The Moscow killings part II

[CougEd]

I probably have more questions than even guesses to the answers.

And I am sure in good time those answers will come out .

Was the DNA first then the car ? My guess is not because if they had DNA and they probably could do a search and know he is on campus .

If the car came first, did his roommates or neighbors call in and said there is a white Elantra in our parking lot?

It sounds like he was on campus until close to finals which was the 16th… the car seems to have been in Pullman at least five days before break . Did the police and fbi have him as a suspect at that point and simply further investigation before they spoke to him?

I am curious how soon he was in their sights and of they normally hold off for dna before questioning him if that was his car in Moscow that night ?

In terms of the death penalty … I could be wrong on the following thought process, but his parents don’t appear to have enough money to buy him an attorney .

I would suspect any attorney if they had this mounting evidence will see if they can get a plea deal for reasons of motives . I would think the prosecutors would seek at least an opinion or thoughts from the families .

The crime seems way too violent not to be personal and simply trying to feel what it feels like to kill someone .

Knowing all appeals it would take what 20 years to put him nite nite ? Is there incentive to plea from the states side to forgo expenses and at same time the subject would get incentive to plea with all the evidence .

Maybe I need to watch more dateline with my wife but her shows tend to focus on how to get rid of a husband .

I am sure I will get these answer soon enough.

 

[79COUG]

I probably have more questions than even guesses to the answers.

And I am sure in good time those answers will come out .

Was the DNA first then the car ? My guess is not because if they had DNA and they probably could do a search and know he is on campus .

If the car came first, did his roommates or neighbors call in and said there is a white Elantra in our parking lot?

It sounds like he was on campus until close to finals which was the 16th… the car seems to have been in Pullman at least five days before break . Did the police and fbi have him as a suspect at that point and simply further investigation before they spoke to him?

I am curious how soon he was in their sights and of they normally hold off for dna before questioning him if that was his car in Moscow that night ?

In terms of the death penalty … I could be wrong on the following thought process, but his parents don’t appear to have enough money to buy him an attorney .

I would suspect any attorney if they had this mounting evidence will see if they can get a plea deal for reasons of motives . I would think the prosecutors would seek at least an opinion or thoughts from the families .

The crime seems way too violent not to be personal and simply trying to feel what it feels like to kill someone .

Knowing all appeals it would take what 20 years to put him nite nite ? Is there incentive to plea from the states side to forgo expenses and at same time the subject would get incentive to plea with all the evidence .

Maybe I need to watch more dateline with my wife but her shows tend to focus on how to get rid of a husband .

I am sure I will get these answer soon enough.

I have zero answers to your questions however I do know that detectives are re-examining two murder cases in Oregon and Pennsylvania that line up with the questionnaire he sent out while at Drake. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

I probably have more questions than even guesses to the answers.

And I am sure in good time those answers will come out .

Was the DNA first then the car ? My guess is not because if they had DNA and they probably could do a search and know he is on campus .

If the car came first, did his roommates or neighbors call in and said there is a white Elantra in our parking lot?

It sounds like he was on campus until close to finals which was the 16th… the car seems to have been in Pullman at least five days before break . Did the police and fbi have him as a suspect at that point and simply further investigation before they spoke to him?

I am curious how soon he was in their sights and of they normally hold off for dna before questioning him if that was his car in Moscow that night ?

In terms of the death penalty … I could be wrong on the following thought process, but his parents don’t appear to have enough money to buy him an attorney .

I would suspect any attorney if they had this mounting evidence will see if they can get a plea deal for reasons of motives . I would think the prosecutors would seek at least an opinion or thoughts from the families .

The crime seems way too violent not to be personal and simply trying to feel what it feels like to kill someone .

Knowing all appeals it would take what 20 years to put him nite nite ? Is there incentive to plea from the states side to forgo expenses and at same time the subject would get incentive to plea with all the evidence .

