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Rolo's first recruiting class: high marks from me

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ttowncoug

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Was worried early on, but these guys did very, very well considering the circumstances:
1. Can't visit Pullman.
2. New coach. (Leach mystique gone).
3. Terrible short season. (COVID, game play, etc.).

I like the transfer class a lot. Will plug some good talent into holes right away.

Would have liked to see more emphasis on the lines, but I'm guessing its more of a "numbers game" at this point.
 
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Not terrible considering what they were up against. It was loaded class towards the defense, which was needed. Need a running back, not a lot of depth there after Borghi and McIntosh. Need to get back to recruiting heavy on the offensive line, but all things considered I'm fine with the class. Hopefully the projects are developed into contributors and the portal guys fill and play at a high level because we need that.
 
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ttowncoug said:
Was worried early on, but these guys did very, very well considering the circumstances:
1. Can't visit Pullman.
2. New coach. (Leach mystique gone).
3. Terrible short season. (COVID, game play, etc.).

I like the transfer class a lot. Will plug some good talent into holes right away.

Would have liked to see more emphasis on the lines, but I'm guessing its more of a "numbers game" at this point.
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As always the retention will tell the story. I agree seems like they sure plugged some immediate holes and prioritized positions of need very well.
 
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I give Rolo a pass this year, but I don’t get the “high marks for recruiting.”. Last time I checked the 2021 class ranked about 57th. Need significant improvement next year.
 
Lack of depth has also been "par for the course." I think you could give a little criticism to Leach's staff for not doing a better job on that side of the ball.
 
Black Bart the Pirate said:
I give Rolo a pass this year, but I don’t get the “high marks for recruiting.”. Last time I checked the 2021 class ranked about 57th. Need significant improvement next year.
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Rivals had it at 49. For comparison, Leach’s highest rated class was 46th in 2018. Given all the handicaps Rolo faced that I won’t both rehashing, I’d say 49 isn’t bad.
 
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Recruiting classes are somewhat relative. Price needed top 25 classes to put a winner on the field, Leach could do it with top 60. Where will Rolo fit?
 
wazzucougs96 said:
Leach's staff really phoned it in, especially on defense, their final 3 years in Pullman
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When you have an Iowa pig farmer look alike as your DC do you think it helps you or hurts you on the West Coast?

I dont think ML really gave a shit about recruiting. I don't think he cared to get to know kids or build strong relationships. I think he made an offer, some small talk and thought that was enough. It prob rubbed off on his staff too.

At WSU you have to grind as a recruiter. You don't have the luxury of taking a day off or going half assed on anything.

I feel ML brought up the bottom 1/2 ~ 1/4 of talent that WSU usually gets. Certainly stronger classes in building overall depth of talent on the roster. I do not believe he moved the top 1/2 ~ 1/4 of the roster much higher.

WSU is a development school. Kids need coached up, built up, over years to get the moxie and savvy needed to win big games. Just my 2 cents.
 
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BiggsCoug said:
When you have an Iowa pig farmer look alike as your DC do you think it helps you or hurts you on the West Coast?

I dont think ML really gave a shit about recruiting. I don't think he cared to get to know kids or build strong relationships. I think he made an offer, some small talk and thought that was enough. It prob rubbed off on his staff too.

At WSU you have to grind as a recruiter. You don't have the luxury of taking a day off or going half assed on anything.

I feel ML brought up the bottom 1/2 ~ 1/4 of talent that WSU usually gets. Certainly stronger classes in building overall depth of talent on the roster. I do not believe he moved the top 1/2 ~ 1/4 of the roster much higher.

WSU is a development school. Kids need coached up, built up, over years to get the moxie and savvy needed to win big games. Just my 2 cents.
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At WSU you have to grind as a recruiter. You don't have the luxury of taking a day off or going half assed on anything.
That is absolutely true and the rest is an interesting analysis. Also, they left a percentage of talent on the sidelines for one reason or another. Just saying that maybe they couldn't afford to leave 4-5 kids on the sidelines that can actually play some and develop further. It has to do with that relationship building and it's affect on motivation or de-motivation.
 
