The first of donors to come pulling their $$$ support of WSU athletics?

[Loyal Coug]

I'm genuinely curious how this "Leach should shut up about politics" sentiment divides along party lines. In other words, is it politics or is it the wrong politics? I won't ask for voter registration cards here but I suspect a lot of people who would tolerate any other facet of CML's behavior draw the line at what they're euphemistically calling "politics."

Just to distance myself fashionably, I'm 100% against bringing politics where it doesn't belong: press conferences, college football, school, the workplace, the dinner table, etc. I also vote 3rd party because - like being a Coug fan - I love futility.

I'll bite since I happen to be logged in. No question that the moderate to liberal folks are more worked up about this. And there are more of those (us) in Washington than conservatives. thus likely more Cougs. I would hope that the conservatives and Trump lovers simply rolled their eyes and thought "here come more lies". After all, more educated people, conservative or not, tend to be less enamored with the constant lies and distortions that get spewed out by Breitbart, Fox, etc and are lapped up by the uneducated rednecks.

Now if CML had posted some misleading Trump video, I'm sure there would have been some grumbling here and elsewhere. But of course misleading videos are not necessary, since he lies all the time and says crazy stuff. The post-rally Trump quotes that CNN puts together are hilarious. Can't wait until tomorrow to hear what he is saying tonight in Montana.

 

[Tx64]

I'm genuinely curious how this "Leach should shut up about politics" sentiment divides along party lines. In other words, is it politics or is it the wrong politics? I won't ask for voter registration cards here but I suspect a lot of people who would tolerate any other facet of CML's behavior draw the line at what they're euphemistically calling "politics."

Just to distance myself fashionably, I'm 100% against bringing politics where it doesn't belong: press conferences, college football, school, the workplace, the dinner table, etc. I also vote 3rd party because - like being a Coug fan - I love futility.

It is a hot topic both ways, but Trump does go beyond Republican politics to the extreme. I am aware that the Democrats have moved left while Obama was in office. The Democrats seem to be moving further left. I do not see how it helps recruiting for Leach to talk politics period. Even at our dinner table it leads to arguments. There is no middle, no compromises. It appears many decisions are being make that goes against the majority. I argues with my teachers in school that the rich were capable of dominating politics against the wishes of the majority. Of course it would help if people could discern what is news and what is commentary and get out to vote. Too many people do not vote and deserve what they get.

 

[Coug1990]

It is a hot topic both ways, but Trump does go beyond Republican politics to the extreme. I am aware that the Democrats have moved left while Obama was in office. The Democrats seem to be moving further left. I do not see how it helps recruiting for Leach to talk politics period. Even at our dinner table it leads to arguments. There is no middle, no compromises. It appears many decisions are being make that goes against the majority. I argues with my teachers in school that the rich were capable of dominating politics against the wishes of the majority. Of course it would help if people could discern what is news and what is commentary and get out to vote. Too many people do not vote and deserve what they get.

It is a matter of perspective. Republicans think that Obama moved the party left. Democrats believe he was a moderate and was right of where a lot of the party actually is. Is what he did any more left than enacting social security, medicare, the civil rights act, etc.

When I was at the gym this evening, a friend of mine brought up that millennial's were lazy and wanted everything free and handed to them. I told that we heard the same thing about our generation when we were young. And before that, those heard the same thing.

I told him that millennial's believe that the generations that preceded them F'd things up and want no part how how we stewarded the country. There have been problems throughout our countries history and somehow we have survived.

Again, it is a matter of perceptive. Millennial's will be fine and figure out how they want our country to be run, as long as we don't F it up too much before they take over.

 

[CougEd]

I'm genuinely curious how this "Leach should shut up about politics" sentiment divides along party lines. In other words, is it politics or is it the wrong politics? I won't ask for voter registration cards here but I suspect a lot of people who would tolerate any other facet of CML's behavior draw the line at what they're euphemistically calling "politics."

Just to distance myself fashionably, I'm 100% against bringing politics where it doesn't belong: press conferences, college football, school, the workplace, the dinner table, etc. I also vote 3rd party because - like being a Coug fan - I love futility.

Chip ...what good comes from aligning yourself with a candidate on either side of the aisle. I would have been equally upset if he introduced bill Clinton , jerry ford, Ronald Reagan at some fund raiser. Nothing good comes from his query.

 

[Loyal Coug]

It is a matter of perspective. Republicans think that Obama moved the party left. Democrats believe he was a moderate and was right of where a lot of the party actually is. Is what he did any more left than enacting social security, medicare, the civil rights act, etc.

When I was at the gym this evening, a friend of mine brought up that millennial's were lazy and wanted everything free and handed to them. I told that we heard the same thing about our generation when we were young. And before that, those heard the same thing.

I told him that millennial's believe that the generations that preceded them F'd things up and want no part how how we stewarded the country. There have been problems throughout our countries history and somehow we have survived.

Again, it is a matter of perceptive. Millennial's will be fine and figure out how they want our country to be run, as long as we don't F it up too much before they take over.

“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.” Sincerely, Loyal Coug (and Socrates).

