This was 100% on Leach. Listening to the pregame show...

[ttowncoug]

....Leach said they have a senior QB. Would look a lot like last year. 5 minutes prior Jessamyn knew a lot more about the PSU scheme etc.

Bottom line, out played, out coached, out right embarrassed.

That said, still think we have talent and will do ok, but that loss might have killed post season chances.

 

[SaveFerris]

....Leach said they have a senior QB. Would look a lot like last year. 5 minutes prior Jessamyn knew a lot more about the PSU scheme etc.

Bottom line, out played, out coached, out right embarrassed.

That said, still think we have talent and will do ok, but that loss might have killed post season chances.

A bowl game barely registers in my thinking at this point. FBS teams find a way to win these kind of games, flush it, and move on. Not us. We stink up our pants and make it infinitely worse by not finding a way to win. That's who we are today. Top to bottom it's hard to think there is a worse P5 program in the country. We just didn't look ready to play. Zero leadership, culture, whatever to pull out a win. It needs to get fixed now!

 

[jarvis1981]

A bowl game barely registers in my thinking at this point. FBS teams find a way to win these kind of games, flush it, and move on. Not us. We stink up our pants and make it infinitely worse by not finding a way to win. That's who we are today. Top to bottom it's hard to think there is a worse P5 program in the country. We just didn't look ready to play. Zero leadership, culture, whatever to pull out a win. It needs to get fixed now!

That's the thing that is most disturbing. Anytime the Cougs get some adversity they don't seem to adjust. Ok, bad weather with a lot of drops. So more short passes and running plays and keep possession longer; Portland St can only run..ok, put the corners on an island and force PSU to throw and their guys might drop a few as well.

Lack of adjustments, lack of mental toughness, lack of leadership, lack of confidence in making those adjustments. This team still seems frail. They have better football players than in the past and better size as well.

Biggest adjustments/improvements in a football year occur between games 1 and 2.
Well that needs to happen.

 

[chipdouglas]

My father-in-law - also a Coug - was suggesting the possibility of unrest in the conference. We hear this from rivals periodically. If WSU continues to be an absolute turd like they are and contribute nothing to the conference for stretches of 10 or 20 years, why not replace them with a more exciting performer that can bring in money? It would be one thing if we had some championships to look back on, but it's hard to ask for more time when you have zero hardware to point to, even if it's from 1991 like the Mutts. Are our deteriorating gray "2002 Rose Bowl" Oklahoma blowout sweatshirts good enough? Our 1997 Michigan loss? It sounds insane to suggest EWU or Boise State, but how much bigger is the Palouse, really? And if they can get signoff from Texas?

I admit it's unlikely and, if anything, in the distant future, but suddenly those claims seem less designed to hurt my feeling as a WSU fan and more... pragmatic.

 

[BiggsCoug]

The PAC 12 is first and foremost an academic conference. Boise State isn't getting in. With the medical school on the way I have a hard time seeing WSU get pushed out by another school with lesser academics.

WSU's biggest problem right now is culture.

 

[YakiCoug]

The PAC 12 is first and foremost an academic conference. Boise State isn't getting in. With the medical school on the way I have a hard time seeing WSU get pushed out by another school with lesser academics.

WSU's biggest problem right now is culture.

There is no question that many student-athletes who are helping programs such as EWU, PSU, or others scare or beat Pac-12 teams couldn't meet our conference academic admission requirements. It is what it is.

 

[SCglory]

The PAC 12 is first and foremost an academic conference. Boise State isn't getting in. With the medical school on the way I have a hard time seeing WSU get pushed out by another school with lesser academics.

WSU's biggest problem right now is culture.

?? Yeah, with academic powerhouses like Utah, Colorado, the zonas, sure, you bet, it's a real academic conference. Super-Conferences are coming, and money will be the bottom line, and as education itself is being redefined in the face of rising costs, even academic purists will hold their noses and vote in the changes.

4 16-team conferences, loosely geographically defined. Would WSU make the cut? Well, right now, they are on the bubble. If WSU played BSU or EWU 10 times, what would the outcome be? Sure, many schools cannot match Stanford's numbers of secondary sports and teams, but football pays the bills. And education keeps getting more and more expensive in a country with more and more "have nots"...if costs keep escalating and tuition-driven schools keep needing more and more students, where will the money come from? If this trend continues, I don't see WSU aligned a Western Superconference of 16 teams insofar as football. From an OUTSIDER'S perspective what does WSU bring to the table??

