Spokanites - getting your Sportsplex...

[Loyal Coug]

Looking at the map - it leaves room for your football stadium as well?

And I see that the related study was done by education giant Gonzaga University.....

"The Sportsplex, once built, would generate $33 million in direct tourism spending with an estimated 46,000 annual hotel stays, according to a study by Gonzaga University and Florida-based Sports Facility Advisory."

I don't really care about this, just trying to make conversation. But, I do enjoy picking apart some of these economic studies. For instance - the 46,000 hotel stays (one person for one night = a "stay"?) will generate $33,000,000 in direct tourism spending - or $717 per person per day. In Spokane, WA.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/apr/18/commissioners-approve-25-million-in-bonds-to-help-/#/0

 

[dgibbons]

Looking at the map - it leaves room for your football stadium as well?

And I see that the related study was done by education giant Gonzaga University.....

"The Sportsplex, once built, would generate $33 million in direct tourism spending with an estimated 46,000 annual hotel stays, according to a study by Gonzaga University and Florida-based Sports Facility Advisory."

I don't really care about this, just trying to make conversation. But, I do enjoy picking apart some of these economic studies. For instance - the 46,000 hotel stays (one person for one night = a "stay"?) will generate $33,000,000 in direct tourism spending - or $717 per person per day. In Spokane, WA.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/apr/18/commissioners-approve-25-million-in-bonds-to-help-/#/0

Just for those wondering, 10 basketball courts is double the size of the Hub or Fieldhouse. The Spokane Sports Commission does a pretty good job getting events to Spokane (lots of youth sports tournaments and some off-center stuff like weightlifting championships and boxing events).

Not sure how they get to $33 million. If I can't find a good deal on priceline.com, it costs me about $200 per day for lodging and meals to travel for sports tournaments. If I can, it's about $150 per day.

 

[COUGinNCW]

Just for those wondering, 10 basketball courts is double the size of the Hub or Fieldhouse. The Spokane Sports Commission does a pretty good job getting events to Spokane (lots of youth sports tournaments and some off-center stuff like weightlifting championships and boxing events).

Not sure how they get to $33 million. If I can't find a good deal on priceline.com, it costs me about $200 per day for lodging and meals to travel for sports tournaments. If I can, it's about $150 per day.

$150 requires you to eat the rubber eggs and sausage at the “free breakfast”. Of course my family is quite used to such quality meals.

 

[FnuLnu]

Just for those wondering, 10 basketball courts is double the size of the Hub or Fieldhouse. The Spokane Sports Commission does a pretty good job getting events to Spokane (lots of youth sports tournaments and some off-center stuff like weightlifting championships and boxing events).

Not sure how they get to $33 million. If I can't find a good deal on priceline.com, it costs me about $200 per day for lodging and meals to travel for sports tournaments. If I can, it's about $150 per day.

$33 million is obviously counting revenue from the still unannounced Paul Wulff museum. It's being moved from Pullman to Spokane because they finally unearthed copies of The Plan in the original Aramaic.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Just for those wondering, 10 basketball courts is double the size of the Hub or Fieldhouse. The Spokane Sports Commission does a pretty good job getting events to Spokane (lots of youth sports tournaments and some off-center stuff like weightlifting championships and boxing events).

Not sure how they get to $33 million. If I can't find a good deal on priceline.com, it costs me about $200 per day for lodging and meals to travel for sports tournaments. If I can, it's about $150 per day.

Well I found the report they refer to (link below). Turns out that in year 5 they project only 39,000 nights and $23 million in "economic impact" through direct spending. Aha - economic impact - now we get into the multipliers and all that voodoo. Not really a direct infusion of $33 million in direct spending at all. Remember, this is all NEW activity - in addition to whatever currently comes to town or uses the HUB or Warehouse or arena or whatever. Oh and the report is from fall, 2015, as is the $35 million cost estimate .

http://www.spokanesports.org/SPORTSPLEX/Spokane_Feasibility_Study.pdf

http://www.spokanesportsplex.org/#contact

Allright - I'm done picking at this. As I said, I don't care.

 

[Coug95man2]

Well I found the report they refer to (link below). Turns out that in year 5 they project only 39,000 nights and $23 million in "economic impact" through direct spending. Aha - economic impact - now we get into the multipliers and all that voodoo. Not really a direct infusion of $33 million in direct spending at all. Remember, this is all NEW activity - in addition to whatever currently comes to town or uses the HUB or Warehouse or arena or whatever. Oh and the report is from fall, 2015, as is the $35 million cost estimate .

http://www.spokanesports.org/SPORTSPLEX/Spokane_Feasibility_Study.pdf

http://www.spokanesportsplex.org/#contact

Allright - I'm done picking at this. As I said, I don't care.