And your buddy is right about the millennials. And we are F-ing it up for them. Left and right are all freaks (right is worse though)

 

[random soul]

To Chip's question about "wrong" politics... I think the issue when it comes to Trump, and in this specific instance with Leach, is more about the Alex Jones/Breitbart element that's come to dominate the Republican cultural presence. That stuff is gonna stir the pot and get reactions, and most of it seems designed to do exactly that, facts be damned. Nobody cares if Leach votes Republican, and if he'd endorsed say, Scott Walker or John Kasich during the last primary run, people would've shrugged it off. But Trump specifically is a lightning rod. He picks at scabs that are hundreds of years old. This specific element isn't even a left/right thing. Who takes Jill Stein seriously? It's the combo of the Trump endorsement and especially the conspiracy vid that made people go 'whoa dude, simmer down.' Putting up an encomium to the Weather Underground on one of their attack anniversaries would've gotten an even stronger reaction I assure you. It's less about basic allegiances, or even ideological predilections, and more about cultural hot-buttons and hyperbole winding people up. I don't ever expect to see a Dana Loesch lecture on the potential impact of adjusting the earned income tax credit, or Code Pink Powerpoints on the optimization of the national transportation infrastructure. The heated stuff is what drives reader/viewership, so we'll continue to see it, but the consequences are a minefield, and Leach insisting on tapdancing in it as a nonpolitical public figure seems impulsive and self-destructive.

 

[Tx64]

It is a matter of perspective. Republicans think that Obama moved the party left. Democrats believe he was a moderate and was right of where a lot of the party actually is. Is what he did any more left than enacting social security, medicare, the civil rights act, etc.

When I was at the gym this evening, a friend of mine brought up that millennial's were lazy and wanted everything free and handed to them. I told that we heard the same thing about our generation when we were young. And before that, those heard the same thing.

I told him that millennial's believe that the generations that preceded them F'd things up and want no part how how we stewarded the country. There have been problems throughout our countries history and somehow we have survived.

Again, it is a matter of perceptive. Millennial's will be fine and figure out how they want our country to be run, as long as we don't F it up too much before they take over.

Obama had the second most liberal voting record as a senator. When he became president he tried to move center to govern with boarder support. The party moved left running off many of their moderates, much like the Republicans are doing now. So yes he was liberal, but not as liberal as the Democrat party is heading. As the Republicans move right, the Democrats are moving left. I hope the pendulum eventually moves center for both parties so they will work together.

 

[random soul]

Obama had the second most liberal voting record as a senator. When he became president he tried to move center to govern with boarder support. The party moved left running off many of their moderates, much like the Republicans are doing now. So yes he was liberal, but not as liberal as the Democrat party is heading. As the Republicans move right, the Democrats are moving left. I hope the pendulum eventually moves center for both parties so they will work together.

I suppose that depends on how you define left and right. I ran across a podcast of Ana Marie Cox (liberal, founder of Wonkette and damn funny) talking to Rick Wilson (conservative Repub campaign consultant, also damn funny) and one thing they agreed on was the need to stop pretending that there's any such thing as a 'free market.' Governments pick winners and losers all the time based on how they perceive their interests and what their policy objectives are. So just be up front about it. If you want to tax this, regulate that, break up one monopoly but not another, encourage investment in this bucket but not that one, then make the case for it, with numbers and values and $#!t, rather than pretending that one set of policies is "free market liberty" or "social justice" and the other is predatory or parasitic.

 

[Coug1990]

Obama had the second most liberal voting record as a senator. When he became president he tried to move center to govern with boarder support. The party moved left running off many of their moderates, much like the Republicans are doing now. So yes he was liberal, but not as liberal as the Democrat party is heading. As the Republicans move right, the Democrats are moving left. I hope the pendulum eventually moves center for both parties so they will work together.

Obama was a Muslim. Obama was not born in the USA. Obama hates America. There are many false narratives.

Voting record is subjective and you can measure liberal or conservative many ways and also if the person measuring it has a lean one way or the other. So, to me what you wrote is useless.

We are also talking about a person as a Senator versus a President. The constituencies are normally two different things.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Chip ...what good comes from aligning yourself with a candidate on either side of the aisle. I would have been equally upset if he introduced bill Clinton , jerry ford, Ronald Reagan at some fund raiser. Nothing good comes from his query.

Since Ford and Reagan have both been dead for over a decade, "upset" is not the reaction that I would have if CML introduced them. Amazed maybe. Definitely freaked out.

 

[YakiCoug]

Obama had the second most liberal voting record as a senator. When he became president he tried to move center to govern with boarder support. The party moved left running off many of their moderates, much like the Republicans are doing now. So yes he was liberal, but not as liberal as the Democrat party is heading. As the Republicans move right, the Democrats are moving left. I hope the pendulum eventually moves center for both parties so they will work together.

Candidates from both parties are looking at voting statistics, and those strongly indicate that voters who lean heavily left and heavily right are more likely to vote in elections determining the party nominee. Bernie likely would have faced off against Drumpf had it not been for the DNC's "superdelegates" maneuver favoring Clinton.

 

[YakiCoug]

I suppose that depends on how you define left and right. I ran across a podcast of Ana Marie Cox (liberal, founder of Wonkette and damn funny) talking to Rick Wilson (conservative Repub campaign consultant, also damn funny) and one thing they agreed on was the need to stop pretending that there's any such thing as a 'free market.' Governments pick winners and losers all the time based on how they perceive their interests and what their policy objectives are. So just be up front about it. If you want to tax this, regulate that, break up one monopoly but not another, encourage investment in this bucket but not that one, then make the case for it, with numbers and values and $#!t, rather than pretending that one set of policies is "free market liberty" or "social justice" and the other is predatory or parasitic.

