Over-Under on Screen Passes

[spongeandshoot]

Would be curious to know how many lateral passes there were. Probably 20.

Just like the spring game.

Dickert should have just kept the offensive coaches we had in place.

We had a nice thing going and some momentum...but instead we have a young defensive coach going out and hiring his first offensive staff with few coaching contacts.

And regarding the play calling, it's almost as if Morris likes going away from what works.

Jenkins shredding the D? Let's not give him the ball anymore.

2 for 2 on long balls including a touchdown? Let's scrap that shit and throw some more screen and swing passes when the defender is waiting to jack up our receivers for a 2 yd loss. I am surprised there were no fumbles on those plays.

I don't get it. I mean he has some nice plays he has drawn up. Loved those qb draws...but for F sakes..I don't get why he loves the lateral pass so much... especially after it keeps getting blown up

That stuff works in high school. I think it was Sellas who said our new Delta Tau Chi name is WR Screen U. Hard to disagree.

 

[BiggsCoug]

They are throwing what the defense gives them. Let’s be honest, why wouldn’t the defense give them screens and swing passes?

The air raid is called poorly. Im ready for the Texas Tech influence on WSU to be done.

 

[COUGinNCW]

They are throwing what the defense gives them. Let’s be honest, why wouldn’t the defense give them screens and swing passes?

The air raid is called poorly. Im ready for the Texas Tech influence on WSU to be done.

That’s the problem with watching on TV and bitching about not throwing the ball downfield. No way of knowing if those passes are open or not. I suspect they aren’t for the most part when teams can get pressure rushing 3 or 4.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

There is an unhealthy symbiosis going on with the offense right now, and unless there is some sort of mental or physical breakthrough, someone is going to have to go.

The OL struggles to provide decent passpro, so Morris sends in quick no-read passing plays.

Quick no-read passing plays aren't developing CW and allowing him the opportunity to stand in a pocket and make reads, so on the rare chance he does get the opportunity he's unskilled.

Broken plays are about 50% of the pass plays now, and you can tell the entire O is sick of it - the WRs aren't running comebacks, CW isn't rolling to where his WRs are, the OL looks lost because there actually was a pocket but CW bailed because of all the other times there wasn't a pocket - complete chaos and dysfunction.

Morris, like his mentor(s), absolutely refuses to run the ball for effect. In fact, the run plays at this point are almost a detriment to the offense, as they are not called to gain yards but to seemingly trick the defense. When a standard run turns into your "trick play", you have issues with your scheme.

Again, as was mentioned - defenses will give you all the screens and check downs you want; its how you stop the AR. Now we can't even execute those for positive yards. Our WRs are lousy at blocking, which should be a staple of the AR (WR's coaches???).

CJD heed my words (though borrowed) - you're either coaching it or allowing it to happen.

 

[Cougini5591]

There are 2 factors that seem pretty obvious on what is "limiting" our offense.

1) We don't have a good line

2) We don't have good running backs

I'm giving Dickert a LITTLE bit of slack here because this really is year #1 for him, but I also have the "c'mon man" as it should be known to every coach out there that big time football needs big time O-linemen.

It's obvious we didn't focus on the Oline.

We can bitch about play calling forever ever, but having a GREAT O-line can make any offense function better

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

There are 2 factors that seem pretty obvious on what is "limiting" our offense.

1) We don't have a good line

2) We don't have good running backs

I'm giving Dickert a LITTLE bit of slack here because this really is year #1 for him, but I also have the "c'mon man" as it should be known to every coach out there that big time football needs big time O-linemen.

It's obvious we didn't focus on the Oline.

We can bitch about play calling forever ever, but having a GREAT O-line can make any offense function better

I'd settle for a good OL. Shit, I'd even settle for ok or average.

I'm not 100% sold on the kids being turds, and I think its unfair to label a single kid as such, let alone an entire unit. That being said, I'm not quite sure how the coaching can be so bad that an entire unit looks in complete disarray a majority of the time, but apparently the Cougs have figured it out.

