Overrated and underrated Coaches

[Loyal Coug]

These Rivals articles are pretty interesting. Overrated and underrated coaches.....

Couple of comments:
On the over rated list - Harbaugh. I always liked him. A no BS, throwback kind of coach. But he is underachieving at Michigan. Ferentz at Iowa. No s#1+. Guy has been there forever. When was their last Rose Bowl?

Underrated - Patterson, TCU. Yep. Loyal, long term guy. Could have been Price. Gundy, I like him too. Says F-you if you don't like his mullet. "I'm a man". Yes you are Mike.

Of course they have left out CML in the underrated section. Pretty big omission, but then again we are Cougs. We are used to it.

https://n.rivals.com/news/three-point-stance-overrated-coaches-heisman-hopefuls

https://n.rivals.com/news/three-point-stance-biggest-recent-commits-underrated-coaches-2019-no-1

 

[froropmkr72]

These Rivals articles are pretty interesting. Overrated and underrated coaches.....

Couple of comments:
On the over rated list - Harbaugh. I always liked him. A no BS, throwback kind of coach. But he is underachieving at Michigan. Ferentz at Iowa. No s#1+. Guy has been there forever. When was their last Rose Bowl?

Underrated - Patterson, TCU. Yep. Loyal, long term guy. Could have been Price. Gundy, I like him too. Says F-you if you don't like his mullet. "I'm a man". Yes you are Mike.

Of course they have left out CML in the underrated section. Pretty big omission, but then again we are Cougs. We are used to it.

https://n.rivals.com/news/three-point-stance-overrated-coaches-heisman-hopefuls

https://n.rivals.com/news/three-point-stance-biggest-recent-commits-underrated-coaches-2019-no-1

I'd take Shaw and Gundy out of the most underrated. They've had a great deal of press and accolades thrown their way. Pat Fitzgerald.....how is he not underrated?

 

[PeteTheChop]

Can anyone at WazzuWatch name 10 college football coaches better than Mike Leach?

I don't believe it can be done and remain accurate.

Underrated, overrated or whatever else — the Cougs absolutely have one of the Top 10 in his profession.

I hope Coach Leach retires at WSU.

 

[CougEd]

Can anyone at CougZone name 10 college football coaches better than Mike Leach?

I don't believe it can be done and remain accurate.

Underrated, overrated or whatever else — the Cougs absolutely have one of the Top 10 in his profession.

I hope Coach Leach retires at WSU.

What’s your criteria ? I say that only because I believe some coaches fit a particular school and program . Do I think Saban would do better at WSU than say leach? Not sure he would . But I wonder because of offensive scheme of leach would have saban success at Alabama .

Better coaches ? Say Saban , I hate to say Peterson , one could argue Chip, Frost is too new, urban... maybe . Harbaugh ? Maybe . Penn State coach? Yeah probably a top ten coach for our program... he is a great fit

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Can anyone at CougZone name 10 college football coaches better than Mike Leach?

I don't believe it can be done and remain accurate.

Underrated, overrated or whatever else — the Cougs absolutely have one of the Top 10 in his profession.

I hope Coach Leach retires at WSU.

Agree, Pete. I can come up with maybe a half dozen coaches who were brilliant even before they landed at a school with unlimited resources, and who also then managed to stay on top. No way can I name 10 that are still active. CML is as good in most respects as any of them, but does not have the "politics all the time" personality required to be in one of those football factories. I think he fits WSU and WSU fits him, and like you, I hope he retires here.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Agree, Pete. I can come up with maybe a half dozen coaches who were brilliant even before they landed at a school with unlimited resources, and who also then managed to stay on top. No way can I name 10 that are still active. CML is as good in most respects as any of them, but does not have the "politics all the time" personality required to be in one of those football factories. I think he fits WSU and WSU fits him, and like you, I hope he retires here.

Ditto here. Hope his politically incorrectness scares any suitors off for a while, and we can have a stellar season in a year or two.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Leach is definitely one of the great minds in college football, but his flaws go beyond his political correctness. At a school like WSU, we embrace him despite those flaws, but they are glaring in the minds of others. His flaws:

1) Poor clock management - Leach has gotten better at this but he has cost us games several times out of stubbornness.
2) Lack of offensive balance - We all know and love the air raid, but Leach has his tendencies and can become predictable at times. Our inability to reliably gain 1 or 2 yards was glaring last year.
3) Inconsistent discipline - there have been grumblings from some former players that Leach has not been consistent in his enforcement rules. His rules are set in stone, unless they aren't.
4) Political Correctness - this one is damning for many schools but gets ignored for the most part by WSU. This one is the reason that will eventually get him fired from WSU though. As long as items 1-3 aren't crippling the program, #4 gets overlooked, but if the day comes when we struggle for more than a couple seasons, the PC part is what gets him canned.