Rick Wilson is funny, witty, and acerbic as hell in his critiques of Drumpf, who probably has a thousand assholes at this point.

 

[YakiCoug]

To Chip's question about "wrong" politics... I think the issue when it comes to Trump, and in this specific instance with Leach, is more about the Alex Jones/Breitbart element that's come to dominate the Republican cultural presence. That stuff is gonna stir the pot and get reactions, and most of it seems designed to do exactly that, facts be damned. Nobody cares if Leach votes Republican, and if he'd endorsed say, Scott Walker or John Kasich during the last primary run, people would've shrugged it off. But Trump specifically is a lightning rod. He picks at scabs that are hundreds of years old. This specific element isn't even a left/right thing. Who takes Jill Stein seriously? It's the combo of the Trump endorsement and especially the conspiracy vid that made people go 'whoa dude, simmer down.' Putting up an encomium to the Weather Underground on one of their attack anniversaries would've gotten an even stronger reaction I assure you. It's less about basic allegiances, or even ideological predilections, and more about cultural hot-buttons and hyperbole winding people up. I don't ever expect to see a Dana Loesch lecture on the potential impact of adjusting the earned income tax credit, or Code Pink Powerpoints on the optimization of the national transportation infrastructure. The heated stuff is what drives reader/viewership, so we'll continue to see it, but the consequences are a minefield, and Leach insisting on tapdancing in it as a nonpolitical public figure seems impulsive and self-destructive.

You can look to the rise of cable news and its thirst for the cheap and sensational to boost profits for some of the current mess. This and social media are tailor made for the mad man in the WH and his 140 characters-at-a- time demagoguery that mesmerizes his undereducated and ignorant base.

(Demagoguery is a manipulative approach — often associated with dictators and sleazy politicians — that appeals to the worst nature of people. Demagoguery isn't based on reason, issues, and doing the right thing; it's based on stirring up fear and hatred to control people. For example, a politician who stirs up a fear of immigrants to distract from other issues is using demagoguery. Demagoguery is one of the most negative aspects of politics, but it's also one that's all too common.)

 

[PINGDUDE4]

To Chip's question about "wrong" politics... I think the issue when it comes to Trump, and in this specific instance with Leach, is more about the Alex Jones/Breitbart element that's come to dominate the Republican cultural presence. That stuff is gonna stir the pot and get reactions, and most of it seems designed to do exactly that, facts be damned. Nobody cares if Leach votes Republican, and if he'd endorsed say, Scott Walker or John Kasich during the last primary run, people would've shrugged it off. But Trump specifically is a lightning rod. He picks at scabs that are hundreds of years old. This specific element isn't even a left/right thing. Who takes Jill Stein seriously? It's the combo of the Trump endorsement and especially the conspiracy vid that made people go 'whoa dude, simmer down.' Putting up an encomium to the Weather Underground on one of their attack anniversaries would've gotten an even stronger reaction I assure you. It's less about basic allegiances, or even ideological predilections, and more about cultural hot-buttons and hyperbole winding people up. I don't ever expect to see a Dana Loesch lecture on the potential impact of adjusting the earned income tax credit, or Code Pink Powerpoints on the optimization of the national transportation infrastructure. The heated stuff is what drives reader/viewership, so we'll continue to see it, but the consequences are a minefield, and Leach insisting on tapdancing in it as a nonpolitical public figure seems impulsive and self-destructive.

"the conspiracy vid"

This quote in itself reveals why this episode is so telling of how out of kilter politics on both sides has become. Everyone is looking for their trigger points and they go with the same talking points whether they fit or not. That video was clearly deceptive in that it only played certain parts of a speech without proper context, however it is a real stretch to call it a "conspiracy" video. Conspiracy of what ? Also find it funny that people are so on edge about it , when to my knowledge Obama is not currently running for anything and will never be President again . This is in line with people even stretching on twitter to somehow make this episode to be somehow racist What in the video or in posting it, is even remotely racist ? "Conspiracy" and "racist" are go to words for the left and they will use them in any context when they are triggered, whether they fit or not.

 

[YakiCoug]

"the conspiracy vid"

This quote in itself reveals why this episode is so telling of how out of kilter politics on both sides has become. Everyone is looking for their trigger points and they go with the same talking points whether they fit or not. That video was clearly deceptive in that it only played certain parts of a speech without proper context, however it is a real stretch to call it a "conspiracy" video. Conspiracy of what ? Also find it funny that people are so on edge about it , when to my knowledge Obama is not currently running for anything and will never be President again . This is in line with people even stretching on twitter to somehow make this episode to be somehow racist What in the video or in posting it, is even remotely racist ? "Conspiracy" and "racist" are go to words for the left and they will use them in any context when they are triggered, whether they fit or not.

I never saw racism as an issue with the fake video, although the far right/alt right is never averse to planting race-based propaganda in any way, shape, or form it can.
To me, the issue was its use by the most prominent WSU employee. If he knew it was false and put it up anyway, shame on him. If he was duped, shame on him. I don't care if he voted (or will vote again) for Drumpf, but I do care when he makes WSU look stupid.