BiggsCoug said:
When you have an Iowa pig farmer look alike as your DC do you think it helps you or hurts you on the West Coast?

I dont think ML really gave a shit about recruiting. I don't think he cared to get to know kids or build strong relationships. I think he made an offer, some small talk and thought that was enough. It prob rubbed off on his staff too.

At WSU you have to grind as a recruiter. You don't have the luxury of taking a day off or going half assed on anything.

I feel ML brought up the bottom 1/2 ~ 1/4 of talent that WSU usually gets. Certainly stronger classes in building overall depth of talent on the roster. I do not believe he moved the top 1/2 ~ 1/4 of the roster much higher.

WSU is a development school. Kids need coached up, built up, over years to get the moxie and savvy needed to win big games. Just my 2 cents.
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The thing that shocked me the most about the HBO series that Leach was featured in during the 2019 season was realizing that he didn't ever talk to Blake Mazza.....ever. Mazza said in an interview that he was pretty sure that Leach didn't know his name.
 
My bad, I was looking at 247 ratings. Rivals has Rolo’s class rated significantly higher.

some of you guys just can’t get over your obsession with Leach. For a guy who can’t recruit, he seems to be doing ok at MSU according to Rivals.
 
Bart, there is a pretty clear line between being a troll and making valid observations. Clearly you don't have much background on the site, or the Leach comments to which you are referring would be self-evident. I'll give you the courtesy of assuming that you are not a troll for now (we get a lot of trolls, and they often start off just as you did), but if you are coming here with minimal background knowledge, it might be helpful to ask "why" regarding comments instead of making snarky "some of you guys just can’t get over your obsession with Leach. For a guy who can’t recruit, he seems to be doing ok at MSU according to Rivals." sorts of comments.

I'll just note that anyone who knows much about Mike Leach realizes that his strengths (and he has many) are not in the arenas of recruiting or relationships with his players. Both of those things are delegated to others on Mike's staff.
 
Black Bart the Pirate said:
My bad, I was looking at 247 ratings. Rivals has Rolo’s class rated significantly higher.

some of you guys just can’t get over your obsession with Leach. For a guy who can’t recruit, he seems to be doing ok at MSU according to Rivals.
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MSU avg class rating 2015-2020 (pre-Leach) = 23.5
MSU class rating 2021 = 23

So yeah, he’s doing just ok in a conference that is easy to recruit to.
 
I heard a few years ago the contrast between Leach and Peterson at UW.

Leach would speak to a big group of kids at camp. Message: "only a few of you are good enough to play football at the Pac-12 level. We are looking for those few guys during the camp." Didn't really interact with kids/parents. "Stand off-ish"

Peterson essentially welcomed everyone. Took pictures with kids and parents. Genuinely went of of his way to be coordinal.

It's a personality/comfort thing, but those little things "matter" and word will get out and spread. Also not a great strategy if you are trying to cultivate in-state recruiting.
 
ttowncoug said:
I heard a few years ago the contrast between Leach and Peterson at UW.

Leach would speak to a big group of kids at camp. Message: "only a few of you are good enough to play football at the Pac-12 level. We are looking for those few guys during the camp." Didn't really interact with kids/parents. "Stand off-ish"

Peterson essentially welcomed everyone. Took pictures with kids and parents. Genuinely went of of his way to be coordinal.

It's a personality/comfort thing, but those little things "matter" and word will get out and spread. Also not a great strategy if you are trying to cultivate in-state recruiting.
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in state recruiting is almost farcical, not worth mking more than one trip through the state
 
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wazzucougs96 said:
How many top 25 recruiting classes did Mike Price get? 1? Maybe?
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1990, 1999, 2002. Bottom line is you don't go to the Rose Bowl, all while picked to win the conference from the get go by recruiting like Leach did, and how Rolo has recruited so far. You do it by signing lots of upper division talent. Stop the Leach arse kissing revisionist history regarding Price and recruiting, or claimed lack thereof. 2002 remains the culmination of best recruiting in school history -- the deepest, most talented team in school history, followed by 2003 and 2001.

