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Pac 12 Network had on WSU vs UCLA 2002...who

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wins the game between 2015/2016/2017 squads or the 2002 team? Is it close?
 
wins the game between 2015/2016/2017 squads or the 2002 team? Is it close?

Are you asking if Leach could take one of his last three teams (including this year) and beat Price coaching the 2002 squad? If so....the answer is no. Unless this year's squad really surprises me, the 2002 squad would wipe the field with any of them. For the record, that is the 2002 squad with a healthy Jason Gesser. The 2002 defense was better in every facet of the game. Offensively, I'd give a slight edge to the current squad when it's on a roll, but if they played anything like the last two games, it'd get ugly.
 
Are you asking if Leach could take one of his last three teams (including this year) and beat Price coaching the 2002 squad? If so....the answer is no. Unless this year's squad really surprises me, the 2002 squad would wipe the field with any of them. For the record, that is the 2002 squad with a healthy Jason Gesser. The 2002 defense was better in every facet of the game. Offensively, I'd give a slight edge to the current squad when it's on a roll, but if they played anything like the last two games, it'd get ugly.
Correct, Leach could take any of the past three teams and play the 2002 team. I probably agree with you. It will be interesting to see with the new dynamics of the Pac 12 if we will see that team on both sides of the ball. Different time, different dynamic, different format. I would love to see Leach play for the league title and have a defense that ran and hit like that. (I do think this team will hit you, and they run pretty well. Size up front is the difference)
 
Are you asking if Leach could take one of his last three teams (including this year) and beat Price coaching the 2002 squad? If so....the answer is no. Unless this year's squad really surprises me, the 2002 squad would wipe the field with any of them. For the record, that is the 2002 squad with a healthy Jason Gesser. The 2002 defense was better in every facet of the game. Offensively, I'd give a slight edge to the current squad when it's on a roll, but if they played anything like the last two games, it'd get ugly.

I don't know that they'd "wipe the field" with this year's team. That '02 team was really good, but they didn't exactly blow everyone away. Pretty decisive wins over ASU, UCLA & a horrible Stanford team. Other than that, mostly pretty close games.

I'd definitely put my money on the '02 team, but I bet it would be a pretty good game.
 
I don't know that they'd "wipe the field" with this year's team. That '02 team was really good, but they didn't exactly blow everyone away. Pretty decisive wins over ASU, UCLA & a horrible Stanford team. Other than that, mostly pretty close games.

I'd definitely put my money on the '02 team, but I bet it would be a pretty good game.

Agree. The 2002 team is the deepest we've ever had. NFL guys were sitting on the bench and playing special teams.
 
I don't know that they'd "wipe the field" with this year's team. That '02 team was really good, but they didn't exactly blow everyone away. Pretty decisive wins over ASU, UCLA & a horrible Stanford team. Other than that, mostly pretty close games.

I'd definitely put my money on the '02 team, but I bet it would be a pretty good game.

If one of the 15/16/17 teams was on a roll with Falk & the receivers really in a groove.....it would definitely be a tough game. The biggest problem for the current squad is that I don't think that our defensive backs would have been able to handle our 2002 receiving corps. Riley, Darling, Bush, Lunde and Bienemann would have gone bonkers on our D. Sammy Moore would have at least one 40 yard gain.
 
wins the game between 2015/2016/2017 squads or the 2002 team? Is it close?


Erictile Dysfunction wants people to compare teams in Leach's 6th, 5th, and 4th seasons with one in Price's 14th season.
 
Agree. The 2002 team is the deepest we've ever had. NFL guys were sitting on the bench and playing special teams.

The secondary on the 2002 squad: Coleman, Trufant, David, Williams & Paymah. 4 out of 5 ended up starters in the NFL. The DL on the 2002 squad: Brown, Long, Shavies, Williams, Acholonu, Braidwood. Outland Trophy winner and a bunch of legit studs. Linebackers? Derting, Ira Davis, Genatone, Bennett, Don Jackson and Kevin Sperry. Derting is one of the greatest LB's to ever play at WSU and the rest of those guys are as good or better than anyone on our defense. The 2002 defense would be so far ahead of any of our current defenses, it's just not fair.