I think Leach is a good enough coach to make any legitimate "under-rated" list because it truly rare to see a 26-13 record at WSU in any three year period. Our three year run in 2001-03 and a run during WWII are the only three year periods that arguably meet or exceed our current run. This year will be the true test of Leach's abilities as a coach. If we win 8 games.....he should be conference coach of the year without a doubt. If we get to 10 wins, he should be national coach of the year. Let's hope it happens.

 

[425cougfan]

Leach is definitely one of the great minds in college football, but his flaws go beyond his political correctness. At a school like WSU, we embrace him despite those flaws, but they are glaring in the minds of others. His flaws:

1) Poor clock management - Leach has gotten better at this but he has cost us games several times out of stubbornness.
2) Lack of offensive balance - We all know and love the air raid, but Leach has his tendencies and can become predictable at times. Our inability to reliably gain 1 or 2 yards was glaring last year.
3) Inconsistent discipline - there have been grumblings from some former players that Leach has not been consistent in his enforcement rules. His rules are set in stone, unless they aren't.
4) Political Correctness - this one is damning for many schools but gets ignored for the most part by WSU. This one is the reason that will eventually get him fired from WSU though. As long as items 1-3 aren't crippling the program, #4 gets overlooked, but if the day comes when we struggle for more than a couple seasons, the PC part is what gets him canned.

I think Leach is a good enough coach to make any legitimate "under-rated" list because it truly rare to see a 26-13 record at WSU in any three year period. Our three year run in 2001-03 and a run during WWII are the only three year periods that arguably meet or exceed our current run. This year will be the true test of Leach's abilities as a coach. If we win 8 games.....he should be conference coach of the year without a doubt. If we get to 10 wins, he should be national coach of the year. Let's hope it happens.

The only one of these I'd take issue with is #3. Some sour grapes from a few kids, when measured against a guy who is known for having fairly rigid rules, and with plenty of examples of applying those rules in situations in which some coaches would have found a way not to over the course of 18 years as a head coach, leads me to think we may not have all the facts and/or that some may have misunderstood the metes and bounds of his "rules." The guy is a trained lawyer, after all, and there can be some nuance, especially when it comes to mere allegations vs. settled-on facts. Further, almost every coach finds a way to try to say they are consistent with their rules while bending them to allow to top players to still play. In any case, this isn't a flaw of his that any other school would focus on. Hell, flexibility with his rules would probably be a virtue at most "big" jobs.

The more substantive point I want to make here, as alluded to by others, is that Leach's best attributes seem to be an especially good fit at a school with a tough recruiting situation like WSU (and at Tech before it). He's demonstrably excellent at talent evaluation and seems pretty damned good, if imperfect, at hiring and developing quality assistants, rather than having to poach those who already are successful at the Power 5 level. He's also good at drilling an approach into his players that, in most situations, gets more production out of their talent than some other coaches seem to. Some of these attributes wouldn't even be relevant at a place like USC or Alabama, and others only arguably so. It's not clear some other "top" coaches could come in and win with WSU's talent or recruiting situation like he has, either.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

The only one of these I'd take issue with is #3. Some sour grapes from a few kids, when measured against a guy who is known for having fairly rigid rules, and with plenty of examples of applying those rules in situations in which some coaches would have found a way not to over the course of 18 years as a head coach, leads me to think we may not have all the facts and/or that some may have misunderstood the metes and bounds of his "rules." The guy is a trained lawyer, after all, and there can be some nuance, especially when it comes to mere allegations vs. settled-on facts. Further, almost every coach finds a way to try to say they are consistent with their rules while bending them to allow to top players to still play. In any case, this isn't a flaw of his that any other school would focus on. Hell, flexibility with his rules would probably be a virtue at most "big" jobs.

The more substantive point I want to make here, as alluded to by others, is that Leach's best attributes seem to be an especially good fit at a school with a tough recruiting situation like WSU (and at Tech before it). He's demonstrably excellent at talent evaluation and seems pretty damned good, if imperfect, at hiring and developing quality assistants, rather than having to poach those who already are successful at the Power 5 level. He's also good at drilling an approach into his players that, in most situations, gets more production out of their talent than some other coaches seem to. Some of these attributes wouldn't even be relevant at a place like USC or Alabama, and others only arguably so. It's not clear some other "top" coaches could come in and win with WSU's talent or recruiting situation like he has, either.

