Black? White? Stupid. Moronic member of the "Wannabe Tribe" exposed as white...."former" adjunct at Cheney.... Pretenders everywhere
Not ready for prime time
Not ready for prime time
OT: EWU caught up in phony claims by NAACP farce
- Thread starter SCglory
- Start date
It's seeming more and more likely that Dolezal is some sort of pathological liar, with her claims being refuted almost within the hour by her folks. Whether she is aware of her self-deception is another matter. Say, someone identifies himself as a "professional health care worker" even though he is not...is this merely self-deception, made possible by the anonymity of the Internet, or a desire to be one, to be part of a group that helps people, perhaps one that had rejected him earlier? More of a cry for help?
But the serious issue that underlies all this is the stupidity of trying to use color or "race" as the defining characteristic of a person. The Dolezals of the world are the product of that. She probably just wanted to "belong" somewhere and found refuge in her lie.
But the serious issue that underlies all this is the stupidity of trying to use color or "race" as the defining characteristic of a person. The Dolezals of the world are the product of that. She probably just wanted to "belong" somewhere and found refuge in her lie.
Don't see too many people biting on this one, man. Just a little too off-topic of WSU sports...
Don't see too many people biting on this one, man. Just a little too off-topic of WSU sports...
All I know is I keep thinking about Steve Martin in The Jerk when ever I read anything about this women. "Navin R. Johnson. Die Gas Pumper."
Better for an off-topic or political board but from what I have seen/heard on Dolezal when I boil things down I don't the issue. If she is doing good work who cares if she is technically not of color? I really think EWU and the NAACP should have stood behind her and at the very least not rushed to judgement.Don't see too many people biting on this one, man. Just a little too off-topic of WSU sports...
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Alrighty. I'm in.
Sorry man. My wife works in the non-profit world. The fallout from this lady is pretty harsh and what she has done for the community is falling apart. If she "identifies" with the black world, great. But don't lie. We all lie (whomever says they don't lie, is a liar) but we don't construct more lies, more false pretenses to prop up the ongoing deception, like living in a TeePee when she was young, hunting with a bow/arrow for sustenance, living in Africa, she actually told people a local black man was her father… There's even some insinuation out there that the nooses that were in her front yard (police reports of 3 incidents even though she publicly says, I think 6) were planted there by her… Mellissa Luck from KXLY outlines her perspective very, very well.
http://www.kxly.com/news/spokane-news/rachel-dolezal-the-story-behind-the-story/33608002
Identify with whatever culture you wish… I personally LOVE the Native American culture. I don't lie about BEING a Native American, to the detriment of that community. Like I said, we all lie. But the damage she has done is inexcusable.
If people want to identify with different cultures and whatnot, then I identify with Starlord. Would identifying with Han Solo be a better reference?
Except this woman constructs flat out lies about hate crimes purportedly commited against her.
If she chooses to 'identify' as whatever, that's fine. Just don't accuse those who you perceive as the oppressors based on false/trumped up evidence. That's no better than Mississippi Burning tactics.
If she chooses to 'identify' as whatever, that's fine. Just don't accuse those who you perceive as the oppressors based on false/trumped up evidence. That's no better than Mississippi Burning tactics.
The lies are a problem but as Dolezal indicated today I think this is a lot more complex than just identifying with another race. Like most things controversial we rush to judgement without knowing all the facts. I don't claim to know all the facts but from your post you don't seem to know all the facts either. Maybe the insinuations etc. prove out but until they do I will reserve judgement.
Got it… I never got into Starlord. Han Solo, ok. Superman, the era when he met Lucille Ball?! Hell yeah.
Another problem here is that various institutions permit -- and, indeed, in certain cases require -- doling out benefits like admissions preferences, preferences in scholarship awards, government contracts, preferences in promotions, and preferences in hiring -- on the basis of race.
Is it OK for someone like Dolezal to claim to be a member of one of the preferred groups for these purposes?
Sure, you might say, the number of people willing to go to the lengths of Dolazal is few. I think that's defensible. She had to go to great lengths with respect to her hair, skin tone, and so on, and "portray" herself in a certain manner around the same people whom she previously had told that she was "black" during the hiring process.