On offense, I'd take Riley, Bush, Darling, Henderson, Lunde, and Moore over our current receivers without hesitation. Powell is a decent kicker but Drew Dunning was absolute money under 40 yards. Gesser vs Falk? Talk about a tossup. Gesser is a far better leader but Falk is probably a slightly better passer. Green, Tippins and Smith vs. Wicks/Morrow/Williams? Green is probably a better pure running back but our current backs are probably more versatile. A tossup overall. On OL, Armstrong, Hunt, Knotts, Lightbody and Parrish were a better unit overall than our current group. Lightbody was actually tall enough where he'd look down at Cody O'Connell.

The 2002 team beat a top 5 USC team. We'll see next Friday night how we compare to that team's weaker cousin. Unless these guys grow up fast, the program has work to do to match up to that 2002 squad. It's a compliment to Leach (and the program) that we can even have the conversation though.
 
some interesting stuff here. when flat listed the 02 d-line all i could think is those guys would absolutely live in the 15/16/17 backfield. like they'd be paying property taxes and picking out drapes and shit. and w/ derting on the occasional blitz? falk would be picking himself up in sections after every pass. (hyperbole aside, it would be a very real question if falk could make it to halftime against the 02 pass rush.)

one other thing... for all the shit leach takes on this board about his playcalling, he'd coach circles around price on game day. having said that, leach would need to be able to pick an "all star" squad from the 15/16/17 teams to make this a game.
 
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The secondary on the 2002 squad: Coleman, Trufant, David, Williams & Paymah. 4 out of 5 ended up starters in the NFL. The DL on the 2002 squad: Brown, Long, Shavies, Williams, Acholonu, Braidwood. Outland Trophy winner and a bunch of legit studs. Linebackers? Derting, Ira Davis, Genatone, Bennett, Don Jackson and Kevin Sperry. Derting is one of the greatest LB's to ever play at WSU and the rest of those guys are as good or better than anyone on our defense. The 2002 defense would be so far ahead of any of our current defenses, it's just not fair.

On offense, I'd take Riley, Bush, Darling, Henderson, Lunde, and Moore over our current receivers without hesitation. Powell is a decent kicker but Drew Dunning was absolute money under 40 yards. Gesser vs Falk? Talk about a tossup. Gesser is a far better leader but Falk is probably a slightly better passer. Green, Tippins and Smith vs. Wicks/Morrow/Williams? Green is probably a better pure running back but our current backs are probably more versatile. A tossup overall. On OL, Armstrong, Hunt, Knotts, Lightbody and Parrish were a better unit overall than our current group. Lightbody was actually tall enough where he'd look down at Cody O'Connell.

The 2002 team beat a top 5 USC team. We'll see next Friday night how we compare to that team's weaker cousin. Unless these guys grow up fast, the program has work to do to match up to that 2002 squad. It's a compliment to Leach (and the program) that we can even have the conversation though.


"Gesser is a far better leader..."

Curious on how you conclude this strong assertion? No saying you are wrong. Just want to get some insight into your thought process. A feeling? :p
 
"Gesser is a far better leader..."

Curious on how you conclude this strong assertion? No saying you are wrong. Just want to get some insight into your thought process. A feeling? :p
my initial reaction was the same, but the truth is, everyone around him absolutely raved about gesser as the team leader. i get the sense that the guys like and respect falk but feel a little more "meh" about him compared to the way gesser's guys felt about him.

i mean, that's about as subjective as it gets, but, then again, so is "leadership" in some ways.
 