We're unlikely to find someone that's a better long term fit without a doubt.

 

[425cougfan]

We're unlikely to find someone that's a better long term fit without a doubt.

For sure. Also, while I did a bad job of it, one point I was trying to make is that you can't necessarily extrapolate from the job he's done at WSU to say that he could take a top-25 kind of facilities/recruiting/money situation (this is arguable, but let's say somewhere like Arizona State, or even UCLA) and, since he can take a 55th-70th ranked situation at WSU and get top 25-30 types of results, could get top-10 kinds of results at a top-25 kind of situation, nor could he necessarily take a top-15 kind of situation (e.g., Notre Dame, USC, Auburn) and have it consistently in the playoff, much less winning a natty. I believe he's particularly well-suited for the kind of situation he's in.

 

[dgibbons]

The only one of these I'd take issue with is #3. Some sour grapes from a few kids, when measured against a guy who is known for having fairly rigid rules, and with plenty of examples of applying those rules in situations in which some coaches would have found a way not to over the course of 18 years as a head coach, leads me to think we may not have all the facts and/or that some may have misunderstood the metes and bounds of his "rules." The guy is a trained lawyer, after all, and there can be some nuance, especially when it comes to mere allegations vs. settled-on facts. Further, almost every coach finds a way to try to say they are consistent with their rules while bending them to allow to top players to still play. In any case, this isn't a flaw of his that any other school would focus on. Hell, flexibility with his rules would probably be a virtue at most "big" jobs.

The more substantive point I want to make here, as alluded to by others, is that Leach's best attributes seem to be an especially good fit at a school with a tough recruiting situation like WSU (and at Tech before it). He's demonstrably excellent at talent evaluation and seems pretty damned good, if imperfect, at hiring and developing quality assistants, rather than having to poach those who already are successful at the Power 5 level. He's also good at drilling an approach into his players that, in most situations, gets more production out of their talent than some other coaches seem to. Some of these attributes wouldn't even be relevant at a place like USC or Alabama, and others only arguably so. It's not clear some other "top" coaches could come in and win with WSU's talent or recruiting situation like he has, either.

I agree on the "inconsistent discipline." Best way not to get in trouble is not to break the rules. The complainers are complaining about the sentence being too severe, not that they broke the rules to begin with.

The strength and conditioning has been outstanding during Leach's tenure. Hopefully that continues with Loscalzo going to the NFL.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Leach is definitely one of the great minds in college football, but his flaws go beyond his political correctness. At a school like WSU, we embrace him despite those flaws, but they are glaring in the minds of others. His flaws:

1) Poor clock management - Leach has gotten better at this but he has cost us games several times out of stubbornness.
I recall the New Mexico Bowl off the top of my head. What other games would make the adjective "several" accurate? Not to mention nobody who's been in the business as long as CML doesn't have a one or two slip away at some point. It's the nature of football.

2) Lack of offensive balance - We all know and love the air raid, but Leach has his tendencies and can become predictable at times. Our inability to reliably gain 1 or 2 yards was glaring last year.
WSU has been arguably the Pac-12's most consistent program over the last three regular seasons. This notion that CML could somehow win even more games if he would just run the ball more flies in the face of logic. Sometimes other teams are just better that day. It happens. IMO, Coach Leach is doing an amazing job of squeezing all the juice from his roster, which is all one can ask of any coach.

3) Inconsistent discipline - there have been grumblings from some former players that Leach has not been consistent in his enforcement rules. His rules are set in stone, unless they aren't.
So there have been "grumblings from former players" about double standards for discipline. First I've read of this. ANY links (and I'll even settle for a message board post or something else of similar origin)? I had some concerns about Daquawn Brown remaining on the roster after he punched a girl at a party a few years back, but YakiCoug said the newspaper reports didn't tell the whole story. So I'll defer on that situation as well as anything from the string of incidents in 2016.

4) Political Correctness - this one is damning for many schools but gets ignored for the most part by WSU. This one is the reason that will eventually get him fired from WSU though. As long as items 1-3 aren't crippling the program, #4 gets overlooked, but if the day comes when we struggle for more than a couple seasons, the PC part is what gets him canned.
First off, with all due respect Flatland, I don't accept Mike Leach will "eventually get fired" from WSU. Nor do I agree "the PC part" will be the cause as you write. The uproar over the doctored video of Pres. Obama that CML posted on Twitter has pretty much come and gone. If Coach Leach keeps winning and leading WSU to bowl games, he'll be running Cougar Football as long as he sees fit. If WSU struggles for "more than a couple seasons" he'll get nudged, pushed or kicked out the door like any other CFB coach in America who's not winning— and it won't be the result of fallout from things he did or said 5 or 10 or 15 years earlier.