 

[Coug95man2]

I've been gone for the 4th so I'm coming to this late. But I'll say this.

I only wish for consistency. For me, it seems like the goalposts just keep moving. From both sides. When I mentioned this "thing" to my wife, she mentioned that she just wished he wouldn't let stuff like this into the game.

I said, "yeah, the same as if the players wanted to take a knee during the anthem." The conversation got deathly quiet. I wasn't quite in the doghouse but close. Apparently she would be OK if NCAA players followed their NFL counterparts. I honestly don't care, as long as it's consistent.

To me, specifically on this point, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If state employees (carte blanche) can or can not tweet or stump for a candidate, then lets be out with it. But just because CML is "seen" more, doesn't mean his rights are any more or less than the desk jockey in Olympia that shuffles paperwork. That's my opinion. It isn't about what he says. He has that right. The same as any other individual. The idea he's bigger or better or more visible so he needs to censor his voice/actions is ludicrous. Who cares if he's the coach of a football team?! How does that make his opinion any more or less worthy? It doesn't. He's the same as that desk jockey.

It's almost like it's extortion. "He has the right but if I don't like it, I'm gonna ruin him. I'm gonna pull my money." yada yada. It's sick. Hurting him or hurting others because someone doesn't like their thoughts. WTH.

 

[CougEd]

I've been gone for the 4th so I'm coming to this late. But I'll say this.

I only wish for consistency. For me, it seems like the goalposts just keep moving. From both sides. When I mentioned this "thing" to my wife, she mentioned that she just wished he wouldn't let stuff like this into the game.

I said, "yeah, the same as if the players wanted to take a knee during the anthem." The conversation got deathly quiet. I wasn't quite in the doghouse but close. Apparently she would be OK if NCAA players followed their NFL counterparts. I honestly don't care, as long as it's consistent.

To me, specifically on this point, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If state employees (carte blanche) can or can not tweet or stump for a candidate, then lets be out with it. But just because CML is "seen" more, doesn't mean his rights are any more or less than the desk jockey in Olympia that shuffles paperwork. That's my opinion. It isn't about what he says. He has that right. The same as any other individual. The idea he's bigger or better or more visible so he needs to censor his voice/actions is ludicrous. Who cares if he's the coach of a football team?! How does that make his opinion any more or less worthy? It doesn't. He's the same as that desk jockey.

It's almost like it's extortion. "He has the right but if I don't like it, I'm gonna ruin him. I'm gonna pull my money." yada yada. It's sick. Hurting him or hurting others because someone doesn't like their thoughts. WTH.

I've been gone for the 4th so I'm coming to this late. But I'll say this.

I only wish for consistency. For me, it seems like the goalposts just keep moving. From both sides. When I mentioned this "thing" to my wife, she mentioned that she just wished he wouldn't let stuff like this into the game.

I said, "yeah, the same as if the players wanted to take a knee during the anthem." The conversation got deathly quiet. I wasn't quite in the doghouse but close. Apparently she would be OK if NCAA players followed their NFL counterparts. I honestly don't care, as long as it's consistent.

To me, specifically on this point, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If state employees (carte blanche) can or can not tweet or stump for a candidate, then lets be out with it. But just because CML is "seen" more, doesn't mean his rights are any more or less than the desk jockey in Olympia that shuffles paperwork. That's my opinion. It isn't about what he says. He has that right. The same as any other individual. The idea he's bigger or better or more visible so he needs to censor his voice/actions is ludicrous. Who cares if he's the coach of a football team?! How does that make his opinion any more or less worthy? It doesn't. He's the same as that desk jockey.

It's almost like it's extortion. "He has the right but if I don't like it, I'm gonna ruin him. I'm gonna pull my money." yada yada. It's sick. Hurting him or hurting others because someone doesn't like their thoughts. WTH.

If they were equal issues I would hope they would get an equal response. But they aren't equal. He has the right to say what he wants. He hasn't been fired because of it. A matter of fact, I don't see the most powerful man in the world tweeting about it, and changing the tenor of the conversation. Comparatively he got off easy. But I digress.

And just out of curiosity, what if they didn't kneel, but found a different form of protest that would be seen by you. Are you ok with that? Maybe a Black Lives Matters as a warm up jacket they wore during the anthem.

 

[Coug95man2]

If they were equal issues I would hope they would get an equal response. But they aren't equal. He has the right to say what he wants. He hasn't been fired because of it. A matter of fact, I don't see the most powerful man in the world tweeting about it, and changing the tenor of the conversation. Comparatively he got off easy. But I digress.

And just out of curiosity, what if they didn't kneel, but found a different form of protest that would be seen by you. Are you ok with that? Maybe a Black Lives Matters as a warm up jacket they wore during the anthem.

You need to learn to read. I don't care if they took a knee. But then CML's comments should be equally received. See, that's what I mean. Goal posts move. Taking a knee is one thing. But somehow CML is different. I don't agree with that. I only used that as an example of the goal posts moving. Politics in sports.

But to go back to state employees, do you really think CML should be looked at any differently than the desk jockey in Olympia? And I don't mean on some esoteric way. In a societal way. As a society, should CML be looked at with any different emphasis in his opinion than any other? Go with Utopia, here. What should it be?