Maybe I need to watch more dateline with my wife but her shows tend to focus on how to get rid of a husband .

I am sure I will get these answer soon enough.

The DNA thing puzzles me. How did they get his DNA to compare to whatever they found at the scene? They must have had some reason to suspect him, and got it from somewhere.

 

[spongeandshoot]

I probably have more questions than even guesses to the answers.

And I am sure in good time those answers will come out .

Was the DNA first then the car ? My guess is not because if they had DNA and they probably could do a search and know he is on campus .

If the car came first, did his roommates or neighbors call in and said there is a white Elantra in our parking lot?

It sounds like he was on campus until close to finals which was the 16th… the car seems to have been in Pullman at least five days before break . Did the police and fbi have him as a suspect at that point and simply further investigation before they spoke to him?

I am curious how soon he was in their sights and of they normally hold off for dna before questioning him if that was his car in Moscow that night ?

In terms of the death penalty … I could be wrong on the following thought process, but his parents don’t appear to have enough money to buy him an attorney .

I would suspect any attorney if they had this mounting evidence will see if they can get a plea deal for reasons of motives . I would think the prosecutors would seek at least an opinion or thoughts from the families .

The crime seems way too violent not to be personal and simply trying to feel what it feels like to kill someone .

Knowing all appeals it would take what 20 years to put him nite nite ? Is there incentive to plea from the states side to forgo expenses and at same time the subject would get incentive to plea with all the evidence .

Maybe I need to watch more dateline with my wife but her shows tend to focus on how to get rid of a husband .

I am sure I will get these answer soon enough.

As for motive, I read an article where he was bullied a lot by women in high school and before.

I think he has a lot of anger and rage at women just like Ted Bundy had and probably combined with wondering what it was like to kill someone.

I did see a theory where they suspected that the killer would be an incel with rage against women and I think this is spot on.

 

[COUGinNCW]

The DNA thing puzzles me. How did they get his DNA to compare to whatever they found at the scene? They must have had some reason to suspect him, and got it from somewhere.

The way I understand it, they matched the DNA from the crime scene to DNA in the National data base which comes from Ancestry.Com etc. Someone in his family was probably registered so that’s what got them on the DNA trail and then probably obtained a DNA sample from the perp (covertly?) later.

 

[chugspig]

I would guess they suspected him in some fashion around the time they released the Elantra info, where they asked anyone with one to check in just to contact police etc. With the manpower they had on the case I bet they knew everything about every Elantra in the greater region, wether they be through university parking passes, apartment passes, registration to the state etc. Once they released that info and watched one leave from WA across the country, pretty obvious.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

I probably have more questions than even guesses to the answers.

And I am sure in good time those answers will come out .

Was the DNA first then the car ? My guess is not because if they had DNA and they probably could do a search and know he is on campus .

If the car came first, did his roommates or neighbors call in and said there is a white Elantra in our parking lot?

It sounds like he was on campus until close to finals which was the 16th… the car seems to have been in Pullman at least five days before break . Did the police and fbi have him as a suspect at that point and simply further investigation before they spoke to him?

I am curious how soon he was in their sights and of they normally hold off for dna before questioning him if that was his car in Moscow that night ?

In terms of the death penalty … I could be wrong on the following thought process, but his parents don’t appear to have enough money to buy him an attorney .

I would suspect any attorney if they had this mounting evidence will see if they can get a plea deal for reasons of motives . I would think the prosecutors would seek at least an opinion or thoughts from the families .

The crime seems way too violent not to be personal and simply trying to feel what it feels like to kill someone .

Knowing all appeals it would take what 20 years to put him nite nite ? Is there incentive to plea from the states side to forgo expenses and at same time the subject would get incentive to plea with all the evidence .

Maybe I need to watch more dateline with my wife but her shows tend to focus on how to get rid of a husband .

I am sure I will get these answer soon enough.

Ed, you always have questions. Especially questions in response to questions directed to you...so you can avoid answering questions.

