I've followed recruiting closely since the late 90s....I feel very confident saying this is overall our second to worst class over that time (2011 class the worst). We've done well in the portal landing Ward, Henley and Lee, but truth is they were at schools our staff came from. We haven't landed one significant portal kid otherwise. The next 5 to 10 portal signings are very important for the future of our program. Coaches need to get recruiting!
Pressure is on the coaches now....
- Thread starter ShockandAweWSU
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I've followed recruiting closely since 1999 and I disagree. Dickert and Morris have proven track records of being able to find pretty impressive talents off the beaten path. They know what they are looking for. The film on these kids makes it pretty obvious why the coaches think they can be P5 guys. We are looking at a much more promising group of guys than we got in 2021 or 2020.
Id say Morris has a track record of it. Jury is still out on Dickert's ability to recruit in my opinion.
Worst class in terms of stars. How bad? Worse than Wulff.
The difference? Watching the 2 star kids Wulff signed and watching JDs kids…. These kids have wayyyy more upside. There are some good football players in there. Prob a few that should be 3 star kids.
At some point you have to go into battles and beat other Pac 12 and Power 5 teams. They didn’t do it.
What Leach did well in recruiting was raise the bottom of the classes. He never signed 11 kids that were 2 star players. He never signed a bunch of 4 star kids either. He raided the overall level of talent on the roster.
If you sign 11 kids that are 4 stars and they don’t pan out… that’s one thing. Signing 11 kids that are 2 stars and they don’t pan out??? That’s another.
This isn’t just 1 class. Transition class from Leach to Turd… then a covid class…. now another transition from Turd to JD. That’s 3 weak classes in a row. Especially on the OL. They have 13 OL on the roster right now if I counted right. They signed 7 in the last 2 classes, 2 have already gone. Dumb.
You’re telling me there were only 3 high school players in CA that wanted to play here??? Then I watch the presser and JD says the HS talent is dry??? In a year when half the Pac 12 classes are blown out?? Nope. Not happening.
They have their work cut out for them.
The difference? Watching the 2 star kids Wulff signed and watching JDs kids…. These kids have wayyyy more upside. There are some good football players in there. Prob a few that should be 3 star kids.
At some point you have to go into battles and beat other Pac 12 and Power 5 teams. They didn’t do it.
What Leach did well in recruiting was raise the bottom of the classes. He never signed 11 kids that were 2 star players. He never signed a bunch of 4 star kids either. He raided the overall level of talent on the roster.
If you sign 11 kids that are 4 stars and they don’t pan out… that’s one thing. Signing 11 kids that are 2 stars and they don’t pan out??? That’s another.
This isn’t just 1 class. Transition class from Leach to Turd… then a covid class…. now another transition from Turd to JD. That’s 3 weak classes in a row. Especially on the OL. They have 13 OL on the roster right now if I counted right. They signed 7 in the last 2 classes, 2 have already gone. Dumb.
You’re telling me there were only 3 high school players in CA that wanted to play here??? Then I watch the presser and JD says the HS talent is dry??? In a year when half the Pac 12 classes are blown out?? Nope. Not happening.
They have their work cut out for them.
We need to recruit better, that is a fact! Signing the Rypien's and Bledsoe's energizes the program at all levels.
But the 2008, 2009 and 2010 were rank 87, 92 and 90, respectively. 2011 was the the "Gem" of the Wulff recruiting classes, at 72. The fact that "in reality" the 2011 was likely the worse of the lot, is more a reflection on the quality and reliability of recruiting sites, than the talent signed. Look no further than Doba's 2004 class, ranked 25 on paper, it was supposed to be as good as we have ever signed, in reality it was ordinary at best, regardless of Randy Estes. Doba's 2003 class, ranked 95, proved every bit as "good" with Abdullah, Bruhn, Hill, Pitoitua and McCall.
Most 4 and 5 star recruits are obvious talents, virtually anyone can identify them. The art is identifying the real talent in the 2-3 star kids. That is how Leach made his living, with his consistently "P-12 bottom rung" recruiting classes (according to recruiting sites). That is where recruiting sites are their weakest and we hope that a staff of full time football coaches are at their best.
We will need to keep our fingers cross on this class, and its absence of star power. But you never really know what you have until the fall, when the recruits start moving up the depth chart or fade into obscurity.
For this class, I didn’t have hopes of landing a highly ranked class, given all the current circumstances with the coaching changes and the pandemic. I’ve always thought WSU should look for ‘football players’, 3 stars preferably, but also 2 stars when they look the part. The key for WSU is to get solid football players who want to be in a rural setting like Pullman And love the game. Leach was able to pull in a few 4 star kids with his name and offense (mostly WR’s), but this staff is not going to be able to do that. focus on 3 & 2 star kids who are solid and love football.
Honestly not sure that is the success strategy of the Air Raid. Maybe that changes with the portal. But Leach got less talented QB's to stick around for their senior years where they know the offense forwards and backwards. He led the country in passing every year because the reps his players garnered during practice. I think his QB's got more reps than anyone I can personally think of. It is how he devised practice. Maybe less about scouting his opponent and more about what they did on offense. I wonder if Morris has the same practice structure.
So I am not sure you see Bledsoe, Rypien etc in a class. For sure a lower ceiling but maybe a slightly higher floor.
Curious to know why you think this staff won't be able to pull in 4 star recruits?