Does it matter? It's happening. It's done. Could have an infusion of $5.00 a year but people are tired of Albi.

 

[dgibbons]

Does it matter? It's happening. It's done. Could have an infusion of $5.00 a year but people are tired of Albi.

Like he said, he doesn't care.... Not even a little. That's why he never posts about it. Never.

 

[dgibbons]

$150 requires you to eat the rubber eggs and sausage at the “free breakfast”. Of course my family is quite used to such quality meals.

Carbs in the morning- waffles, bagels, toast, yogurt, cereal and of course some OJ. I'll try the fruit if it looks decent. Priceline express deals are the way to go.

 

[CougPatrol]

Gonzaga's gearing up to add football in a few years. Count on it.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Does it matter? It's happening. It's done. Could have an infusion of $5.00 a year but people are tired of Albi.

You get that this Sportsplex is not a football facility, right? So I'm not sure what your Albi reference is about. But then again, I don't care.

 

[Coug95man2]

You get that this Sportsplex is not a football facility, right? So I'm not sure what your Albi reference is about. But then again, I don't care.

Do you really think this specific section of that development would happen without the football portion? The land above (north) is where I understand the football field to go. They are presenting it in portions, but it's an "all or nothing" proposition, right?

 

[Observer11]

Do you really think this specific section of that development would happen without the football portion? The land above (north) is where I understand the football field to go. They are presenting it in portions, but it's an "all or nothing" proposition, right?

No. The Sportsplex will be built whether the stadium is located there or not. There are ongoing discussions between the city, PFD and school district that need ironed out before the stadium is folded in. It won't be under the same bond or financing. The stadium will be a totally different operating agreement with the school district.

I know a lot more but don't want to end up in the river swimming with Luca Brasi so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Coug95man2]

No. The Sportsplex will be built whether the stadium is located there or not. There are ongoing discussions between the city, PFD and school district that need ironed out before the stadium is folded in. It won't be under the same bond or financing. The stadium will be a totally different operating agreement with the school district.

I know a lot more but don't want to end up in the river swimming with Luca Brasi so I'll just leave it at that.

Good to know. I guess I didn't really take into reasoning the legal aspect. I was just meaning that without one, the city, the school district, etc. wouldn't be doing the other.

My overarching point being... lets pretend the Sportsplex doesn't happen but the football complex does (or vice versa, whatever). The same Sportsplex won't be tweaked then rammed in again? And if it's just a dead turkey, they won't find another sports orientated "thing" to put there? It's happening. Albi was the feather that broke the camels back. Now the "give an inch, they'll take a mile" of that is a massive sports complex in the middle of town.

These kinds of drawings, renderings, plans, land talks with city and schools, etc. don't happen within a short period of time. This has been in the works for quite a while and because of that, it WILL happen. Too much money and time has been spent for this to die on the vine.

I appreciate your focus to fact, Observer. You are right. I was just looking at it from a different angle.

 

[Observer11]

Sportsplex is a thing regardless of stadium status. There is tremendous demand for this facility and both the PFD and Sports Commission are all over it.

Spokane has its warts but if there is one thing it is REALLY good at, it is putting on sporting events. Hoopfest, Bloomsday, perennial NCAA tourney host, lots of national/regional events. The Sportsplex will take it to another level and is a big component for further economic development in the region.

The fact the County signed on with $$ is evidence of that - those guys can't agree on anything.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Gonzaga's gearing up to add football in a few years. Count on it.

A joke by CougPatrol maybe?

Observer11, have you heard anything on this subject?

No matter how unlikely it seems (and can't believe CMF would sign off on this), I keep reading here and elsewhere that the sports pecking order in Spokane is:

1. Zags

huge gap

1000. Everyone else

So maybe the folks with clout at GU and in the City of Spokane think they could pull it off

 

[Observer11]

A joke by CougPatrol maybe?

Observer11, have you heard anything on this subject?

No matter how unlikely it seems (and can't believe CMF would sign off on this), I keep reading here and elsewhere that the sports pecking order in Spokane is:

1. Zags

huge gap

1000. Everyone else

So maybe the folks with clout at GU and in the City of Spokane think they could pull it off

It's now on the internet so it must be true.

Honestly, no. Even among my hard drinking Irish-catholic friends, that would take a lot of whiskeys before that even ventured into the realm of their creative thinking.

 

[CougPatrol]

A joke by CougPatrol maybe?

Observer11, have you heard anything on this subject?

