Has good pieces to put together, but is not good whatsoever. Dickert seemed pissed in the second half. Hopefully he addresses that issue. Ward thinks he’s in NAIA ball and isn’t developing. Only positive from the O in the second half is Katzer looks like a decent piece going forward.
Offense is bad
- Thread starter chugspig
- Start date
Correction the offense is, was INCONSISTENT, sometimes good, sometimes bad.
Offense was AWESOME in the FIRST HALF.
4 TD's in that half.
FIRST DRIVE in 2nd half was good, should have had 7, instead of 3, but still good.
The rest of 2nd half was bad offensively, not because the offense was, is bad, but because they the offense took the foot off the gas pedal, and AGAIN SHOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT MULTIPLE TIMES A LOT in the 2ND HALF.
At the end of the game, it was good that the offense scored another 7 points.
Anytime your offense can put up about 300 yards passing, 5 TD's, 1 FG, 38 points, vs 1 int, inconsistency, is good.
WSU, Cam probably can, will continue to build upon this, improve.
the Cal game is where I think the offense will have a COMPLETE GAME OFFENSIVELY, without inconsistency, without shooting themselves in foot.
The offense was ok, decent, good, and GOOD ENOUGH to not only win, BUT BLOW OUT, BOAT RACE, etc.
Enjoy the win, the improvement the offense made, etc.
And don't worry about the offense, as they will continue to improve, and will have complete games eventually.
Your starting to come across as that you'll always find something wrong to nitpick about the offense.
Oline is the issue specifically Fafita at RT. But they were getting beat the entire second half
When the ball comes out on time offense looks good, when first couple reads aren't open OL and Ward's pocket presence aren't a good combo. Good to see Stribling and Ollie win so much in the first half.
We really don't use the Tight End for supposedly having a Tight End.
It looks like we could kill with some rpo
I swear our Oline is bipolar
It looks like we could kill with some rpo
I swear our Oline is bipolar
Yep. And it seems like we have an OC that is figuring out how and when to use the running game. Actually kinda nice for a change. We also have a helluva defense. (Between those 2, for the first time in a long time we don't necessarily live and die by how our QB plays. He can have a marginal game, or even a lousy game, and we can still win.) Players are making some strides each game. Coaches are figuring out what's working and what's not each game. We're 3-0 in spite of mistakes so far. This is gonna be a fun season.
Everyone got lazy at halftime. Players followed the crowd and acted like the game was over…to be fair it was, CSU wasn’t going to score 31 points in 4 games.
I would hope some juice remains in the stadium after halftime next week. Never understood how hard it is to spend 3 1/2 hours hanging out with your friends watching football.
Ward showed flashes of why he was highly regarded. That said, he has a lot of bad habits to break and an offensive line that earns its description "offensive" a little too often. As said above, the offensive just coasted after we went up 28-0.
Overall, very impressed with the defense but our secondary has shown that they have some work to do. As good as Henley is overall, he struggles a little bit when asked to drop into coverage. There were a couple plays where he looked lost in space and trying to figure out what to do. He's still a great personality and a ball player. Glad we got him.
As much as anything, I was very happy with the late defensive stop after the idiotic turnover in our territory. That's a spot where we would have usually given up a touchdown in the past but the defense didn't have time for that.
Overall, very impressed with the defense but our secondary has shown that they have some work to do. As good as Henley is overall, he struggles a little bit when asked to drop into coverage. There were a couple plays where he looked lost in space and trying to figure out what to do. He's still a great personality and a ball player. Glad we got him.
As much as anything, I was very happy with the late defensive stop after the idiotic turnover in our territory. That's a spot where we would have usually given up a touchdown in the past but the defense didn't have time for that.
The shitty thing is the starting defense should have been cheering on the backups at that point in the game. Garbage time points for the opponent are fine when you are up 42-0. If we had won 49-28 and the starters were out halfway through third Q as it should have been, you’re ok with that
Instead we almost lose a rotational player for the first half next week to a targeting penalty because the offense F’d around in the third quarter instead of burying a team they easily could have.
I won't say it's bad, it's inconsistent. It has shown flashes at times. It's bad compared to previous our offenses. We essentially had to replace the entire offensive line, plus two running back, and a few receivers. The important thing about this offense right now is just don't turn the ball over. The defense has only given up 4 TD's in 3 games. And one of those I'd put on Dickert clock management and the offense at the end of the first half against Wisconsin. Now, I think they thought we got a first down and that is why they hurried to the line. Regardless, the offense just needs to not make mistakes. WE don't need to score 40 or 50 to win games right now.
If you watch the CSU game, and part of the Wiscy game, I feel Ward doesn't handle pressure that well. If you give him time, he can find targets (even if they are check downs). If you blitz him and make him rush, 1) he has a tendency to force the ball (picks), or 2) stay in the pocket too long when he has a run lane to get sacked. He also is a little "loose" with the ball at times.
Based on what I've seen, I'd have him run more when he's feeling pressure (I said this last week).
I'm giving him a little bit of a pass as I think the speed of the game at this level is significantly faster than was he was doing the past few years.
