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The Legacy Of A Day

Feb 18, 2007
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I waited 24 hours to reactivate this account and compose this post because I didn't want what follows to be overly-influenced by the euphoric afterglow of what transpired yesterday in Pullman. And despite my self-imposed waiting period, I'm afraid my thoughts are likely to still be compromised. Regardless, here goes.

While we have all been witness to bigger games, and greater singular moments in Cougar sports history, what is undebatable is that there has never been a 24-hour period with the potential to reshape the future of WSU athletics, and football, specifically. At the risk of being labelled quixotic, I dare propose that we might someday look back on Saturday as the day that everything changed for WSU.

I say this because two thoughts entered my mind as yesterday came to a close.

First, Wazzu went national. I did something I've never really done before on Saturday, and monitored social media trends during the Gameday broadcast, as well as during the game, specifically looking for mentions of Pullman. Quite frankly, I was blown away by what I read. The consensus impression from neutral observers was overwhelmingly positive. College football fans all around the country saw a large, enthusiastic, passionate fan base; fans that loved their school, loved Pullman and knew how to have a good time. They saw spirit and pride on an epic scale, and remarked that Saturday morning in Pullman represented everything that is good about college football. They were witness to the magic of a true college town. They watched WSU absolutely truck the 12th-ranked team for 30 minutes (a program that is easy to dislike, at that), and likely turned the game off at half-time. They saw an exciting style of football, with an explosive offense that moved up-and-down the field at will and an aggressive, blitzing defense. They heard a loud, amped-up crowd bordering on delirium; a stadium about to blow. And they woke up to images of an ecstatic, fist-pumping, long-haired quarterback, riding the shoulders of those same fans into the Pullman night. And they loved every minute of it.

From start-to-finish, the day could not have gone better for the Wazzu brand, and don't be surprised to find sudden interest in places we never thought possible. And here's the great thing about new fans: They don't know that not every day is like yesterday. They don't know about couging-it. They don't know about students leaving early or the typically empty alumni side, or the weak crowd on 2003 Senior Night. They don't know about the Wulff years or the long bowl droughts. They don't know about 69-0 against USC, or the nearly-annual epic letdowns against UW. They know about Saturday morning and Saturday night. And they know that it was glorious.

And second, a sleeping stadium reawakened, and (hopefully) our fans remembered how FUN Martin stadium can be. For the first time in a long time the atmosphere was truly electric. It was shades of the 2002 wins over USC and Oregon, when the game itself was a party, Martin was rocking, and it was a thing of beauty.

When it's all said and done, the legacy of October 20th could be the national coming-out party we never dreamed possible. It could be our "Uncle Phil opening his wallet" moment. It could be the day that forever altered the trajectory and perception of WSU.

But here's the conviction. Yesterday will only have a legacy if we back it up. Avoid a fatal face-plant next week. Write that check to CAF. Renew those season tickets.

The legacy of yesterday could be the dawning of a new era. Or it could be nothing at all. I'm still elation-drunk enough to believe that anything is possible. Thanks for indulging me.
 
Great post and the second to last paragraph is the most important part of it. Yesterday was awesome and could be the dawn of a new era......if our team continues to play their guts out every week and continues to succeed. In a year where the conference is relatively weak, if we take this weekend and take it to 12-1 and into the Rose Bowl or CFP, everyone will look back at this Gameday and think about what a great place WSU is.

If we do the same thing that we've done the last two seasons and finish on losing streaks, regardless of length, it will have just been a great weekend for Coug fans and nothing more. Of course, there's nothing wrong with that because this WAS a very good weekend regardless. Sometimes you just have to enjoy what you get.
 
I agree Martin was rocking as hard or harder than it has in as long as I can remember. I bet the actual crowd for once was more than announced as I suspect there were about 4 students to every 3 seats. But Martin has been rockin hard for the last 3-4 years for most of the big games - Stanford 15, Oregon 16, USC and BSU in 17.....
There's a reason WSU has won 11 in a row in Martin and 16 of the last 17 but Saturday night took it to a new level.
 
Great post and the second to last paragraph is the most important part of it. Yesterday was awesome and could be the dawn of a new era......if our team continues to play their guts out every week and continues to succeed. In a year where the conference is relatively weak, if we take this weekend and take it to 12-1 and into the Rose Bowl or CFP, everyone will look back at this Gameday and think about what a great place WSU is.

If we do the same thing that we've done the last two seasons and finish on losing streaks, regardless of length, it will have just been a great weekend for Coug fans and nothing more. Of course, there's nothing wrong with that because this WAS a very good weekend regardless. Sometimes you just have to enjoy what you get.

This was maybe the single most significant weekend in modern day WSU football history. The game itself wasn’t bigger than the 1998 Rose Bowl, but due to the emergence of social media, the alumni reach and National impact was immeasurable. It makes no difference if we stumble next weekend or not. The point was made.

This was the first time being a Coug fan was showcased in a 100% positive light. The campus was electric, the weather was fantastic, the behavior of our fans was classy, and the media coverage captured all of it without punchlines or cynicism. Every young person in Eastern WA saw and felt how cool it is to be a WSU fan.

I’m a West Side alumnus with, unfortunately, a lot of ties to UW. My Mom was a program coordinator for the UWMC for 20 years, and throughout my career, I’ve worked with more Husky alumni, medical staff, and Tyee club members than I care to mention. I’ve always fiercely debated that while UW is the best academic school in the NW with regards to graduate programs and rankings, WSU is by far the best place to GO to school in the region. Last weekend conveyed that point perfectly. WSU offers the best college experience of any school on the west coast.
 
