Olympics and Korea(s)

[Loyal Coug]

I find it heartening to see this unified Korean team, and Kim Jong's little sister wowing the world in Seoul. Of course Pence won't even acknowledge or meet her. I would, she's a cutie.

While real unification will probably never occur, I hope for a real relationship breakthrough between North and South, which would be good for the US. And the whole world. Wonder if S. Korea's Prez will be brave enough to travel to N. Korea as invited. If sis is brave enough to come South,......

Will be curious to see how many N. athletes defect during/after the Games. That could put a wrench in things.

 

[Tx64]

I find it heartening to see this unified Korean team, and Kim Jong's little sister wowing the world in Seoul. Of course Pence won't even acknowledge or meet her. I would, she's a cutie.

While real unification will probably never occur, I hope for a real relationship breakthrough between North and South, which would be good for the US. And the whole world. Wonder if S. Korea's Prez will be brave enough to travel to N. Korea as invited. If sis is brave enough to come South,......

Will be curious to see how many N. athletes defect during/after the Games. That could put a wrench in things.

I assume you want to see a unified Korea under the South democracy rather than the North's regime.

 

[YakiCoug]

I find it heartening to see this unified Korean team, and Kim Jong's little sister wowing the world in Seoul. Of course Pence won't even acknowledge or meet her. I would, she's a cutie.

While real unification will probably never occur, I hope for a real relationship breakthrough between North and South, which would be good for the US. And the whole world. Wonder if S. Korea's Prez will be brave enough to travel to N. Korea as invited. If sis is brave enough to come South,......

Will be curious to see how many N. athletes defect during/after the Games. That could put a wrench in things.

Not if she's menstruating... . That guy is a fvcking tool.

 

[kayak15]

I find it heartening to see this unified Korean team, and Kim Jong's little sister wowing the world in Seoul. Of course Pence won't even acknowledge or meet her. I would, she's a cutie.

While real unification will probably never occur, I hope for a real relationship breakthrough between North and South, which would be good for the US. And the whole world. Wonder if S. Korea's Prez will be brave enough to travel to N. Korea as invited. If sis is brave enough to come South,......

Will be curious to see how many N. athletes defect during/after the Games. That could put a wrench in things.

I would be very surprised to see any defections from their athletes. Korean tradition is that major crime/embarrassments result in punishment for three generations. Grandparents, parents, siblings all get the axe. Not sure about aunts, uncles and cousins. Their athletic team is being guarded by North Korean law enforcement officials and also South Korean ones. I seriously doubt if the South Koreans want any defections to occur as their current president is trying to deal with Pyongyang diplomatically and this would throw a wrench in the process as you noted.

Unification is inevitable but I do not see it happening as long as the current regime is in power. Eventually the North Koreans themselves will have to evolve into a more reasonable form of government. Trying to do it militarily would cause a major catastrophe for both the south and north.

Jong Un's sister's visit is just a publicity ploy and, I suspect, meaningless other than that. She is in no danger as she is accompanied by numerous guards from both north and south. The South Korean president probably is inclined to visit the north and will go. Not to do so would be a considerable insult especially since the invitation was rendered publically.

South Korea vacillates between hard nose presidents and softer diplomatic ones. Nothing works. The change will have to come from the north itself.

 

[Tx64]

I would be very surprised to see any defections from their athletes. Korean tradition is that major crime/embarrassments result in punishment for three generations. Grandparents, parents, siblings all get the axe. Not sure about aunts, uncles and cousins. Their athletic team is being guarded by North Korean law enforcement officials and also South Korean ones. I seriously doubt if the South Koreans want any defections to occur as their current president is trying to deal with Pyongyang diplomatically and this would throw a wrench in the process as you noted.

Unification is inevitable but I do not see it happening as long as the current regime is in power. Eventually the North Koreans themselves will have to evolve into a more reasonable form of government. Trying to do it militarily would cause a major catastrophe for both the south and north.

Jong Un's sister's visit is just a publicity ploy and, I suspect, meaningless other than that. She is in no danger as she is accompanied by numerous guards from both north and south. The South Korean president probably is inclined to visit the north and will go. Not to do so would be a considerable insult especially since the invitation was rendered publically.