 

[Loyal Coug]

You need to learn to read. I don't care if they took a knee. But then CML's comments should be equally received. See, that's what I mean. Goal posts move. Taking a knee is one thing. But somehow CML is different. I don't agree with that. I only used that as an example of the goal posts moving. Politics in sports.

But to go back to state employees, do you really think CML should be looked at any differently than the desk jockey in Olympia? And I don't mean on some esoteric way. In a societal way. As a society, should CML be looked at with any different emphasis in his opinion than any other? Go with Utopia, here. What should it be?

Well this is interesting. In theory, CML and the Olympia desk jockey should have the same right to express their opinion. Just like the WSP officer should have the right to hang a Confederate flag in front of his house with his WSP cruiser parked right next to it. But that's not how it works.

https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/new...bove-patrol-car-disturbed-neighbor/726321002/

The trooper took his flag down about 2 minutes after his superiors found out about it.

Now the real question is this: CML posted under his "@Coach_Leach twitter handle. So perhaps he was using his official taxpayer-supported position to espouse political views? A CLEAR violation of state ethics laws, which would land your Olympia desk jockey in hot water. "Coach" means he is referring to himself as a state employee. And was he using his WSU-paid laptop or cell phone to post it? Ethics violation! Rank and file state employees can get fired for such things.

 

[CougEd]

You need to learn to read. I don't care if they took a knee. But then CML's comments should be equally received. See, that's what I mean. Goal posts move. Taking a knee is one thing. But somehow CML is different. I don't agree with that. I only used that as an example of the goal posts moving. Politics in sports.

But to go back to state employees, do you really think CML should be looked at any differently than the desk jockey in Olympia? And I don't mean on some esoteric way. In a societal way. As a society, should CML be looked at with any different emphasis in his opinion than any other? Go with Utopia, here. What should it be?

I read what you said . I never indicated that you said they shouldn’t take a knee in this convo. Never said that was the issue which concerned you . Your issue is fairness or perceived fairness . The moving of goal posts as you stated . I would offer one is playing with nfl rules with wider has marks and the other game is the college game .

I asked the question because in previous comments you made regarding taking a knee and other ways they should protest .

 

[Coug95man2]

Well this is interesting. In theory, CML and the Olympia desk jockey should have the same right to express their opinion. Just like the WSP officer should have the right to hang a Confederate flag in front of his house with his WSP cruiser parked right next to it. But that's not how it works.

https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/new...bove-patrol-car-disturbed-neighbor/726321002/

The trooper took his flag down about 2 minutes after his superiors found out about it.

Now the real question is this: CML posted under his "@Coach_Leach twitter handle. So perhaps he was using his official taxpayer-supported position to espouse political views? A CLEAR violation of state ethics laws, which would land your Olympia desk jockey in hot water. "Coach" means he is referring to himself as a state employee. And was he using his WSU-paid laptop or cell phone to post it? Ethics violation! Rank and file state employees can get fired for such things.

You have good points, Loyal. But I'll say, just because he has "coach" in his handle means nothing. He can be "coach" of life, he can be coach of a 3 man basketball team at Hoopfest, he can be coach of the turtle races in CD'A. That doesn't mean he's connected to any institution. Put WSU in your handle, have the school officially posting for you, things like that... OK then.

Admittedly, the taking a knee is a bad example, in that, the kids aren't "employed". There are a bunch of other reasons that it's a bad example. But the reason I brought that exchange up with my wife was... in society, if there was ever a time when you thought it would have been OK for the kids to take a knee, why wouldn't it be OK for CML to be able to take his personal stance in public? NOW, I say that knowing the video was complete crap. I'm not justifying what he said, just his ability to do so. But I don't know if in this specific instance, that matters. That was my point. I have a hunch there are a least a few posters here that would be OK if the kids took a knee. And if so, there shouldn't be a bunch of outrage over CML doing the same. It's a "look inside ourselves" thing. Not a legal thing. But this goes to personal people thinking that taking away their financial support is a good thing. The initial point of the thread. They are literally trying to hurt him or hurt the school because CML has a different viewpoint. It's veiled in "I can't support that", but your CAF donations DON'T support that. Also, I'll say it again, I know that video was complete BS. I get that. But this conversation was happening when CML stumped for Trump, as well.

But Ed, you still didn't answer my question regarding what society SHOULD be like... Should CML's political opinions mean more than yours? Or mine? Or the desk jockey in Olympia? I'd say in a "perfect world" his opinions are equal to yours, mine and anyone else's. So why shouldn't we act like that, treat the situations like that? "Hey look. CML is stumping for Trump. Meh."

Now of course if we are talking about football, his opinion might mean more. If we are talking about loans, Ed might know more. I get that. But with this...?

 

[CougEd]

You have good points, Loyal. But I'll say, just because he has "coach" in his handle means nothing. He can be "coach" of life, he can be coach of a 3 man basketball team at Hoopfest, he can be coach of the turtle races in CD'A. That doesn't mean he's connected to any institution. Put WSU in your handle, have the school officially posting for you, things like that... OK then.