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This was maybe the single most significant weekend in modern day WSU football history. The game itself wasn’t bigger than the 1998 Rose Bowl, but due to the emergence of social media, the alumni reach and National impact was immeasurable. It makes no difference if we stumble next weekend or not. The point was made.

This was the first time being Coug fan was showcased in a 100% positive light. The campus was electric, the weather was fantastic, the behavior of our fans was classy, and the media coverage captured all of it without punchlines or cynicism. Every young person in Eastern WA saw and felt how cool it is to be a WSU fan.

I’m a West Side alumnus with, unfortunately, a lot of ties to UW. My Mom was a program coordinator for the UWMC for 20 years, and throughout my career, I’ve worked with more Husky alumni, medical staff, and Tyee club members than I care to mention. I’ve always fiercely debated that while UW is the best academic school in the NW with regards to graduate programs and rankings, WSU is by far the best place to GO to school in the region. Last weekend conveyed that point perfectly. WSU offers the best college experience of any school on the west coast.

uw is not the best academic school in the NW. At anything. At all. Ever. Dont bring the fake news here.
 
You can't put a price tag on the amount of marketing and exposure this gave Wazzu this week. I can't remember how much they said Gonzaga got for their run to the Final Four, but it was tons. Wazzu got 3 hours of free marketing on ESPN. Can't beat that. Then go out and beat Oregon in front of the entire nation? Yea, biggest Saturday in Pullman ever. Not biggest win, but biggest day ever.

This is why you pay Leach whatever because the money he makes Wazzu far exceeds what he makes.
 
You can't put a price tag on the amount of marketing and exposure this gave Wazzu this week. I can't remember how much they said Gonzaga got for their run to the Final Four, but it was tons. Wazzu got 3 hours of free marketing on ESPN. Can't beat that. Then go out and beat Oregon in front of the entire nation? Yea, biggest Saturday in Pullman ever. Not biggest win, but biggest day ever.

This is why you pay Leach whatever because the money he makes Wazzu far exceeds what he makes.

He is what a $6,000,000 per year coach looks like at WSU.

I dunno what other jobs will open this year that would be attractive. I certainly don't see him leaving for a lateral move or down the ladder. There are only so many blue blood schools out there to be had and honestly he probably isn't a good fit at some of them. I would like to think that he wants to keep building his rebuild and see how far he can take it. I highly doubt anyone calling is going to be loaded for a bear hunt with talent and opportunity. So he has to ask himself if he really wants to start all over again.

Name another division in college football with as many ranked teams as the PAC 12 North? It's a short list. If he wanted to coach high end football and compete for a conference title and play off bid WSU offers as strong a scenario as any.
 
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He is what a $6,000,000 per year coach looks like at WSU.

I dunno what other jobs will open this year that would be attractive. I certainly don't see him leaving for a lateral move or down the ladder. There are only so many blue blood schools out there to be had and honestly he probably isn't a good fit at some of them. I would like to think that he wants to keep building his rebuild and see how far he can take it. I highly doubt anyone calling is going to be loaded for a bear hunt with talent and opportunity. So he has to ask himself if he really wants to start all over again.

Name another division in college football with as many ranked teams as the PAC 12 North? It's a short list. If he wanted to coach high end football and compete for a conference title and play off bid WSU offers as strong a scenario as any.

People better buck up. WSU may be one of those programs built on sand ,meaning the rise and fall depends on one man. Leach IS the program . Whether he leaves or not is about money and his relationship with his new bosses .

Spoke to a close friend in Maryland last night and he is still upset that Maryland blew off leach and didn’t offer him the job.

They got rid of Ralph Fridgeon (sic) for his appearance as much as they did his record .
 
People better buck up. WSU may be one of those programs built on sand ,meaning the rise and fall depends on one man. Leach IS the program . Whether he leaves or not is about money and his relationship with his new bosses .

Spoke to a close friend in Maryland last night and he is still upset that Maryland blew off leach and didn’t offer him the job.

They got rid of Ralph Fridgeon (sic) for his appearance as much as they did his record .

Jesus Christ guys.......Yes, Leach is important and we need to keep him happy but honestly.....we won before Mike Leach was our coach and in 16 years of coaching, he's only gotten to 10+ wins one time. In 14 years, Mike Price had three 10 win teams and three Top 10 finishes in the AP poll. Dennis Erickson got us to 9-3, Walden.....the most despised man on this message board behind Wulff.....had us within one game of playing in the Rose Bowl in 1981.

Leach is a great coach and we are lucky to have him, but we only have him right now because he's a crazy bastard and most schools with $6 million per year to throw around don't want a coach who's going to be arguing with people on the internet about anti-Obama memes and making statements that draw attention to him and not the program. He's getting pay raises every year right now. Here is what he is scheduled to make in pay, without factoring in performance bonuses:

2018: $3.5 million
2019: $3.75 million
2020: $4.75 million (if he stays through the end of the season he gets a $750,000 lump sum bonus)
2021: $4.0 million
2022: $4.0 million

Now, when I look at that, I see a guy who's getting more money for the next three years from a school that can't really afford it but they know that they can't afford not to afford it. If we were to modify Leach's contract at this point, what I would say to do is to pay Leach $5.0 million in 2021 and $5.25 million in 2022. If things are still going well at that point, we should be making the money to allow that to happen. I would make the incentive bonuses more significant and I would keep increasing the money available for the assistant coach salary pool. I think it's currently just shy of $3 million and I would work on getting that to $4 million by 2022.