I also think that we need to score points to win from here on out. "Game management" isn't going to beat the better teams in this conference. Scoring will.
Based on what I've seen, I'd have him run more when he's feeling pressure (I said this last week).
I'm giving him a little bit of a pass as I think the speed of the game at this level is significantly faster than was he was doing the past few years.
I also think that we need to score points to win from here on out. "Game management" isn't going to beat the better teams in this conference. Scoring will.
This 100%
CW is NOT as advertised. CML cannot be given enough credit for finding and developing capable qbs for the AR system, and his absence in this area is painfully obvious now.
It is paramount that our OC gameplan around CWs deficiencies, because all its going to take is a team to play 8 in the box to stuff the run and challenge CW to beat them and the O will be completely ineffective. At this point I've resigned myself to "it is what it is" and am hoping that CW just doesn't become a turnover machine because he's pressing to do more than he's capable of.
As far as having him run around - I think it could be a good tool if that is what they want him to be as a QB, but if they're wanting him to be a pocket passing AR qb, then no - he needs to learn to stand tall and go through his progressions. Those crossing patterns almost always open up, and if he can be patient enough it is a great option after the X and Y have run off the secondary. The same thing goes for the TE post/ seam patterns - they have to develop, and if he's doing a fire drill on every play the likelihood is that he won't see it, or if he does he'll be out of position to make a good/ accurate throw.
On the otherhand, if they want to add in a steady dose of RPO, I think he could be Oregon-esque in that capacity.
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They lack a true identity of who they are and what they want to do on offense, and needless to say consistency is an issue. The consistency is the obvious problem right now, there are there open receivers on most plays, CW just doesn't always see them, he saw them in the first half this week. The O line play while good at times, is not consistent, and did not play well for parts of the 2nd half. So I do believe the CW will do great in the long run he just isn't there yet. Is it a coaching thing, is he not recognizing the coverage? Easy for me to say sitting the in the stands, and this is not a problem unique to CW, it is is problem with most QBs, he is trying to be careful with the ball, and the defenses are more complex than what he has been exposed to in the past. I do believe as the game slows down for him, and he trusts what he sees we will continue see improvement, he simply needs more experience. At the same time he has to trust his O line, and they have been inconsistent as well, they will be tested this week. He has the tools, he is still raw to the passing game. Keep in mind he ran the triple option in HS. All Leach QBs came from HS with a predominate passing attack. Also Leach usually had a former Air raid QBs on staff help him, Graham Harrell was a big help to Luke Falk his first 2 years, and Falk's numbers dropped a bit after he left. So this is his 3rd year in a passing offense for Ward, he has improved a little each game, and based upon his skill set , we should see continued improvement over the year. I know Falk was working with the QB's earlier, not sure if he is still there, but CW needs a mentor. I just wish we had some of the easier conference games on the front end of the schedule, to help him adjust, but it is what it is, so we will see. Optimistically, after watching the Cougs for three games, there is a lot of potential, because this is one of the better defenses we have seen in 20 years, but in order to tap the potential, we need to see a big step in improvement in the offense each week.
Don't get it twisted - I'm not hating on the kid. But I think I speak for plenty of people that when we hear "Air Raid" and then we get a 6000 yard passer who was highly sought after transferring in, the expectations were a bit higher than what we're getting right now.
But as I said, it is what it is and hopefully he'll progress and the OC will run the offense accordingly.
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I think all of us feel the same way that you do about Ward. He definitely has not lived up to the billing of being one of the top 10 QB transfers in the country and has not met expectations. We all see his potential though and hope he can work out those kinks and live up to that original expectation.
I just went and revisited some of his game IW game film. He did progress through reads a bit better, but he had very little pressure, and almost never had to go to a 3rd or 4th read.
So yeah, the learning curve is real.
I get what you are saying, not suggesting you are hating on Ward. If you look at the numbers right now the Cougs are 11th in the conference at 355 yards a game, and 9th in average points, not something we have been accustomed to, and not something you expect from an Air Raid offense. There was a lot of hype around CW and based upon the numbers he hasn't lived up to the hype, fair or unfair. I like Ward, I think he has talent, has a cool head about him, and will be a winner, just going to take a little more time, I just hope he adjusts quickly.
However we are 3 and 0, managed to beat Wisconsin on the road, thanks to the defense and a 5+ minute game killing drive, led by CW, and he had a great 1st half against Colorado. So in 12 quarters, have seen 2 plus quarters of good offensive football the whole year, so there are positive signs, however we were all expecting a lot more. If those numbers continue, a winning record inside the conference will be impossible. We need 4 quarters of solid offense to beat the likes of Oregon, USC, Utah, OSU and Washington, and probably some others.
The WR routes seem a bit curious to me. We aren’t flooding zones or stretching the field And for gods sake, if we are going to play a TE then use him
Not quite accurate … how well did ar do against the huskies and cal for example .
But you and others are judging ward against minshew (senior), Gordon (senior) Halliday junior , falk freshman to senior.
While Ward has experience in the air raids, he has no experience going up against pac 12 athletes . None. It is coming at him much faster . It will take him time to get up to the speed of the game .