Pretending that this is as good as it can, and does get, is nonsense. Just look at basketball, and what a "dialed in" coach can do in recruiting. Smith just signed the best freshmen class in school history, despite 1970s facilities. It is Rolo's turn to step it up too, with the advantage of great facilities.
 
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Cougsocal said:
1990, 1999, 2002. Bottom line is you don't go to the Rose Bowl, all while picked to win the conference from the get go by recruiting like Leach did, and how Rolo has recruited so far. You do it by signing lots of upper division talent. Stop the Leach arse kissing revisionist history regarding Price and recruiting, or claimed lack thereof. 2002 remains the culmination of best recruiting in school history -- the deepest, most talented team in school history, followed by 2003 and 2001.

Pretending that this is as good as it can, and does get, is nonsense. Just look at basketball, and what a "dialed in" coach can do in recruiting. Smith just signed the best freshmen class in school history, despite 1970s facilities. It is Rolo's turn to step it up too, with the advantage of great facilities.
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I certainly could be wrong (according to my children, that is common), but I suspect that once the R&S is fully implemented, it will do well in the PAC. At that point we will have a distinct, unique and highly visible offensive identity, much like we had in the first few Leach years. That will be of benefit in recruiting, and when combined with Rolo's ability to talk to kids & parents, should produce steady improvement on the field. The big difference between now and the first Leach years is that Mike Leach left us with a great deal more talent than we had when Leach arrived.
 
Don't want to waste a ton of time on this, since it doesn't really matter, but -- while I don't doubt this anecdote at all, and think it accurately reflects Leach and his nature -- it's worth bearing in mind the benefits, as well as the detriments, of this kind of persona at camps and more generally.

Yeah, some kids and parents are going to be put off by that. It is, however, both a realistic view of what it's like to play under Leach, and it causes him to bring kids on board who are willing to work and maximize their talents.

There's a lot deeper one could go on this, but basically, that's how you take 55th-ranked classes and get top 25ish types of results. Leach wasn't (just) about having a gimmick offense that let him win with lesser talent. He had teams that were mentally tough and very well conditioned. Part of that is getting the kind of recruit who still wants to play for you when you say something like that at a camp.

ttowncoug said:
I heard a few years ago the contrast between Leach and Peterson at UW.

Leach would speak to a big group of kids at camp. Message: "only a few of you are good enough to play football at the Pac-12 level. We are looking for those few guys during the camp." Didn't really interact with kids/parents. "Stand off-ish"

Peterson essentially welcomed everyone. Took pictures with kids and parents. Genuinely went of of his way to be coordinal.

It's a personality/comfort thing, but those little things "matter" and word will get out and spread. Also not a great strategy if you are trying to cultivate in-state recruiting.
Click to expand...
 
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Given the obstacles I really respect what they did. Need another year of hopefully normal recruiting to get another data point. If they fill out with OL/DB/RB next year and pick up some decent talent again I’ll be happy.
 
Leach cared about recruiting, but he didn't want to work hard to attract kids. He said as much when he took the MSU job.

As a lifetime outside medical sales rep, I understand where he's coming from. Every job I've worked at has involved exponentially more travel than my sales peers. Early in my career, I for a diagnostic genetics company calling on neurologists. All the reps nationwide (about 45 of us) has a territory of neurologists assigned. My territory included all of WA/OR/ID/MT/AK. I did approximately 120 overnights/year covering my territory for over 6 years. My counterparts in California North/South did maybe 20 nights. Even when I was "local" to my home, I had to drive to central WA, Shelton, Bellingham, etc. It was exhausting, but the pay was good, so it was worth it. I was paid the same as my counterparts, but I worked harder and was away from home almost every week.