It's a feature, not a bug.

 

[CougEd]

Ed, you always have questions. Especially questions in response to questions directed to you...so you can avoid answering questions.

It's a feature, not a bug.

Dear Customer Bothered in Bozeman .. Actually only your questions but duly noted.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Dear Customer Bothered in Bozeman .. Actually only your questions but duly noted.

Not just mine. Not even close Ed.

I don't live in Bozeman and never in Montana.

 

[CougEd]

Not just mine. Not even close Ed.

I don't live in Bozeman and never in Montana.

It’s a new year . You are right . I am a question asker but not an answerer. Guilty.

Any other issues you have that you would like to raise in a post about a horrible killing in Moscow ?

Doesn’t everyone live in Montana since Yellowstone ? Btw that is a rhetorical question so doesnt count on my allowed questions without answering a question.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

It’s a new year . You are right . I am a question asker but not an answerer. Guilty.

Any other issues you have that you would like to raise in a post about a horrible killing in Moscow ?

Doesn’t everyone live in Montana since Yellowstone ? Btw that is a rhetorical question so doesnt count on my allowed questions without answering a question.

It counts.

 

[wsudefense]

The way I understand it, they matched the DNA from the crime scene to DNA in the National data base which comes from Ancestry.Com etc. Someone in his family was probably registered so that’s what got them on the DNA trail and then probably obtained a DNA sample from the perp (covertly?) later.

Bingo I believe I read it somewhere where they mention his sister but not sure

 

[kougkurt]

I got the ancestory thing as a Christmas gift and spit in the tube and promptly returned it Now I’m worried my grandkids can never grow up to be successful criminals.

 

[Coug90]

I got the ancestory thing as a Christmas gift and spit in the tube and promptly returned it Now I’m worried my grandkids can never grow up to be successful crimina

Brings up an interesting point considering his dad flew back to drive to PA w him (which I don’t think is out of the ordinary at all BTW). But if something was off and you suspected your own child, would you turn them in?

 

[95coug]

Reports I’ve read say they narrowed in on him only in the later half of December, basically just in time for him to leave town. And supposedly, his dad flying out to ride back East with him was planned early in the semester (which will easily be verified by when the flight was paid for).

There are multiple elements to the DNA testing. The collection and testing will have taken some time, and if his DNA was mixed with the victims’, that likely takes longer to separate. The results would go back to the agency, and they’ll check it against their databases first. If there’s no match, then they’d submit to GEDMatch or FamilyTreeDNA. Ancestry and 23andMe don’t share data with law enforcement (at least, not willingly). There will absolutely be matches in those databases, but will be mostly cousins of varying distance. Then that information goes to a genetic genealogist who will work on building a family tree backward - using the distant cousins to come back to an individual. Depending on the quantity/quality of matches, that could take some time. That process could very well come up with an individual name - which they can then look at, see that he lives in Pullman and drives an Elantra. They can look for connections to the victims, phone records, etc. But they also need a confirming sample - so you track him across the country and wait until he throws away something that you can get another DNA sample from. That gets run as high priority, and when it matches the initial sample…you make the arrest. You impound the car, search the residence, and you start working on building the case against him.

Bottom line, it was the DNA that got him. The car is just reinforcement. Cases like this used to require a trail of clues from scene to suspect. DNA lets cops ID the suspect and then build the trail.

Without DNA this guy is still drinking eggnog with mom & dad.

EDIT: There’s a degree of controversy around this. Some think that there’s a weakness in the part where the family tree is built, and There can be. That research could point to the wrong person, depending on how good birth and marriage records are, and the researcher’s attention to detail. That’s why you get the confirming DNA sample, because if you get a match from that to the crime scene….the probability of error is very close to zero.

EDIT 2: Also read today that he actually drives a 2015 Elantra. They were looking for a 2011-2013, so his probably wasn’t even in the 20-some thousand they were weeding through. I have no idea how different the 2015s were, but I’d be willing to bet he drove it very little after November 12.

