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Offensive production, 2018 and 2019

dgibbons

dgibbons

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For 2018, 37.5 points per game, 451.5 yards per game, 373.8 passing yards per game, 77.7 rushing yards per game, 73.7 plays per game, 32:14 TOP per game. Third down conversions- 43%.

For 2019, 41.8 points per game, 521.9 yards per game, 436.4 passing yards per game, 85.5 rushing yards per game, 69 plays per game, 29:03 TOP per game. Third down conversions- 39%.

More points and more yards on less plays and less time of possession.

Edited to add third down conversion percentage.
 
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Interesting data, but not sure what the intent of your post is? But looking at offensive production only is like looking at only the deposits in your bank account.
 
Good find, I think some things don't show up in the stats-timely sustained drives, clutch plays when you need them-basically GM's leadership and poise. TOP is about the only thing betraying that difference.

Obvious defense is the difference and at least in the UCLA game special teams.

I wish Leach would hire a samoan and start recruiting some front seven players from the islands. We are missing Salavea.
 
2018: 10 P5 defenses faced, including UW and Cal, out of 13 games used for averages
2019: 5 P5 defenses faced out of 8 games used for averages; no UW or Cal in there yet

That is all. Otherwise, not making a claim. I suspect the stats may come down a bit. Oregon State is still in the mix, though.
 
425cougfan said:
2018: 10 P5 defenses faced, including UW and Cal, out of 13 games used for averages
2019: 5 P5 defenses faced out of 8 games used for averages; no UW or Cal in there yet

That is all. Otherwise, not making a claim. I suspect the stats may come down a bit. Oregon State is still in the mix, though.
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There have been enough games to start looking. Especially if people want to cast blame on one side or another. And the defense will be affected by "better opponents" just like better opponents will affect the offense as well.
 
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dgibbons said:
There have been enough games to start looking. Especially if people want to cast blame on one side or another.
Click to expand...

It's pretty clear which side of the ball is the problem, if that's the either/or proposition. At least, it is to anyone who approaches it honestly.
 
Barber and Destiny always underperformed in my book. Herc was solid, but really took off when Phelps arrived. Ekuale and Tago were backups until Phelps turned them into really good players. The D line of Tago, Comfort and Begg were much better than any of Salaveas big and slow Dlines.
 
I've been critical of this year's defense and have blamed it for the losses this season. I stand by that. The defense is the obvious weak link on this team. That being said, I do not believe that this year's offense is as good, or better than last year's. I think they're good...and capable...and would be 7-1 or 6-2 with an average defense.

My opinion is that if you took this year's defense and replaced last year's with it, that team would have likely lost the Utah, Stanford, Cal and Iowa State games that were so, so close. If that happens, that team is then a 7-6 team, instead of an 11-2 team. Well, they wouldn't even have played Iowa State because they wouldn't have been in the Alamo Bowl, so just regular season they'd be a 7-5 team. I seriously think they lose those games with this year's defense.

If you replace this year's defense with last year's on the 2019 team, the only game this team loses is the Utah game. They're sitting at 7-1 right now.

It's hard for me to have a feeling about how last year's team would have played with this year's offense, or this year's team with last year's offense. Beyond the intangibles like leadership, killer instinct, etc. that you can't measure, one HUGE statistic that is missing when comparing the offenses is TURNOVERS. I don't know what the differences are, but I have a strong suspicion that last year's offense committed fewer turnovers through 13 games than this year's has through 8. No turnover is a good turnover, but some of the turnovers this season (a lot of the turnovers this season) have taken points off the board and others have put the other team in immediate scoring position.

If I had to guess, I would say last year's team with this year's offense is a 9-3 team (bowl game not included). They probably drop one of the games mentioned above. This year's team with last year's offense is probably still sitting at 5-3. Our defense is just a wet paper sack.
 
that's about right, they would win 9-10 games not 11...….GM would be good enough/efficient enough to overcome the bad D, this years O is good but cant quite compensate
 
cougarhawk1 said:
that's about right, they would win 9-10 games not 11...….GM would be good enough/efficient enough to overcome the bad D, this years O is good but cant quite compensate
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Which loss would you say Minshew would have won that Gordon didn’t.
 
Minshew would have beat oregon for one he also would beat asu

Leadership may have helped settle the team with ucla but i dont blame gordon for that one
 
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I’ve always maintained that the defense has been the glaring problem this year, but let’s not forget that we still have 4 games left in the season. Two of those against top defensive teams.

The offense has looked good all season, outside of the game at Utah. We need them to carry the team this season if we hope to win at least 3 of the next 4 games. If they sputter down the stretch, we’ll lose games and our evaluation of them will be different than it is now.
 
Strokee23 said:
I've been critical of this year's defense and have blamed it for the losses this season. I stand by that. The defense is the obvious weak link on this team. That being said, I do not believe that this year's offense is as good, or better than last year's. I think they're good...and capable...and would be 7-1 or 6-2 with an average defense.