I think Leach is a good enough coach to make any legitimate "under-rated" list because it truly rare to see a 26-13 record at WSU in any three year period. Our three year run in 2001-03 and a run during WWII are the only three year periods that arguably meet or exceed our current run. This year will be the true test of Leach's abilities as a coach. If we win 8 games.....he should be conference coach of the year without a doubt. If we get to 10 wins, he should be national coach of the year. Let's hope it happens.
Well said, Flatland. This is an 8-9 win team on the edge of the Top 25 if WSU gets "typical CML quarterback play" and the D-Line stays healthy and is reasonably effective.
See you in either El Paso or San Francisco on New Year's Eve!

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Some good comments.

First, Gib is right about the strength & conditioning. We have injuries, but our number of injuries is less than in previous regimes and seems to be better than many (if not most) of our opponents. This has been pretty consistent for several years. I have to attribute this to strength & conditioning, unless someone can show me some other factor.

Flat: first, 100% agreement with "If we win 8 games.....he should be conference coach of the year without a doubt. If we get to 10 wins, he should be national coach of the year. Let's hope it happens." The scary part for the rest of the league is that it is possible that he might do it! Hard to count out a Leach team on any given Saturday.

Flat & Pete: Regarding Flat's item 4. I think Flat's point was not that Leach will eventually be fired; rather, if items 1-3 took a prolonged dip, item 4 would be the straw that broke the camel's back. And in that, I think Flat is pretty clearly right. However, I agree with Pete, I don't see CML being fired...because I doubt that we'll see a prolonged slump in 1-3. Leach is simply too good at what is required to run a P5 program.

425: I agree with what I thought was your best point...you can't necessarily extrapolate Leach's results at TT and WSU to a completely different football factory setting with daily paparazzi on your lawn and mandatory appearances with hostile interviewers. I suspect that a big part of CML's success has been related to the places in which he is located...he is simply a great fit for Lubbock and Pullman. Not that he could not have done well in Los Angeles or South Bend...I think he pretty clearly could...but the quirks that we find lovable (or at least tolerable) in Lubbock or Pullman could easily escalate in Los Angeles or South Bend. So all in all, regardless of what he is capable of doing in those markets, I suspect that he is probably a happier camper in Pullman.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Leach is definitely one of the great minds in college football, but his flaws go beyond his political correctness. At a school like WSU, we embrace him despite those flaws, but they are glaring in the minds of others. His flaws:

1) Poor clock management - Leach has gotten better at this but he has cost us games several times out of stubbornness.
2) Lack of offensive balance - We all know and love the air raid, but Leach has his tendencies and can become predictable at times. Our inability to reliably gain 1 or 2 yards was glaring last year.
3) Inconsistent discipline - there have been grumblings from some former players that Leach has not been consistent in his enforcement rules. His rules are set in stone, unless they aren't.
4) Political Correctness - this one is damning for many schools but gets ignored for the most part by WSU. This one is the reason that will eventually get him fired from WSU though. As long as items 1-3 aren't crippling the program, #4 gets overlooked, but if the day comes when we struggle for more than a couple seasons, the PC part is what gets him canned.

I think Leach is a good enough coach to make any legitimate "under-rated" list because it truly rare to see a 26-13 record at WSU in any three year period. Our three year run in 2001-03 and a run during WWII are the only three year periods that arguably meet or exceed our current run. This year will be the true test of Leach's abilities as a coach. If we win 8 games.....he should be conference coach of the year without a doubt. If we get to 10 wins, he should be national coach of the year. Let's hope it happens.

His clock management skills, or lack thereof, are a thing of the past. I specifically remember all the infuriating idiosyncrasies of CML's first 2/3 seasons, and looking back I think they were part of his "plan" of breaking and remolding the team.

In case you don't remember he hardly ever went for FG's those first couple of seasons either. To be fair he didn't have a reliable kicker, but he passed on several opportunities to put 3 on the board, which was in my opinion his way of making the team put up or shut up. "4th and 3 from the 20, down by 7 with 6 minutes left... yeah, lets go for it."

But I digress, we all know and remember this. My point is, I don't think its a flaw of his, I think it was him doing him to what end, who knows?