Erictile Dysfunction wants people to compare teams in Leach's 6th, 5th, and 4th seasons with one in Price's 14th season.
Yaktose Ed-intolerant----Well if the 1997 UCLA game was on the Pac 12 network I would have posed the question
Erictile Dysfunction wants people to compare teams in Leach's 6th, 5th, and 4th seasons with one in Price's 14th season.
Oh Yaktose-Ed-intolerant--- If the 97 UCLA/WSU game was on the Pac 12 network this weekend I would have used that as a comparison. I could have easily used the 97 game and team as a reference point.

Yes I know that giving you the option of three years to pick from because I am not sure which would our best team the last three years (I would have thought 2016) might be a little unfair, but I did give the posters the option of three years.

Does Leach have a more consistent approach than Price? Absolutely. To be honest if I put 2015 against the 92 team I am not sure who wins that game.

In terms of program Leach will win more consistently as Longtime pointed out. What will be answered in the next four years is can Leach with his approach win the Pac 12 North and also the Pac 12 Championship game.
 
"Gesser is a far better leader..."

Curious on how you conclude this strong assertion? No saying you are wrong. Just want to get some insight into your thought process. A feeling? :p

I see what you did there. ;)

As far as the question about my assertion, whenever there was a discussion about Gesser, it revolved around his leadership, his passion, his ability to make his teammates play hard.

When people talk about Luke, they mention his accuracy and calm under pressure. You don't hear people talk about Luke leading the team the way that Gesser did.

EDIT: I wanted to add that if WSU is down by 3 points by 75 seconds to go on our 15 yard line.......I'd want Falk under center every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
 
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some interesting stuff here. when flat listed the 02 d-line all i could think is those guys would absolutely live in the 15/16/17 backfield. like they'd be paying property taxes and picking out drapes and shit. and w/ derting on the occasional blitz? falk would be picking himself up in sections after every pass. (hyperbole aside, it would be a very real question if falk could make it to halftime against the 02 pass rush.)

one other thing... for all the shit leach takes on this board about his playcalling, he'd coach circles around price on game day. having said that, leach would need to be able to pick an "all star" squad from the 15/16/17 teams to make this a game.

Agree 100% that if Leach and Price were coaching against each other with the same guys......Leach would absolutely own Price. If Leach stays at WSU for 14 years, we may see a team that would whip that 2002 squad. I'm personally at amazed at how fast the transformation in our program occurred once Leach's guys were upperclassmen.
 
Agree 100% that if Leach and Price were coaching against each other with the same guys......Leach would absolutely own Price. If Leach stays at WSU for 14 years, we may see a team that would whip that 2002 squad. I'm personally at amazed at how fast the transformation in our program occurred once Leach's guys were upperclassmen.
Leach is a better game day coach than Price, not sure anyone would argue that. But would Price's teams give play enough defense and would his offense score enough to beat those teams.

As far as the future, I feel really good about our QB position. It is kind of like when Doba would roll out a new set of linebackers. You knew they would perform. Same with our next QB. Rb's I think will be productive. Seems like the receivers are starting to get it. Oline has rolled players in and they seem to keep reloading. I could see Dillard moving to Madison's spot and have Lucas protect Hillinski's blind side. My guess is McGuire will have them ready in the future.

The real question about when Leach gets to year 14 will be the defensive line. They did well coming out of the gate and they have really struggled in that position. And what would surprise me if Leach's DB's match that of Trufant, Paymah, David, Coleman etc.

It will be interesting to find out.
 
Price had Zimmer and Doba. Leach would not outcoach or outscheme either of those two.

And how quickly we forget Price installing an H-back to win the Snow Bowl.

The gap is purely imaginative.
 
Price had Zimmer and Doba. Leach would not outcoach or outscheme either of those two.

And how quickly we forget Price installing an H-back to win the Snow Bowl.

The gap is purely imaginative.