 

[dgibbons]

My father-in-law - also a Coug - was suggesting the possibility of unrest in the conference. We hear this from rivals periodically. If WSU continues to be an absolute turd like they are and contribute nothing to the conference for stretches of 10 or 20 years, why not replace them with a more exciting performer that can bring in money? It would be one thing if we had some championships to look back on, but it's hard to ask for more time when you have zero hardware to point to, even if it's from 1991 like the Mutts. Are our deteriorating gray "2002 Rose Bowl" Oklahoma blowout sweatshirts good enough? Our 1997 Michigan loss? It sounds insane to suggest EWU or Boise State, but how much bigger is the Palouse, really? And if they can get signoff from Texas?

I admit it's unlikely and, if anything, in the distant future, but suddenly those claims seem less designed to hurt my feeling as a WSU fan and more... pragmatic.

The way other other schools bring something to the table is by expanding the conference's footprint into a worthwhile TV market. The Texas schools are the only ones that offer anything in that regard.

 

[chipdouglas]

The way other other schools bring something to the table is by expanding the conference's footprint into a worthwhile TV market. The Texas schools are the only ones that offer anything in that regard.

Fair. But to SC's point, from an outsider's perspective, what are they walking away from by walking away from WSU and Pullman? The Spokane DMA? Scattered fans in the Tri-Cities and Seattle? You think that's too big for them to walk away from?

And academically speaking, we are by many estimates the worst academic school in the conference, and by all estimates, a bottom-quarter player.

I still think it's worse than a coin toss, but let's be honest - it's no longer far-fetched.

 

[CougPatrol]

WSU may one day get closed out, but even a Cougar pessimist like me doesn't see that happening. 2 schools in WA, 2 in OR, 2 in AZ, 2 in Northern Cal, 2 in Southern Cal.

It's balanced nicely, and as dgibb mentioned, the natural rivalries fit well with the TV markets. If we add schools, it's going to continue that trend. The BYU and UTAH pairing would be perfect if not for the Mormon alliance. Is Colorado St. an option? Not sure.

WSU is fortunate to be on the West Coast. There aren't a lot of no brainer replacements for us. Boise St., Fresno St., San Jose St., San Diego St.? Our place as UWs little brother is a blessing.

 

[dgibbons]

WSU may one day get closed out, but even a Cougar pessimist like me doesn't see that happening. 2 schools in WA, 2 in OR, 2 in AZ, 2 in Northern Cal, 2 in Southern Cal.

It's balanced nicely, and as dgibb mentioned, the natural rivalries fit well with the TV markets. If we add schools, it's going to continue that trend. The BYU and UTAH pairing would be perfect if not for the Mormon alliance. Is Colorado St. an option? Not sure.

WSU is fortunate to be on the West Coast. There aren't a lot of no brainer replacements for us. Boise St., Fresno St., San Jose St., San Diego St.? Our place as UWs little brother is a blessing.

Again, it's the TV money that drives conference expansion and realignment. Houston offers more than any of the schools you listed. Boise, Fresno, San Diego and the Bay Area are already within the PAC-12's footprint. They don't make the pie bigger, but they would have to get a slice.

 

[chinookpirate]

Agreed. If it becomes the Pac16, I have to think Houston is #1 on Larry Scott's list.

 

[wazzucougs96]

My father-in-law - also a Coug - was suggesting the possibility of unrest in the conference. We hear this from rivals periodically. If WSU continues to be an absolute turd like they are and contribute nothing to the conference for stretches of 10 or 20 years, why not replace them with a more exciting performer that can bring in money? It would be one thing if we had some championships to look back on, but it's hard to ask for more time when you have zero hardware to point to, even if it's from 1991 like the Mutts. Are our deteriorating gray "2002 Rose Bowl" Oklahoma blowout sweatshirts good enough? Our 1997 Michigan loss? It sounds insane to suggest EWU or Boise State, but how much bigger is the Palouse, really? And if they can get signoff from Texas?