South Korea vacillates between hard nose presidents and softer diplomatic ones. Nothing works. The change will have to come from the north itself.

I agree with you. I think both China and Russia will do everything in their power to make sure the Korea never unifies.

 

[kayak15]

I agree with you. I think both China and Russia will do everything in their power to make sure the Korea never unifies.

Quite so. Another good point. The last thing that those two want is a strong prosperous U.S. ally on their border. I am assuming that a unified Korea would be a larger version of South Korea. North Korea is a buffer for them.

 

[ElComanche]

The whole political posturing with Pence on the other side is ridiculous. The situation is dangerous and this thread should not be on a sports board.

 

[Tx64]

Quite so. Another good point. The last thing that those two want is a strong prosperous U.S. ally on their border. I am assuming that a unified Korea would be a larger version of South Korea. North Korea is a buffer for them.

It is nice to see intellectuals on this board. I see it bother some.

For those that do not like this type of discussion. I have looked everywhere I could think of to try to get a hint as to who and when Leach would fill his staff. Worst case scenario I do think he could fill the positions with his analysts. He has some good ones.

 

[Coug90]

I find it heartening to see this unified Korean team, and Kim Jong's little sister wowing the world in Seoul. Of course Pence won't even acknowledge or meet her. I would, she's a cutie.

While real unification will probably never occur, I hope for a real relationship breakthrough between North and South, which would be good for the US. And the whole world. Wonder if S. Korea's Prez will be brave enough to travel to N. Korea as invited. If sis is brave enough to come South,......

Will be curious to see how many N. athletes defect during/after the Games. That could put a wrench in things.

Never gonna happen. This is a ploy by KJU to gain sympathy from the world as his country suffers horribly from the sanctions because he won't pull back on his nuclear vision. It's all politics. NK is still NK and KJU is still KJU.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Kayak, +1 on your post. Pretty much correct across the board.

The northern regime is a crime against humanity in more than one way. At this point the answer is not external intervention, despite the mass starvation, torture and imprisonment. Suffering on an almost unimaginable scale.

Seating the US senior representative so close to the NK representative was not particularly good thinking. No way should they be seated in a way where one photo shot includes both. Dumb.

 

[kayak15]

The whole political posturing with Pence on the other side is ridiculous. The situation is dangerous and this thread should not be on a sports board.

Agree. As Cr8zy noted the seating arrangement should have been reconsidered. At best, it leaves Pence in an uncomfortable spot. Could also result at him doing something silly and embarrassing.

As far as this thread's existence here is concerned, where else can we discuss the Olympics? It is the major sporting event at the moment and, yes, there is an 800 pound gorilla in the room which cannot be ignored. I have requested that Rivals include an off-topic forum as well as a non-football or basketball one but that is not in the company's pipeline at the moment.

Hey, Scott! Leave this thread up. We're talking about the Olympics here and politics cannot be avoided to at least some degree.

 

[random soul]

Quite so. Another good point. The last thing that those two want is a strong prosperous U.S. ally on their border. I am assuming that a unified Korea would be a larger version of South Korea. North Korea is a buffer for them.

Actually I think you only got this half right. Barring some sequence of stupid events from Kim, Trump, or both, the long term likelihood is North Korea's government crashing under its own weight. (I'm actually a bit surprised they've lasted this long; it's the last genuinely Stalinist regime on the planet.) China in particular will try to prevent this and then slow it down for as long as possible less out of fear of US encroachment (a unified Korea would be more of a geopolitical nuisance and possible intel problem than a real source of concern unless tactical nukes start getting parked next to the new border or something dumb like that) and more because they do NOT want millions of starving refugees pouring into their country when the lights finally go out. The Chinese government has no real love for the Kims because of all the headaches they cause, but they also want no part of cleaning up the mess.

 

[kayak15]

Actually I think you only got this half right. Barring some sequence of stupid events from Kim, Trump, or both, the long term likelihood is North Korea's government crashing under its own weight. (I'm actually a bit surprised they've lasted this long; it's the last genuinely Stalinist regime on the planet.) China in particular will try to prevent this and then slow it down for as long as possible less out of fear of US encroachment (a unified Korea would be more of a geopolitical nuisance and possible intel problem than a real source of concern unless tactical nukes start getting parked next to the new border or something dumb like that) and more because they do NOT want millions of starving refugees pouring into their country when the lights finally go out. The Chinese government has no real love for the Kims because of all the headaches they cause, but they also want no part of cleaning up the mess.