Leach’s brilliance is he never had a Rosie, Drew,Leaf who had the capabilities to lift a team . He always found qb’s who would stick around for a 5th year .
And ward was under constant pressure against csu in second half . That’s on the oline .
This is all typical young QB stuff. I agree with all of it. But it's not surprising. He hasn't even started a Pac-12 game yet.
Based on the second half of the Wiscy game and first half of the CSU game, I think he's trending upward. The jury is still out of course, and likely will be for at least 3 more games, if not the rest of the season. I do not see anyone one the roster that would do any better.
This is true, but it's part of the problem. Against Idaho and especially Colorado State...we should have seen someone else from the roster.
I'm still high on Ward's upside. Good Lord, the kid is just a Sophomore and is making the jump from the FCS to a program with a lot of program shifts with regard to coaching, coordinators, offensive line, and RBs.
He hasn't thrown the ball lights out yet, but he definitely has an "it" factor under center and moving around the pocket. When the game slows down for him, and it certainly will, I expect to see him evolve into a top-third QB in the conference.
He hasn't thrown the ball lights out yet, but he definitely has an "it" factor under center and moving around the pocket. When the game slows down for him, and it certainly will, I expect to see him evolve into a top-third QB in the conference.
This defense is doing Palouse Posse type stuff. Henley has graded out as the best LB in the country right now. Offense doesn’t need to score 40+, just need to not F it up for the defense and we will be in every game. Keep in mind the Wisconsin game is part of this and most of these schools on this list haven’t played anyone yet:
One thing that seems clear regarding the current Pac12 qb's, they're all scary good. I assume thats a result of the transfer portal/NIL situation. Can't remember when the conference had this much talent under center across virtually all programs.
Did you watch the LSU/MSU game? The Air Raid, with an experienced QB, was grounded yet again. The fact is the Air Raid is good only against 2nd and 3rd tier teams, it gets shut down against top tier teams virtually every time. So Leach's "QB" development is seriously overrated - unless you equate QB development big numbers against weak opponents. Against Big 10 teams Leach was 1-4, the win came against juggernaut Rutgers.
As for Cam Ward, after 3 games, he has a QBR of 144, Luke Falk had a career QBR of 142, Halliday 132, Minshew 147 at WSU. Yes, the best QB of the Leach era had a QBR of just 147. What should Cam's QBR be at this point, in your opinion 150, 160 170, while running a offense new to everyone but him? Ask yourself, are my expectations a bit unrealistic?
no. I expect a P5 starting qb to be able to get to their 3rd read and/ or see a blitz and check down.
So you are unhappy with 38 points and giving up 7
We had 28 with 6 minutes to go before halftime. So yes, 38 is disappointing. Especially when we never pulled the starters.
Tough crowd...we have a qb and two tackles who are new this year, two guards and we probably need more reps not less.
Okay, we'll accept your premise that Cam Ward is utter crap on progressions, and utter crap at picking up the blitz. It must seriously seriously impact his QBR, right? I ask again, what QBR would satisfy you - 150, 160, 170, assuming he went through the progressions as fast as you would like and picked up blitzes to your satisfaction? Because clearly a QBR of 144, despite playing with every other player new to the system, isn't good enough? Bear in mind that the "gold standard" for QB play at WSU is Leaf at was 159 in 1997 (playing with the same 10 basically, in the same system over two + seasons, with his QBR of only 127 in 96 and 121 in 95).
I believe you are being really unfair, boarding on spiteful, demanding with an overhaul of the offense, with a new QB and 10 guys trying to learn the system, that we should have started out firing on all cylinders. It never happens.
You forget that our offense was utterly dreadful under Leach, initially, 108th in the nation, a major regression from 2011, #45. We scored a TD or less 4 times in 2012. Our big win against USC, in game 2 in 2013. was 10-7, and our lone TD was a pick 6. But eventually ... things started to click. We weren't good in 2020 under Rolo, started the season 1-3 in 2021, and didn't score 30 against a BCS team until game 6, after scoring less than 30 in 7 straight games against BCS completion (we did kick PSU butt). but eventually ... things started to click.
However, Cam Ward and Jake Dickert, have to play/coach like the end product from day one? What am I missing?
So your rant has more to do with me crediting Leach for anything than my, and many others, speculation that this offense is more gristle than meat right now.
Yeah but all these QBs had a 297 QBR against everyone accept UW and a .5 QBR against UW.
Ed, you can't tell me you were "happy" with the offense.
Happy is when they play good, smart, consistent the whole way through.
Happy is when we are in the top 5 of the Pac-12.
Maybe you meant to say "they aren't doing that bad all things considered" (which is fine), but to be "HAPPY" when we basically scored the same on them as Middle Tennessee seems a little off.
I can almost guarantee that the coaches weren't "happy" with the offense after the first 20 minutes.
It is not all offense. It has been pretty obvious through three games our front seven is good and the secondary can be exploited. Regarding the offense, Ward is talented but plays sloppily. He also wears his emotions on his sleeve. You cannot do either at the P5 level.
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