Admittedly, the taking a knee is a bad example, in that, the kids aren't "employed". There are a bunch of other reasons that it's a bad example. But the reason I brought that exchange up with my wife was... in society, if there was ever a time when you thought it would have been OK for the kids to take a knee, why wouldn't it be OK for CML to be able to take his personal stance in public? NOW, I say that knowing the video was complete crap. I'm not justifying what he said, just his ability to do so. But I don't know if in this specific instance, that matters. That was my point. I have a hunch there are a least a few posters here that would be OK if the kids took a knee. And if so, there shouldn't be a bunch of outrage over CML doing the same. It's a "look inside ourselves" thing. Not a legal thing. But this goes to personal people thinking that taking away their financial support is a good thing. The initial point of the thread. They are literally trying to hurt him or hurt the school because CML has a different viewpoint. It's veiled in "I can't support that", but your CAF donations DON'T support that. Also, I'll say it again, I know that video was complete BS. I get that. But this conversation was happening when CML stumped for Trump, as well.

But Ed, you still didn't answer my question regarding what society SHOULD be like... Should CML's political opinions mean more than yours? Or mine? Or the desk jockey in Olympia? I'd say in a "perfect world" his opinions are equal to yours, mine and anyone else's. So why shouldn't we act like that, treat the situations like that? "Hey look. CML is stumping for Trump. Meh."

Now of course if we are talking about football, his opinion might mean more. If we are talking about loans, Ed might know more. I get that. But with this...?

95....his opinions don't mean more than mine, that isn't the point. The point is they REACH more people than mine, and that Mike Leach stands to do more harm for the employer he works for than I do for mine.

He has every right to express his opinion. But there will be consequences to do so. I would be equally opposed if for example he introduced Hillary Clinton at a fundraiser. He would have every right to do so. Where do you draw the line? What if Leach introduced a grandson of Hitler at some wheat festival? Optics matter.

My wife and I were out test driving a new car for her about two weeks ago. A good friend of mine lends me his Tesla for the week to drive around. He is trying to convince me to go all electric, so that was his sales plug. The only reason I bring up the car I drove to the Lexus dealer is it was fully electric and environmentally friendly. It could have easily been a Leaf. The sales person either had to make the assumption because of the car I drove, or I have raving liberal stamped on my forehead because all of a sudden she engages me in conversation about her political views.

Now on some of those views mirror mine, but the question is why even go there? She either assumed I was a democrat, or she didn't care that I could have been offended by her political views. Again, why go there.

 

[Coug95man2]

95....his opinions don't mean more than mine, that isn't the point. The point is they REACH more people than mine, and that Mike Leach stands to do more harm for the employer he works for than I do for mine.

He has every right to express his opinion. But there will be consequences to do so. I would be equally opposed if for example he introduced Hillary Clinton at a fundraiser. He would have every right to do so. Where do you draw the line? What if Leach introduced a grandson of Hitler at some wheat festival? Optics matter.

My wife and I were out test driving a new car for her about two weeks ago. A good friend of mine lends me his Tesla for the week to drive around. He is trying to convince me to go all electric, so that was his sales plug. The only reason I bring up the car I drove to the Lexus dealer is it was fully electric and environmentally friendly. It could have easily been a Leaf. The sales person either had to make the assumption because of the car I drove, or I have raving liberal stamped on my forehead because all of a sudden she engages me in conversation about her political views.

Now on some of those views mirror mine, but the question is why even go there? She either assumed I was a democrat, or she didn't care that I could have been offended by her political views. Again, why go there.

Lots to unpack there.
You are ignoring the point of "meaning more". If CML's tweet reaches more, but it means the same as you or I, it doesn't matter if he reaches more people. All peoples views are valid. So whoops skip. "Optics matter" only if you're putting more emphasis on his view than your own. So I don't get that. It seems your scared of what OTHERS would think. That's a horrible way to live, in any form. Like I said, we should live the way we think. And it starts on an individual level.

Agreed there are consequences. And that's normal. And that goes to my analogy regarding the scenario of the kids taking a knee. It's CML giving his opinion, it's the kids expressing themselves. Get legal all you want, on a basic, human level it's the same. What people (from both sides) get in a bunch about is the VIEWS, not the ACTIONS. And to me, you'd have to do some serious mental gymnastics to differentiate the two actions, on a personal level.

Regarding, "why go there". Why not? Why is everyone so offended now-a-days? Don't like what's being said, listen politely and move on. Maybe even listen and learn a new perspective? Or engage and have a discussion. Whatever. Now if it was MEANT to offend, then it gives me more reason to blow them off, ignore them, etc. But who cares if a car salesman talked to you? How cool that she felt comfortable enough to talk to you! It's all in how YOU take it.

But in light of CML's tweet, ill-informed as it was, his whole purpose seemed to engage. To have a conversation. But it was not to offend, I don't think. And I like that. Engaging in conversation in a world where everyone is shouting at each other. Nice change of pace.

And I keep trying to keep this in the light of the OP, as well. The logic that pulling CAF donations because someone has a differing view is asinine. Someone wants to hurt our program, hurt our players, in order to hurt CML down the road (aka get him fired I'm assuming would be the idea?). Thats some serious vicious crap, right there. There is no tolerance in that. Because as I've stated and we all know, CAF donations do not "support" CML's views. Nor does it support CML. So that would be a BS reason.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Lots to unpack there.

And I keep trying to keep this in the light of the OP, as well. The logic that pulling CAF donations because someone has a differing view is asinine. Someone wants to hurt our program, hurt our players, in order to hurt CML down the road (aka get him fired I'm assuming would be the idea?). Thats some serious vicious crap, right there. There is no tolerance in that. Because as I've stated and we all know, CAF donations do not "support" CML's views. Nor does it support CML. So that would be a BS reason.