What if we're just talking about checking a box on a college or job application, though? Is it OK for someone to "believe" they are black and to claim as such in these contexts? I don't think so.
My preferred solution would be to stop discriminating on the basis of race. I hope we can get to that point as a society.
Is it OK for someone like Dolezal to claim to be a member of one of the preferred groups for these purposes?
Sure, you might say, the number of people willing to go to the lengths of Dolazal is few. I think that's defensible. She had to go to great lengths with respect to her hair, skin tone, and so on, and "portray" herself in a certain manner around the same people whom she previously had told that she was "black" during the hiring process.
What if we're just talking about checking a box on a college or job application, though? Is it OK for someone to "believe" they are black and to claim as such in these contexts? I don't think so.
My preferred solution would be to stop discriminating on the basis of race. I hope we can get to that point as a society.
No one will ever know all the facts, Ferris. That is where, you decide if something is important enough for you to investigate, look into it, find all the facts you can, and move along. But don't ever pretend you'll know all the facts. If it isn't important enough to you, that's great, too. But I will say, I think I have a bit of a window into the fallout than most. I do see how this is affecting things, probably more than most. Just because I don't post, doesn't mean anything. And this conversation can go to many, many points. But the crux of my "judgement" is she is not "insane". She obviously has issues but not insane. She knew what she was doing, for whatever motivation. And so I'm strictly looking at the results of her actions. Even if her motivations were pure, the lies are tearing her work down, certainly jading this community (to an extent) to the cause, and making Spokane/CDA and our region a national/international joke.
And the ultimate "specific issue" that I have problems with is, there is STRONG evidence that she planted the nooses that were on her porch, that over the span of years she reported to the police in CDA and then when she moved to Spokane. She used North Idaho and Spokane's ugly past as a way to position herself or her cause or maybe just to get attention, while making our area look worse and uglier. Whatever her motivation for this, it was for her gain. And because she did this over the span of years, it shows that she had time and cause to think about it, mull it over, etc. etc. And because of that specific issue, I have a real problem and it's the crux of my "judgement". IMHO, she just gave the racist a$$ho!es all over the nation, all over the world, more justification for their ignorance.
You might feel differently about all of this and that's great. That's called individuality and diversity. We all react differently to different things. That, by the way, is also why it's OK for some to react differently than others. Some judge, some won't. That's beautiful, IMHO.
But I will say this, 425… The transgender community has already paved this road, both in society and legally. They were born, and are genetically, one sex. They believe they are the opposite. They have many, many rights just because they "believe" their genetic code doesn't match what's in their minds.
I think there are likely problems going back to when she was with her parents...on both sides. Somethings strikes me wrong with her parents as well. I think it is probably a dysfunctional family. But, it is only an opinion based on not much.
There are things that happen all over the US, the world, that are in the news cycle but soon forgotten. Any affects of this will be short term.
Agree on the parents but there is so little info out there on them. And when it comes to "closed door" situations, there is a handful of people that would know the truth on that stuff and that's all… For all involved, I'd hope nothing too ugly regarding this. Brother seems pretty normal with no comments about growing up weird or any incidents.
While I hope you'r right on the affects, I don't know if that will be true. This really shook things up, in Spokane.
If all of this were so easy to understand or judge. I'd rather someone portray themselves as being someone of a different race in order to help protect than someone claim to be a someone to be a supremacist (for instance) and actually just turn out to be nothing more than a cold-hearted chicken sh!t. There's no harm here as far as I'm concerned. I'm no more appalled here than I was to my own reaction to being exposed to something like Schnidler's List. These questions ( i.e. race equality) sometimes turn from sympathy into empathy- in which someone takes an action as opposed to a quick word before they meet their buddies at the bar.
Of course we will never know all the facts but right now most of the reaction are based on anger, hurt, feeling duped, fear, or whatever. Even though I don't see the big deal this is being made out to be I have a lot of questions running through my mind that really aren't being addressed because all the focus is on Dolezal's actions. Not much being asked of EWU and the Spokane NAACP. The parents as has been commented on sure don't appear to support their daughter. Most importantly to me why 'Race (definitely still) Matters'? So many questions I want asked instead of the constant need to make it go away because of anger, embarrassment, or it "makes us look bad".
