educate the fan base". I only did it so they cna learn and not end up like others out there acting foolish when we had made a steal of a hire

It really will be interesting to see which of Graham / Rich Rod lasts the longest, I'm pretty sure Graham will go down first because rich rod has the star player to ride now for the next couple of years.

We'll see how this coaching carousel seasons goes, but I expect quite a bit of shuffling around the Pac-12. We have 2 vacancies right now (Oregon State / UCLA) the assistant shuffle can be much more turbulent than the HC one so, I expect there to be a lot of maneuvering going on.
 
I read many posts stating that we had made the wrong hire because the other new hires were having better results early on. much of this stemmed from the denial of many fans that wulff was a poor recruiter and the fantasy that he left the cupboard relatively full.

I still recall sponge’s prophetic words....
 
I read many posts stating that we had made the wrong hire because the other new hires were having better results early on. much of this stemmed from the denial of many fans that wulff was a poor recruiter and the fantasy that he left the cupboard relatively full.

Many posts by the same 2-3 posters. Everyone I know did cartwheels when we hired Leach.
 
Speaking of the coaching carousel, will Jon Gruden ever actually take a job? As the QB tape guy and commentator, he's become regarded as Christ, as if bringing him on board is a guaranteed crystal football within 12 months. If you're JG, you've got to weigh your cozy little situation currently with potentially ending up on a hot seat and losing your unicorn status in a few years.
 
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Many posts by the same 2-3 posters. Everyone I know did cartwheels when we hired Leach.

It's worth noting that it wasn't just on here that a lot of Cougar fans (mainly old people, Walden lovers, those more concerned with getting good parking spots than seeing the team win, etc.) were trashing Leach and not only expressing dissatisfaction with him, but saying WSU got played, Leach had lost it and was just trying to get a big salary for a few years before flaming out, all the other schools who hired coaches in that 2012 class (UCLA, Arizona, ASU) did well with their hires while Moos struck out, etc.

Remember all that crap from Bud Withers, Blanchette, and all WSU media to a certain extent, really, not to mention all of the Seattle-based media (Art Thiel, all the jokers at the Times like Calkins)? It's amazing how things have turned around. Not only has Leach now outperformed all those coaches who were hired with him, starting from a much worse base, but other than Khalil Tate saving RichRod's job, all three of those guys likely were going to be out on their asses following this season, with it being somewhat surprising they weren't canned last year.
 
Speaking of the coaching carousel, will Jon Gruden ever actually take a job? As the QB tape guy and commentator, he's become regarded as Christ, as if bringing him on board is a guaranteed crystal football within 12 months. If you're JG, you've got to weigh your cozy little situation currently with potentially ending up on a hot seat and losing your unicorn status in a few years.

He has to weigh if he'll even be with ESPN when their next round of layoffs happen (apparently soon). If he's not, then why leave the cozy job for insane expectations...? Unless his fire is back and he wants in 100%.
 
Many posts by the same 2-3 posters. Everyone I know did cartwheels when we hired Leach.
Who wasn't excited when Leach was hired? The truth is when we lost to PSU more than a few posters were thinking Leach wasn't going to get it done. The question now becomes how much longer do we get his exceptional coaching.
 
Many posts by the same 2-3 posters. Everyone I know did cartwheels when we hired Leach.

Well, of course his post was likely referencing the reaction after the 3rd season, not directly after the hire.

Yea, I was doing cartwheels when he was first hired, but I gotta admit, I started wondering how WSU was going to get out of the contract after the PSU loss.
 
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He has to weigh if he'll even be with ESPN when their next round of layoffs happen (apparently soon). If he's not, then why leave the cozy job for insane expectations...? Unless his fire is back and he wants in 100%.

Any idea what he's getting paid at ESPN? Can't imagine it's that much compared to what he'd make coaching again at a place like UCLA. Maybe $200k/year if that? I'd sure rather make $5m a year coaching. Frankly, if I was him I'd be thankful I still had such goodwill left from Oregon, and had a big-market team seeming to make a big push for me, despite a couple of NFL stints most aptly characterized as failures.
 
I still recall sponge’s prophetic words....
He was wrong. And would admit so. Matter of fact he has said soon after it was after a bad loss and a couple of cocktails. What is interesting is remember the posters who were going nuts after the loss to PSU.
 
So here are the coaches that have bit the dust (fired/resigned) Since we hired Leach.


