Well league expansion talks have begun again, Texas and OU looking to get out of the big 12 which only has 10 teams would leave it with 8. So do you add those remaining big 12 teams to the Pac 12 and you have a 20 team east and west league, or does the Big 12 raid the ACC? There is talk of the SEC expanding to a 32 team league, same as the NFL, so that would end up being a triple A league of sorts for the NFL. And the rest are left scrambling, Only 3 weeks after the NIL options for the players and now we are reshuffling the league deck. While all this sounds interesting College football has changed a lot over the years. The bowl games and the tie ins were fairly consistent for about 70 years, until the Playoff started, and that change will be nothing to the next 5 years, which I believe will totally restructure college sports. There could be be 32 teams in a "super league" and then the rest in some lower tier. If you are one of the 32, I suppose it's great, if not, if guess you try to be the best of the rest.
Texas and OU going to the SEC
- Thread starter roses04
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You mean the “Big12”? There’s no way Nebraska leaves the “Big10” to go back to a Texas & Oklahoma’less Big12.
I work with a Sooner grad and an A&M grad. The Sooner grad is excited. The A&M grad sees Texas and says, "F those guys, we don't want 'em".
I'd say there's a near zero percent chance Nebraska leaves the Big10 for the Big12, and a less than zero percent chance they do so if Texas & Oklahoma leave the Big12. What would be their incentive?
Down the road, I see 4 large regional conferences. Southeast, East, Central, and West. Each of them have between 20-30 teams. The National playoff will consist of each conference playing off the top-8 teams to establish a final-4. This would make financial and travel sense for the student athletes. The issue of course would be revenue sharing. There's no way USC and other programs out West would want to share equally with the likes of WSU, Wyoming, etc. Bigger schools in the bigger markets will command a larger piece of the pie.
If Oklahoma, Texas goto SEC, The Big 12 is Dead.
Nebraska wouldnt go back to Bug 12, and a Big 12 without at least 1 of Oklahoma or Texas, isnt going to be able to get anybody from the SEC, ACC, Big 10, Pac 12
The SEC, BiG 10, PAC 12, ACC will divvy up the remaining teams.
Texas Tech/Baylor goto either SEC, Pac 12. KSU would goto Pac 12, Kansas would goto either Big 10 or Pac 12. West Virginia would goto either ACC or Big 10, TCU would either goto SEC or Pac 12 or Mountain West, or Group of 5 mid major conference. Ok St, would goto either the Pac 12, Big 10 or SEC
Pac 12 would have 14 teams. Big 10 would have 16. Sec would have 16, ACC would have 14. Any Big 12 teams not finding a P4 conference, would goto a Group of 5 mid major conference.
I think its just a matter of time until Oklahoma and Texas leave the Big 12 and cause the Death of the Big 12.
The Big 12 might take Houston, and 1,2,3 Group of 5, Mid Major teams to temporarily stay alive.
But within 3 to 5 to 7 years after Oklahoma, Texas leave Big 12, the SEC, Big 10, ACC, Pac 12 would gradually, slowly, eventually start to peel teams away from the Big 12 every 2 years, until it killed the Big 12.
The Big 12 is a DOOMED conference.
The only questions are where are the Big 12 teams going to go, and how long will it take for the Big 12 to die.
Nebraska wouldnt go back to Bug 12, and a Big 12 without at least 1 of Oklahoma or Texas, isnt going to be able to get anybody from the SEC, ACC, Big 10, Pac 12
The SEC, BiG 10, PAC 12, ACC will divvy up the remaining teams.
Texas Tech/Baylor goto either SEC, Pac 12. KSU would goto Pac 12, Kansas would goto either Big 10 or Pac 12. West Virginia would goto either ACC or Big 10, TCU would either goto SEC or Pac 12 or Mountain West, or Group of 5 mid major conference. Ok St, would goto either the Pac 12, Big 10 or SEC
Pac 12 would have 14 teams. Big 10 would have 16. Sec would have 16, ACC would have 14. Any Big 12 teams not finding a P4 conference, would goto a Group of 5 mid major conference.
I think its just a matter of time until Oklahoma and Texas leave the Big 12 and cause the Death of the Big 12.
The Big 12 might take Houston, and 1,2,3 Group of 5, Mid Major teams to temporarily stay alive.
But within 3 to 5 to 7 years after Oklahoma, Texas leave Big 12, the SEC, Big 10, ACC, Pac 12 would gradually, slowly, eventually start to peel teams away from the Big 12 every 2 years, until it killed the Big 12.
The Big 12 is a DOOMED conference.
The only questions are where are the Big 12 teams going to go, and how long will it take for the Big 12 to die.
My guess is that it's more likely to be four sixteen team conferences in the top tier. Anything larger than sixteen teams and there is no cohesiveness at all and one could argue that even 16 teams is too much. The biggest issue that I see as a Coug fan is your last comment. Does WSU become a liability where other schools take our place?
Interesting times. My A&M cohort in the office is convinced that KU and Iowa State are likely to end up in the B1G, although the Cyclones might not be a preferred target.