 

[Cougini5591]

I'd settle for a good OL. Shit, I'd even settle for ok or average.

I'm not 100% sold on the kids being turds, and I think its unfair to label a single kid as such, let alone an entire unit. That being said, I'm not quite sure how the coaching can be so bad that an entire unit looks in complete disarray a majority of the time, but apparently the Cougs have figured it out.

If I made it feel like I'm calling the kids turds... I'm super sorry. There is ZERO truth to that.

The turd is who quits the team at halftime because he's not happy. Zero man points for anyone who makes it worse for his teammates. The turd is who makes up false battery/harassment statements. The turd I'd someone who takes a scholarship spot and doesn't bust his ass 365 to become his best and earn what was given to him.

We have experienced lots of turds for players, but I don't feel like anyone hits that level on who played last night.

 

[dgibbons]

Would be curious to know how many lateral passes there were. Probably 20.

Just like the spring game.

Dickert should have just kept the offensive coaches we had in place.

We had a nice thing going and some momentum...but instead we have a young defensive coach going out and hiring his first offensive staff with few coaching contacts.

And regarding the play calling, it's almost as if Morris likes going away from what works.

Jenkins shredding the D? Let's not give him the ball anymore.

2 for 2 on long balls including a touchdown? Let's scrap that shit and throw some more screen and swing passes when the defender is waiting to jack up our receivers for a 2 yd loss. I am surprised there were no fumbles on those plays.

I don't get it. I mean he has some nice plays he has drawn up. Loved those qb draws...but for F sakes..I don't get why he loves the lateral pass so much... especially after it keeps getting blown up

That stuff works in high school. I think it was Sellas who said our new Delta Tau Chi name is WR Screen U. Hard to disagree.

Same as the O/U for you complaining about them.

 

[BiggsCoug]

That’s the problem with watching on TV and bitching about not throwing the ball downfield. No way of knowing if those passes are open or not. I suspect they aren’t for the most part when teams can get pressure rushing 3 or 4.

A few options:

1) They are open and he is refusing not to throw them. If this is true, bench him.

2) They are open and he was told by his coach not to throw them. If this is true, bench the coach.

3) They aren’t open.

Which do you think it is?

 

[BiggsCoug]

There are 2 factors that seem pretty obvious on what is "limiting" our offense.

1) We don't have a good line

2) We don't have good running backs

I'm giving Dickert a LITTLE bit of slack here because this really is year #1 for him, but I also have the "c'mon man" as it should be known to every coach out there that big time football needs big time O-linemen.

It's obvious we didn't focus on the Oline.

We can bitch about play calling forever ever, but having a GREAT O-line can make any offense function better

You talking about the back that went 13 carries for 130 and another 55 in receiving against SC?

That back sucks?

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

If I made it feel like I'm calling the kids turds... I'm super sorry. There is ZERO truth to that.

The turd is who quits the team at halftime because he's not happy. Zero man points for anyone who makes it worse for his teammates. The turd is who makes up false battery/harassment statements. The turd I'd someone who takes a scholarship spot and doesn't bust his ass 365 to become his best and earn what was given to him.

We have experienced lots of turds for players, but I don't feel like anyone hits that level on who played last night.

I didn't mean to imply that you were, just that there is a slippery slope with unsaid words when being critical of a team.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[COUGinNCW]

You talking about the back that went 13 carries for 130 and another 55 in receiving against SC?

That back sucks?

Watson Is solid as well. Depth is another conversation.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Watson Is solid as well. Depth is another conversation.

How many WSU backs have ripped off 185 yards of offense against SC?

“Solid” doesn’t do that against SC.

I expect Jenkins already has NIL offers from Big 12 schools.

 

[COUGinNCW]

How many WSU backs have ripped off 185 yards of offense against SC?

“Solid” doesn’t do that against SC.

I expect Jenkins already has NIL offers from Big 12 schools.