Lane Kiffin (USC)
Steve Sarkisian (USC)
Jeff Tedford (Cal)
Sonny Dykes (Cal)
Jim Mora (UCLA)
Mark Helfrich (Oregon)
Gary Andersen (Oregon State)
Jon Embree (Colorado)

Six Programs in total - 8 different coaches

Those left to be chopped down and given the axe

Rich Rod (Arizona)
Todd Graham (ASU)
McIntyre (Colorado)
Petersen (UW)
Helton (USC)
Shaw (Stanford)
Whittingham (Utah)

Of the coaching Class when Leach was hired.

Only

Todd Graham
Rich Rod
Shaw
Whittingham

Remain...

Cheacking Coach's hot seat

Graham is #6 (if he loses to Arizona he may be done)
Mora was #10 on the list and he was done in

Rich Rod and Shaw more than likely are safe, Rich Rod has a star future player and a 7 win season now, and Shaw pretty much strung together yet another solid season at Stanford.

Whittingham, highly doubtful he goes anywhere last year he won 9 games, and timeout sillyness aside he's still 1 game from a bowl game.

Graham is the one who may get chopped next. We will find out next weekend.

You can actually put Sark on that list twice. He was still at UW in Leach's first year.
 
Well, of course his post was likely referencing the reaction after the 3rd season, not directly after the hire.

Yea, I was doing cartwheels when he was first hired, but I gotta admit, I started wondering how WSU was going to get out of the contract after the PSU loss.


According to Jim Miller, who's dialed in - he's making big dollars.

I've included an additional link from Awful Announcing - they're dialed in to this type of stuff as well.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/09/hig...eport-monday-night-football-jon-gruden-salary

http://awfulannouncing.com/2016/jon-gruden-might-make-more-money-by-not-returning-to-coaching.html
 
It's worth noting that it wasn't just on here that a lot of Cougar fans (mainly old people, Walden lovers, those more concerned with getting good parking spots than seeing the team win, etc.) were trashing Leach and not only expressing dissatisfaction with him, but saying WSU got played, Leach had lost it and was just trying to get a big salary for a few years before flaming out, all the other schools who hired coaches in that 2012 class (UCLA, Arizona, ASU) did well with their hires while Moos struck out, etc.

Remember all that crap from Bud Withers, Blanchette, and all WSU media to a certain extent, really, not to mention all of the Seattle-based media (Art Thiel, all the jokers at the Times like Calkins)? It's amazing how things have turned around. Not only has Leach now outperformed all those coaches who were hired with him, starting from a much worse base, but other than Khalil Tate saving RichRod's job, all three of those guys likely were going to be out on their asses following this season, with it being somewhat surprising they weren't canned last year.

Ed Cunningham was being quoted for goodness' sake.
 
He was wrong. And would admit so. Matter of fact he has said soon after it was after a bad loss and a couple of cocktails. What is interesting is remember the posters who were going nuts after the loss to PSU.

And what about those that were continually quoting Ed Cunningham?
 
And what about those that were continually quoting Ed Cunningham?

A quote from Ed Cunningham after the Leach hire :

“I think Mike Leach’s time as a head coach is over, and I think Washington State really stretched on this hire.”

Does that guy ever wake up and feel like an idiot or does he even have enough brain matter to know that he is one ??
 
And what about those that were continually quoting Ed Cunningham?
What about those people. Are you referring to me? Talk to Biggs. We talked about hiring Leach as early as 2010. And he would tell you we both thought it would be a good hire.

In terms of Cunningham he said Rich Rod was the better hire and talked about Leach's late night lifestyle. Did we know if that meant Leach was drinking or did other things late at night and thus came in at non traditional hours. My guess is Cunningham insinuated Mike was drinking too much.

But in terms of hiring Leach I was all for it two years earlier and two years into the Wulff tenure. I just never thought they had the money.
 
According to Jim Miller, who's dialed in - he's making big dollars.

I've included an additional link from Awful Announcing - they're dialed in to this type of stuff as well.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/09/hig...eport-monday-night-football-jon-gruden-salary

http://awfulannouncing.com/2016/jon-gruden-might-make-more-money-by-not-returning-to-coaching.html

Wow, those guys make a lot more money than I thought they did. I think Gruden might be somewhat of a special case -- his reputation seems to have grown as an on-air personality well beyond what it was when he was a coach -- and the ESPN business model wasn't failing as clearly back in 2016, but hell, even if Kelly makes 1/4 of what Gruden does, that's more than I thought, honestly, and I would think they'd have to pay more to someone like Kelly who is a legitimate candidate to return to the coaching ranks than some of the old ex-coach types they have on who aren't realistic candidates for that.