China is already dealing with starving refugees from North Korea. A collapse of the Kim regime would probably create an additional flood of those but only temporarily. Same with the Russian border. A unified Korea under Seoul's guidance would eliminate that. If however the peninsula remained divided then, yes, China would be screwed. Interestingly, there is a small but not insignificant portion of the South Korean populace who dread the unification for exactly the reason you mentioned. They would have to clean up the Kim family's mess. They noticed the problems that Germany had when they underwent unification, problems that still exist today to a lessening degree. East Germany's problems were tiny compared to the constant disaster that Pyongyang is causing. Guess who else would be on the hook. Yep, the American taxpayers as we would be dragged into it for sure.

 

[ElComanche]

One can get rather political rather than "intellectual" on this board. Not everyone sees the political situation the same way. Many other countries point out why does Israel have nukes ?as they are not a country "sanctioned to have nukes.The real reasons are always political and who is perceived as the good guy is in the eye of the beholder. The saber rattling by both N Korea and Trump is cause for concern throughout the World .Now it appears that The USA wants to add more nuclear weapons to keep up with the USSR.Another arms race is brewing and China is trying to build up its arsenal. N Korea will soon be lost in the shuffle and the major powers are fighting for logistical military dominance.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

It is possible that the two Koreas will eventually unite, but if so, it looks to me as though it would be an even less successful version of the German unification. In Germany, West ended up subsidizing East to an extent that was not anticipated prior to the event, many eastern industries came close to collapse because they could not compete, a definite have/have not situation resulted and there are still a lot of social problems stemming from that. And that is with a relatively competent, relatively well funded West trying hard to bring along the East. I have to think that the challenge in Korea would be far greater, and a lot of international assistance would be needed.

Sports is often an ice breaker. Ping pong in China during Nixon's era comes immediately to mind. Current Olympic hockey is another example. Kudos to Sarah Murray; Andy's daughter (Andy is the LA King's coach). She has done a pretty outstanding job thus far in integrating some NK players at the last minute into a SK women's hockey team that had been together for 2+ years. That included having to cut some of the SK team to make room. Her navigation of those waters has been some of the most skillful that I've seen, given the many ramifications. She ought to work for the State Department. So sports is a potential ice breaker, but once the ice is broken, there has to be a will to proceed further. We'll see what happens over the next few years.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Agree. As Cr8zy noted the seating arrangement should have been reconsidered. At best, it leaves Pence in an uncomfortable spot. Could also result at him doing something silly and embarrassing.

As far as this thread's existence here is concerned, where else can we discuss the Olympics? It is the major sporting event at the moment and, yes, there is an 800 pound gorilla in the room which cannot be ignored. I have requested that Rivals include an off-topic forum as well as a non-football or basketball one but that is not in the company's pipeline at the moment.

Hey, Scott! Leave this thread up. We're talking about the Olympics here and politics cannot be avoided to at least some degree.

Pence could and should have gone over, given her a polite greeting and a respectful handshake, then gone back and sat down. No more, no less. Instead he looks like an ass.

My original point here was that it is heartening to see some sort of thaw. Who cares if it is all a show by Jong whatever. You get the actual human beings playing together, get people of the same "country" talking and socializing. Puts a human face on both sides, away from the politicians. No downside there. Don't give Jong too much credit for being a master manipulator.

 

[random soul]

It is possible that the two Koreas will eventually unite, but if so, it looks to me as though it would be an even less successful version of the German unification. In Germany, West ended up subsidizing East to an extent that was not anticipated prior to the event, many eastern industries came close to collapse because they could not compete, a definite have/have not situation resulted and there are still a lot of social problems stemming from that. And that is with a relatively competent, relatively well funded West trying hard to bring along the East. I have to think that the challenge in Korea would be far greater, and a lot of international assistance would be needed.