No matter how unlikely it seems (and can't believe CMF would sign off on this), I keep reading here and elsewhere that the sports pecking order in Spokane is:

1. Zags

huge gap

1000. Everyone else

So maybe the folks with clout at GU and in the City of Spokane think they could pull it off

A joke for now, yes; but it's going to happen eventually.

 

[Coug95man2]

A joke for now, yes; but it's going to happen eventually.

And the city of Spokane is building them a field in the middle of town!!!! Brilliant!!!

 

[Coug95man2]

I get it, a joke. yada yada. But lets go down the rabbit hole.

If Gonzaga starts up a football program... what will that do to WSU's Spokane market?

If you look back into ancient history, 25 years ago or so (yeah, we had a blip of good stuff with father/son coaching but really beyond that? nada), WSU's downfall in basketball has allowed Gonzaga to gain ground. And if their success in basketball even remotely allows a football program to happen, even 20-40 years from now, just think... It was because WSU didn't pony up for basketball and allowed Gonzaga to get a foothold. Thus... our basketball program could hurt the football program... lol.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Sportsplex is a thing regardless of stadium status. There is tremendous demand for this facility and both the PFD and Sports Commission are all over it.

Spokane has its warts but if there is one thing it is REALLY good at, it is putting on sporting events. Hoopfest, Bloomsday, perennial NCAA tourney host, lots of national/regional events. The Sportsplex will take it to another level and is a big component for further economic development in the region.

The fact the County signed on with $$ is evidence of that - those guys can't agree on anything.

Umm, who is the perennial NCAA Tourney host? I..think..it..is...WSU? Funny, if you go to the Spokane Sports Commission site, they prominently list all of the NCAA tournaments as if they were responsible for them. Now I can see the Facilities District (runs the Arena) taking mucho credit, but the Sports Commission?

I'm starting to get curious now. The Sports Commission appears to be 95% government funded (per their 990), which I assume is Spokane and Spokane County. Their CEO makes well over $100K, and they have 8 FT employees. Nice little operaton. I see our friends ALSC Architects (chosen designer of the Sportsplex - oh and the Jo Albi renovation/replacement) are on the Board of Directors, along with a couple of hotels and construction companies. The Sportsplex, BTW, will have its own $100K manager per their projections, and another 8 or so staff.

The Sportsplex will lose money (per it's own projection), and that doesn't even count debt payments. Those payments, and probably the operating subsidy will be shouldered by the County and/or City and paid for by the elusive increase in tax revenues from all this economic impact.

I know I sound like a little old woman on this and other topics. I know this is a sports site, and we are all predisposed to be sports supporters in all ways. But you really should stand back once in a while and take a devil's advocate view of stuff like this. Peel back the onion a little bit. One thing I have learned in my many years of personal and professional life is that the promoters and economic development types make their livings painting rosy pictures of how much we all will benefit by pouring our tax dollars into these fantastic projects. It's fine to drink the kool-aid - but at least check the ingredients. Another note about ALSC - their primary business is public facilities. They designed the Martin Stadium project and FOB, the kennel, etc. etc. Their principals are making serious coin off of tax dollars. Which is fine, good for them. This is America. Hell I bet a poster or two on this site works for them or is a principal. But to be on the Board of a taxpayer-supported entity that promotes building tax-funded facilities seems a little like a conflict of interest for the company that gets paid to design them!

Ok, now I'm done. 'Cuz I don't care.

 

[Observer11]

Umm, who is the perennial NCAA Tourney host? I..think..it..is...WSU? Funny, if you go to the Spokane Sports Commission site, they prominently list all of the NCAA tournaments as if they were responsible for them. Now I can see the Facilities District (runs the Arena) taking mucho credit, but the Sports Commission?

I'm starting to get curious now. The Sports Commission appears to be 95% government funded (per their 990), which I assume is Spokane and Spokane County. Their CEO makes well over $100K, and they have 8 FT employees. Nice little operaton. I see our friends ALSC Architects (chosen designer of the Sportsplex - oh and the Jo Albi renovation/replacement) are on the Board of Directors, along with a couple of hotels and construction companies. The Sportsplex, BTW, will have its own $100K manager per their projections, and another 8 or so staff.

The Sportsplex will lose money (per it's own projection), and that doesn't even count debt payments. Those payments, and probably the operating subsidy will be shouldered by the County and/or City and paid for by the elusive increase in tax revenues from all this economic impact.