 

[wsudefense]

Idaho murder suspect’s former student says behavior changed after slayings: ‘He seemed preoccupied'

Bryan Kohberger, a PhD student in Washington State University’s criminal justice program, was arrested for allegedly murdering four University of Idaho students.

www.yahoo.com

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Reports I’ve read say they narrowed in on him only in the later half of December, basically just in time for him to leave town. And supposedly, his dad flying out to ride back East with him was planned early in the semester (which will easily be verified by when the flight was paid for).

There are multiple elements to the DNA testing. The collection and testing will have taken some time, and if his DNA was mixed with the victims’, that likely takes longer to separate. The results would go back to the agency, and they’ll check it against their databases first. If there’s no match, then they’d submit to GEDMatch or FamilyTreeDNA. Ancestry and 23andMe don’t share data with law enforcement (at least, not willingly). There will absolutely be matches in those databases, but will be mostly cousins of varying distance. Then that information goes to a genetic genealogist who will work on building a family tree backward - using the distant cousins to come back to an individual. Depending on the quantity/quality of matches, that could take some time. That process could very well come up with an individual name - which they can then look at, see that he lives in Pullman and drives an Elantra. They can look for connections to the victims, phone records, etc. But they also need a confirming sample - so you track him across the country and wait until he throws away something that you can get another DNA sample from. That gets run as high priority, and when it matches the initial sample…you make the arrest. You impound the car, search the residence, and you start working on building the case against him.

Bottom line, it was the DNA that got him. The car is just reinforcement. Cases like this used to require a trail of clues from scene to suspect. DNA lets cops ID the suspect and then build the trail.

Without DNA this guy is still drinking eggnog with mom & dad.

EDIT: There’s a degree of controversy around this. Some think that there’s a weakness in the part where the family tree is built, and There can be. That research could point to the wrong person, depending on how good birth and marriage records are, and the researcher’s attention to detail. That’s why you get the confirming DNA sample, because if you get a match from that to the crime scene….the probability of error is very close to zero.

EDIT 2: Also read today that he actually drives a 2015 Elantra. They were looking for a 2011-2013, so his probably wasn’t even in the 20-some thousand they were weeding through. I have no idea how different the 2015s were, but I’d be willing to bet he drove it very little after November 12.

DNA from victims will no doubt be found in his car as well.

 

[COUGinNCW]

DNA from victims will no doubt be found in his car as well.

I don’t know how many places do car detailing in Pullman/Moscow but assume they’ve all been questioned about any Elantras they’ve scrubbed since Nov 13.

 

[CougPatrol]

I read that he was an “outstanding” student. I also just read that he is waiving his extradition hearing to speed up his return to Idaho so he can put these charges behind him.

Wondering if there is more to the story here. Could he have been intentionally baiting himself to mess with the investigation? He used a bladed weapon which is more difficult to trace. He’s been wearing gloves out in public according to police. Not sure why, but I suspect one of his sub motives was to thoroughly plan out the coverup. Allow authorities to obtain evidence, but not enough to convict him.

I suspect he could be a generational sociopath.

 

[95coug]

Idaho murder suspect’s former student says behavior changed after slayings: ‘He seemed preoccupied'

Bryan Kohberger, a PhD student in Washington State University’s criminal justice program, was arrested for allegedly murdering four University of Idaho students.

www.yahoo.com

I've seen reports of his behavior that go both ways. He got more chatty, or he got more sullen. He was cheerful, or he stopped showing up. The only consistent report is that he got more lax in grading...but apparently students also complained about how tough he was and he was told to go a little easier. Bottom line, it's hard to figure out what the truth is here. Which of the interviewees actually has information, and which ones just want to be on camera?

 

[95coug]

I read that was an “outstanding” student. I also just read that he is waiving his extradition hearing to speed up his return to Idaho so he put these charges behind him.