Doing those things and getting an IPF is more important than pissing down our legs in fear that someone is going to offer Leach $6 million.
 
Jesus Christ guys.......Yes, Leach is important and we need to keep him happy but honestly.....we won before Mike Leach was our coach and in 16 years of coaching, he's only gotten to 10+ wins one time. In 14 years, Mike Price had three 10 win teams and three Top 10 finishes in the AP poll. Dennis Erickson got us to 9-3, Walden.....the most despised man on this message board behind Wulff.....had us within one game of playing in the Rose Bowl in 1981.

Leach is a great coach and we are lucky to have him, but we only have him right now because he's a crazy bastard and most schools with $6 million per year to throw around don't want a coach who's going to be arguing with people on the internet about anti-Obama memes and making statements that draw attention to him and not the program. He's getting pay raises every year right now. Here is what he is scheduled to make in pay, without factoring in performance bonuses:

2018: $3.5 million
2019: $3.75 million
2020: $4.75 million (if he stays through the end of the season he gets a $750,000 lump sum bonus)
2021: $4.0 million
2022: $4.0 million

Now, when I look at that, I see a guy who's getting more money for the next three years from a school that can't really afford it but they know that they can't afford not to afford it. If we were to modify Leach's contract at this point, what I would say to do is to pay Leach $5.0 million in 2021 and $5.25 million in 2022. If things are still going well at that point, we should be making the money to allow that to happen. I would make the incentive bonuses more significant and I would keep increasing the money available for the assistant coach salary pool. I think it's currently just shy of $3 million and I would work on getting that to $4 million by 2022.

Doing those things and getting an IPF is more important than pissing down our legs in fear that someone is going to offer Leach $6 million.

Winning cures everything. Winning increases attendance and donations. The IPF will be built a lot faster winning then being cheap and paying a non proven head coach. What makes the university and the athletic department more money? Paying a coach $3.5 million and he goes 4-8, 3-9 over 4 years and we become Oregon State and Kansas of football or paying somebody $6 million, and get Gameday, have a 11 game home winning streak, beat Oregon 4 years in a row, beat Stanford, beat SC, have a record of 32-13 in 4 years?

I can't believe you are so riled up by this. Find a new sport if you can't comprehend paying market value for a top 12 college coach.
 
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I waited 24 hours to reactivate this account and compose this post because I didn't want what follows to be overly-influenced by the euphoric afterglow of what transpired yesterday in Pullman. And despite my self-imposed waiting period, I'm afraid my thoughts are likely to still be compromised. Regardless, here goes.

While we have all been witness to bigger games, and greater singular moments in Cougar sports history, what is undebatable is that there has never been a 24-hour period with the potential to reshape the future of WSU athletics, and football, specifically. At the risk of being labelled quixotic, I dare propose that we might someday look back on Saturday as the day that everything changed for WSU.

I say this because two thoughts entered my mind as yesterday came to a close.

First, Wazzu went national. I did something I've never really done before on Saturday, and monitored social media trends during the Gameday broadcast, as well as during the game, specifically looking for mentions of Pullman. Quite frankly, I was blown away by what I read. The consensus impression from neutral observers was overwhelmingly positive. College football fans all around the country saw a large, enthusiastic, passionate fan base; fans that loved their school, loved Pullman and knew how to have a good time. They saw spirit and pride on an epic scale, and remarked that Saturday morning in Pullman represented everything that is good about college football. They were witness to the magic of a true college town. They watched WSU absolutely truck the 12th-ranked team for 30 minutes (a program that is easy to dislike, at that), and likely turned the game off at half-time. They saw an exciting style of football, with an explosive offense that moved up-and-down the field at will and an aggressive, blitzing defense. They heard a loud, amped-up crowd bordering on delirium; a stadium about to blow. And they woke up to images of an ecstatic, fist-pumping, long-haired quarterback, riding the shoulders of those same fans into the Pullman night. And they loved every minute of it.

From start-to-finish, the day could not have gone better for the Wazzu brand, and don't be surprised to find sudden interest in places we never thought possible. And here's the great thing about new fans: They don't know that not every day is like yesterday. They don't know about couging-it. They don't know about students leaving early or the typically empty alumni side, or the weak crowd on 2003 Senior Night. They don't know about the Wulff years or the long bowl droughts. They don't know about 69-0 against USC, or the nearly-annual epic letdowns against UW. They know about Saturday morning and Saturday night. And they know that it was glorious.

And second, a sleeping stadium reawakened, and (hopefully) our fans remembered how FUN Martin stadium can be. For the first time in a long time the atmosphere was truly electric. It was shades of the 2002 wins over USC and Oregon, when the game itself was a party, Martin was rocking, and it was a thing of beauty.

When it's all said and done, the legacy of October 20th could be the national coming-out party we never dreamed possible. It could be our "Uncle Phil opening his wallet" moment. It could be the day that forever altered the trajectory and perception of WSU.

But here's the conviction. Yesterday will only have a legacy if we back it up. Avoid a fatal face-plant next week. Write that check to CAF. Renew those season tickets.

The legacy of yesterday could be the dawning of a new era. Or it could be nothing at all. I'm still elation-drunk enough to believe that anything is possible. Thanks for indulging me.

