Question From Non-WSU Fan

[abcfan2005]

NC State fan here. I'm a big fan of Coach Leach and Im really hoping next year things get back on track for you all. But tonight I was casually looking around at various programs current commitment lists to see how different classes are shaping up with teams I like. It really seems Yall have a nice class coming in, but when I was looking at the list, something stuck out. I didn't see a single player on there from the state of Washington. I thought it was so odd. I had to double take.

I was hoping someone could educate me on this. As a guy from NC, I havent a clue about high school football in Washington, but I'm curious. Is this normal? Does the state struggle to produce D1 football players.

Really hope yall have a break out year next year. I'd love to see coach Leach get things back on track.



Btw, not sure if anyone cares, but we're recruting a kid from Utah named TJ Fehoko. Looks like he took an official to WSU at one point. Seems like a good prospect.

 

[chugspig]

Washington produces a very limited number of D1 players. 15-25 a year. Usually the top 5ish end up at programs like notre dame, oregon, and occaisonally in California at SC or UCLA.. UW, the other major public university takes some of those players but as of late has lost out to programs like oregon, Stanford, UCLA, and SC. Another major factor is competition levels in Washington are pretty low. So a standout 4 star here may have equivalent talent of a 3 star form texas or florida or California. Essentially we find much more talent in other states, and our coaches have experience in areas outside of Washington. Some see it as a problem, I personally think it's a good think to focus outside the state.

 

[Coug1990]

Originally posted by abcfan2005:
NC State fan here. I'm a big fan of Coach Leach and Im really hoping next year things get back on track for you all. But tonight I was casually looking around at various programs current commitment lists to see how different classes are shaping up with teams I like. It really seems Yall have a nice class coming in, but when I was looking at the list, something stuck out. I didn't see a single player on there from the state of Washington. I thought it was so odd. I had to double take.

I was hoping someone could educate me on this. As a guy from NC, I havent a clue about high school football in Washington, but I'm curious. Is this normal? Does the state struggle to produce D1 football players.

Really hope yall have a break out year next year. I'd love to see coach Leach get things back on track.

Btw, not sure if anyone cares, but we're recruting a kid from Utah named TJ Fehoko. Looks like he took an official to WSU at one point. Seems like a good prospect.

I think a little different than most fans here. But, I believe that the state produces D1 players in relation to our size. However, the state is divided in two by the Cascade mountain range. The west side of the range has most of the states population and that is where most of the football players are produced. WSU is located on the east side of the mountains, so there are not a lot of players produced on that side of the mountains.

Most of the players produced on the west side of the state go to the university of washington. The rest are national recruits. So, that leaves WSU recruiting what they can get. Plus, since it has been a long time that WSU has been good, we have a bad reputation in Seattle. There is one recruit that had been committed to WSU for a long time that switched to the uw. There is another, Thomas Toki, a DL from California that actually grew up here in Washington. He committed during this past summer and subsequently, his family moved to California because of a job. So, he really is a player from Washington.

In years past, WSU has recruited Washington players. They will again as WSU starts to win, and they will.

 

[YakiCoug]

Thomas Toki attended Juanita HS in the state of Wash...

before transferring to a California school for his senior season. And until Austin Joyner discovered his inner purple, he had been committed to WSU for quite a while. WSU has offered numerous in-state prospects, btw.

This post was edited on 1/30 10:09 PM by YakiCoug

 

[CrimsonDisciple]

Toki commited before he moved to California. We also have another 4 star athlete that enrolled in Jan (Singleton, Tri-Cities)..... So we have 2 studs from WA that count towards this class.

This post was edited on 1/31 7:30 AM by CrimsonDisciple

 

[kayak15]

1990 nailed it. Just a guess but I would say that 75-80% of the state's population is west of the Cascade mountain range and that's uw territory. Because of the population density around Seattle/Tacoma other schools put out feelers to prospects there too. And, as he mentioned, WSU currently doesn't have a good reputation regarding football in the state. Leach and staff are doing a bang up job recruiting this year and the results and reputation should start to rise accordingly.

 

[YakiCoug]

Originally posted by CrimsonDisciple:
Toki commited before he moved to California. We so have another 4 star athlete that enrolled in Jan (Singleton)..... So we have 2 studs from WA that count towards this class.

Most recruiting analysts about this time a year ago said Singleton would significantly boost WSU's recruiting class if he qualified, that he was considered one of the top 50 or so prospects in Florida before he moved to the Tri-Cities. Had Joyner stuck to his pledge, WSU would have landed three of the top in-state prospects in two years. Once WSU begins winning again, however, I doubt the number of in-state recruits will increase all that much. Why? Simply because WSU will be a bigger ticket in states with more numbers.

 

[abcfan2005]

Thank you so much for the responses!

 

[Coug90]

It's up and down but In general there's probably 50x the D1 talent in California than in WA, and when there are "special" players in Wa, they tend to be extremely overrated (jake heaps and Kasen williams are good examples...both guys would have probably been 3* recruits if they were playing against Cali/Texas type competition)

I think it's always important to build some in-roads with your home state so you can be in on guys that are legit D1 players, but in WSUs case efforts are probably better spent fishing where the fish are.