Sports is often an ice breaker. Ping pong in China during Nixon's era comes immediately to mind. Current Olympic hockey is another example. Kudos to Sarah Murray; Andy's daughter (Andy is the LA King's coach). She has done a pretty outstanding job thus far in integrating some NK players at the last minute into a SK women's hockey team that had been together for 2+ years. That included having to cut some of the SK team to make room. Her navigation of those waters has been some of the most skillful that I've seen, given the many ramifications. She ought to work for the State Department. So sports is a potential ice breaker, but once the ice is broken, there has to be a will to proceed further. We'll see what happens over the next few years.

Honestly I was 9 the last time the Games were in Korea, and my primary memories from those Games were Ben Johnson cheating and the Roy Jones Jr controversy. So far this edition is doing far better that way.

 

[kayak15]

Maybe it's just me but I find some of the winter games to be fascinating. Even some of the more obscure ones like curling. Reminds me of the shuffleboard games I played in taverns fifty years ago only now it's on ice and larger. Still cannot stand figure skating though. I find it boring and silly.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Maybe it's just me but I find some of the winter games to be fascinating. Even some of the more obscure ones like curling. Reminds me of the shuffleboard games I played in taverns fifty years ago only now it's on ice and larger. Still cannot stand figure skating though. I find it boring and silly.

The thing I don't like about figure skating (no not the figures, that is why everyone watches and we all know it ) and other events that require "judges" is just that - it is all judgment based and prone to bias. Yes all sports have referees - but racing is all about the time. Team sports are who scores the most. Pretty straight forward. Once crap like rhythmic dancing and IMHO things like the snowboard style stuff became events the Olympics went way downhill.

 

[Coug95man2]

The thing I don't like about figure skating (no not the figures, that is why everyone watches and we all know it ) and other events that require "judges" is just that - it is all judgment based and prone to bias. Yes all sports have referees - but racing is all about the time. Team sports are who scores the most. Pretty straight forward. Once crap like rhythmic dancing and IMHO things like the snowboard style stuff became events the Olympics went way downhill.

You've touched on a definition difference that has been lost in today's orange slices and trophies for all world.

There is "sport". Based on score, time, etc. something unbiased.

"Competition" is judged. Bias is inherent.

I remember reading several articles a few weeks ago, regarding the Olympics and how NK was going to manipulate the world by using and manipulating the Olympic stage. Now, those same papers are fawning over the NK delegation. So many times, it sure feels like we are all being led around like cattle with a nose ring... Blind to the leading but don't want to think beyond our own nose.

 

[fingerdisco]

You've touched on a definition difference that has been lost in today's orange slices and trophies for all world.

There is "sport". Based on score, time, etc. something unbiased.

"Competition" is judged. Bias is inherent.

I remember reading several articles a few weeks ago, regarding the Olympics and how NK was going to manipulate the world by using and manipulating the Olympic stage. Now, those same papers are fawning over the NK delegation. So many times, it sure feels like we are all being led around like cattle with a nose ring... Blind to the leading but don't want to think beyond our own nose.

The Olympics have become the X games.

 

[Coug95man2]

The Olympics have become the X games.

You saw the same meme! lol.

 

[ElComanche]

Well NK won the Olympic propaganda War ,if there is such a thing. Pence went there for the same purpose but his vanilla approach and refusal to stand for a United Korea made him look silly like a pouting kid.

 

[fingerdisco]

You saw the same meme! lol.

Actually no, but it doesn’t surprise me there’s one out there. I’m sick of hours and hours of broadcasts of “exhibitions” of huckin’ tricks. That’s pretty much all you get to watch anymore.

 

[Coug95man2]

Actually no, but it doesn’t surprise me there’s one out there. I’m sick of hours and hours of broadcasts of “exhibitions” of huckin’ tricks. That’s pretty much all you get to watch anymore.

 

[fingerdisco]

To quote Homer Simpson, “it’s funny because it’s true.”

 

[Coug95man2]

Well NK won the Olympic propaganda War ,if there is such a thing. Pence went there for the same purpose but his vanilla approach and refusal to stand for a United Korea made him look silly like a pouting kid.