What can't be overlooked is the unspoken converse to your post, which is that WSU has had national attention in the past, but its never been 100% positive. Even 1998 was "revenge of the rejects." I mean, a kick ass and take names, multiple NFL/ all american team and that was the resounding theme and what people thought of WSU - the rejects. There simply is no way to put a positive light on that, and honestly it might have been a bigger disservice than we could have imagined at the time.

What came out of Saturday:
  • Pullman is a great place to be
  • WSU football is competitive and wins
  • Football atmosphere is great
  • Football is strongly supported
  • Leach is a gem
  • Cougar fans are fun and can have fun (popcorn guy...)
Great day for Coug Nation. Lets hope the CAF strikes while the iron is hot (unlike 2002, 2003, 2004).
 
Winning cures everything. Winning increases attendance and donations. The IPF will be built a lot faster winning then being cheap and paying a non proven head coach. What makes the university and the athletic department more money? Paying a coach $3.5 million and he goes 4-8, 3-9 over 4 years and we become Oregon State and Kansas of football or paying somebody $6 million, and get Gameday, have a 11 game home winning streak, beat Oregon 4 years in a row, beat Stanford, beat SC, have a record of 32-13 in 4 years?

I can't believe you are so riled up by this. Find a new sport if you can't comprehend paying market value for a top 12 college coach.

Did you read my post? I said that we need to continue giving Leach more money each year but in a responsible fashion. Do you know what happens if we throw $6 million at him at the end of this year for the next 5 years? In two years, Leach will be getting restless because he’s not getting raises each year. And if someone comes along and offers him $6.5 million? His a$$ is gone anyway if money is what really drives him. So, I’m not saying not to pay the man. I’m saying that there are better ways to spend money than throwing it all at one guy in fear.
 
When they showed the aerial view before kickoff circling the stadium and I saw it was was PACKED (even that corner of the student section) I knew Martin was ready to bring it. Fans got to their seats early.

Both networks really brought it this weekend The actual footage they showed and presented blew me away. Quick game break? Let's cut to a baddass aerial shot of the stadium PACKED, loud, and on an absolutely picturesque Palouse Fall day.
 
Did you read my post? I said that we need to continue giving Leach more money each year but in a responsible fashion. Do you know what happens if we throw $6 million at him at the end of this year for the next 5 years? In two years, Leach will be getting restless because he’s not getting raises each year. And if someone comes along and offers him $6.5 million? His a$$ is gone anyway if money is what really drives him. So, I’m not saying not to pay the man. I’m saying that there are better ways to spend money than throwing it all at one guy in fear.
So tell me if I'm reading you right. The crux of your whole perspective is wrapped in this statement. "… if money is what really drives him". Is that accurate? You're whole view is inaccurate if that statement is untrue?
 
Did you read my post? I said that we need to continue giving Leach more money each year but in a responsible fashion. Do you know what happens if we throw $6 million at him at the end of this year for the next 5 years? In two years, Leach will be getting restless because he’s not getting raises each year. And if someone comes along and offers him $6.5 million? His a$$ is gone anyway if money is what really drives him. So, I’m not saying not to pay the man. I’m saying that there are better ways to spend money than throwing it all at one guy in fear.

It's not fear, it's just being responsible. Leach is the 39th highest paid head coach in the country. Current schools paying more: Virginia, Minnesota, Purdue, Utah, Illinois, Kentucky, Texas Tech, Northwestern, Tennessee, Louisville, Virginia Tech, TCU. Which would of those teams will be favored against WSU? Minus Utah, who Leach has one 4 straight against, none would be favored. Welcome to college football. You pay coaches who win. WSU doesn't need to pay him $6M right, that would put him in the top 8, but WSU could get him to $4.5-4.8 which would put him at top 20 instead of being 39th.
 
It's not fear, it's just being responsible. Leach is the 39th highest paid head coach in the country. Current schools paying more: Virginia, Minnesota, Purdue, Utah, Illinois, Kentucky, Texas Tech, Northwestern, Tennessee, Louisville, Virginia Tech, TCU. Which would of those teams will be favored against WSU? Minus Utah, who Leach has one 4 straight against, none would be favored. Welcome to college football. You pay coaches who win. WSU doesn't need to pay him $6M right, that would put him in the top 8, but WSU could get him to $4.5-4.8 which would put him at top 20 instead of being 39th.

Leach has always shopped around in the offseason but never left. He understands he must show his worth in the open market because athletic departments arent handing out raises willy nilly.

Paying Leach more isnt about anything other than preventing a school like Illinois coming in and throwing $5.5 million at Leach and plucking him away. Thats a $2 million dollar raise. We may never be able to prevent a blue blood program from coming in and throwing 7-8 million on Leach, but you have to be able to close the door on the middle tier programs who have an AD who wants to make a name for himself.
 
I have been a Coug fan since the mid-50's and, without a doubt, Leach has established the strongest, year-to-year, sustained program in that time frame. We have never before had the ability to plug-and-play talent like he is doing nor replace coaches with the continued excellence he is achieving. This is what a strong football program looks like and it is the first time WSU has ever accomplished that. I guess, since it is the first time, it is not that surprising that some fans don't even recognize it for what it is and how truly remarkable it is.
 