My opinion is that if you took this year's defense and replaced last year's with it, that team would have likely lost the Utah, Stanford, Cal and Iowa State games that were so, so close. If that happens, that team is then a 7-6 team, instead of an 11-2 team. Well, they wouldn't even have played Iowa State because they wouldn't have been in the Alamo Bowl, so just regular season they'd be a 7-5 team. I seriously think they lose those games with this year's defense.

If you replace this year's defense with last year's on the 2019 team, the only game this team loses is the Utah game. They're sitting at 7-1 right now.

It's hard for me to have a feeling about how last year's team would have played with this year's offense, or this year's team with last year's offense. Beyond the intangibles like leadership, killer instinct, etc. that you can't measure, one HUGE statistic that is missing when comparing the offenses is TURNOVERS. I don't know what the differences are, but I have a strong suspicion that last year's offense committed fewer turnovers through 13 games than this year's has through 8. No turnover is a good turnover, but some of the turnovers this season (a lot of the turnovers this season) have taken points off the board and others have put the other team in immediate scoring position.

If I had to guess, I would say last year's team with this year's offense is a 9-3 team (bowl game not included). They probably drop one of the games mentioned above. This year's team with last year's offense is probably still sitting at 5-3. Our defense is just a wet paper sack.
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That's a good overview. FYI, official stats show 13 turnovers through 8 games. 9 interceptions thrown by Gordon (probably at least a couple that weren't his fault....i.e., Arconado's tip in the endzone last week), and surprisingly only 4 fumbles lost this season. All 4 were in the UCLA game. In fact, if you take out the UCLA game, WSU has only turned the ball over 7 times with 2 of those being interceptions vs. Utah. (That UCLA game skews so many of the season stats, both offensively and defensively.)

Last year, through 8 games, Cougars turned the ball over 8 times, with 6 interceptions and 2 fumbles. Definitely better ball security last year, but again, that UCLA game really distorts the full season because of those 6 turnovers.

Glad Cougar
 
425cougfan said:
It's pretty clear which side of the ball is the problem, if that's the either/or proposition. At least, it is to anyone who approaches it honestly.
Click to expand...

The offense is compensating for a worse defense. I guess the narrative should be the offense needs to do more than it is already doing to overcome the poor defense, if you want to blame one side.
 
dgibbons said:
For 2018, 37.5 points per game, 451.5 yards per game, 373.8 passing yards per game, 77.7 rushing yards per game, 73.7 plays per game, 32:14 TOP per game. Third down conversions- 43%.

For 2019, 41.8 points per game, 521.9 yards per game, 436.4 passing yards per game, 85.5 rushing yards per game, 69 plays per game, 29:03 TOP per game. Third down conversions- 39%.

More points and more yards on less plays and less time of possession.

Edited to add third down conversion percentage.
Click to expand...

Stats don't always tell the whole story. Throw in first half ending drives and last minute game winning drives and that isn't calculated in your stats. You can't put in numbers what his making game winning plays, even if it was just getting a first down means to the team, and not just the offensive side of the ball.
 
CougEd said:
Stats don't always tell the whole story. Throw in first half ending drives and last minute game winning drives and that isn't calculated in your stats. You can't put in numbers what his making game winning plays, even if it was just getting a first down means to the team, and not just the offensive side of the ball.
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Then show us something that does "tell the whole story." What does throwing in "first half ending drives and last minute game winning drives" tell us? Why are you making this is solely about Gordon?
 
CougEd said:
Stats don't always tell the whole story. Throw in first half ending drives and last minute game winning drives and that isn't calculated in your stats. You can't put in numbers what his making game winning plays, even if it was just getting a first down means to the team, and not just the offensive side of the ball.
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If you are referring to Gordon, he showed some of that clutch playmaking vs. the Ducks, at least. A drive that ended with a TD pass to Bell in the last minute of the first half to tie the score and the 90-yard drive & Arconado TD pass with a minute to go giving WSU the lead at the end of the game. If Minshew is going to be the standard by which all Cougar QBs are judged, we are going to have a lot of disappointing seasons.

Glad Cougar
 
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Glad Cougar said:
If you are referring to Gordon, he showed some of that clutch playmaking vs. the Ducks, at least. A drive that ended with a TD pass to Bell in the last minute of the first half to tie the score and the 90-yard drive & Arconado TD pass with a minute to go giving WSU the lead at the end of the game. If Minshew is going to be the standard by which all Cougar QBs are judged, we are going to have a lot of disappointing seasons.

Glad Cougar
Click to expand...

No one has accused Ed of knowing what he's talking about.
 
Glad Cougar said:
If you are referring to Gordon, he showed some of that clutch playmaking vs. the Ducks, at least. A drive that ended with a TD pass to Bell in the last minute of the first half to tie the score and the 90-yard drive & Arconado TD pass with a minute to go giving WSU the lead at the end of the game. If Minshew is going to be the standard by which all Cougar QBs are judged, we are going to have a lot of disappointing seasons.

Glad Cougar
Click to expand...