I admit it's unlikely and, if anything, in the distant future, but suddenly those claims seem less designed to hurt my feeling as a WSU fan and more... pragmatic.

You're a moron. Your father in law is also a moron.

 

[425cougfan]

Fair. But to SC's point, from an outsider's perspective, what are they walking away from by walking away from WSU and Pullman? The Spokane DMA? Scattered fans in the Tri-Cities and Seattle? You think that's too big for them to walk away from?

And academically speaking, we are by many estimates the worst academic school in the conference, and by all estimates, a bottom-quarter player.

I still think it's worse than a coin toss, but let's be honest - it's no longer far-fetched.

Chip, you're pretty reasonable on some other topics, but you're leaning on the crutch of hyperbole here. First, you mentioned EWU sounding insane, but then implied it's a possibility. That is, indeed, insane. If you had stopped at Boise State, that would still be wildly unlikely for reasons others supplied, but you didn't. Second, you refer to "many estimates" that have WSU as the worst academic school in the conference. Where are those?

 

[chipdouglas]

Chip, you're pretty reasonable on some other topics, but you're leaning on the crutch of hyperbole here. First, you mentioned EWU sounding insane, but then implied it's a possibility. That is, indeed, insane. If you had stopped at Boise State, that would still be wildly unlikely for reasons others supplied, but you didn't. Second, you refer to "many estimates" that have WSU as the worst academic school in the conference. Where are those?

Appreciate the vote of confidence, even if I rarely deserve the title of "reasonable."

With a night to sleep on it, EWU still sounds insane. If anything it's a lateral move and the opportunity isn't clear and sizeable.

Boise State to me is a bit more practical, with a metropolitan area having 50%+ more people than Spokane and less fanbase fragmentation than Spokane, which, unlike BSU, is already 75 miles removed from campus. Arguably, you even have most of Idaho's 1.6 million - as well as a recent history of BCS hardware. I still think of this as a long-term possibility because it's not like the upgrade is so big, the powers-that-be are leaving big money on the table every year they don't flinch.

But I think everyone could understand the threat if the P12 were looking to upgrade and Texas (or similar) loomed. This is a very clear upgrade for the PAC, and a possibility that has been on the table every year since 2010. If college football restructures into superconferences and aims to trim some fat, there is little we have to offer that 60+ other teams can't simultaneously outdo financially, academically and athletically.

Regarding academic rankings, I'm talking about QS World Rankings (and at times US News), which for a time had WSU ahead of the Oregon schools, but in the last 3-4 years have had us dead last in the conference - but which at all times had us in the cellar.

 

[chipdouglas]

You're a moron. Your father in law is also a moron.

And you have the mind of a child. So where do we go from here?

 

[ElComanche]

Moos placed absolute trust in Leach. On the surface all was looking good. however Leach choices of coaches leaves a lot to be desired. i am sure that two or three of his coaches would not have been hired anywhere else in the PAC 12.The outcome on the field makes WSU a shaky risk for the rest of the league.Perhaps Moos needs to put a boot into leach's posterior and tell him that he needs to start producing If he does not,then his eccentric personality makes him a joke instead of cracking jokes.Hell they are paying leach a lot of money and he is not living up to the trust placed in giving him absolute control of the program Of course the rest of the league may be saying we may be better off without WSU,they are an embarrassment. If leach does not win the next three games then the alumni and boosters will place both Moos and leach on the hot seat. It is a business and thats the way it should be,

 

[Observer11]

Appreciate the vote of confidence, even if I rarely deserve the title of "reasonable."

With a night to sleep on it, EWU still sounds insane. If anything it's a lateral move and the opportunity isn't clear and sizeable.

Boise State to me is a bit more practical, with a metropolitan area having 50%+ more people than Spokane and less fanbase fragmentation than Spokane, which, unlike BSU, is already 75 miles removed from campus. Arguably, you even have most of Idaho's 1.6 million - as well as a recent history of BCS hardware. I still think of this as a long-term possibility because it's not like the upgrade is so big, the powers-that-be are leaving big money on the table every year they don't flinch.

But I think everyone could understand the threat if the P12 were looking to upgrade and Texas (or similar) loomed. This is a very clear upgrade for the PAC, and a possibility that has been on the table every year since 2010. If college football restructures into superconferences and aims to trim some fat, there is little we have to offer that 60+ other teams can't simultaneously outdo financially, academically and athletically.