They've only won if you look past who they really are, ElC. They literally have blood of innocent people on their hands. They starve their own children to the point of stunting growth permanently and allow health to deteriorate to extreme levels. The people are forced to use raw human feces to "fertilize" their crops, thus insuring the populations parasite infestation is completely saturated and also insures an uprise is less possible. Too weak! People are literally dying by starvation. People are literally dying from beatings at the hands of their own government. Its normal for people to just disappear while being held by the government. Behind that cute little sister, are acts that would rival any war crime. It's systematic, intentional (not emotional), well planned and it's to their own people. And everyone warned everyone... "Don't buy into it! They'll use the Olympics to help soften what they do!"

You may not like Pence but if you are going to side with what NK is doing, or has done, thus thinking they've "won" the propaganda war, it is unfortunate. I can't imagine even allowing someone that is smiling, but a murderer and torturer of their own people, even begin to win anything in my mind. Even if it's Pence, Trump, Hillary, Obama or Johnson on the other side of that coin. I'd side with just about anyone OTHER than NK. No hesitation, no question.

The Olympics have always had an element of politics in it. Some more front and center and in great need, other times it's quiet and without so much panic. That's inevitable. The Olympics in Berlin comes to immediate mind of a time that I'm sure was VERY political.

But hey... as long as they are smiling and cute, then they've won the propaganda war.

 

[mister noon]

my interest in the olympic games nose dived after watching the Real Sports expose - the olympic organization greed and the mess it leaves behind that the host country if left with to clean up is disgusting

 

[Loyal Coug]

They've only won if you look past who they really are, ElC. They literally have blood of innocent people on their hands. They starve their own children to the point of stunting growth permanently and allow health to deteriorate to extreme levels. The people are forced to use raw human feces to "fertilize" their crops, thus insuring the populations parasite infestation is completely saturated and also insures an uprise is less possible. Too weak! People are literally dying by starvation. People are literally dying from beatings at the hands of their own government. Its normal for people to just disappear while being held by the government. Behind that cute little sister, are acts that would rival any war crime. It's systematic, intentional (not emotional), well planned and it's to their own people. And everyone warned everyone... "Don't buy into it! They'll use the Olympics to help soften what they do!"

You may not like Pence but if you are going to side with what NK is doing, or has done, thus thinking they've "won" the propaganda war, it is unfortunate. I can't imagine even allowing someone that is smiling, but a murderer and torturer of their own people, even begin to win anything in my mind. Even if it's Pence, Trump, Hillary, Obama or Johnson on the other side of that coin. I'd side with just about anyone OTHER than NK. No hesitation, no question.

The Olympics have always had an element of politics in it. Some more front and center and in great need, other times it's quiet and without so much panic. That's inevitable. The Olympics in Berlin comes to immediate mind of a time that I'm sure was VERY political.

But hey... as long as they are smiling and cute, then they've won the propaganda war.

Well here is my thought. The North Koreans that are at the Games (athletes, little sis, entourages, even security) will see life in the real world, and how it is filled with hope, opportunity and good will. Then they will go back to the realities of N. Korea. Is the skating team then going to rise up and depose Jong? Of course not. Will those few people make a real difference in changing the people's will? Well, highly unlikely. But ya gotta start somewhere.

 

[Coug95man2]

Well here is my thought. The North Koreans that are at the Games (athletes, little sis, entourages, even security) will see life in the real world, and how it is filled with hope, opportunity and good will. Then they will go back to the realities of N. Korea. Is the skating team then going to rise up and depose Jong? Of course not. Will those few people make a real difference in changing the people's will? Well, highly unlikely. But ya gotta start somewhere.

I completely agree you gotta start somewhere. 2 things:

1) Lets turn the table... people are commenting on how Pence should have gone up to her to shake hands, greet, etc. Why shouldn't she? Why is she given the gift of sitting there like a smiling lump without the same questions posed to her? She's also family. I see her looking at Pence and wondering what kind of wine to go with his liver and fava beans. She's creepy as hell, to me. Bet she uses that same smile while overwatching the torturing of her countrymen. I have no doubt that she has just as much blood on her hands as anyone else in that family/government. I wouldn't buy it that she's equal to the athletes in "innocence". I'd say that of her security and a good portion of her entourage, as well.