Was referring to Watson as solid. Jenkins has the “it” factor but I don’t see him holding up to being a feature back behind a suspect O line at his size.

 

[spongeandshoot]

Same as the O/U for you complaining about them.

Oh look...dgibbons likes screen passes that continually go for -2 yards!

I see that you are still triggered anytime coaches get criticized.

I also see that you have your cheerleading costume on just in time for Halloween. Good job little fella.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Was referring to Watson as solid. Jenkins has the “it” factor but I don’t see him holding up to being a feature back behind a suspect O line at his size.

I think it’s pass protection where he gets clobbered. Running the ball he can run away.

 

[95coug]

That’s the problem with watching on TV and bitching about not throwing the ball downfield. No way of knowing if those passes are open or not. I suspect they aren’t for the most part when teams can get pressure rushing 3 or 4.

Most of those plays, Ward doesn’t even look downfield. It’s a snap throw to the sideline. The receivers aren’t open downfield because they haven’t even gone downfield. And neither has the defense.

 

[702coug]

Screen passes are one thing, backward passes to Ferrell 10 yards behind the LOS with no blockers is inexcusable. And that happened more than once.

 

[random soul]

Deciding to not even bother with the pretense of a running game is making me twitch. To me the whole point of spending scholarships on a tight end/h-back position is to make it easier to mix the running game into the existing system. At a certain point, and I think this offense has reached it, play action actually helps the pass rush because nobody's buying it, but going through the motions slows down the quarterback's ability to get rid of the ball. So now you're asking an inexperienced offensive line with guys playing out of position to protect FOR LONGER, against rushers who will ignore the ball fake. And then ask the quarterback to find someone open after he gets his head around, only to have a rusher in his lap, with nobody in the back seven up at the line because nobody bought the fake. And the solution, apparently, is incessant screens, which don't work because even when they aren't expected, nobody can sustain a block long enough for the ball carrier to pop through the other side. Bell was the one guy we had with the jets to make that go in spite of the blocking, but he's gone now.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Deciding to not even bother with the pretense of a running game is making me twitch. To me the whole point of spending scholarships on a tight end/h-back position is to make it easier to mix the running game into the existing system. At a certain point, and I think this offense has reached it, play action actually helps the pass rush because nobody's buying it, but going through the motions slows down the quarterback's ability to get rid of the ball. So now you're asking an inexperienced offensive line with guys playing out of position to protect FOR LONGER, against rushers who will ignore the ball fake. And then ask the quarterback to find someone open after he gets his head around, only to have a rusher in his lap, with nobody in the back seven up at the line because nobody bought the fake. And the solution, apparently, is incessant screens, which don't work because even when they aren't expected, nobody can sustain a block long enough for the ball carrier to pop through the other side. Bell was the one guy we had with the jets to make that go in spite of the blocking, but he's gone now.

The base run in the air raid offense should be draw. RB draw, QB draw, lead qb draw. Add zone, counter and read option. There is your run game.

The prob with air raid play callers is they refuse to be true to their rules. 5 in the box means run. They throw it anyways.

If the offense is going to get better it will be because Ward ran the ball. Designed run or tuck and run when no one is open. It doesn’t matter. He has to move the chains and keep drives going.

 

[Cougini5591]

The base run in the air raid offense should be draw. RB draw, QB draw, lead qb draw. Add zone, counter and read option. There is your run game.

The prob with air raid play callers is they refuse to be true to their rules. 5 in the box means run. They throw it anyways.

If the offense is going to get better it will be because Ward ran the ball. Designed run or tuck and run when no one is open. It doesn’t matter. He has to move the chains and keep drives going.

I have almost ZERO doubt that we could have had Cam spread it and QB draw for 30 yards on 5 or 6 attempts.

It would have been our win.

Their defense would've changed completely.

It was like we were going against UCLA when they put 5 on the front back in late 90's... early 2000's

 

[random soul]

The base run in the air raid offense should be draw. RB draw, QB draw, lead qb draw. Add zone, counter and read option. There is your run game.