Regarding academic rankings, I'm talking about QS World Rankings (and at times US News), which for a time had WSU ahead of the Oregon schools, but in the last 3-4 years have had us dead last in the conference - but which at all times had us in the cellar.

The Spokane DMA is about 40 spots higher than Boise. There are a ton of people who live east of the mountains. Boise has a sizeable mass in the city proper/Ada County but then you are talking tiny towns.

 

[wazzucougs96]

Appreciate the vote of confidence, even if I rarely deserve the title of "reasonable."

With a night to sleep on it, EWU still sounds insane. If anything it's a lateral move and the opportunity isn't clear and sizeable.

Boise State to me is a bit more practical, with a metropolitan area having 50%+ more people than Spokane and less fanbase fragmentation than Spokane, which, unlike BSU, is already 75 miles removed from campus. Arguably, you even have most of Idaho's 1.6 million - as well as a recent history of BCS hardware. I still think of this as a long-term possibility because it's not like the upgrade is so big, the powers-that-be are leaving big money on the table every year they don't flinch.

But I think everyone could understand the threat if the P12 were looking to upgrade and Texas (or similar) loomed. This is a very clear upgrade for the PAC, and a possibility that has been on the table every year since 2010. If college football restructures into superconferences and aims to trim some fat, there is little we have to offer that 60+ other teams can't simultaneously outdo financially, academically and athletically.

Regarding academic rankings, I'm talking about QS World Rankings (and at times US News), which for a time had WSU ahead of the Oregon schools, but in the last 3-4 years have had us dead last in the conference - but which at all times had us in the cellar.

You are just trolling at this point. Someone ban this UW troll.

 

[425cougfan]

Appreciate the vote of confidence, even if I rarely deserve the title of "reasonable."

With a night to sleep on it, EWU still sounds insane. If anything it's a lateral move and the opportunity isn't clear and sizeable.

Boise State to me is a bit more practical, with a metropolitan area having 50%+ more people than Spokane and less fanbase fragmentation than Spokane, which, unlike BSU, is already 75 miles removed from campus. Arguably, you even have most of Idaho's 1.6 million - as well as a recent history of BCS hardware. I still think of this as a long-term possibility because it's not like the upgrade is so big, the powers-that-be are leaving big money on the table every year they don't flinch.

But I think everyone could understand the threat if the P12 were looking to upgrade and Texas (or similar) loomed. This is a very clear upgrade for the PAC, and a possibility that has been on the table every year since 2010. If college football restructures into superconferences and aims to trim some fat, there is little we have to offer that 60+ other teams can't simultaneously outdo financially, academically and athletically.

Regarding academic rankings, I'm talking about QS World Rankings (and at times US News), which for a time had WSU ahead of the Oregon schools, but in the last 3-4 years have had us dead last in the conference - but which at all times had us in the cellar.

Have to say that you're right about WSU's place in the US News rankings -- WSU is now tied with OSU. It is essentially tied with Utah, ASU, and Arizona, though, and I'm hopeful the medical school may place it firmly ahead of Oregon State, at least, and solidify its standing overall. As you note, WSU historically has been more in the range of 9th or 10th in the conference. Not great in the conference but pretty decent overall.

A few other interesting points from those rankings:

- Oregon's standing (while still nothing special - #106) has increased fairly significantly, which may show the effects of athletic success on selectivity and other metrics that go into these rankings.
- The vaunted UW is now below the University of Florida in the rankings and down at #48 overall.

As for Boise State, it's tied for #63 in the "West Regional" rankings, a tier well below the national research universities that WSU and all other Pac-12 schools are ranked in. Even in that tier, Boise State is 12 spots below the academic powerhouse known as Central Washington University. I know all too well that money is king and will continue to be so, but Boise and Idaho aren't huge markets and there's just no way the Pac-12 could credibly bring in a school that terrible academically.

 

[chipdouglas]

You are just trolling at this point. Someone ban this UW troll.

Nice. Like the guy who shows up in the final days of the Woof era and starts filling out requests to ban senior members. Tell me - is your posting career here mainly calling other people morons, then asking for them to be banned when they respond? Or do you have another parlor trick you'd like to show us?