Well I will completely disagree here. Someone pulling their voluntary donations for ANY reason, or no reason at all, is their privilege and not asinine. "Someone wants to hurt our program"? Uh, you mean someone who has been HELPING our program might stop helping? 2 completely different things. It is certainly not "vicious crap". And frankly, since you think everyone should be able to express themselves no matter what, that donor was simply expressing their viewpoint. So you should applaud them.

Finally, of course CAF donations support CML, in that his salary comes from Athletics revenues which include CAF donations.

CML, in his position of visibility, should not have posted that completely misleading, out of context video, regardless of his intent. That was an asinine move on his part, and hopefully he is smart enough to admit that to himself. Or maybe his wife will smack him around until he gets it. There is really no debate about this. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Let's move on.

 

[Coug95man2]

Well I will completely disagree here. Someone pulling their voluntary donations for ANY reason, or no reason at all, is their privilege and not asinine. "Someone wants to hurt our program"? Uh, you mean someone who has been HELPING our program might stop helping? 2 completely different things. It is certainly not "vicious crap". And frankly, since you think everyone should be able to express themselves no matter what, that donor was simply expressing their viewpoint. So you should applaud them.

Finally, of course CAF donations support CML, in that his salary comes from Athletics revenues which include CAF donations.

CML, in his position of visibility, should not have posted that completely misleading, out of context video, regardless of his intent. That was an asinine move on his part, and hopefully he is smart enough to admit that to himself. Or maybe his wife will smack him around until he gets it. There is really no debate about this. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Let's move on.

You bet it's completely up to them. It's asinine if they're doing it as some vendetta or because they don't agree with someone else's view. To me, that is not only asinine but childish. Disagree with views? No problem there. But taking it away from the program for something so normal as differing views... nope. Silly, childish, asinine... you pick the word. He wasn't waving the swastika, his whole tweet was about limited government... A normal political debate.

CAF donors choosing to help via their donations are awesome. Choosing to not, is completely up to them and most of the time, understandable. Expressing themselves and acting in a way that hurts others (the program, the kids) are 2 different things.

You are spot on that the CAF donations go to CML's salary. I'll completely give you that. But you tell me if you can separate CML's salary and say Keith Harrington's scholarship, then go for it. I'd understand that. But you can't. Nor was that even a concept in this thread. It was strictly pulling donations from the whole program. Not earmarking donations for anything BUT CML's salary. So pulling CAF donations hurts the kids, hurts the program just as much as it does CML. And that's sad. And regardless, the anger in that concept is pretty staggering.

 

[CougEd]

Lots to unpack there.
You are ignoring the point of "meaning more". If CML's tweet reaches more, but it means the same as you or I, it doesn't matter if he reaches more people. All peoples views are valid. So whoops skip. "Optics matter" only if you're putting more emphasis on his view than your own. So I don't get that. It seems your scared of what OTHERS would think. That's a horrible way to live, in any form. Like I said, we should live the way we think. And it starts on an individual level.

Agreed there are consequences. And that's normal. And that goes to my analogy regarding the scenario of the kids taking a knee. It's CML giving his opinion, it's the kids expressing themselves. Get legal all you want, on a basic, human level it's the same. What people (from both sides) get in a bunch about is the VIEWS, not the ACTIONS. And to me, you'd have to do some serious mental gymnastics to differentiate the two actions, on a personal level.

Regarding, "why go there". Why not? Why is everyone so offended now-a-days? Don't like what's being said, listen politely and move on. Maybe even listen and learn a new perspective? Or engage and have a discussion. Whatever. Now if it was MEANT to offend, then it gives me more reason to blow them off, ignore them, etc. But who cares if a car salesman talked to you? How cool that she felt comfortable enough to talk to you! It's all in how YOU take it.

But in light of CML's tweet, ill-informed as it was, his whole purpose seemed to engage. To have a conversation. But it was not to offend, I don't think. And I like that. Engaging in conversation in a world where everyone is shouting at each other. Nice change of pace.

And I keep trying to keep this in the light of the OP, as well. The logic that pulling CAF donations because someone has a differing view is asinine. Someone wants to hurt our program, hurt our players, in order to hurt CML down the road (aka get him fired I'm assuming would be the idea?). Thats some serious vicious crap, right there. There is no tolerance in that. Because as I've stated and we all know, CAF donations do not "support" CML's views. Nor does it support CML. So that would be a BS reason.

I'll start with the easiest one first...words matter. Why is everyone so offended so easily these days? I guess there are just a bunch of wussys out there. Let me start with a question...why did your wife get a little bothered by you when this issue came up? Does she not share your thick skin?

In terms of me personally, I care what others think? Not really. But lets say I took that test drive, and the sales person has a discussion and says all black people are lazy, or at least the one's that come through her dealership. Should I be offended by that? Or should I just brush that aside? I mean, why do people get so offended when some of the good people in Charlottesville declare "Jews will not replace us". Heck, they are only words.