The prob with air raid play callers is they refuse to be true to their rules. 5 in the box means run. They throw it anyways.

If the offense is going to get better it will be because Ward ran the ball. Designed run or tuck and run when no one is open. It doesn’t matter. He has to move the chains and keep drives going.

How is there no read option built into this? It baffles me. The scheme ALLOWS you to not block the play side defensive end.

 

[BiggsCoug]

I have almost ZERO doubt that we could have had Cam spread it and QB draw for 30 yards on 5 or 6 attempts.

It would have been our win.

Their defense would've changed completely.

It was like we were going against UCLA when they put 5 on the front back in late 90's... early 2000's

The lack of a run game kills the pass game. And by run game I dont mean yards. I mean attempts too. If your top 2 backs are out and your 3rd stringer isn’t ready, Ward runs the ball.

There are 2 kids buried on this roster that showed more than capable game film in HS to help the offense. They are Jedzilla types. If Morris felt like his job was on the line, now is the time to get them involved. Or don’t.

Like Dick said in his post game presser, no one is coming to help. He’s right. There are no trades. There is no waiver wire. But if you need blocks, you should prob have evaluated the kids and know what they have and haven’t done.

 

[BiggsCoug]

How is there no read option built into this? It baffles me. The scheme ALLOWS you to not block the play side defensive end.

Zone read option when you don’t actually run option is option fraud. It ruins the run game. No one is fooled. It’s lazy coaching. It is a lazy or dummy coach saying “ah, this’ll be good enough.” Rather than putting in some more work and developing a run system, Morris drew up more pass plays.

Is there an air raid coach in America that thinks run first? Or is it all a bunch of pass happy coaches milking schools for checks?

 

[mikalalas]

There are 2 factors that seem pretty obvious on what is "limiting" our offense.

1) We don't have a good line

2) We don't have good running backs

I'm giving Dickert a LITTLE bit of slack here because this really is year #1 for him, but I also have the "c'mon man" as it should be known to every coach out there that big time football needs big time O-linemen.

It's obvious we didn't focus on the Oline.

We can bitch about play calling forever ever, but having a GREAT O-line can make any offense function better

Point 1 is true. BUT MORRIS ISNT HELPING, and is HURTING, MAKING OL worse.

Point 2, is untrue.

Jenkins got A AWESOME 7.5 YARDS EACH OF 8 carries, which is AWESOMELY GOOD(for comparison, only Reuben Mays, Brousard, Jerome Harrison, etc, did that consistently good EACH running play, without runs of only getting 1,2,3, etc, yards, etc. Even James Williams, Borghi, Jamal Morrow, etc, only averaged 6.3 yards a carry compared to Jenkins 7.5 yards a carry. Now 8 carries is a small sample size, but in past games most of Jenkins carries were explosive, electric, when, IF given a chance. )

Also Jenkins and Watson have been great as receiving RB's. Both Jenkins, Watson have had BIG 37,39,40,43 yard BIG PLAY(S).

But despite that MORRIS STUPIDLY DOESNT CONTINUE TO HAND THE BALL OFF TO JENKINS.

THATS ON MORRIS. NOT ON JENKINS, RB'S

 

[mikalalas]

A few options:

1) They are open and he is refusing not to throw them. If this is true, bench him.

2) They are open and he was told by his coach not to throw them. If this is true, bench the coach.

3) They aren’t open.

Which do you think it is?

Combination of ALL 3 at various times, but collectively a combination of all 3 so far

 

[mikalalas]

You talking about the back that went 13 carries for 130 and another 55 in receiving against SC?

That back sucks?

And his Name is JENKINS.

And then in a future game vs Ore St he got 7.5 yards each of 8 carries, and had about a 30 to 43 yard reception, before MORRIS MORONICALLY DIDNT GIVE HIM ANY MORE CARRIES, TOUCHES, DIDNT GIVE HIM 14 TO 23 CARRIES, AND STUPIDLY ONLY GAVE HIM 8 CARRIES.