Wondering if there is more to the story here. Could he have been intentionally baiting himself to mess with the investigation? He used a bladed weapon which is more difficult to trace. He’s been wearing gloves out in public according to police. Not sure why, but I suspect one of his sub motives was to thoroughly plan out the coverup. Allow authorities to obtain evidence, but not enough to convict him.

I suspect he could be a generational sociopath.

The DNA will be the telling thing here. They apparently found his at the scene, but where? If it was in the living room, all it means is that he was in the house...and based on the videos of the noise complaint visits by MPD, there were a lot of people in the house. If it was in one victim's bedroom, the easy defense is 'yeah, we hooked up.' If it's in multiple victims' rooms, if it's mixed with their blood, or if he left his own blood trail, there's not really a viable explanation for that. Same if their blood is in his car and/or apartment.

The DNA will trump his efforts. Lack of fingerprints, even lack of a murder weapon won't matter if they can show traces of him mixed with traces of them. Sure, it would be nice to have the weapon too...but it's not really necessary.

 

[CougEd]

The DNA will be the telling thing here. They apparently found his at the scene, but where? If it was in the living room, all it means is that he was in the house...and based on the videos of the noise complaint visits by MPD, there were a lot of people in the house. If it was in one victim's bedroom, the easy defense is 'yeah, we hooked up.' If it's in multiple victims' rooms, if it's mixed with their blood, or if he left his own blood trail, there's not really a viable explanation for that. Same if their blood is in his car and/or apartment.

The DNA will trump his efforts. Lack of fingerprints, even lack of a murder weapon won't matter if they can show traces of him mixed with traces of them. Sure, it would be nice to have the weapon too...but it's not really necessary.

Here is a question...if the murders weren't targeted (I think they were) why not kill in Washington.

Is he like Ted Bundy where he only would kill in states that had the death penalty? Did he choose Idaho cause they do have the death penalty?

 

[CougPatrol]

Heading to the courthouse.

Bryan Kohberger

 

[CougEd]

Heading to the courthouse.

Bryan Kohberger

Brian or Brianne ? He isn't going to like jail or prison if he is convicted.

There was an article he always felt rejected by women. He solved that problem...he wont be rejected in jail or prison. Passed around yes, rejected no.

 

[95coug]

Heading to the courthouse.

Bryan Kohberger

Waived extradition, as expected. Judge ordered he has to be turned over to Latah county within 10 days. My guess is someone from Latah is already trying to get travel arranged to have him in Moscow for breakfast. There will be some degree of "official" information available once he's in state and served. It probably won't be much, but should at least confirm the path MPD took to arrive at his door.

 

[CougPatrol]

Brian or Brianne ? He isn't going to like jail or prison if he is convicted.

There was an article he always felt rejected by women. He solved that problem...he wont be rejected in jail or prison. Passed around yes, rejected no.

I have a feeling he'll dish out his share of abuse as well. There are already reports of him causing issues in his holding cell. There's clearly something seriously wrong with this guy.

 

[kougkurt]

Video of him and his dad getting pulled over on the drive cross country

 

[95coug]

I have a feeling he'll dish out his share of abuse as well. There are already reports of him causing issues in his holding cell. There's clearly something seriously wrong with this guy.

That appears to be another example of media sources creating stories when they can't find information. During the extradition hearing, "The Monroe County Correctional Facility warden informed officials that Kohberger has been a “model prisoner” who has not caused any problems during his time in detention."

 

[95coug]

Video of him and his dad getting pulled over on the drive cross country

View embedded media

Can't hear the discussion very well, but doesn't seem unusual. It does give a good view of 2 sides of the car, and I don't see anything distinctive - no damage or anything noteworthy. It does put him in Indiana during the afternoon of the 15th.

I think I'd read that he got to his parents' house on the 17th, so that doesn't imply they were traveling in any sort of hurry at that point. It's only 5-6 hours from Indianapolis to Pittsburg.