I have been a Coug fan since the mid-50's and, without a doubt, Leach has established the strongest, year-to-year, sustained program in that time frame. We have never before had the ability to plug-and-play talent like he is doing nor replace coaches with the continued excellence he is achieving. This is what a strong football program looks like and it is the first time WSU has ever accomplished that. I guess, since it is the first time, it is not that surprising that some fans don't even recognize it for what it is and how truly remarkable it is.
THIS. Even with Price, he'd have a great year, then 2 or 3 years to "rebuild". Sustainability is key and CML has brought that. That is something we've NEVER had.

His worth is all dependent on your perspective. If you think sports is the front porch to any university, then he's worth his weight in gold. If you don't, you're not going to get why he's being paid so much. You'll always battle and vacillate regarding how much. As our number of students grow due to such exposure, will that be worthy of what CML does and worthy of paying him more? If an instate student pays $35K a year, 100 students come to WSU because they saw WSU football on TV… that's 3.5 mill. Just something to consider. Not including out of state.

CML has brought us into the TOP 25 consistently. Now if we can STAY in there, his pay needs to reflect that, IMHO. If we can stay in the TOP 25, he needs to be payed as such.
 
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THIS. Even with Price, he'd have a great year, then 2 or 3 years to "rebuild". Sustainability is key and CML has brought that. That is something we've NEVER had.

His worth is all dependent on your perspective. If you think sports is the front porch to any university, then he's worth his weight in gold. If you don't, you're not going to get why he's being paid so much. You'll always battle and vacillate regarding how much. As our number of students grow due to such exposure, will that be worthy of what CML does and worthy of paying him more? If an instate student pays $35K a year, 100 students come to WSU because they saw WSU football on TV… that's 3.5 mill. Just something to consider. Not including out of state.

CML has brought us into the TOP 25 consistently. Now if we can STAY in there, his pay needs to reflect that, IMHO. If we can stay in the TOP 25, he needs to be payed as such.

I think we are all thrilled with the stability that Leach brings. If I had a critique of Leach, it's that he hasn't proven that he can win a conference championship. He was close in 2008 in a loaded conference with some great teams at the top.....so there's no shame in not winning it all....but when we get into discussions about making sure that we pay him top dollar, it's perfectly reasonable to say that he needs to earn that top dollar. Paying $6 million per year to "not suck" isn't necessarily good fiscal management for WSU. Financial decisions are not made in a vacuum and other people that aren't football fans need to be convinced too.

On your math about Leach bringing in new students, in-state tuition at WSU is currently $10,268 with another $1,313 in mandatory fees. If the university gets $1,000 in "profit" left over after expenses for students, we'd need 3500 new students to get $3.5 million per year in meaningful money. That isn't a realistic assumption to make.
 
I think we are all thrilled with the stability that Leach brings. If I had a critique of Leach, it's that he hasn't proven that he can win a conference championship. He was close in 2008 in a loaded conference with some great teams at the top.....so there's no shame in not winning it all....but when we get into discussions about making sure that we pay him top dollar, it's perfectly reasonable to say that he needs to earn that top dollar. Paying $6 million per year to "not suck" isn't necessarily good fiscal management for WSU. Financial decisions are not made in a vacuum and other people that aren't football fans need to be convinced too.

On your math about Leach bringing in new students, in-state tuition at WSU is currently $10,268 with another $1,313 in mandatory fees. If the university gets $1,000 in "profit" left over after expenses for students, we'd need 3500 new students to get $3.5 million per year in meaningful money. That isn't a realistic assumption to make.
You aren't including many other things. Yes, tuition is around 10K. But books, food, room and board. That turns to roughly 30-35K a year. All of that the school is either the middle man (they'll get their cut) or the provider like room and board. So yes, 100 students coming into WSU would bring in 3.5 mil. Not all in tuition but in other costs. It's not just a tuition thing.
 
You aren't including many other things. Yes, tuition is around 10K. But books, food, room and board. That turns to roughly 30-35K a year. All of that the school is either the middle man (they'll get their cut) or the provider like room and board. So yes, 100 students coming into WSU would bring in 3.5 mil. Not all in tuition but in other costs. It's not just a tuition thing.

$3.5 million in revenue doesn't equate to $3.5 million in profit. Housing for new students costs money. Classrooms for new students cost money. Professors for new students cost money. Food for new students cost money. Even if they get 10% profit from the new students (and we always hear about inefficient public agencies are), that's only $350,000 per year.......not $3.5 million. All sorts of companies go out of business while they are making money but not profit.

As I said before, Leach deserves the money he's getting and if he keeps doing it, he deserves more every year. It's just rampant stupidity to throw an extra $2.5 million at him right now because you are afraid he's going to leave. Again, it's such bullsh!t for our fans to take a dump on every good win by saying that we need to pay Leach more money. Enjoy the goddamned win and talk about Stanford.

The sad thing about the current stupidity of coaching salaries is that the rising cost of salaries, combined with a facilities arms race and declining TV revenue that's projected over the next 10 years means that dozens of athletic departments are going to be in dire financial straits in the near future. Paying Leach another $2.5 million is a way to guarantee that WSU will be one of those departments.
 
Winning cures everything. Winning increases attendance and donations. The IPF will be built a lot faster winning then being cheap and paying a non proven head coach. What makes the university and the athletic department more money? Paying a coach $3.5 million and he goes 4-8, 3-9 over 4 years and we become Oregon State and Kansas of football or paying somebody $6 million, and get Gameday, have a 11 game home winning streak, beat Oregon 4 years in a row, beat Stanford, beat SC, have a record of 32-13 in 4 years?