That would be like only giving 2,3,4 carries to Reuben Mays, after his 300+ yard game against Oregon.

 

[mikalalas]

Was referring to Watson as solid. Jenkins has the “it” factor but I don’t see him holding up to being a feature back behind a suspect O line at his size.

Jenkins can handle 13 to 15 to 17 to 19 carries per game. Morris is STUPIDLY only giving 3,4,5,6,7 carries per game to Jenkins on average.

 

[mikalalas]

Most of those plays, Ward doesn’t even look downfield. It’s a snap throw to the sideline. The receivers aren’t open downfield because they haven’t even gone downfield. And neither has the defense.

It's even worse then that. There was a play where the RB, HB, Slot WR, was the man in motion, first lined up just behind, to the right of the RT, TE, and then went in motion, ran at full speed, was WIDE OPEN, at the left sideline. Closest defender was 13 to 17 to 23 yards away, where if Cam Ward passes the ball to him, and he catches it, he gets 10 to 15 to 20 yards from it, and Cam instead throws a incomplete pass to a covered or double covered WR about 23 to 25 to 27 to 30 yards down field to the right of the right seam, to the right of the mid right hash mark.

And he was LASER LOCKED in the whole time, and there was PLENTY of time to throw. And all he had to do was turn his head left, see the wide open guy, and throw a semi accurate pass to him.

 

[mikalalas]

I have almost ZERO doubt that we could have had Cam spread it and QB draw for 30 yards on 5 or 6 attempts.

It would have been our win.

Their defense would've changed completely.

It was like we were going against UCLA when they put 5 on the front back in late 90's... early 2000's

Cam did about 3,4,5,6 draws, designed runs, scrambles, sneaks, general QB runs that averaged about 7+ yards each time.

It was about the ONE AND ONLY thing that either Can or Morris was doing, and then either Morris, or Cam or both STOPPED when they could, should have done about 2,3,4,5,6,7 more QB runs.

 

[mikalalas]

Zone read option when you don’t actually run option is option fraud. It ruins the run game. No one is fooled. It’s lazy coaching. It is a lazy or dummy coach saying “ah, this’ll be good enough.” Rather than putting in some more work and developing a run system, Morris drew up more pass plays.

Is there an air raid coach in America that thinks run first? Or is it all a bunch of pass happy coaches milking schools for checks?

SONNY DYKES, It's why he keeps winning with the Air Raid, because he truly uses every blade of grass on the field, via pass game, does a equal mix, balance of Shovel passes, screens, sideline swing passes, passes to TE's that are short, medium, long, passes to right, passes to left, passes to middle, passes to, up the seam, curls, slant, tosses, post, go routes, verts, passes to the slot, passes to penetrate zones, fades, long hand offs to RB's in the flat, etc.

Then he ALSO runs the ball just barely enough to keep defense honest. If there is 3,4,5 in Box he runs it. If there is 6 in box he passes. He does RB draw runs, quick hit RB runs, trap block,draw runs, counter gap runs, run to the left, runs to the right, runs up the middle, runs between guard and tackle, runs between center and guard, runs to outside of offtackle, does 5 to 7 to 10 to 13 QB runs, few of them design runs, sneaks, and some of them scramble runs.

And he recruits enough, 4 OL per year, and develops them well, recruits good QB's, RB's, WR's and develops, coaches them well.

That's the kind of offense that Dickert wants to run, that he calls the Coug Raid.

Unfortunately Morris doesn't or can't run such a offense, and unfortunately other then Sonny Dykes, there is not a lot of OC's that can or will run such a offense, and unlikely that Chun, Dickert get a OC that can run such a offense.
.
If Dickert wants such a offense, he might have to be both OC, HC.
.
Even tho Dickert was a DC, he was a receiver, a receiver coach, and helped OC run offense at a SMALL college, BEFORE he became a Defensive coach, DC, etc.