As for the inability to get the short yardage - the run blocking sucked for the most part and last years team of WRs has to be one of the most inconsistent in recent memory. Rewatching that USC game... we should have beat them by 14 or more if the freaking WRs could catch a damn pass... x13 games last year.

Being PC... idgaf about that. What makes me cringe more is the "hey, whats good on netflix" tweet. Really coach? Seems way out of left field for him binging Stranger Things in front of the boob tube, but then again we are talking about "the strange one."

 

[Flatlandcoug]

We also lost against CU in 2012 despite having a late lead. We were leading 31-14 early in the fourth quarter against a CU team that would have gone 0-12 if not for the comeback win that day. Most of the fault lies with our defense, but with a 3 point lead deep in CU territory and under 4 minutes, we passed on 2nd and 3rd downs to leave just enough clock for the Buffaloes to take the lead with 6 seconds to go in the game.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

We also lost against CU in 2012 despite having a late lead. We were leading 31-14 early in the fourth quarter against a CU team that would have gone 0-12 if not for the comeback win that day. Most of the fault lies with our defense, but with a 3 point lead deep in CU territory and under 4 minutes, we passed on 2nd and 3rd downs to leave just enough clock for the Buffaloes to take the lead with 6 seconds to go in the game.

Who's fault was it for passing? According to Leach and all the quarterbacks, every play is a pass and its up the the qb to change it. That being said, should Leach (and did he) tell Connor (was it Halliday for that game?) to look for the run if its there to run time off? Probably, but we'll never know why what happened the way it did.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Who's fault was it for passing? According to Leach and all the quarterbacks, every play is a pass and its up the the qb to change it. That being said, should Leach (and did he) tell Connor (was it Halliday for that game?) to look for the run if its there to run time off? Probably, but we'll never know why what happened the way it did.

As mentioned above by you and by me in my original post on the topic, Leach has certainly had discussions with his QB's about this because the team has been much more effective at running out the clock in the past couple seasons. We'll never know if some of the odd time management decisions were part of Leach's plan or if he's just a crazy bastard but it hasn't been as big of a problem in recent years.

 

[dgibbons]

His clock management skills, or lack thereof, are a thing of the past. I specifically remember all the infuriating idiosyncrasies of CML's first 2/3 seasons, and looking back I think they were part of his "plan" of breaking and remolding the team.

In case you don't remember he hardly ever went for FG's those first couple of seasons either. To be fair he didn't have a reliable kicker, but he passed on several opportunities to put 3 on the board, which was in my opinion his way of making the team put up or shut up. "4th and 3 from the 20, down by 7 with 6 minutes left... yeah, lets go for it."

But I digress, we all know and remember this. My point is, I don't think its a flaw of his, I think it was him doing him to what end, who knows?

As for the inability to get the short yardage - the run blocking sucked for the most part and last years team of WRs has to be one of the most inconsistent in recent memory. Rewatching that USC game... we should have beat them by 14 or more if the freaking WRs could catch a damn pass... x13 games last year.

Being PC... idgaf about that. What makes me cringe more is the "hey, whats good on netflix" tweet. Really coach? Seems way out of left field for him binging Stranger Things in front of the boob tube, but then again we are talking about "the strange one."

I think the 4th down attempts had a lot to do with the defense stinking too. His in game decisions have been much more conventional with a solid defense.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I think the 4th down attempts had a lot to do with the defense stinking too. His in game decisions have been much more conventional with a solid defense.

I'm sure this contributed to his decision making as well, good point.

 

[Loyal Coug]

We also lost against CU in 2012 despite having a late lead. We were leading 31-14 early in the fourth quarter against a CU team that would have gone 0-12 if not for the comeback win that day. Most of the fault lies with our defense, but with a 3 point lead deep in CU territory and under 4 minutes, we passed on 2nd and 3rd downs to leave just enough clock for the Buffaloes to take the lead with 6 seconds to go in the game.

Who's fault was it for passing? According to Leach and all the quarterbacks, every play is a pass and its up the the qb to change it. That being said, should Leach (and did he) tell Connor (was it Halliday for that game?) to look for the run if its there to run time off? Probably, but we'll never know why what happened the way it did.

I don't see Halliday and frankly Falk, bless his heart, as guys who I would rely on to run the ball when appropriate or open. I expect our run/pass ratio to be more Leach-like at 35/65 in 2018.

 

[etowncoug]

I don't see Halliday and frankly Falk, bless his heart, as guys who I would rely on to run the ball when appropriate or open. I expect our run/pass ratio to be more Leach-like at 35/65 in 2018.

Falk handed the ball off a lot more in 2015 and 2016. Unfortunately, our Oline was terrible last year. Hard to get yards when you cant block.