(Speaking of which, if you're ESPN, I have no idea why you wouldn't just pay less money to some older ex-coach types, or some recent players, who aren't realistic candidates for big head coaching jobs, but where you still get 90% of the benefit. Maybe they're deluded enough to think that people put stock in what these guys say on air.)

I think Gruden has done a masterful job of not just maintaining his reputation, but growing it, while out of the coaching game itself. He's still rumored as a candidate for jobs, and could probably get a pretty good coaching job if he ever needed to, but he doesn't actually have to produce anything, recruit, etc. Nice gig!

Thanks for pointing this out.
 
He was wrong. And would admit so. Matter of fact he has said soon after it was after a bad loss and a couple of cocktails. What is interesting is remember the posters who were going nuts after the loss to PSU.
it wasn't after a bad loss, it was halftime of Leach's first game as coach if I remember correctly "Leach won't get it done at WSU"
 
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Just took a look at Gruden's coaching resume. Is it even that good?

8-8
8-8
12-4 (lost in AFC CG)
10-6 (lost in div round)

12-4 (won SB)
7-9
5-11
11-5 (lost in WC round)
4-12
9-7 (lost in WC round)
9-7

I mean, yea, Super Bowl ring, but other than that; pretty "meh".
 
it wasn't after a bad loss, it was halftime of Leach's first game as coach if I remember correctly "Leach won't get it done at WSU"
During a loss...is that better? Kind of reminded when a poster wanted to fire a coach who went to the Rose Bowl and was building up toward another Rose Bowl. Finding a good coach who is a good fit is hard.

What Sponge didn't realize is how important those slot receivers are to this offense and like everyone else back then thought WSU was going to tear it up with the experience coming back and with a team that was starting to look respectable on offense.
 
Wow, those guys make a lot more money than I thought they did. I think Gruden might be somewhat of a special case -- his reputation seems to have grown as an on-air personality well beyond what it was when he was a coach -- and the ESPN business model wasn't failing as clearly back in 2016, but hell, even if Kelly makes 1/4 of what Gruden does, that's more than I thought, honestly, and I would think they'd have to pay more to someone like Kelly who is a legitimate candidate to return to the coaching ranks than some of the old ex-coach types they have on who aren't realistic candidates for that.

(Speaking of which, if you're ESPN, I have no idea why you wouldn't just pay less money to some older ex-coach types, or some recent players, who aren't realistic candidates for big head coaching jobs, but where you still get 90% of the benefit. Maybe they're deluded enough to think that people put stock in what these guys say on air.)

I think Gruden has done a masterful job of not just maintaining his reputation, but growing it, while out of the coaching game itself. He's still rumored as a candidate for jobs, and could probably get a pretty good coaching job if he ever needed to, but he doesn't actually have to produce anything, recruit, etc. Nice gig!

Thanks for pointing this out.

No problem. I enjoy looking into this type of stuff. TV is a big business. IF one reaches the pinnacle, they're paid handsomely.

ESPN is in big trouble because of the large contracts they cornered themselves into (including the MNF contract) and I think we'll see a very top heavy few in "talent" and more blogger type on their site in the next year or two.
 
What about those people. Are you referring to me? Talk to Biggs. We talked about hiring Leach as early as 2010. And he would tell you we both thought it would be a good hire.

In terms of Cunningham he said Rich Rod was the better hire and talked about Leach's late night lifestyle. Did we know if that meant Leach was drinking or did other things late at night and thus came in at non traditional hours. My guess is Cunningham insinuated Mike was drinking too much.

But in terms of hiring Leach I was all for it two years earlier and two years into the Wulff tenure. I just never thought they had the money.

Who else continually quoted Ed Cunningham?
 
During a loss...is that better? Kind of reminded when a poster wanted to fire a coach who went to the Rose Bowl and was building up toward another Rose Bowl. Finding a good coach who is a good fit is hard.

What Sponge didn't realize is how important those slot receivers are to this offense and like everyone else back then thought WSU was going to tear it up with the experience coming back and with a team that was starting to look respectable on offense.