I could see the Pac-12 being interested in KSU, O-State, and TCU from the current Big 12 (assuming that KU is off the table). Texas Tech was a target back in the day and while I'm not excited about them, they are a lot more appealing that WVU and Baylor.
The money won't be spread amongst 80-120 teams. More like 64.
There are what, 130 FBS teams right now?
The B12 is on life support and likley the priest is in the room and a nurse is reaching for the plug. I'd be shocked if the P12 doesn't try to line up something within the state of Texas, market wise Baylor/TCU and Houston make far more sense than what TT brings given their alumni baseses in the Dallas area, but academics is the wild card. Geographically, I hate it, but what are you gonna do. I still wonder about getting to 16 and if UNLV makes sense, especially if you can find that dance partner for them.
If they are happy as the P14 I'd bet on TCU and Houston coming in, if its P16 I don't know, maybe those two and UNLV some partner like Colorado St., SDSU, maybe something like Iowa St., but its hard to see the scenario that makes sense.
If they are happy as the P14 I'd bet on TCU and Houston coming in, if its P16 I don't know, maybe those two and UNLV some partner like Colorado St., SDSU, maybe something like Iowa St., but its hard to see the scenario that makes sense.
I think that Oklahoma St, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, KSU, Iowa St, Kansas are all semi viable possibilities, candidates for the Pac 12.
Not saying the Pac 12 will get them, or that the Pac 12 would try to get them.
But enough is there that the Pac 12 will get at least 2 of them and goto at least 14 teams.
The Texas colleges would goto either SEC or Pac 12. They won't goto Big 10 or ACC.
Ok St. goes to either Big 10 or Pac 12, maybe SEC, but unlikely, and NOT to ACC.
KSU, Kansas, Iowa St, goto either Big 10 or Pac 12, probably not to SEC, and NOT to ACC,
ACC, only gets 1,2 of the teams, and that is probably West Virginia, and 1 other team. West Virginia could also end up in the Big 10.
I see ACC at 14 teams. Big 10 and Sec at 16 to 18 teams, and Pac 12 at 14 to 16 teams.
Not saying the Pac 12 will get them, or that the Pac 12 would try to get them.
But enough is there that the Pac 12 will get at least 2 of them and goto at least 14 teams.
The Texas colleges would goto either SEC or Pac 12. They won't goto Big 10 or ACC.
Ok St. goes to either Big 10 or Pac 12, maybe SEC, but unlikely, and NOT to ACC.
KSU, Kansas, Iowa St, goto either Big 10 or Pac 12, probably not to SEC, and NOT to ACC,
ACC, only gets 1,2 of the teams, and that is probably West Virginia, and 1 other team. West Virginia could also end up in the Big 10.
I see ACC at 14 teams. Big 10 and Sec at 16 to 18 teams, and Pac 12 at 14 to 16 teams.
I just don't see the conference considering UNLV, CSU or SDSU. None of those teams bring enough to the table. Iowa State is a candidate, but I think they try for the B1G if Iowa doesn't fight it too hard.
TCU should be a top target. KSU and O-State both bring far more value than any school west of the Big 12 footprint. I mentioned it another thread but F Baylor. That place is a disgusting, hypocritical and dirty as hell.
I get what you are saying about Tech but they were a target in 2011. Houston would be an intriguing pick outside the Big 12.
What would be interesting is that it would be the original Pac-8 in the western division and all the new teams in the eastern division. Go to a 10 game conference schedule and it might be interesting.
I foresee a pod system:
NW schools
California Schools
AZ schools + UT/CO
New schools
Play everyone in your pod, and a secondary pod (NW and Cali; then the other 8)
Then play the rest of the conference cross overs and a home game every four years, etc. Basically what this possible SEC format is below:
I don't think TCU gets in and I think Baylor is hairy. I think Houston has a better chance - huge market, Texas, etc.
OK State, Houston, Tech, and UNLV (Vegas market) are all Research 1 universities.
Is the Pac12 willing to loosen their restrictions academically? That’s the million dollar question. I believe, and I haven’t checked this in a while, UH is the only school of the oft mentioned, that qualifies as a Tier 1 research institution.
Also, I believe there has been hesitancy to add religious institutions, which has been the reason BYU hasn’t been considered.
If Stanford/Cal/the SoCals are willing to plug their noses and take anyone, then it would be interesting to take BYU to pair with Utah, TCU & UH as Texas rivals, then SDSU to grab that market.
It's not that BYU is a religious institution.....it's that they operate under the delusion that God will smite the Mormons if they compete in athletic events on a Sunday.
No offense to BYU, SDSU and Houston, I hope that the Pac-12 is moving aggressively on Big 12 schools while the opportunity is there. KSU gives the Pac-12 access to the #32 and #72 TV markets and a 30 year history of quality football as well as recent (and historic) success in basketball, O-State brings the #43 and #58 markets and a program that has been very well funded for years. TCU is in the #5 market (Baylor does too in some respects, but we don't need two schools for that) and they are known for their quality play in football. Texas Tech is the weakest link but at the same time, there are a number of mid-size markets nearby (Amarillo, Lubbock, Odessa-Midland and Abilene) and they've had moments in both football and basketball. We can reminisce about Leach with them.