 

[froropmkr72]

Falk handed the ball off a lot more in 2015 and 2016. Unfortunately, our Oline was terrible last year. Hard to get yards when you cant block.

You really can't gauge their run blocking ability given the lack of attempts.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

You really can't gauge their run blocking ability given the lack of attempts.

303 rush attempts to 713 pass attempts.

I think that's enough to form an opinion.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Unfortunately, our Oline was terrible last year. Hard to get yards when you cant block.

• LG Cody O'Connell was 1st team All-Pac 12 and a consensus All-American
• RT Cole Madison was 2nd team All-Pac 12 and received honorable mention AA notice
• LT Andre Dillard was HM All-Pac-12 (and is projected to be a high NFL draft pick in '19)
• RG B.J. Salmonson started all 13 games
• C Frederick Mauigoa started all 13 games

Terrible?

Can't block?

 

[dgibbons]

• LG Cody O'Connell was 1st team All-Pac 12 and a consensus All-American
• RT Cole Madison was 2nd team All-Pac 12 and received honorable mention AA notice
• LT Andre Dillard was HM All-Pac-12 (and is projected to be a high NFL draft pick in '19)
• RG B.J. Salmonson started all 13 games
• C Frederick Mauigoa started all 13 games

Terrible?

Can't block?

Salmonson was not good. It concerned me that no one was able to beat him out. Mauigoa had his ups and downs.

I agree that the OL underperformed.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Salmonson was not good. It concerned me that no one was able to beat him out. Mauigoa had his ups and downs.

I agree that the OL underperformed.

2.9 ypa.

Nearly 500 yards lost on negative plays. Was it all Falk? Have taken the time to research it, but probably a good chunk.

It's be interesting to see how they performed accounting for Falks "bad" sacks. I might get to it later tonight if no one else does.

 

[etowncoug]

• LG Cody O'Connell was 1st team All-Pac 12 and a consensus All-American
• RT Cole Madison was 2nd team All-Pac 12 and received honorable mention AA notice
• LT Andre Dillard was HM All-Pac-12 (and is projected to be a high NFL draft pick in '19)
• RG B.J. Salmonson started all 13 games
• C Frederick Mauigoa started all 13 games

Terrible?

Can't block?

A couple of weak spots on the Oline kills the entire units effectiveness. Vita Vea was able to abuse Mauigoa and Salmonson all game long and was probably the biggest cause of our ineffectiveness. Dillard is a great pass blocker, but is average at best in the run game (I personally see him as below average).

The numbers bear this out as well. The backs as a whole saw almost a yard a carry as a decrease. I don't think our running backs were worse. Our opponents weren't light years better either. The other difference was Salmonson and Mauigoa instead of Sorenson and Middleton. I think this was your culprit.

 

[Loyal Coug]

2.9 ypa.

Nearly 500 yards lost on negative plays. Was it all Falk? Have taken the time to research it, but probably a good chunk.

It's be interesting to see how they performed accounting for Falks "bad" sacks. I might get to it later tonight if no one else does.

I'll save you the trouble. I analyzed this some time back - if you took out the QB sacks, the run YPC were a lot better. Not stellar, but well over 3. Which if you ran every down, would march you down the field. In theory.

I guess my point is that when you put a QB behind center who thinks he can make a play every time, why would he run? Perhaps a bit of a weakness in the Air Raid. Start with a passing play, and the guy who slings it is going to want to sling it. I would if it were me.

So now we will start one QB or another who will hopefully be able to sling it, but will know that mixing it up gives him a better chance to keep drives going. And hopefully keep it once in a while and get those easy yards. Unlike poor Falk (serious, the guy was a 911 call on speed dial due to his many injuries) who took a lot of hits and sacks.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I'll save you the trouble. I analyzed this some time back - if you took out the QB sacks, the run YPC were a lot better. Not stellar, but well over 3. Which if you ran every down, would march you down the field. In theory.

I guess my point is that when you put a QB behind center who thinks he can make a play every time, why would he run? Perhaps a bit of a weakness in the Air Raid. Start with a passing play, and the guy who slings it is going to want to sling it. I would if it were me.

So now we will start one QB or another who will hopefully be able to sling it, but will know that mixing it up gives him a better chance to keep drives going. And hopefully keep it once in a while and get those easy yards. Unlike poor Falk (serious, the guy was a 911 call on speed dial due to his many injuries) who took a lot of hits and sacks.

I just did the math:

1082 yards on 220 carries. It comes out to 4.9 ypc. That is a hell of a difference and a lot better than I gave them (the O line) credit for.