Again, words matter, optics matter. Mike Leach is the face of a program that caters to some very different groups of people. He has to make sure the thin skinned democrat donors don't get pissed, and the same time he can't be so soft he runs a foul with hard a$$ Republicans. Meanwhile, the inner city kid that needs to be recruited to a cow town that has no diversity that he has to suck up to them as well. Gawd that feels so freeing that I could end up just saying something and not have any consequences.

 

[Loyal Coug]

I'll start with the easiest one first...words matter. Why is everyone so offended so easily these days? I guess there are just a bunch of wussys out there. Let me start with a question...why did your wife get a little bothered by you when this issue came up? Does she not share your thick skin?

In terms of me personally, I care what others think? Not really. But lets say I took that test drive, and the sales person has a discussion and says all black people are lazy, or at least the one's that come through her dealership. Should I be offended by that? Or should I just brush that aside? I mean, why do people get so offended when some of the good people in Charlottesville declare "Jews will not replace us". Heck, they are only words.

Again, words matter, optics matter. Mike Leach is the face of a program that caters to some very different groups of people. He has to make sure the thin skinned democrat donors don't get pissed, and the same time he can't be so soft he runs a foul with hard a$$ Republicans. Meanwhile, the inner city kid that needs to be recruited to a cow town that has no diversity that he has to suck up to them as well. Gawd that feels so freeing that I could end up just saying something and not have any consequences.

I'm pretty sure you are calling me a wussy and I am offended. Meany. I am pulling all the beers I was going to buy you someday. So there.

 

[Coug95man2]

I'm pretty sure you are calling me a wussy and I am offended. Meany. I am pulling all the beers I was going to buy you someday. So there.

lol. I'll buy you a beer instead... Wuss.

 

[fingerdisco]

“He wasn't waving the swastika, his whole tweet was about limited government... A normal political debate.”

That’s fine, but promoting a deceptively edited bullshit video clip, then assholishly repeating “prove it” when called to the floor is not. That is not a normal political debate, that is fanning the flames, particularly in light of the fact that Dump (Leach’s guy) harassed Obama for years accusing him of not being an American because he’s a black man with a Kenyan father.

 

[Loyal Coug]

I'm pretty sure you are calling me a wussy and I am offended. Meany. I am pulling all the beers I was going to buy you someday. So there.

lol. I'll buy you a beer instead... Wuss.

Just as well. Wussy Ed would let the beer slip through his wussy fingers and it would spill on the ground. Although I suppose his wussy brother might be hanging around and could SPONGE it up! Bwahahahahah!

 

[Coug95man2]

“He wasn't waving the swastika, his whole tweet was about limited government... A normal political debate.”

That’s fine, but promoting a deceptively edited bullshit video clip, then assholishly repeating “prove it” when called to the floor is not. That is not a normal political debate, that is fanning the flames, particularly in light of the fact that Dump (Leach’s guy) harassed Obama for years accusing him of not being an American because he’s a black man with a Kenyan father.

I'm completely with you on President Trumps previous BS. NO question. Complete BS.

CML's reaction with "Prove it" was not done well. I get that. But that's where I don't know what was going on. Did he think the video wasn't doctored? I can only assume that, based on his reaction and then how he pulled the tweet and his response afterwards. And that would go along with how he's always mentioned he isn't the most technical guy in the world. So yeah, he was kind of crass. Given. I'd say maybe worthy of laughing at him and his ineptitude of what an edited video looks like? I don't know. I guess it depends on how angry you are. I shook my head through all of that. It was a real head scratcher. Worthy of hurting our program and players? In my opinion, nope.

 

[Loyal Coug]

“He wasn't waving the swastika, his whole tweet was about limited government... A normal political debate.”

That’s fine, but promoting a deceptively edited bullshit video clip, then assholishly repeating “prove it” when called to the floor is not. That is not a normal political debate, that is fanning the flames, particularly in light of the fact that Dump (Leach’s guy) harassed Obama for years accusing him of not being an American because he’s a black man with a Kenyan father.

I am getting out of this thread but I agree with your comments here. It was not normal debate - well maybe by Faux News standards it was.

Speaking of which - the CNN article about the 91 year old Mexican grandfather, legally up here on his semiannual family visit, out for a walk, gets beat in the head with a cinder block by some crazy white woman and some other passerbys. That is what Trumpworld is doing to our country. Now I'm out of this thread.

 

[fingerdisco]

I'm completely with you on President Trumps previous BS. NO question. Complete BS.

CML's reaction with "Prove it" was not done well. I get that. But that's where I don't know what was going on. Did he think the video wasn't doctored? I can only assume that, based on his reaction and then how he pulled the tweet and his response afterwards. And that would go along with how he's always mentioned he isn't the most technical guy in the world. So yeah, he was kind of crass. Given. I'd say maybe worthy of laughing at him and his ineptitude of what an edited video looks like? I don't know. I guess it depends on how angry you are. I shook my head through all of that. It was a real head scratcher. Worthy of hurting our program and players? In my opinion, nope.

Yeah, I'm not saying we need to take a flamethrower to the place, to quote Frank Slade, but I'd expect more from a guy that everybody calls a genius, and has a law degree. Also, a simple "I was wrong, it won't happen again" comment would have gone a long way...given the way he has punished his players by pushing them in front of the camera post-game to talk about how sh!tty their performance was, it would seem he's a bit hypocritical in not saying he was wrong. At least at this point I can still partition his coaching from his political commentary, but that could change.