 

[ttowncoug]

Here is a question...if the murders weren't targeted (I think they were) why not kill in Washington.

Is he like Ted Bundy where he only would kill in states that had the death penalty? Did he choose Idaho cause they do have the death penalty?

To the question of why do this in Idaho, I suspect, it has/had to do with being in Pullman at WSU and some logic of not doing this close to "home." This behavior is very impulsive and filling some sort of messed up fantasy he has in his head. My theory would be its far enough distance, so he doesn't have to see effects of his messed up mind firsthand. I also suspect he might have been doing to stalking over there and somehow felt like this house, or victim, could be a target.

 

[CougEd]

Can't hear the discussion very well, but doesn't seem unusual. It does give a good view of 2 sides of the car, and I don't see anything distinctive - no damage or anything noteworthy. It does put him in Indiana during the afternoon of the 15th.

I think I'd read that he got to his parents' house on the 17th, so that doesn't imply they were traveling in any sort of hurry at that point. It's only 5-6 hours from Indianapolis to Pittsburg.

A couple things … first they reference to getting pulled over by a police officer in a suv . The officer said “we don’t have police in suv”. Was that the fbi keeping tabs on him who pulled him over the first time ?

Second if he is Indiana on the 15th and driving with his dad and he probably left Pullman on 10th or 11th … which means the car they were looking for probably was in Pullman for two maybe three days after they posted the Elantra online . That would explain why they didn’t move in on the car before recently .

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Brian or Brianne ? He isn't going to like jail or prison if he is convicted.

There was an article he always felt rejected by women. He solved that problem...he wont be rejected in jail or prison. Passed around yes, rejected no.

Did he do an evil act by murdering these four students Ed?

 

[CougEd]

Did he do an evil act by murdering these four students Ed?

How did this happen to me… I know your position on abortion and I will not get into it with your beliefs vs mine on this thread .

 

[95coug]

A couple things … first they reference to getting pulled over by a police officer in a suv . The officer said “we don’t have police in suv”. Was that the fbi keeping tabs on him who pulled him over the first time ?

Second if he is Indiana on the 15th and driving with his dad and he probably left Pullman on 10th or 11th … which means the car they were looking for probably was in Pullman for two maybe three days after they posted the Elantra online . That would explain why they didn’t move in on the car before recently .

The cop said it was probably a local cop or deputy wherever they were, it’s just Indiana SP doesn’t have SUVs.

The pace you describe is pretty leisurely. 4-5 days to cover that distance means only 400-500 miles per day. I could leave town at 6 tomorrow morning and sleep in indianapolis Thursday night without even speeding much, and without a 2nd driver. Being in Indiana at 3 on the 15th only tells me that he probably left Pullman no later than the 13th.

The class he was TA for had its final on Monday morning (Dec 12). It’d be easy to find out if he was there then. Also easy to find out when his dad flew in…which was supposedly pre-planned.

The car was never enough to move on. It was interesting because it was in the vicinity. It didn’t place him in the house. DNA did that.

Of course, there could be a ton that we don’t know. From what I’ve read so far, they didn’t know anything about this guy until the DNA came in.

 

[kougkurt]

 

[kougkurt]

If they were being followed the entire drive across country, I’m sure these two “pullovers”were planned Collect intel I imagine.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

How did this happen to me… I know your position on abortion and I will not get into it with your beliefs vs mine on this thread .

It was a simple question Ed. Why don't you like to answer simple straightforward questions?

 

[CougEd]

It was a simple question Ed. Why don't you like to answer simple straightforward questions?

I did answer your question . And remember when your teachers said there were no dumb questions .. they lied to you . There is your answer …

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

I did answer your question . And remember when your teachers said there were no dumb questions .. they lied to you . There is your answer …

You deflected. It's not a good look Ed.

 

[CougEd]

You deflected. It's not a good look Ed.

Not at all… I answered your question . It was a stupid question .