2) Diplomacy is a very, very hard thing. You do have to start somewhere. But why is it on Pence to "start" somewhere? Dozens atop dozens of countries, of all political stripes, has "started" good will with NK. The United States has "started" diplomacy and good will with NK. And have done so for literally decades. Odd that you'd say he has to "start" it.

Regardless, I can't imagine there not being some talks, behind closed doors, going on. What we see on TV is all for theatre. Yet again... Hunger Games...

 

[Loyal Coug]

I completely agree you gotta start somewhere. 2 things:

1) Lets turn the table... people are commenting on how Pence should have gone up to her to shake hands, greet, etc. Why shouldn't she? Why is she given the gift of sitting there like a smiling lump without the same questions posed to her? She's also family. I see her looking at Pence and wondering what kind of wine to go with his liver and fava beans. She's creepy as hell, to me. Bet she uses that same smile while overwatching the torturing of her countrymen. I have no doubt that she has just as much blood on her hands as anyone else in that family/government. I wouldn't buy it that she's equal to the athletes in "innocence". I'd say that of her security and a good portion of her entourage, as well.

2) Diplomacy is a very, very hard thing. You do have to start somewhere. But why is it on Pence to "start" somewhere? Dozens atop dozens of countries, of all political stripes, has "started" good will with NK. The United States has "started" diplomacy and good will with NK. And have done so for literally decades. Odd that you'd say he has to "start" it.

Regardless, I can't imagine there not being some talks, behind closed doors, going on. What we see on TV is all for theatre. Yet again... Hunger Games...

I would not have called on Pence to "start somewhere". But as a man and the #2 person from the most powerful country in the world, yeah he should have gone over, had a polite acknowledgement and handshake, and that's it. Oh and he at least should have stood up out of respect when the hometown Korean team marched through. No need to cheer. Just show respect. Because we are the adults in the room.

 

[Coug95man2]

I would not have called on Pence to "start somewhere". But as a man and the #2 person from the most powerful country in the world, yeah he should have gone over, had a polite acknowledgement and handshake, and that's it. Oh and he at least should have stood up out of respect when the hometown Korean team marched through. No need to cheer. Just show respect. Because we are the adults in the room.

Mistook your "gotta start somewhere" with your comments towards Pence.

Agreed on the "adult" part though. The handshake.... meh. That's where diplomacy, politics, etc all come into play and I'll aquiesse to the politicians on that one. A handshake to you and me isn't the same in that situation. A handshake may not have been appropriate. Some sort of eye contact, sure I guess. A smile? Meh. Whatever. We can be the bigger man somehow but I still wouldn't tip my hand, give power away, etc.. So I'll trust Pence, the same way I trusted Obama, when he didn't do anything. His "strategic patience" program was a bit of a head scratcher but I trusted him on it. I don't know what happens behind any closed door or phone call.

The standing for the Korean Peninsula athletes, you are spot on, no question. Don't need to "respect" the NK but don't disrespect the SK.

Pence was overplaying his contempt of NK's actions, to be sure. But man, I think I'd probably angry vomit on her. She's putrid and stands for everything bad in this world. She is one of the ugliest people on this planet, in my view. And I am working pretty hard at keeping any hyperbole out of that statement. The NK literally views their people as being owned by them, loyal. How she is "cute" to you, is beyond me.

Pence could have softened. I'll bet he will but this is the first salvo. I hope he does. This is the closest someone this high up in our administration has been to a delegate this high in NK's administration, since Carter met NK for Clinton. They completely used Carter and Clinton to get what they wanted but still... It's an opportunity. We just need to make sure we aren't used again. Hopefully there will be something that comes of this. But I'll give our politicians all the benefit, even the Trump/Pence admin, over the NK regime. Trump/Pence are "great people" compared to what NK stands for. I think you'd agree, if you were honest.