 

[BiggsCoug]

You can't ignore the local talent. But if the kids don't want to come, what can you do? WSU has pushed more chips into the middle of the table then ever before. If the local talent doesn't see the playing time and upswing of the program, fine. They can all go to the uw. That's one less school in California WSU runs in to.

If you think you're going to build a division or conference title team with talent from WA, you're wrong. Get the best guys you can, but overdosing on local talent isn't going to lead you where you want to go. There just isn't enough to go around.

 

[Coug1990]

Originally posted by Coug90:
It's up and down but In general there's probably 50x the D1 talent in California than in WA, and when there are "special" players in Wa, they tend to be extremely overrated (jake heaps and Kasen williams are good examples...both guys would have probably been 3* recruits if they were playing against Cali/Texas type competition)

I think it's always important to build some in-roads with your home state so you can be in on guys that are legit D1 players, but in WSUs case efforts are probably better spent fishing where the fish are.

I don't agree with the entirety of your post. Yes, California has a lot more talent that Washington. California has more talent than every state in the union. Texas and Florida are close, but those three are so far above the other 47 states. Otherwise, almost every state produces talent based on their population. I don't think cherry picking two players and making a blanket statement about overrated is right either. The Seahawks will have two players from the state of Washington suiting up for them in tomorrow's Superbowl. There are players from Cali/Texas that bust or are overrated too. Bruggman was a 4*. The uw has several 4* QB's that are from Colorado, California, and Washington and every single one is overrated.

I do agree that it is good to build in-roads with state players, but getting good players no matter where they are is more important.

 

[kayak15]

A couple of comments/observations.

Fifty times the California prospect population is a bit much. Read somewhere that it is about a tenth or ninth the quantity of local talent versus Cal. And, no, they are not all busts- WDWHA. Busts come from everywhere and I suspect that the percentages of busts from the local area are consistent with the percentages elsewhere.

I fully agree that Leach and staff should get the best wherever they are from. However, I greatly wish we could make inroads into recruiting the local kids for a couple of reasons.

Firstly- and least important- is that it is damn well embarrassing that we fail to get our fair share of local commits. I understand when a kid goes elsewhere for a good reason but it is frustrating when most do so and not always for a "good" reason.

But there is a second reason far more important than my/our self-esteem: recruiting. If I were to tell you that the people closest to me would prefer to have nothing to do with me, what does that tell you? I would bet my right arm against a doughnut that this is used in the recruiting process. "You are looking at who!? You're kidding! Good Lord, son, even the guys in Spokane won't go there. We got one from there last year and another from the tri-cities a couple of years ago." Recruiters use every argument in the book to persuade kids to matriculate at their schools and this is a good one. And a fair point. If we were getting half or more of the prospects in the Seattle area, don't you think that Leach would point this out? Guarantee you that he would.

Yes, most of our team has to come from out of state. Just mathematics. I am fine with that and understand it as you do. But we need to get more local kids. Some of them are quite good and it would undercut the prior recruiting argument/pitch.

How do we do this? Win more games? Yes, but we need talent to do that. Chicken/egg problem. No chickens, no eggs. No eggs, no chickens. Leach and his guys will have to recruit and coach their way out and up. I see no easy solution. That said, I am convinced that they will eventually get there.
This post was edited on 1/31 1:23 PM by kayak15

 

[BiggsCoug]

This is why it's so important for WSU to pay top dollar for its coaches and have tip top facilities.

You don't have to win the arms race, but you have to be in the arms race. That means spending money. I think WSU is getting there. I think this is the beginning of the most successful run in WSU history. If the California kids see it and jump on board but the local kids don't. Fine. Get more California kids. Let them go to bowl games and then head home for break and talk up WSU. Odds are there is more talent coming from their schools than WA schools.

 

[YakiCoug]

Originally posted by kayak15:
A couple of comments/observations.


But there is a second reason far more important than my/our self-esteem: recruiting. If I were to tell you that the people closest to me would prefer to have nothing to do with me, what does that tell you? I would bet my right arm against a doughnut that this is used in the recruiting process. "You are looking at who!? You're kidding! Good Lord, son, even the guys in Spokane won't go there. We got one from there last year and another from the tri-cities a couple of years ago." Recruiters use every argument in the book to persuade kids to matriculate at their schools and this is a good one. And a fair point. If we were getting half or more of the prospects in the Seattle area, don't you think that Leach would point this out? Guarantee you that he would.

Leach and his staff have and are aggressively recruiting in-state prospects, so your "nothing to do with me" phrase is garbage. We went after West Valley-Yakima's Shane Lemieux early on, long before the mutts ever gave him the time of day. The same can be said for Joyner and the kid from Steilacom. The year before, WSU pursued numerous in-state kids just as aggressively. You do understand, I hope, that Leach is still dealing with abyss aka 6 and 40. Recruiting this year is going pretty well actually.

 

[kayak15]

Yaki: My comment you refer to was not meant to say that we/WSU do not want to have contact with the local athletes but that they are inclined to avoid us. We- Leach and staff- are reaching out to instate kids but, as you mentioned, our reputation is currently somewhat sour and most would prefer to go elsewhere. We are not avoiding them; they are avoiding us. I do not see this as "garbage" but obvious. Maybe my post was poorly phrased.