 

[CougEd]

SONNY DYKES, It's why he keeps winning with the Air Raid, because he truly uses every blade of grass on the field, via pass game, does a equal mix, balance of Shovel passes, screens, sideline swing passes, passes to TE's that are short, medium, long, passes to right, passes to left, passes to middle, passes to, up the seam, curls, slant, tosses, post, go routes, verts, passes to the slot, passes to penetrate zones, fades, long hand offs to RB's in the flat, etc.

Then he ALSO runs the ball just barely enough to keep defense honest. If there is 3,4,5 in Box he runs it. If there is 6 in box he passes. He does RB draw runs, quick hit RB runs, trap block,draw runs, counter gap runs, run to the left, runs to the right, runs up the middle, runs between guard and tackle, runs between center and guard, runs to outside of offtackle, does 5 to 7 to 10 to 13 QB runs, few of them design runs, sneaks, and some of them scramble runs.

And he recruits enough, 4 OL per year, and develops them well, recruits good QB's, RB's, WR's and develops, coaches them well.

That's the kind of offense that Dickert wants to run, that he calls the Coug Raid.

Unfortunately Morris doesn't or can't run such a offense, and unfortunately other then Sonny Dykes, there is not a lot of OC's that can or will run such a offense, and unlikely that Chun, Dickert get a OC that can run such a offense.
.
If Dickert wants such a offense, he might have to be both OC, HC.
.
Even tho Dickert was a DC, he was a receiver, a receiver coach, and helped OC run offense at a SMALL college, BEFORE he became a Defensive coach, DC, etc.

Didn’t Sonny Dykes get fired from Cal?

 

[mikalalas]

Didn’t Sonny Dykes get fired from Cal?

Yeah stupidly. He was ok, semi good, good, got better, etc, at Cal and then pulled a Nebraska(Aka stupidly firing a HC for only getting 5,6,7,8 wins in a season, when the HC has been winning 7,8,9,10 games a season.

Then Sony Dykes has done good at other stops as HC.

Now Sonny Dykes is, has 7,8,9 wins, UNBEATEN, UNDEFEATED, TOP 5 CALIBER TEAM, HC, MAKING A RUN AT THE PLAYOFFS, NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, HAS BEATEN, DEFEATED ABOUT 3,4,5,6 ABOUT TOP 10, 15, 20 RANKED TEAMS IN A ROW AT TCU TEXAS CHRISTIAN UNIVERSITY IN THE BIG 12.

 

[mikalalas]

How many WSU backs have ripped off 185 yards of offense against SC?

“Solid” doesn’t do that against SC.

I expect Jenkins already has NIL offers from Big 12 schools.

Jenkins should demand that WSU replace Morris with a OC that will RUN THE DAMN BALL, GIVE 13+ CARRIES TO THE STARTER, AND 5 TO 10 CARRIES TO THE QB, OR HE JENKINS WILL LEAVE, TAKE A NIL DEAL, ETC, IF WSU DOESNT DO HIS ULTIMATUM TO FORCE WSU TO DO THE RIGHT, SMART THING.

 

[longtimecoug]

The base run in the air raid offense should be draw. RB draw, QB draw, lead qb draw. Add zone, counter and read option. There is your run game.

The prob with air raid play callers is they refuse to be true to their rules. 5 in the box means run. They throw it anyways.

If the offense is going to get better it will be because Ward ran the ball. Designed run or tuck and run when no one is open. It doesn’t matter. He has to move the chains and keep drives going.

absolutely true, Leach was as guilty of thi as anyone, and Morris is doing the same thing

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Jenkins can handle 13 to 15 to 17 to 19 carries per game. Morris is STUPIDLY only giving 3,4,5,6,7 carries per game to Jenkins on average.

I would say emphatically that Jenkins CANNOT handle that many carries per game as the actual real-life scenario has demonstrated - injured! That's all I have to say about that