 

[ElComanche]

I find the whole political scene disturbing. The horrific acts by NK are well documented. however the childish temper tantrums by trump are also terrifying. We have two children who seemingly would risk nuclear war to satisfy a whim or to save face. This topic is way off as i said in the beginning and this forum is not a place to wage a political discussion which will only go around in circles. There will not be any winners and losers.And no i do not think that trump and pence are great people. I can hardly wait for the next election when they will be booted out of office

 

[kayak15]

my interest in the olympic games nose dived after watching the Real Sports expose - the olympic organization greed and the mess it leaves behind that the host country if left with to clean up is disgusting

I enjoy watching the Olympics but you are certainly correct in pointing out the sleaze in its management. Phony "amateurs" back when that was a requirement to the government directed PEDs. The last is a problem that appeared at the last Winter Games and undoubtedly still goes on now. And the bribing in the selection process of determining locations is disgusting. That said, I do not place blame directly on the participants. They are not involved or merely following orders.

The host country's problems is of their own making. If they want to spend millions on bicycling, ice skating and other venues that they know are never going to be used again then that is of their own decision and the problem falls on them. The taxpayers of the country will necessarily end up with the burden while the politicians shirk the responsibility as ours do on a regular schedule. In a democratic society with fair elections the voters will get the government they themselves chose. If the political leaders opt for the games in order to achieve national prestige knowing that the bill will come after the cheering ends then the ultimate responsibility rests on the voters who placed them there. The decaying venues and the financial liabilities are of their own making and I have little sympathy for them.

FIFA, the organization that directs the World Cup makes the Olympic folks look like a girl scout troop. But I hold my nose and enjoy the games after all the bribing is done.

 

[Coug95man2]

I find the whole political scene disturbing. The horrific acts by NK are well documented. however the childish temper tantrums by trump are also terrifying. We have two children who seemingly would risk nuclear war to satisfy a whim or to save face. This topic is way off as i said in the beginning and this forum is not a place to wage a political discussion which will only go around in circles. There will not be any winners and losers.And no i do not think that trump and pence are great people. I can hardly wait for the next election when they will be booted out of office

Agree on quite a bit here, Elc. Only specific point I'll make is I said, "compared to NK". No Trump isn't great. But compared to NK... Yes, yes he is.

 

[Coug95man2]

Those cheerleaders that are so... cute? Back in 2002, at the Busan games, they were there. When the cheerleaders went back "home", 21 of them were arrested. For talking about what they saw in South Korea. Here's the state dept. report that outlines this, and more:
https://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2006/78777.htm

 

[Loyal Coug]

Agree on quite a bit here, Elc. Only specific point I'll make is I said, "compared to NK". No Trump isn't great. But compared to NK... Yes, yes he is.

Beat me to that one 95!
"Trump/Pence are "great people" compared to what NK stands for. I think you'd agree, if you were honest."
Yep, I agree. Also:
Trump/Pence are great people compared to the Third Reich.
Trump/Pence are great people compared to Stalin.
Trump/Pence are great people compared to Satan. I think......

Just sayin.......

 

[Coug95man2]

Beat me to that one 95!
"Trump/Pence are "great people" compared to what NK stands for. I think you'd agree, if you were honest."
Yep, I agree. Also:
Trump/Pence are great people compared to the Third Reich.
Trump/Pence are great people compared to Stalin.
Trump/Pence are great people compared to Satan. I think......

Just sayin.......

I can promise, you guys are way more partisan than I. I can see good things coming out of this administration. The same way I can see good things that came out of Obama's. But Trump is a train wreck. I know many, many people that voted for him and they agree. But they'd vote for him again, too. That's how horrid the choices were.

 

[Loyal Coug]

I can promise, you guys are way more partisan than I. I can see good things coming out of this administration. The same way I can see good things that came out of Obama's. But Trump is a train wreck. I know many, many people that voted for him and they agree. But they'd vote for him again, too. That's how horrid the choices were.

Well thank you for that 95. Discovering that you actually know (and thus speak to) many, many people who voted for Trump made me throw up in my mouth, right before I blocked you. The fact that they would vote for him again made me swallow it in hopes of choking to death.

 

[Coug95man2]

Well thank you for that 95. Discovering that you actually know (and thus speak to) many, many people who voted for Trump made me throw up in my mouth, right before I blocked you. The fact that they would vote for him again made me swallow it in hopes of choking to death.

You're Welcome!!!

Block me?! After a great, civil discussion? Pansie. So much for tolerance, I guess.