I know I sound like a little old woman on this and other topics. I know this is a sports site, and we are all predisposed to be sports supporters in all ways. But you really should stand back once in a while and take a devil's advocate view of stuff like this. Peel back the onion a little bit. One thing I have learned in my many years of personal and professional life is that the promoters and economic development types make their livings painting rosy pictures of how much we all will benefit by pouring our tax dollars into these fantastic projects. It's fine to drink the kool-aid - but at least check the ingredients. Another note about ALSC - their primary business is public facilities. They designed the Martin Stadium project and FOB, the kennel, etc. etc. Their principals are making serious coin off of tax dollars. Which is fine, good for them. This is America. Hell I bet a poster or two on this site works for them or is a principal. But to be on the Board of a taxpayer-supported entity that promotes building tax-funded facilities seems a little like a conflict of interest for the company that gets paid to design them!

Ok, now I'm done. 'Cuz I don't care.

Actually -the University of Idaho has been the NCAA tourney host in Spokane the last couple times....because the previous WSU AD didn't think it was worth the effort or exposure. Or because he just hates basketball.

I hope you feel better now that you have all that out of your system, too.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Actually -the University of Idaho has been the NCAA tourney host in Spokane the last couple times....because the previous WSU AD didn't think it was worth the effort or exposure. Or because he just hates basketball.

I hope you feel better now that you have all that out of your system, too.

Ooops - thanks for the UI tourney correction. And yes I feel better. I will REEAALLY try to let this thread go now.

On a completely related topic, it's Cougs tonight with Klay against the Spurs (RIP Coach Pop's wife), and Cougs again tomorrow with Baynes against the Bucks.

Oh and one last thing - can we at least beat fricking Gonzaga in Baseball? I know we throw our best guys against the Pac-12 opponents, but Geez! Throw our Friday night starter again on Tuesday then rest him until Sunday. C'mon!

 

[PeteTheChop]

Even among my hard drinking Irish-catholic friends, that would take a lot of whiskeys before that even ventured into the realm of their creative thinking.

A joke for now, yes; but it's going to happen eventually.

So if Gonzaga DID add a football program, how would that affect WSU (if at all)?

I can't imagine it would be too big of a deal.

But I am sure there are Zags who think if "Mega-Conferences" become reality and the Pac-12 looks to become the Pac-16 or even Pac-20, then GU could get an invite because of Spokane's status as a Top 100 Market and the university's success in men's basketball, women's basketball, etc.

A Pac expansion bid seems unlikely, but I never figured GU would get anywhere near the Final Four, either.

 

[Coug95man2]

So if Gonzaga DID add a football program, how would that affect WSU (if at all)?

I can't imagine it would be too big of a deal.

But I am sure there are Zags who think if "Mega-Conferences" become reality and the Pac-12 looks to become the Pac-16 or even Pac-20, then GU could get an invite because of Spokane's status as a Top 100 Market and the university's success in men's basketball, women's basketball, etc.

A Pac expansion bid seems unlikely, but I never figured GU would get anywhere near the Final Four, either.

I could see it affecting Spokanites willing to go down to WSU to watch a game. Regardless of conference, or anything else. The bandwagon'ers would stick around Spokane. Cougs would go down to Pullman.

And even if it was possible, and both parties willing, to schedule opposite, home and away. It would still go to fatigue of going every weekend for the bandwagon'ers.

Spokane is a vital part of WSU's attendance. This could truly hurt WSU if it ever truly materialized.

 

[Loyal Coug]

I could see it affecting Spokanites willing to go down to WSU to watch a game. Regardless of conference, or anything else. The bandwagon'ers would stick around Spokane. Cougs would go down to Pullman.

And even if it was possible, and both parties willing, to schedule opposite, home and away. It would still go to fatigue of going every weekend for the bandwagon'ers.

Spokane is a vital part of WSU's attendance. This could truly hurt WSU if it ever truly materialized.

C'mon guys. This is a ridiculous premise. No, Gonzaga will never add Football. EVER. 0% chance. EVER. What league would they play in? Not the WCC - they don't play FB. Not a lesser league (Big Sky), that would be bad for their beloved Basketball program. The Mountain West? Maybe, if they build a 30,000 seat stadium. And fill it. And where will this stadium be located? Spangle? And what men's sports will they cut and what women's sports will they add to comply with Title IX? `And on and on and on.......

 

[froropmkr72]

C'mon guys. This is a ridiculous premise. No, Gonzaga will never add Football. EVER. 0% chance. EVER. What league would they play in? Not the WCC - they don't play FB. Not a lesser league (Big Sky), that would be bad for their beloved Basketball program. The Mountain West? Maybe, if they build a 30,000 seat stadium. And fill it. And where will this stadium be located? Spangle? And what men's sports will they cut and what women's sports will they add to comply with Title IX? `And on and on and on.......

There's some Div I basketball schools with FCS football. Davidson, Butler, Georgetown, Villanova and Stephen F Austin.