I can't believe you are so riled up by this. Find a new sport if you can't comprehend paying market value for a top 12 college coach.

FWIW.......if you think I'm riled up.......I consider it being objective and realistic. What's fascinating is that y'all say that it's stupid not to pay Leach the money, but what if we give him a raise of $1-$2.5 million per year and that means that we can't get the IPF started for five years and that ends up being the reason stated by Leach at the impetus behind him going somewhere else? We have a limited pile of cash to work with and we need to be smart about it.

Now, I will say that in five weeks, if WSU beats UW to go 11-1 and qualify for the Pac-12 championship game, Chun needs to sit down with Leach and Schulz and talk about money. If we win that Pac-12 championship game, we need to find a way to get him to $5 million much sooner than later. Beating Oregon in mid-October? It's kind of Leach's job to do that.
 
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You aren't including many other things. Yes, tuition is around 10K. But books, food, room and board. That turns to roughly 30-35K a year. All of that the school is either the middle man (they'll get their cut) or the provider like room and board. So yes, 100 students coming into WSU would bring in 3.5 mil. Not all in tuition but in other costs. It's not just a tuition thing.

What you are talking about is "cost of attendance" (link below). $27,480 for 18-19 for in-state students. So no, not 3.5 million for 100 students. And while there is some "profit" in that $27,480, it is a fractional amount. Closer to Flat's $1,000 than to your 100%. And once a kid is past the freshman live on requirement (BS by the way) over 1/2 of that cost of attendance doesn't go to WSU at all. Room and board, misc and transportation.

So no, what CML gets paid, and what Athletics and Football cost and how they are paid for have a pretty small relationship to incremental student numbers and resulting revenue. Gross, net or whatever.

https://financialaid.wsu.edu/tuition-expenses/

Edit: the real dollar impact is donations from grownups.
 
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$3.5 million in revenue doesn't equate to $3.5 million in profit. Housing for new students costs money. Classrooms for new students cost money. Professors for new students cost money. Food for new students cost money. Even if they get 10% profit from the new students (and we always hear about inefficient public agencies are), that's only $350,000 per year.......not $3.5 million. All sorts of companies go out of business while they are making money but not profit.

As I said before, Leach deserves the money he's getting and if he keeps doing it, he deserves more every year. It's just rampant stupidity to throw an extra $2.5 million at him right now because you are afraid he's going to leave. Again, it's such bullsh!t for our fans to take a dump on every good win by saying that we need to pay Leach more money. Enjoy the goddamned win and talk about Stanford.

The sad thing about the current stupidity of coaching salaries is that the rising cost of salaries, combined with a facilities arms race and declining TV revenue that's projected over the next 10 years means that dozens of athletic departments are going to be in dire financial straits in the near future. Paying Leach another $2.5 million is a way to guarantee that WSU will be one of those departments.
who said it was all profit? But it's still 3.5 mill that wasn't being brought in before. Those are still significant numbers, flat. I'm so uncertain as to your assumptions and your angle. No one knows the overhead costs for any given school. All we can do is say, "This is being brought in, this isn't." CML is putting WSU's front porch on full display. To think he could bring in 100 students that otherwise wouldn't have is not a bad/hard assumption. And that money flow is significant, Flat. That's all I'm saying. Sheesh. Get your emotions gathered, please. No need to start cussing over something you have zero control over. And honestly Flat, it's very obvious you are triggered by this topic. You might want to step back. You're emotionally invested in this, obviously.
 
who said it was all profit? But it's still 3.5 mill that wasn't being brought in before. Those are still significant numbers, flat. I'm so uncertain as to your assumptions and your angle. No one knows the overhead costs for any given school. All we can do is say, "This is being brought in, this isn't." CML is putting WSU's front porch on full display. To think he could bring in 100 students that otherwise wouldn't have is not a bad/hard assumption. And that money flow is significant, Flat. That's all I'm saying. Sheesh. Get your emotions gathered, please. No need to start cussing over something you have zero control over. And honestly Flat, it's very obvious you are triggered by this topic. You might want to step back. You're emotionally invested in this, obviously.

Emotions? I'm just saying that it is stupid to try and correlate $3.5 million in revenue for the university into any meaningful difference in our ability to pay Leach $6 million. The fact that you don't understand economics and how businesses (a university is a business) run is on you. Your argument is essentially this:

If a used car dealer currently sells $3.5 million dollars in cars every year and he sells $7 million dollars in cars after hiring a new salesman, the owner should give that guy a $2.5 million raise because of the additional revenue generated. It totally ignores all of the other costs that are incurred while running his business, the fact that they have to have a bigger parking lot to handle the cars, that it costs money to buy the cars that the guy is selling and everything else that goes into it.

It's not emotion.........it's logic......and you are failing to use it when you claim that 100 extra students gives the university an extra $3.5 million to spend on other things.
 
Emotions? I'm just saying that it is stupid to try and correlate $3.5 million in revenue for the university into any meaningful difference in our ability to pay Leach $6 million. The fact that you don't understand economics and how businesses (a university is a business) run is on you. Your argument is essentially this:

If a used car dealer currently sells $3.5 million dollars in cars every year and he sells $7 million dollars in cars after hiring a new salesman, the owner should give that guy a $2.5 million raise because of the additional revenue generated. It totally ignores all of the other costs that are incurred while running his business, the fact that they have to have a bigger parking lot to handle the cars, that it costs money to buy the cars that the guy is selling and everything else that goes into it.