There was a recent article about Mississippi State's recruiting this year. They finished 25th in the Nation and landed (5) 4-star kids. None of them were outside of the MSU's relative geography. Leach was able to drive to his recruiting trips. This isn't just a WSU problem, it's a problem with any campus located in the NW. Travel is a major PITA. Lou Pinella and Ken Griffey reiterated that when they left Seattle. Lou said coaching in Tampa meant the difference of thousands of air miles/year. If you're the coach of a Boston pro sports team, your rivals are located in NY, Philly, DC, Toronto, etc. It's a bid damn difference.
 
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I'll judge the class in two to 3 years. I don't put a lot of stock into recruiting classes, other getting 23-25 signed, and having balance. And this year was out of balance due to covid and needs. In the end it boils down to retention and development, which hopefully we start to get a glimpse of next year. It will be interesting to see if any of the players in the transfer portal make a difference next year, typically people transfer because of playing time. will they earn it at WSU?
 
CougPatrol said:
Leach cared about recruiting, but he didn't want to work hard to attract kids. He said as much when he took the MSU job.

As a lifetime outside medical sales rep, I understand where he's coming from. Every job I've worked at has involved exponentially more travel than my sales peers. Early in my career, I for a diagnostic genetics company calling on neurologists. All the reps nationwide (about 45 of us) has a territory of neurologists assigned. My territory included all of WA/OR/ID/MT/AK. I did approximately 120 overnights/year covering my territory for over 6 years. My counterparts in California North/South did maybe 20 nights. Even when I was "local" to my home, I had to drive to central WA, Shelton, Bellingham, etc. It was exhausting, but the pay was good, so it was worth it. I was paid the same as my counterparts, but I worked harder and was away from home almost every week.

There was a recent article about Mississippi State's recruiting this year. They finished 25th in the Nation and landed (5) 4-star kids. None of them were outside of the MSU's relative geography. Leach was able to drive to his recruiting trips. This isn't just a WSU problem, it's a problem with any campus located in the NW. Travel is a major PITA. Lou Pinella and Ken Griffey reiterated that when they left Seattle. Lou said coaching in Tampa meant the difference of thousands of air miles/year. If you're the coach of a Boston pro sports team, your rivals are located in NY, Philly, DC, Toronto, etc. It's a bid damn difference.
Click to expand...

Did you make million miler on Alaska?
 
CougPatrol said:
Leach cared about recruiting, but he didn't want to work hard to attract kids. He said as much when he took the MSU job.

As a lifetime outside medical sales rep, I understand where he's coming from. Every job I've worked at has involved exponentially more travel than my sales peers. Early in my career, I for a diagnostic genetics company calling on neurologists. All the reps nationwide (about 45 of us) has a territory of neurologists assigned. My territory included all of WA/OR/ID/MT/AK. I did approximately 120 overnights/year covering my territory for over 6 years. My counterparts in California North/South did maybe 20 nights. Even when I was "local" to my home, I had to drive to central WA, Shelton, Bellingham, etc. It was exhausting, but the pay was good, so it was worth it. I was paid the same as my counterparts, but I worked harder and was away from home almost every week.

There was a recent article about Mississippi State's recruiting this year. They finished 25th in the Nation and landed (5) 4-star kids. None of them were outside of the MSU's relative geography. Leach was able to drive to his recruiting trips. This isn't just a WSU problem, it's a problem with any campus located in the NW. Travel is a major PITA. Lou Pinella and Ken Griffey reiterated that when they left Seattle. Lou said coaching in Tampa meant the difference of thousands of air miles/year. If you're the coach of a Boston pro sports team, your rivals are located in NY, Philly, DC, Toronto, etc. It's a bid damn difference.
Click to expand...

A lot of great points here, especially about travel. This is one of those things I address when I write those posts that go through all the things stacked up against WSU succeeding. It's a factor in the discussions about the Pac-12 against the rest of the country, too.

I also am virtually certain that Leach's recruiting message and style resonates more in SEC country than it might on the west coast, and that if you caught Leach in an honest moment, he'd tell you that he would prefer to recruit and coach kids from Texas and the South than kids from California, all else equal. The reasons why are pretty obvious.
 