You can check my math, but I took my stats from wsucougars.com. To get rb numbers isolated I subtracted the total yards gained by qbs from team's total yards( 1294-167=1127), then subtracted totals yards lost from team total yards lost (410-365=45).

For net rb-only yards I subtracted rb-only yds lost from rb-only yards gained (1127-45=1082).

For rb only rush attempts I subtracted qb attempts from total attempts (303-83=220).

To get net ypc for rbs, rb only attempts into net rb-only yards gained (1082/220=4.9).

Let me know if I screwed that up (I probably did...)

 

[Loyal Coug]

I just did the math:

1082 yards on 220 carries. It comes out to 4.9 ypc. That is a hell of a difference and a lot better than I gave them (the O line) credit for.

You can check my math, but I took my stats from wsucougars.com. Subtracted the total yards gained by qbs from team's total yards( 1294-167=1127), then subtracted totals yards lost from team total yards lost (410-365=45), subtracted rb-only yds lost from rb-only yards gained (1127-45=1082), subtracted qb attempts from total attempts (303-83=220), rb only attempts into net rb-only yards gained (1082/220=4.9).

Let me know if I screwed that up (I probably did...)

I believe you.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I believe you.

Btw, in reference to your "its a bad idea to put someones who's job it is to pass in charge of calling run or pass" statement - I agree. I would be nice if he could find someone with the emotional maturity to realize that, unless he's all conference and surrounded by all conference WRs, he's best running regularly to make the passing part easier for himself (and everyone else for that matter.)

Makes it really tough to read a defense when there are 8 or 9 guys dropping back in coverage and all those supposedly open spots on the field have Huskies standing there, doesn't it Mr Falk?

Sorry, didn't mean to go there. (but really, you have a rb corp averaging 5 ypc and you can't not call your own number?)

 

[dgibbons]

A couple of weak spots on the Oline kills the entire units effectiveness. Vita Vea was able to abuse Mauigoa and Salmonson all game long and was probably the biggest cause of our ineffectiveness. Dillard is a great pass blocker, but is average at best in the run game (I personally see him as below average).

The numbers bear this out as well. The backs as a whole saw almost a yard a carry as a decrease. I don't think our running backs were worse. Our opponents weren't light years better either. The other difference was Salmonson and Mauigoa instead of Sorenson and Middleton. I think this was your culprit.

Also, Williams was getting too many touches. Morrow and Wicks were outperforming him.

 

[Cougatron]

I just did the math:

1082 yards on 220 carries. It comes out to 4.9 ypc. That is a hell of a difference and a lot better than I gave them (the O line) credit for.

You can check my math, but I took my stats from wsucougars.com. To get rb numbers isolated I subtracted the total yards gained by qbs from team's total yards( 1294-167=1127), then subtracted totals yards lost from team total yards lost (410-365=45).

For net rb-only yards I subtracted rb-only yds lost from rb-only yards gained (1127-45=1082).

For rb only rush attempts I subtracted qb attempts from total attempts (303-83=220).

To get net ypc for rbs, rb only attempts into net rb-only yards gained (1082/220=4.9).

Let me know if I screwed that up (I probably did...)

He did the math...

this makes me so happy. I am so proud I couldn’t be prouder.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Part of being the QB with Leach is knowing how to call plays. I dont think weve seen a QB yet that knows how to do this. Example, have we seen a QB pull the defense out of dropping 8? Run the ball until they step into the box. For years weve seen QBs trying to throw thru the bodies. And theyve had success at it. But what happens when the defense has to defend 25 carries per game and the width and length of the field??? Its time for the QB to stop calling his own number and start calling the OLs number. Challenge those kids to knock people out of the way and get the RBs to the second level.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I just did the math:

1082 yards on 220 carries. It comes out to 4.9 ypc. That is a hell of a difference and a lot better than I gave them (the O line) credit for.

You can check my math, but I took my stats from wsucougars.com. To get rb numbers isolated I subtracted the total yards gained by qbs from team's total yards( 1294-167=1127), then subtracted totals yards lost from team total yards lost (410-365=45).

For net rb-only yards I subtracted rb-only yds lost from rb-only yards gained (1127-45=1082).

For rb only rush attempts I subtracted qb attempts from total attempts (303-83=220).

To get net ypc for rbs, rb only attempts into net rb-only yards gained (1082/220=4.9).

Let me know if I screwed that up (I probably did...)