It's not emotion.........it's logic......and you are failing to use it when you claim that 100 extra students gives the university an extra $3.5 million to spend on other things.
Read. My. Posts. I haven't said anything like that. EVER. I said that the fact he is bringing in new students is a factor. That is all. I said if he is consistently placing us and leaving us in the TOP 25, he should be paid such. That is all. I've never stated he needs to be paid 6 mill. Your emotion is clouding your reading comprehension and allowing yourself to blur my posts with others.

Athletics and school budgets are separate. I get the difference between gross and net. I get the incurring costs, post state. I own my own business. I am on several boards. You sir, are making so many assumptions, it's incredible. Just read MY posts, please. Appreciate it.
 
THIS. Even with Price, he'd have a great year, then 2 or 3 years to "rebuild". Sustainability is key and CML has brought that. That is something we've NEVER had.

His worth is all dependent on your perspective. If you think sports is the front porch to any university, then he's worth his weight in gold. If you don't, you're not going to get why he's being paid so much. You'll always battle and vacillate regarding how much. As our number of students grow due to such exposure, will that be worthy of what CML does and worthy of paying him more? If an instate student pays $35K a year, 100 students come to WSU because they saw WSU football on TV… that's 3.5 mill. Just something to consider. Not including out of state.
You aren't including many other things. Yes, tuition is around 10K. But books, food, room and board. That turns to roughly 30-35K a year. All of that the school is either the middle man (they'll get their cut) or the provider like room and board. So yes, 100 students coming into WSU would bring in 3.5 mil. Not all in tuition but in other costs. It's not just a tuition thing.
Read. My. Posts. I haven't said anything like that. EVER. I said that the fact he is bringing in new students is a factor. .

Well actually 95 you kind of did say something like that. Twice - at least. But no matter.

And Flat, calm down. It's only Monday. :eek:
 
You pay a coach for what he can deliver and Leach has delivered.

He should be paid as a Top 3 coach in the conference / too 25 coach. That’s what he’s earned that’s what he should be paid (and we are close to that currently)

He’s currently #4 in the conference in pay and #39 Nationally.

To move him to #3 in the conference and top 25 he needs to be paid 4.25 million. He currently is paid 3.5 million. So we are paying him about 750k less than he’s worth.

That’s the most fair and honest assessment.

He’s doing great for us I would like to keep it rolling and the reality is you have to pay money to compete in college football these days. That’s just how it is.

We are making more money than ever before in WSU athletics currently and with each passing year paying the Martin renovations and football ops building we are heading towards the black.

We spent about 150 million on construction. That is the only reason we are financially hurting. The coaches salaries are a drop in the bucket compared to that. And we are paying it off and we will be a very profitable athletics program in the near future. These kinds of renovations are done once every 20 years (hopefully more frequent but for is every 20 is good).

We are on our way to building a strong and long standing program. We already have Coug players like Bartalone entering coaching and assistants from WSU entering places like Ohio State etc

We will have great people to chose from in the future who understand how to win in Pullman and how to be a success.

The most important thing is to keep building.
 
Well actually 95 you kind of did say something like that. Twice - at least. But no matter.

And Flat, calm down. It's only Monday. :eek:
"It would bring in 3.5 mill". I even said, they'd only get a cut. OR I said with lodging, the school was the provider. What are you referencing? Did I say anywhere that the 3.5 was the schools cut? No. I said that's what would be brought in. I didn't speak one iota of distribution after the fact. I actually said, in my first post, the 3.5 mill was something to "consider". That was all. You guys are hearing what you want to hear.
 
Yesterday was a celebration about all the things we love about being a Coug. Great post!
I waited 24 hours to reactivate this account and compose this post because I didn't want what follows to be overly-influenced by the euphoric afterglow of what transpired yesterday in Pullman. And despite my self-imposed waiting period, I'm afraid my thoughts are likely to still be compromised. Regardless, here goes.

While we have all been witness to bigger games, and greater singular moments in Cougar sports history, what is undebatable is that there has never been a 24-hour period with the potential to reshape the future of WSU athletics, and football, specifically. At the risk of being labelled quixotic, I dare propose that we might someday look back on Saturday as the day that everything changed for WSU.

I say this because two thoughts entered my mind as yesterday came to a close.

First, Wazzu went national. I did something I've never really done before on Saturday, and monitored social media trends during the Gameday broadcast, as well as during the game, specifically looking for mentions of Pullman. Quite frankly, I was blown away by what I read. The consensus impression from neutral observers was overwhelmingly positive. College football fans all around the country saw a large, enthusiastic, passionate fan base; fans that loved their school, loved Pullman and knew how to have a good time. They saw spirit and pride on an epic scale, and remarked that Saturday morning in Pullman represented everything that is good about college football. They were witness to the magic of a true college town. They watched WSU absolutely truck the 12th-ranked team for 30 minutes (a program that is easy to dislike, at that), and likely turned the game off at half-time. They saw an exciting style of football, with an explosive offense that moved up-and-down the field at will and an aggressive, blitzing defense. They heard a loud, amped-up crowd bordering on delirium; a stadium about to blow. And they woke up to images of an ecstatic, fist-pumping, long-haired quarterback, riding the shoulders of those same fans into the Pullman night. And they loved every minute of it.