 

[PeteTheChop]

What league would they play in? The Mountain West? Maybe, if they build a 30,000 seat stadium. And fill it.

I share this skepticism Loyal Coug.

BUT there are those like CougPatrol who know more than I (and perhaps, you, too) who insist it will happen one day.

Not sure what WSU alumni in Spokane can actually do to prevent the GU Football movement from gaining momentum, although no longer morphing into this odd CougZag hybrid creature during basketball season might help.

 

[Loyal Coug]

There's some Div I basketball schools with FCS football. Davidson, Butler, Georgetown, Villanova and Stephen F Austin.

Ok, you are making me work now. And darn you if you aren't correct. In fact, fellow WCC member San Diego plays FCS football - in the Pioneer League, a non-scholarship D1-AA Football only conference. Their nearest foe is Drake (Iowa), and they face Stetson (Florida) and Marist (New York) as well. Yeah I suppose the Zags could join that league and really compete with the Pac-12 Cougs for fan interest.

Now that we are being silly, I suppose the Big Sky, which does have 2 FB-only teams (why San Diego isn't in that league I don't know) might let them in. After all, with Idaho joining this year they only have 14 FB playing teams. And Eastern would probably love to have a rival 10 miles away sucking away their fan base. Gee - they could share Roos Field! Martin Stadium would become a wasteland on Saturdays as thousands upon thousands of sports-loving Spokanites flocked to the Inferno to watch Gonzaga take on Southern Utah. Spokane never supported the Cougs anyway. Or so said someone once.

http://www.pioneer-football.org/pfl/default/

 

[Observer11]

Gonzaga isn’t starting a football program. Period. Ever.

There’s no facility in the area. The area doesn’t support football as is. There’s no tradition of football at Gonzaga and they’d have to start at the bottom. That’s not the Gonzaga mentality and hasn’t been for at least a couple decades.

They have no incentive to move to the Big Sky which would be a step down in most of their sports - many of which aren’t even offered in that conference. Their only move is to the Mountain West and they just rejected them a couple weeks ago.

Not gonna happen.

 

[froropmkr72]

Ok, you are making me work now. And darn you if you aren't correct. In fact, fellow WCC member San Diego plays FCS football - in the Pioneer League, a non-scholarship D1-AA Football only conference. Their nearest foe is Drake (Iowa), and they face Stetson (Florida) and Marist (New York) as well. Yeah I suppose the Zags could join that league and really compete with the Pac-12 Cougs for fan interest.

Now that we are being silly, I suppose the Big Sky, which does have 2 FB-only teams (why San Diego isn't in that league I don't know) might let them in. After all, with Idaho joining this year they only have 14 FB playing teams. And Eastern would probably love to have a rival 10 miles away sucking away their fan base. Gee - they could share Roos Field! Martin Stadium would become a wasteland on Saturdays as thousands upon thousands of sports-loving Spokanites flocked to the Inferno to watch Gonzaga take on Southern Utah. Spokane never supported the Cougs anyway. Or so said someone once.

http://www.pioneer-football.org/pfl/default/

 

[wazzucougs96]

Gonzaga basketball is wildly popular here and they still elected to build a small, 6k seat arena. It is a small school with a small alumni base. Football would be a massive disaster for them. That isn't happening.

 

[WASH ST A&M FAN]

I’ll never understand why many WSU Fans get upset about a “Spokane” based University fan base has grown with “Spokane Citizens” ???

 

[Loyal Coug]

I’ll never understand why many WSU Fans get upset about a “Spokane” based University fan base has grown with “Spokane Citizens” ???

Were you drunk when you wrote that post? (No worries, I usually am ) It is just so grammatically messed up.

Anyway, if I understand what you meant, drunky, why are Cougs fans snarly about Spokane's love fest with Gonzaga?

Well today is a good example. The Spokesman had a big article on former Zags playing Non-NBA professionally. (Basketball, because as we know they don't have Football). On the day of our spring game. FYI, 6 hours after it ended, no real story out there on their site.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/apr/20/former-gonzaga-stars-kevin-pangos-kyle-wiltjer-cla/#/0
Geezus - go to the bottom. Every guy that walked by the campus is listed.

Well gee - how about an article about the COUGS playing pro elsewhere. I am quite sure that Taylor Rochestie is more prominent in Europe than Kevin Pangos.

 

[WASH ST A&M FAN]

Loyal,

Thanks for making my point.

Take-A-Ways - Spokane People/Newspaper:

1) Spokane Citizens shouldn’t be Zag Fans
2) Spokesman-Review needs to lighten Zag Focus

I live in Chandler Arizona & can see the pettiness from here.