My point was that the dearth of instate commits gives the appearance of undesirability among those who should know us best. Until this gap in our recruiting classes is closed it gives other schools an argument against us. A weak argument perhaps but an argument and one which might be sufficient to a 17-18 year old high school student for him to cross WSU off his list.

Yes, the current recruitment seems to be going quite well. I trust that eventually the staff will make inroads locally with kids and coaches.

 

[froropmkr72]

Both teams have 30 players from Washington on their roster. Until those players from Washington as good as the players they're getting from outside the state start committing...don't expect too many tears. If we're supposed to sweat over a Jake Eldrenkamp hat dance.....forget it. The reality was that WSU and even EWU got at least a better lineman around that time from Washington.

 

[YakiCoug]

Originally posted by froropmkr72:
Both teams have 30 players from Washington on their roster. Until those players from Washington as good as the players they're getting from outside the state start committing...don't expect too many tears. If we're supposed to sweat over a Jake Eldrenkamp hat dance.....forget it. The reality was that WSU and even EWU got at least a better lineman around that time from Washington.

As long as Orson Fetters and people like him influence player rankings, I more or less dismiss the hype about in-state recruits. Fetters once said that Bellevue running back J.R. Hasty was just as good as Snoop Stewart and thus gave him a 4-star ranking, largely due to the fact Hasty would become a dawg. This inflation has occurred many times over the years, and more often than not these in-state marvels wash out. I'll venture to say they number in the dozens in the past 10 years.
In short, not only is there not a great quantity - at least not enough to sustain a program (look at the UW)- the quality is often suspect.
The one aspect that's worthy of discussion here is this: would an in-state player, playing for a state school, be more motivated to excel? Perhaps in Apple Cups. Beyond that, I'm not so sure that's the case.

 

[Coug1990]

Originally posted by YakiCoug:

Originally posted by froropmkr72:
Both teams have 30 players from Washington on their roster. Until those players from Washington as good as the players they're getting from outside the state start committing...don't expect too many tears. If we're supposed to sweat over a Jake Eldrenkamp hat dance.....forget it. The reality was that WSU and even EWU got at least a better lineman around that time from Washington.

As long as Orson Fetters and people like him influence player rankings, I more or less dismiss the hype about in-state recruits. Fetters once said that Bellevue running back J.R. Hasty was just as good as Snoop Stewart and thus gave him a 4-star ranking, largely due to the fact Hasty would become a dawg. This inflation has occurred many times over the years, and more often than not these in-state marvels wash out. I'll venture to say they number in the dozens in the past 10 years.
In short, not only is there not a great quantity - at least not enough to sustain a program (look at the UW)- the quality is often suspect.
The one aspect that's worthy of discussion here is this: would an in-state player, playing for a state school, be more motivated to excel? Perhaps in Apple Cups. Beyond that, I'm not so sure that's the case.

Thankfully, bx got rid of Fetters. He was so transparent in his bias. I remember when Bishop Sankey was committed to the Cougars he wrote time and time again that he was small, slow and overrated. When he switched to the huskies, all of a sudden he wrote that he had elite speed, a great change of direction and was a star in the making.

 

[YakiCoug]

Originally posted by Coug1990:

Originally posted by YakiCoug:

Originally posted by froropmkr72:
Both teams have 30 players from Washington on their roster. Until those players from Washington as good as the players they're getting from outside the state start committing...don't expect too many tears. If we're supposed to sweat over a Jake Eldrenkamp hat dance.....forget it. The reality was that WSU and even EWU got at least a better lineman around that time from Washington.

As long as Orson Fetters and people like him influence player rankings, I more or less dismiss the hype about in-state recruits. Fetters once said that Bellevue running back J.R. Hasty was just as good as Snoop Stewart and thus gave him a 4-star ranking, largely due to the fact Hasty would become a dawg. This inflation has occurred many times over the years, and more often than not these in-state marvels wash out. I'll venture to say they number in the dozens in the past 10 years.
In short, not only is there not a great quantity - at least not enough to sustain a program (look at the UW)- the quality is often suspect.
The one aspect that's worthy of discussion here is this: would an in-state player, playing for a state school, be more motivated to excel? Perhaps in Apple Cups. Beyond that, I'm not so sure that's the case.

Thankfully, bx got rid of Fetters. He was so transparent in his bias. I remember when Bishop Sankey was committed to the Cougars he wrote time and time again that he was small, slow and overrated. When he switched to the huskies, all of a sudden he wrote that he had elite speed, a great change of direction and was a star in the making.

Many here might not remember this, but Doba et al persuaded Marshawn Lynch to take an official visit to Pullman. Fetters' recruiting story had a not-so-subtle jab suggesting Lynch's big recruiting meal was at a Jack in the Box. Of course, any story about mutt recruits mentioned this or that 5-star Seattle restaurant (this was before the NCAA limited locations of meals). It was a travesty that he was ever allowed to influence recruiting ratings.