Per usual the witch hunt has begun and the end point most likely won't lead to bringing people together. More polarization, no greater understanding of each other and what makes us tick. That's the sad truth in my mind at the moment. Just another lost opportunity most likely rolls on by.
See, that's where I think you've jumped to conclusions… I never said anything of race. Although the premise of the lie is about race, I, personally, don't give a rip if she wants to be black. I personally don't care if she thinks she's white…. or green or purple (UmpaLumpa style). Our minds are so malleable, we can be and do whatever we want. But to excuse the wrong behavior in light of some odd perception of race relations… not the point at all. I don't care if you're black, white, or anything else, you don't lie to me. That IS wrong. Especially when you are representing thousands of people. Integrity is important to everyone. It's on a pedestal for someone that is representing a large group, or should be I guess. And to the extent she lied and covered up her lies with more lies, which is undeniable fact, is extraordinarily wrong. I'm not jumping up and down on this issue, I don't know that anyone could say she's a bad person because we don't know her in any personal level. Have some of us met her? Possible but that doesn't mean we know her.
But to go along with what you are saying, I would hope she would get herself together, I hope she gets a second chance in the community but I don't believe she should or will, get that with the NAACP, Eastern and some of the smaller things she's been involved in. She obviously has a lot of drive, considering what she's done in Spokane in such a short time. Her work she's done apart from this, has been good. She needs to get herself together and strive on.
But the same way we'll never know the truth, I don't know what kind of opportunity you or I have to "come together". We'll never know the facts so what kind of discussion should we have? … Regardless, you have that opportunity right now but instead you wish to throw stones at me regarding race and "missed opportunities of understanding"? Come on, Ferris. This is a great opportunity. Nothing is missed unless you walk away. It's off-season and people seem OK with this thread existing.
I know you didn't bring up race. Those are some of the questions I am interested in. I originally only commented on her work and we seem to agree that from what we know it's been "good". We also seem to agree this is a great opportunity that hopefully won't pass.
I wasn't throwing stones at you Coug95. We just have a different take on this and currently come to different conclusions. Personally, I need to know more than what's come out to date before I come to some of the conclusions around integrity, etc. I would rather allow time do the work for the full story to come out. Just me and just my opinion. Nothing more.
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The NAACP has no problem with employing people of other racial backgrounds. They, like most large non-profits, do have serious and well-founded concerns when a local leader cannot speak without lies tumbling out of her mouth. Integrity is the issue, not race.
Yes, they did. But did they do "due diligence" to find out if her resume matched reality during her hire? Did Eastern? How far back should an employer look? That's the part that I find fault in these "employers".
They supported her because they weren't throwing her under the bus. But as soon as it hit news further than local (i.e. Seattle and beyond) they couldn't take that collateral damage. That's shouldn't be surprising. It certainly shouldn't be surprising to her. This hit international news. They couldn't wrangle those cats...
Just a viewpoint without any direct personal knowledge of the situation.
In my work in SoCal I see many people who work in industries that are heavily peer regulated to a strict and unforgiving if rather arbitrary Political Correctness standard. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you are no PC Police. They may not be sworn officers of PC, but they certainly consider themselves to be deputized. So I apologize in advance for being rather cynical about how it is OK to question the motives of people who belong to some tribes because they don't carry PC teflon, whereas others carry PC protection due to the tribe to which they belong and cannot really be questioned about some topics unless their offense is extreme. At which point the self-deputized PC Police jump all over them…essentially turning on someone they had previously regarded as a brother or sister in the cause, because the cause has been embarrassed.
The NAACP in Spokane is just the latest example. Remember, Bill Clinton's tribe defended him in the Monica Lewinski "affair" and Ollie North's tribe defended him in Iran/Contra.
I'm kind of split on how to view Ms. Dolezal. The cynic in me says she lied to further her status within her chosen tribe, even at the ultimate cost of both her and her tribe's reputation. The more compassionate side of me suspects that there are some underlying mental issues. The two possibilities are not mutually exclusive. Sometimes people get so caught up in their lies that they choose to believe them themselves, and ultimately re-write their personal history so effectively that they actually believe it. At this point, my impression is that Ms. Dolezal is some kind of combination of all of the above. I will say one thing for her, though. Though this situation appears absurd on its face, it has prompted some useful discussion about what it means to identify with a group, particularly one which typically has some physical or racial requirement. I've heard some thoughtful discussion around the water cooler about this incident, and while nobody likes or supports a liar, I'll be surprised if at some point there isn't some underlying mental illness. I tend toward forgiveness, while acknowledging the damage caused. As they say, Denial is a nice place to visit, but you can't live there. And it appears that Ms. Dolezal has been living there for quite a while.