I think Mike Leach is the most cerebral coach in the country. Mike Price was feel. A kind of poor mans Jim Walden. What I mean by that is Walden could throw anything against the wall and it would stick. The 81 Holiday Bowl gave him some cred, as did the 82 and 83 Apple Cups. He was the right coach at the time. He wasn't the next level coach. In terms of construction he was the foundation guy and the framer and had Dennis come in as a finish carpenter.

Price was the goofy uncle that could recruit. Wasn't fabulous after halftime. His adjustments weren't stellar. And I think many remember his goal line offense against the Huskys in the Apple Cup.

But you are correct, Price had some very underrated defensive coaches. I will say I do wish Doba slowed down game planned to slow down Deshaun Foster in 2001. If that were the case we would have gone to back to back Rose Bowls. That and if the refs called the mugging on Mike Bush at the end of the game.
 
Price had Zimmer and Doba. Leach would not outcoach or outscheme either of those two.

And how quickly we forget Price installing an H-back to win the Snow Bowl.

The gap is purely imaginative.

Leach wouldn't be the comparison to Doba (under Price) though. It would be Grinch as the proper comparison. Right?

Until Leach takes us to a Rose Bowl (or equivalent), I'd just say he had more upside as a coach than does Leach...but he also had more downside. The highs were incredible and the lows were brutal.

Which records would you prefer over several years....

8-5, 8-5, 9-4, 7-6, 8-5, etc.

or...

4-9, 7-6, 10-3, 9-4, 3-10, wash, rinse, repeat..?


By the way, the answer isn't entirely obvious to me.

You get the idea.
 
Price was the goofy uncle that could recruit. Wasn't fabulous after halftime. His adjustments weren't stellar. And I think many remember his goal line offense against the Huskys in the Apple Cup.
this is a great description. price had a lot of really positive traits as a coach that helped him overcome some truly severe structural disadvantages to bring unprecedented success. but his gameplans/playcalling sometimes defied belief. made it seem sometimes like he was playing checkers out there instead of chess.
 
this is a great description. price had a lot of really positive traits as a coach that helped him overcome some truly severe structural disadvantages to bring unprecedented success. but his gameplans/playcalling sometimes defied belief. made it seem sometimes like he was playing checkers out there instead of chess.

You mean like the obligatory 3rd and long draw play? :D
 
this is a great description. price had a lot of really positive traits as a coach that helped him overcome some truly severe structural disadvantages to bring unprecedented success. but his gameplans/playcalling sometimes defied belief. made it seem sometimes like he was playing checkers out there instead of chess.
I was at a Cougar Club function and it was prior to the 2002 season. A father of a player said to me this year will be different. This team isn't sneaking up on anyone. Price has to be more cerebral. There are times when I thought wow, he is really good, other times I thought not sure the JV coach at the local HS would call that.

Price was very different than Leach. Price believed in the big play. He could be down to cal by 20 and Gesser couldn't hit the broadside of the barn. Five plays later we are up by 8. Leach can sequence plays together in a brilliant manner. One of the few coaches that can need 80 yards to go and have the longest play be 15 yards and still manage to get a TD on 6 plays. Most of the time you would see a hold, a dropped pass, a bad call, a missed block, motion, or something else that would prevent 6 or 7 play drives from happening.

Also Price recruited the QB position differently. He wanted that center piece to carr his team. He had to have it. The problem would become recruiting classes that followed Bledsoe or Leaf. Who wants to sit behind a potential four year starter? You then become stuck with Chad Davis, Chad Degrienier, Steve Birnbaum, Paul Menke. Leach had Tyler Bruggman he took off after one year. Quite frankly, he just wasn't that good. Then Peyton Bender. He struggled as well and took off. But Hillinski can spin it, and he didn't transfer after year one to get more playing time. He waited his turn. He isn't a top end talent, but he can play the position.
 
But Hillinski can spin it, and he didn't transfer after year one to get more playing time. He waited his turn. He isn't a top end talent, but he can play the position.

Define "top end talent". Hilinski was a 4 star recruit and the #10 QB in the country coming out of H.S.
 
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