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I'm not a D1 coach, so I don't know this to be fact, but it seems to me that bad begets bad when it comes to the kids and their talent. It seems to me that when you have a roster full of 2 star kids, then that will be the measuring stick that you compare incoming classes to and your view will be skewed.
I guess another way to say that is: do these coaches know what REAL P5 talent looks like, or are they so stuck in the "recruit 2 stars and build them up" mode that they'll adopt the "recruiting at levels never seen before" mantra when they land a couple of 3 star kids with other P5 offers? Dickert stating that WSU is a "developmental school" is somewhat worrisome, imho. Yes, of course we are going to have to find kids that were passed over and coach them up, but I don't think that is a path to P12 championships.
I guess another way to say that is: do these coaches know what REAL P5 talent looks like, or are they so stuck in the "recruit 2 stars and build them up" mode that they'll adopt the "recruiting at levels never seen before" mantra when they land a couple of 3 star kids with other P5 offers? Dickert stating that WSU is a "developmental school" is somewhat worrisome, imho. Yes, of course we are going to have to find kids that were passed over and coach them up, but I don't think that is a path to P12 championships.
We haven't been in the championship since 2002. How many of those kids were 4 and five star kids? Developmental school means they are going to find a Rueben Mayes, or they are going to find a Patrick Mahomes, or a Trufant and coach them up and develop them. They are going to put size on these lineman, just like they did with Cole Madison.
Doba went head to head with USC, had no fall back plan and had the worse run of recruits by a three ten win program I can remember. Get me kids who can play.
Well, ED.... they didn't have a star system back then, so I don't know. I also don't know how to go back and look at their offer sheets either.
What I can tell you is that there are 65 P5 football teams, meaning that we aren't even the worst of them - we've fallen below what... 20+ G5 teams as well? Know what happens when you go rooting around at the bottom of the bin? You get covered in rubbish. Yes, you may occasionally find something worth while, but most of the time you won't.
The 1999 class was quite highly rated. The ranking system was totally different then. Jeremey Williams was a top 10 DT. Kegel was top 25 QB. Brown and Burnett were highly rated. Tupai was a top 150 recruit on ESPN.
That is back when you had to get sparing info on CFC and then read the Athlon's mag or a Steele Mag the following summer to keep up with recruiting. Yeah that class coming off the Rose Bowl was one of my all time fave classes. Isaac Brown, Sam Lightbody, Trufant, Rien Long....and one of the Shavies brothers from Oakland. Great Class.
Crazy good classes:
I'd be more worried if Wyoming hadn't had 9 drafted to our 10 going back to 2014. The hope was that they'd have access to even better players at WSU and up the number of picks over a 5-6 year span.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the portal. Tough to be a development program when kids leave once developed. Or if they get tired of not playing and leave.
I can see some programs taking few if any high school kids and focus almost solely on portal talent. If the NCAA moves to an “open 85” roster limit you may see some teams build for one to two years at a time.
I think the main problem with this class is Rolo and team didn't get the ball going early on. You get the sense Rolo knew his fate and was willing to "die on his sword" to prove a point.
Overall, I agree that the "star power" is not here collectively. I do think we addressed some critical depth needs for next season, but may have some VERY big holes in a few years.
Overall, I agree that the "star power" is not here collectively. I do think we addressed some critical depth needs for next season, but may have some VERY big holes in a few years.
The 2014 class was rated 69 in the nation, this on is 73, so similar, there were about 1/2 dozen two stars in that class, two of them were Andre Dillard and Frank Luvu, ya both 2 stars. So who knows, I wish all the kids that signed the best of luck, and to all the two stars use your rating as motivation, and look to Dillard and Luvu, if your goal is the next level.
Would there of been a chance that Dillard left into the portal and popped up wherever the NIL deal was the best. Developed by the program who believed in his ability and then left for the most money? Say it ain't so!
Due to the quirks of Covid elegibility, 2020 and 2021 are basically the same class. I would guess that when viewed as one class it ends up less depressing it feels now.
Schools elsewhere are seeing kids from these two classes portal like crazy. The trick for a school like WSU is to keep enough of the right kids in the program developing while supplementing the roster through the portal. I think the 2022 team looks good because of the pieces we were able to add in the portal. It'll look even better if we had some help on the OL and at WR. Pretty sure Morris and Dickert are on that as well.
Schools elsewhere are seeing kids from these two classes portal like crazy. The trick for a school like WSU is to keep enough of the right kids in the program developing while supplementing the roster through the portal. I think the 2022 team looks good because of the pieces we were able to add in the portal. It'll look even better if we had some help on the OL and at WR. Pretty sure Morris and Dickert are on that as well.
I don't think it can be ignored that the SEC, top to bottom, cleaned house this last year and its in no small part to both the NIL and lack of state restrictions due to covid (compared to the P12 states). It is simply unprecedented that they have 9 teams in the top 20, while the p12's highest team is seated firmly in the middle. Oregon went from what... #2/4 last year to 25? Arizona (known cheaters, but in an "open" state) jumps on miraculously to 22. And the Trojans and Huskies simply fell off the map.
I realize that there were also coaching changes to factor in, but what a crazy year over all.
Also, if it makes anyone feel any better, 247 lists all our recruits as 3 star guys unlike the rivals site. So take that for what its worth...
I realize that there were also coaching changes to factor in, but what a crazy year over all.
Also, if it makes anyone feel any better, 247 lists all our recruits as 3 star guys unlike the rivals site. So take that for what its worth...
How is that any different than non covid and non NIL years. The difference is the fans and their level of commitment.