I looked at the individual stats for Morrow, Williams, Wicks and Harrington and came up with just under 5.1 ypc, which (as was said above) is much better than you'd think looking at the overall stats. It's easy to forget that there are also "TEAM" rushes at the end of halves where a team takes a knee.

The trouble for the 5.1 ypc is that teams like UW, Stanford and Oregon routinely get over 5.8 ypc when you isolate the running backs. In 2016, we got right at 5.8 ypc. That 0.7 ypc difference isn't a big deal most of the time, but what we saw the difference highlighted pretty well between 2016 and 2017. In 2016, if we needed 2 yards, we would get it more often than not......in 2017, the script was flipped and we rarely got that extra half yard when we needed it. Our 2017 offensive line lacked the ability to impose its will on opposing defensive lines. It didn't matter against most of our schedule but the last five games paint an ugly picture of our running backs late in the season:

Montana State: 157 yards on 22 carries.....7.1 ypc
BSU: 54 yards on 19 carries.....2.8 ypc
OSU: 76 yards on 13 carries.....5.8 ypc
Nevada: 116 yards on 26 carries.....4.5 ypc
USC: 135 yards on 20 carries.....6.8 ypc
Oregon: 110 yards on 21 carries.....5.2 ypc
Cal: 73 yards on 14 carries.....5.2 ypc
Colorado: 153 yards on 26 carries.....5.9 ypc

Arizona: 37 yards on 10 carries.....3.7 ypc
Stanford: 116 yards on 23 carries.....5.0 ypc (not too shabby against a team known for its line play)
Utah: 41 yards on 13 carries.....3.2 ypc
UW: 14 yards on 6 carries.....2.3 ypc
Michigan State: 14 yards on 3 carries.....4.7 ypc (baffling to only have three carries in an entire game)

So, we started out pretty well with Boise State being the only game where our running backs had poor production. As the year went on, the running game went in the toilet and the last five games look like something we would have seen in 2012. Wicks and Morrow getting hurt late in the season was obviously a big deal. I hope that Williams can up his game in 2018.....because we are going to need him to.

 

[froropmkr72]

303 rush attempts to 713 pass attempts.

I think that's enough to form an opinion.

Take out the QB attempts and you have 216 vs 713.

I looked at the individual stats for Morrow, Williams, Wicks and Harrington and came up with just under 5.1 ypc, which (as was said above) is much better than you'd think looking at the overall stats. It's easy to forget that there are also "TEAM" rushes at the end of halves where a team takes a knee.

The trouble for the 5.1 ypc is that teams like UW, Stanford and Oregon routinely get over 5.8 ypc when you isolate the running backs. In 2016, we got right at 5.8 ypc. That 0.7 ypc difference isn't a big deal most of the time, but what we saw the difference highlighted pretty well between 2016 and 2017. In 2016, if we needed 2 yards, we would get it more often than not......in 2017, the script was flipped and we rarely got that extra half yard when we needed it. Our 2017 offensive line lacked the ability to impose its will on opposing defensive lines. It didn't matter against most of our schedule but the last five games paint an ugly picture of our running backs late in the season:

Montana State: 157 yards on 22 carries.....7.1 ypc
BSU: 54 yards on 19 carries.....2.8 ypc
OSU: 76 yards on 13 carries.....5.8 ypc
Nevada: 116 yards on 26 carries.....4.5 ypc
USC: 135 yards on 20 carries.....6.8 ypc
Oregon: 110 yards on 21 carries.....5.2 ypc
Cal: 73 yards on 14 carries.....5.2 ypc
Colorado: 153 yards on 26 carries.....5.9 ypc

Arizona: 37 yards on 10 carries.....3.7 ypc
Stanford: 116 yards on 23 carries.....5.0 ypc (not too shabby against a team known for its line play)
Utah: 41 yards on 13 carries.....3.2 ypc
UW: 14 yards on 6 carries.....2.3 ypc
Michigan State: 14 yards on 3 carries.....4.7 ypc (baffling to only have three carries in an entire game)

So, we started out pretty well with Boise State being the only game where our running backs had poor production. As the year went on, the running game went in the toilet and the last five games look like something we would have seen in 2012. Wicks and Morrow getting hurt late in the season was obviously a big deal. I hope that Williams can up his game in 2018.....because we are going to need him to.

We ran less times against some of the worst run defenses in the country. Boise State played tough. OSU was coming off one of the worst run D ratings in 06'. 10 carries, 13 carries, 6 carries and 3 carries- then the ypc fall dramatically.....makes sense. I don't think lack of attempts is the running back's fault. I think the "running game sucked" narrative was retroactive.