From start-to-finish, the day could not have gone better for the Wazzu brand, and don't be surprised to find sudden interest in places we never thought possible. And here's the great thing about new fans: They don't know that not every day is like yesterday. They don't know about couging-it. They don't know about students leaving early or the typically empty alumni side, or the weak crowd on 2003 Senior Night. They don't know about the Wulff years or the long bowl droughts. They don't know about 69-0 against USC, or the nearly-annual epic letdowns against UW. They know about Saturday morning and Saturday night. And they know that it was glorious.

And second, a sleeping stadium reawakened, and (hopefully) our fans remembered how FUN Martin stadium can be. For the first time in a long time the atmosphere was truly electric. It was shades of the 2002 wins over USC and Oregon, when the game itself was a party, Martin was rocking, and it was a thing of beauty.

When it's all said and done, the legacy of October 20th could be the national coming-out party we never dreamed possible. It could be our "Uncle Phil opening his wallet" moment. It could be the day that forever altered the trajectory and perception of WSU.

But here's the conviction. Yesterday will only have a legacy if we back it up. Avoid a fatal face-plant next week. Write that check to CAF. Renew those season tickets.

The legacy of yesterday could be the dawning of a new era. Or it could be nothing at all. I'm still elation-drunk enough to believe that anything is possible. Thanks for indulging me.
Great take and post! I was going to reply early AM before it ended up taking a tangent. This post actually brought me back to the significance of the entire day. It is a possible turning point. From start to finish it was a celebration of so much of what we love about being a Coug!

Anyway, you definitely said it best so I'll leave it there. Appreciate the thoughtful post!
 
I was a Coug before Leach and I will be a Coug after. Gonna enjoy this wild ride and hope it lasts a long, long time. He's a perfect fit, and the best coach we've ever had, but others can also be successful here too. The bar has been raised and it won't be lowered.

If he leaves it is about being in a more competitive conference, better recruiting and competitive salaries for his assistants. If he leaves i will wish him well, but we can't be dependent solely on one man and be the program we want to be.
 
"It would bring in 3.5 mill". I even said, they'd only get a cut. OR I said with lodging, the school was the provider. What are you referencing? Did I say anywhere that the 3.5 was the schools cut? No. I said that's what would be brought in. I didn't speak one iota of distribution after the fact. I actually said, in my first post, the 3.5 mill was something to "consider". That was all. You guys are hearing what you want to hear.

We just had one of the best days in our History...and you are here on the Monday after getting all emotional about economics. Nice.
 
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I was a Coug before Leach and I will be a Coug after. Gonna enjoy this wild ride and hope it lasts a long, long time. He's a perfect fit, and the best coach we've ever had, but others can also be successful here too. The bar has been raised and it won't be lowered.

If he leaves it is about being in a more competitive conference, better recruiting and competitive salaries for his assistants. If he leaves i will wish him well, but we can't be dependent solely on one man and be the program we want to be.

The truth is we are just like others . Our program like other is built on sand. It is about the head man. If Leach leaves so does the system and his vision . Happened when Chip left, happened when Price left, it happened when Carroll left Usc.

There is another problem- you don’t think the Pac 12 is going to get pissed about the revenue they share with WSU and a tine is going to come when they say ... hey we keep you propped up and your coach is one of the highest paid coaches in the Pac 12. In terms of revenue generated by the Cougs Leach should be the 12th highest paid coach in the conference . There will come a time when they get tired of subsidizing a coach that beats them every year .
 
The truth is we are just like others . Our program like other is built on sand. It is about the head man. If Leach leaves so does the system and his vision . Happened when Chip left, happened when Price left, it happened when Carroll left Usc.

There is another problem- you don’t think the Pac 12 is going to get pissed about the revenue they share with WSU and a tine is going to come when they say ... hey we keep you propped up and your coach is one of the highest paid coaches in the Pac 12. In terms of revenue generated by the Cougs Leach should be the 12th highest paid coach in the conference . There will come a time when they get tired of subsidizing a coach that beats them every year .

Spoken like an idiot.

1. It is not built on sand because we have an entire coaching tree to select from to be successful.

Chip Kelly had 1 main assistant who knew what to do and that was Scott Frost. Oregon couldn’t get him.
Doba wasn’t an offensive coach and he had no real idea how to recruit.
When Caroll left USC he took Ken Norton and most of his disciples with him. All that was left was Sark and Kiffin. They tried desperately to rekindle the magic but they just had a few pieces. That is not the case for us.

Lincoln Riley, Dana Holgersen, Art Briles, Seth Litrell, Sonny Dykes/Tony Franklin, Kliff Kingsbury, Eric Morris

All are former Leach assistants and head coaches. Their trees we can pull from as well for a search. When Moos hired Leach we didn’t just got Leach we got access to his long coaching tree network and there are a lot of branches. a lot.

And to show you just how easy it can be to keep the offense similar. Kendall Briles Art Briles son/protege is the OC of Houston. His connection to WSU? Chun was his AD when he was the OC at FAU under Kiffin.

And just like that the Air Raid and the years of training stays in place.

2. The Pac 12 is a conference. Tough sh*t if we are good. They’ve already seen what happens when they treat WSU unfairly...Larry Scott is stuttering trying to explain trying to save face. The days of cheating us without retribution are over. Either be fair or be talking to the press trying to explain yourself for weeks after incident.

The listen 0-10-1 Jim Walden are over. We will be fine.
 
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