In my work in SoCal I see many people who work in industries that are heavily peer regulated to a strict and unforgiving if rather arbitrary Political Correctness standard. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you are no PC Police. They may not be sworn officers of PC, but they certainly consider themselves to be deputized. So I apologize in advance for being rather cynical about how it is OK to question the motives of people who belong to some tribes because they don't carry PC teflon, whereas others carry PC protection due to the tribe to which they belong and cannot really be questioned about some topics unless their offense is extreme. At which point the self-deputized PC Police jump all over them…essentially turning on someone they had previously regarded as a brother or sister in the cause, because the cause has been embarrassed.
The NAACP in Spokane is just the latest example. Remember, Bill Clinton's tribe defended him in the Monica Lewinski "affair" and Ollie North's tribe defended him in Iran/Contra.
I'm kind of split on how to view Ms. Dolezal. The cynic in me says she lied to further her status within her chosen tribe, even at the ultimate cost of both her and her tribe's reputation. The more compassionate side of me suspects that there are some underlying mental issues. The two possibilities are not mutually exclusive. Sometimes people get so caught up in their lies that they choose to believe them themselves, and ultimately re-write their personal history so effectively that they actually believe it. At this point, my impression is that Ms. Dolezal is some kind of combination of all of the above. I will say one thing for her, though. Though this situation appears absurd on its face, it has prompted some useful discussion about what it means to identify with a group, particularly one which typically has some physical or racial requirement. I've heard some thoughtful discussion around the water cooler about this incident, and while nobody likes or supports a liar, I'll be surprised if at some point there isn't some underlying mental illness. I tend toward forgiveness, while acknowledging the damage caused. As they say, Denial is a nice place to visit, but you can't live there. And it appears that Ms. Dolezal has been living there for quite a while.
I probably tend to agree with much of what your saying. The "middle ground" is usually the more solid.
There are obvious issues with the family. Tuesday night, on NBC, she stated that there is no proof that her parents that raised her are her biological parents... No one watched. The birth certificate proves nothing in her eyes. So... That seems like an odd way to escalate this whole thing. Is she trying to keep herself and her 2 kids in this media circus? I thought the pictures of her when she was younger looked very much like a younger portrait of her mother...
Here's my ultimate question when it comes to things like this. Where do we draw a line in society of, " your just plain weird, enjoying the limelight at the expense of others, selfish, selfish, selfish." and "Whoa Nellie! She needs help but we can't force it. We should just feel badly for her and sing Kumbiah"? I say both of those as a light joke in a serious matter but you get my point of the two extremes...What reaction from society will help HER the most? Everyone is an individual but when it comes to group reactions, it sure seems like some want us all to react the same way...
Dolezal filed a lawsuit against her parents. They refused to comment about it when asked. I don't think the timing of them outing her is a coincidence.
Just FYI- my parents are in Europe and this was international news for at least two days.
That would be truly sad if a lawyer talked this into a parents head as a good way to discredit her potential testimony or even worse, they thought of it and acted on it, all on their own… What a crazy world we live in. Sad.
Also, the family dynamic is waaaaay different than the norm, here. More and more things keep coming out. One of her "sons", Izaiah, is actually Ms. Dolezal's brother. Izaiah is actually a boy her parents adopted as an infant back in the 1990's, presumably when they were living in Africa. Now she's claiming (or was) that he is/was HER son.
Yeah, I have friends up and down central and South America… they keep poking fun at me/Spokane over this. Almost daily...
I suspect that the parents and Dolezal have nothing akin to a normal parent-child relationship. So, it's not like any relationship was being damaged. And to be fair, if she sued them, it's game-on.
?? She lied on numerous applications and interviews. She is an inveterate liar and deceiver. So there's that.
Is it true that Obama is a mulatto? Discuss......(and you can see the PC police emerge too)