You're making a comparison between 30 minutes of game time and entire seasons?

Oh boy....
 
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Just took a look at Gruden's coaching resume. Is it even that good?

8-8
8-8
12-4 (lost in AFC CG)
10-6 (lost in div round)

12-4 (won SB)
7-9
5-11
11-5 (lost in WC round)
4-12
9-7 (lost in WC round)
9-7

I mean, yea, Super Bowl ring, but other than that; pretty "meh".
Wow, so Gruden basically goes 0.500 on wins and hitting the playoffs, but he wins a Super Bowl, goes to television and all of a sudden he's King Midas. If that's what happens at 0.500 with a Lombardi, imagine Bill Belichick if he ever went to TV.

Somebody else made (or began to make?) the astute point that perhaps his refusal to squash any coaching search rumors is a calculated part of the mystique, or even that floating those rumors could be part of the Gruden PR hype machine.
 
Mora got fired because he could not evaluate HS talent. His first 3 seasons were rather good; he can coach. But his last 3 years were dependent upon his own recruiting classes, and he failed. He was a significant help in raising a lot of money for facilities. But should it cost $12M to fire him? I would fire the stupid AD right along with him...
 
Yeah I didn't actually post much here until I saw people acting completely stupid not understanding what actually was going on. Then I was like "all right time to educate the fan base". I only did it so they cna learn and not end up like others out there acting foolish when we had made a steal of a hire

It really will be interesting to see which of Graham / Rich Rod lasts the longest, I'm pretty sure Graham will go down first because rich rod has the star player to ride now for the next couple of years.

We'll see how this coaching carousel seasons goes, but I expect quite a bit of shuffling around the Pac-12. We have 2 vacancies right now (Oregon State / UCLA) the assistant shuffle can be much more turbulent than the HC one so, I expect there to be a lot of maneuvering going on.
RichRod may have handled the tough part for now. He's got a dynamic player to run his offense and a lot of his roster is quite young. He just had to survive this season to start to reap the benefits, and Tate gave him that. He may be around for a while. Graham's clock, on the other hand, is ticking. ASU and UCLA are tough gigs. They aren't the coach killer that Cal is (budget/resources closest to the OSU/WSU end of the spectrum but with far less patience), but winning in those places is clearly harder than it ought to be. UCLA hasn't strung together decent seasons since Toledo was coasting off the end of the Donohue era, and ASU is similarly up and down. I remember thinking the Sundevils did well to nab Bruce Snyder from Cal, and he had some .500 years but went to bowl games, including one year where I think he went through 5 quarterbacks. Still got the axe.
 
No problem. I enjoy looking into this type of stuff. TV is a big business. IF one reaches the pinnacle, they're paid handsomely.

ESPN is in big trouble because of the large contracts they cornered themselves into (including the MNF contract) and I think we'll see a very top heavy few in "talent" and more blogger type on their site in the next year or two.
Just read they're cutting $80 mil. from the payroll? Wow. Pardon me for saying this, but Gruden isn't compelling at all. Jaws was way better and probably a whole cheaper. I thought Ron was great breaking down film and bringing some insight into the game. Screw the hoaxy intro and all that time wasted on presenting MNF as some carnival...football fans know what the importance or they wouldn't be watching. You knew MNF was going wrong when Gifford was followed by Hank Jr. it was the death of MNF.
 
Just took a look at Gruden's coaching resume. Is it even that good?

8-8
8-8
12-4 (lost in AFC CG)
10-6 (lost in div round)

12-4 (won SB)
7-9
5-11
11-5 (lost in WC round)
4-12
9-7 (lost in WC round)
9-7

I mean, yea, Super Bowl ring, but other than that; pretty "meh".


Win/loss records almost look like a Mike Price resume. :D
 
Just read they're cutting $80 mil. from the payroll? Wow. Pardon me for saying this, but Gruden isn't compelling at all. Jaws was way better and probably a whole cheaper. I thought Ron was great breaking down film and bringing some insight into the game. Screw the hoaxy intro and all that time wasted on presenting MNF as some carnival...football fans know what the importance or they wouldn't be watching. You knew MNF was going wrong when Gifford was followed by Hank Jr. it was the death of MNF.

Agreed. I'm cool with the Carrie Underwood video on SNF, though. Different reasons.
 
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