Which type of "project" below concerns you the most?

1- Heat seeking missile of the edge, recruited at 6-2, 198 lbs and after 3 years of eating and lifting now weighs 210, is a rotational player, but not a starter

2- Scat back, recruited at 5-10, 175 and after 3 years of eating and lifting now weighs 188 receiving a handful of carries a game

3- Tweener dt lineman, recruited at 6-4, 235 and after 3 years of eating and lifting now weighs 260 playing nose tackle, playing as a living pancake on roller skates
 
Personally, putting an emphasis on "in-state talent" is fine, but we need an emphasis on talent in general.

You go for "fit guys" and coach and develop them up. Abe Lucas is a great example of the kind of guys that should be Cougs.
 
grahamcoug said:
Which type of "project" below concerns you the most?

1- Heat seeking missile of the edge, recruited at 6-2, 198 lbs and after 3 years of eating and lifting now weighs 210, is a rotational player, but not a starter

2- Scat back, recruited at 5-10, 175 and after 3 years of eating and lifting now weighs 188 receiving a handful of carries a game

3- Tweener dt lineman, recruited at 6-4, 235 and after 3 years of eating and lifting now weighs 260 playing nose tackle, playing as a living pancake on roller skates
Click to expand...

They don't concern me at all. I would have moved them on down the road cause after 3 years if those are their gains they are never going to play. Time to go.
 
grahamcoug said:
Which type of "project" below concerns you the most?

1- Heat seeking missile of the edge, recruited at 6-2, 198 lbs and after 3 years of eating and lifting now weighs 210, is a rotational player, but not a starter

2- Scat back, recruited at 5-10, 175 and after 3 years of eating and lifting now weighs 188 receiving a handful of carries a game

3- Tweener dt lineman, recruited at 6-4, 235 and after 3 years of eating and lifting now weighs 260 playing nose tackle, playing as a living pancake on roller skates
Click to expand...
If you are going to reach on any of these guys do it on #1. That guy can play on any of the special teams, cover kicks, etc. #3 doesn’t do you much good anywhere. Scat back gives you a good scout teamer, could be a gunner, and plays a position that’s injury prone and may need to go deep on the depth chart...he’s #2.
 
grahamcoug said:
Which type of "project" below concerns you the most?

1- Heat seeking missile of the edge, recruited at 6-2, 198 lbs and after 3 years of eating and lifting now weighs 210, is a rotational player, but not a starter

2- Scat back, recruited at 5-10, 175 and after 3 years of eating and lifting now weighs 188 receiving a handful of carries a game

3- Tweener dt lineman, recruited at 6-4, 235 and after 3 years of eating and lifting now weighs 260 playing nose tackle, playing as a living pancake on roller skates
Click to expand...
My big concern with these guys is the coach that hasn’t either found a new position or a new school for them after 3 years.
 
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ttowncoug said:
Was worried early on, but these guys did very, very well considering the circumstances:
1. Can't visit Pullman.
2. New coach. (Leach mystique gone).
3. Terrible short season. (COVID, game play, etc.).

I like the transfer class a lot. Will plug some good talent into holes right away.

Would have liked to see more emphasis on the lines, but I'm guessing its more of a "numbers game" at this point.
Click to expand...
I’ll give him a pass on this class (or, in keeping with the WSU grading scale, I’ll give him a NRC - No Record COVID). There seem to be some decent options in spots we need.

My concern is what we didn’t get. Specifically bodies on the OL. I don’t necessarily believe you need 5 in every class, but you need to average close to 4. Only pulling 2 in this class creates a concern 2-3 years down the road....unless he can backfill with a good haul next year, and avoid attrition from last year.
 
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CougPatrol said:
That’s the worst part. Flights to Billings and drives to Medford and Bend don’t add up to much. I am lifetime platinum with Marriott though.
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I thought yo might by covering Alaska. Before the pandemic I’d qualify for MVP on segments, never on miles. Wooo!
 
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