And the plays he didn't make against UCLA and ASU, the most egregious was one of the easier throws against ASU where he sailed 10 yards over a wide open receiver on a crucial 3rd down.

Yeah it may be harsh, but the QB whether it is falk gordon or minshew have the ball in their hands 100% of the time. WSU with it s recruiting and having their play-makers on offense it is incumbent on putting up plus 40 every game.

Minshew prior to coming to WSU was a PT starter at ECU. Did he ever lead ECU on last minute drives?

The difference between Gordon and Minshew(until the duck game), both one year starters but Minshew had IT about him since training camp. And there was never any questions when there was a play to be made it was going to be made. It was just him. He didn't have a good second half against Utah, but it was almost assumed he was going to make a game winning play.

Until last Saturday, gordon was a thrower. Yeah Ryan got beat on the fumble. But did you have any question that Leach was going to string together play calls that would have led us to a TD? I don't. I was flat out shocked when we just had a dud at the end of the game. And to be honest there was either two or three series in the 3rd quarter in which he could have taken over the team and made a play, even if it was only moving down for a fg.

I have always believed when they have someone like gesser or minshew, it raises the entire team. Gordon may have stepped up in the Oregon game and the team may rise with him, including the defense.
 
We've fairly regularly criticized clock management ever since Leach got here, but I'm going to do it again anyway.

We've lost 3 games this season in the last 67 seconds of the game. UCLA scored the go-ahead at 1:07, ASU scored at 0:34, and Oregon scored at 0:00.

Based on the numbers above, we run 4.7 fewer plays this season, and hold the ball for 3:11 less. Doing that math, we're giving the other team the ball for more than 40 seconds per play lost.

So...use more time. Wait an average of 2 more seconds per play. At 69 plays per game, that burns another 138 seconds, or 2:18. Do that in the three games above, and the clock runs out before the opponent scores the go-ahead.

This becomes more critical late in the game. We've seen (in these three games) Gordon snapping the ball with 10-15 seconds left on the play clock. Burn that time. Take another look at the coverage. Bite your nails, pick your nose, scratch your ass, eat a sandwich. Anything to eat a little more time. When you're under 5 minutes and sitting on less than a 14 point lead, and the clock is running you should never leave more than 2 seconds on the play clock.
 
CougEd said:
And the plays he didn't make against UCLA and ASU, the most egregious was one of the easier throws against ASU where he sailed 10 yards over a wide open receiver on a crucial 3rd down.

Yeah it may be harsh, but the QB whether it is falk gordon or minshew have the ball in their hands 100% of the time. WSU with it s recruiting and having their play-makers on offense it is incumbent on putting up plus 40 every game.

Minshew prior to coming to WSU was a PT starter at ECU. Did he ever lead ECU on last minute drives?

The difference between Gordon and Minshew(until the duck game), both one year starters but Minshew had IT about him since training camp. And there was never any questions when there was a play to be made it was going to be made. It was just him. He didn't have a good second half against Utah, but it was almost assumed he was going to make a game winning play.

Until last Saturday, gordon was a thrower. Yeah Ryan got beat on the fumble. But did you have any question that Leach was going to string together play calls that would have led us to a TD? I don't. I was flat out shocked when we just had a dud at the end of the game. And to be honest there was either two or three series in the 3rd quarter in which he could have taken over the team and made a play, even if it was only moving down for a fg.

I have always believed when they have someone like gesser or minshew, it raises the entire team. Gordon may have stepped up in the Oregon game and the team may rise with him, including the defense.
Click to expand...

Cause we all know that Minshew, Gesser, Leaf, Falk, and every other QB that has ever suited up never missed any throws.
 
95coug said:
We've fairly regularly criticized clock management ever since Leach got here, but I'm going to do it again anyway.

We've lost 3 games this season in the last 67 seconds of the game. UCLA scored the go-ahead at 1:07, ASU scored at 0:34, and Oregon scored at 0:00.

Based on the numbers above, we run 4.7 fewer plays this season, and hold the ball for 3:11 less. Doing that math, we're giving the other team the ball for more than 40 seconds per play lost.

So...use more time. Wait an average of 2 more seconds per play. At 69 plays per game, that burns another 138 seconds, or 2:18. Do that in the three games above, and the clock runs out before the opponent scores the go-ahead.

This becomes more critical late in the game. We've seen (in these three games) Gordon snapping the ball with 10-15 seconds left on the play clock. Burn that time. Take another look at the coverage. Bite your nails, pick your nose, scratch your ass, eat a sandwich. Anything to eat a little more time. When you're under 5 minutes and sitting on less than a 14 point lead, and the clock is running you should never leave more than 2 seconds on the play clock.
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We weren't sitting on any 14 point leads with five minutes left in any of those games. UCLA scored early in the 4th quarter to make the score 49-46.
 
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dgibbons said:
We weren't sitting on any 14 point leads with five minutes left in any of those games. UCLA scored early in the 4th quarter to make the score 49-46.
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Read it again. I said less than 5 minutes and less than 14. And we snapped with 12 on the play clock...frequently
 
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