BYU brings their no-Sundays baggage and SDSU is in a market that the Pac-12 already has strong access to. Houston would be an intriguing addition and is the only non Big 12 addition that I find interesting. No offense to SDSU, but I think that they will struggle with the change to the Pac-12 (16?) in football for a while.
The one Big 12 team that I really hate is Baylor. They are just so damned dirty and I hope that they aren't invited. Of course, that means that they'll be the first team in.
Not playing on Sunday's would be easy enough to work around. I don't think BYU would draw the number of eyeballs necessary to justify adding them to the conference though.
With the changing landscape, maybe the Pac-12 schools would be interested, but with the Pac-12 commissioner's recent comments about a "high barrier", I'm guessing that BYU needs to get over itself first. I agree that BYU could be a great addition.
At this point, I could see the following setup if BYU is involved:
Pac-12 NW - UO, OSU, UW, WSU
Pac-12 California - USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal
Pac-12 Mountain - UA, ASU, BYU, Utah
Pac-12 Midwest - CU, KSU, O-State, TCU
I know that Texas Tech and Baylor are going to be making a run at the Pac-12 if they feel like the Big 12 is dead. We'll see what happens.
I don't think BYU brings much to the table. We already have the Utah market and they arent a power the way they were 30+ years ago.
But if we were so inclined to bring them in, I don't see the Sunday thing being a huge obstacle. Simply don't schedule them on Sundays. On the rare occasion where TV comes into play we just won't feature BYU. Someone needs to be available for Wednesday/Friday match ups in basketball.
I'm fine with leaving Baylor out.
Looks like we need to go after KSU, Texas Tech and O-State. Sub in UNLV for BYU (even if I think UNLV would be a disaster competitively).
I'm fine with leaving Baylor out.
Looks like we need to go after KSU, Texas Tech and O-State. Sub in UNLV for BYU (even if I think UNLV would be a disaster competitively).
KSU and Tech don't bring much to the table except another person wanting a check.
Houston, TCU, Oklahoma St and Baylor. Happy to bring Tech instead of Oklahoma St if we get 4 Texas teams I'd be ok with that. Gobbling up the Texas schools keeps another P5 from expanding into Texas as well.
What does Baylor bring to the table if we get TCU? They bring recent football and basketball success, but given their history in the past two decades, there is a scandal brewing that just hasn't shown up yet. There isn't a dirtier school on the planet than Baylor. Twenty years ago, their coaches were willing to participate in the coverup for a murder. Less than ten years ago, they were covering up rapes. That place is dirty AF.
TCU brings the Dallas-Fort Worth TV market and exposure in Texas. Their basketball is mediocre, but they bring consistency in football. TCU is the Texas version of Utah. And they don't let their religious affiliation control how they run their athletic department unlike some other places ::cough:: BYU ::cough::
KSU brings a lot more to the table than you might realize. Their alums live in the #34 and #70 ranked TV markets. They've been to the Elite 8 in basketball in the past five years and been in the conversation for the CFP in the past decade (along with three seasons where they made an appearance in the Top 10 at some point). You can trust me when I say that we wished that we had Klineman instead of Rolovich as our coach. They have been spending boatloads of money on facility improvements for the past decade. I took a tour of the West Stadium Improvement project when it was built and it is unbelievable how much their fans pay to watch games. They have fan support that we can only dream of. When you suggest that KSU is just a mouth to feed, you are saying so many negative things about WSU. KSU isn't a juggernaut, but anyone who suggests SDSU, BYU, or Boise State ahead of KSU is just ignorant of the contributions that are possible from each school.
O-State is kind of like Oregon lite in terms of a big time donor funding their athletic improvements. T. Boone Pickens jumpstarted their upgrades 15 years ago and their fans have ran with it. The good thing about O-State is that they don't have the same arrogance that Duck fans ooze. Texas Tech isn't a bad school, but O-State would be a far more significant partner than Tech.
Houston is obviously a great choice in terms of TV market and desire to compete at a high level. The real question is whether or not they can actually compete. In 2019, our team proved to be fairly mediocre, but we easily handled them on their own turf......well.....in their own city. It's been five years since they've finished with fewer than 5 losses and they went 4-8 last year when faced with a tough schedule. I wouldn't turn down Houston, but they are nearly 2200 miles away from Pullman. Relatively easy to fly to though.
I just hope that the Pac-12 works hard to find the best path forward that keeps us competitive with the other super conferences that are looking to form. Whether that be the Texas schools or some other combination is fine to me. I just don't see SDSU, UNLV and Boise State as programs that move the needle nationally and hope we avoid that type of expansion. Nobody is staying up late to watch Oregon State take on the Aztecs.
Baylor has gotten caught. Plenty of schools are dirtier, and better at not getting caught.
Interesting breakdown from a redditor about revenue in the B12.
Sharing it to hopefully have it positively contribute to additional dialogue around the subject:
Sharing it to hopefully have it positively contribute to additional dialogue around the subject:
There are 6M Mormons in the US. I think BYU provides a pretty good number of eyeballs.
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