Either come correct with a substantive argument, or climb back in your trailer.

 

[wazzucougs96]

Nice. Like the guy who shows up in the final days of the Woof era and starts filling out requests to ban senior members. Tell me - is your posting career here mainly calling other people morons, then asking for them to be banned when they respond? Or do you have another parlor trick you'd like to show us?

Either come correct with a substantive argument, or climb back in your trailer.

Posting pure speculation that has been debunked time and time again about WSU possibly getting kicked out of the conference is the exact opposite of substantive.

You are a trolling, and should be banned for it. It provides nothing of merit to the forum. I have no problem calling a spade a spade.

 

[chipdouglas]

The Spokane DMA is about 40 spots higher than Boise. There are a ton of people who live east of the mountains. Boise has a sizeable mass in the city proper/Ada County but then you are talking tiny towns.

On second look you're right (see how the adults talk, '96?). Judging by metro areas Boise ousts Spokane, but I have a sheet from work provided to me directly by Nielsen which shows the Spokane DMA is actually 50% larger than Boise. Of course, as I said there are the additional considerations that BSU is in Boise and WSU is not in Spokane, plus the fragmentation of EWU/Gonzaga/WSU etc. That said, point taken - another reason a Boise pick is unlikely.

 

[chipdouglas]

Posting pure speculation that has been debunked time and time again about WSU possibly getting kicked out of the conference is the exact opposite of substantive.

You are a trolling, and should be banned for it. It provides nothing of merit to the forum. I have no problem calling a spade a spade.

Are you a cartoon? You're fishing for our admiration by puffing your chest out, snapping your suspenders and announcing that you've been known to "call a spade a spade"? That is really cool.

This could spin off into a whole new thread about people who don't know what "trolling" means - which is most people at this point I think. I suspect you're not terribly tech savvy. Are you accessing this site from Netscape Navigator on your Gateway desktop?

Go sit at the kids' table.

 

[Coug95man2]

My father-in-law - also a Coug - was suggesting the possibility of unrest in the conference. We hear this from rivals periodically. If WSU continues to be an absolute turd like they are and contribute nothing to the conference for stretches of 10 or 20 years, why not replace them with a more exciting performer that can bring in money? It would be one thing if we had some championships to look back on, but it's hard to ask for more time when you have zero hardware to point to, even if it's from 1991 like the Mutts. Are our deteriorating gray "2002 Rose Bowl" Oklahoma blowout sweatshirts good enough? Our 1997 Michigan loss? It sounds insane to suggest EWU or Boise State, but how much bigger is the Palouse, really? And if they can get signoff from Texas?

I admit it's unlikely and, if anything, in the distant future, but suddenly those claims seem less designed to hurt my feeling as a WSU fan and more... pragmatic.

Holy Chicken Little! We have a bad, bad loss to a mediocre MW team and now we are suggesting that our place in the conference is jeopardy?! Come on. Step away from the ledge. Sun sinks, moon comes out, then the sun will rise. No panic needed just because of a bad loss.

 

[wazzucougs96]

Are you a cartoon? You're fishing for our admiration by puffing your chest out, snapping your suspenders and announcing that you've been known to "call a spade a spade"? That is really cool.

This could spin off into a whole new thread about people who don't know what "trolling" means - which is most people at this point I think. I suspect you're not terribly tech savvy. Are you accessing this site from Netscape Navigator on your Gateway desktop?

Go sit at the kids' table.

You are trying so hard. Please, keep telling us about how we are doomed to never compete and are going to get kicked out of the conference. I love that baseless, speculative conversation.

I'll talk to you like an adult when you show that you are an adult, and not an aforementioned chicken little.

 

[Coug1990]

Holy Chicken Little! We have a bad, bad loss to a mediocre MW team and now we are suggesting that our place in the conference is jeopardy?! Come on. Step away from the ledge. Sun sinks, moon comes out, then the sun will rise. No panic needed just because of a bad loss.

WSU will also never get a med school. It is impossible. I am sure that Dr. Floyd heard that many times. If OSU never got kicked out of the conference during their almost three decades spent in the abyss, then WSU is fine.

 

[Coug95man2]

WSU will also never get a med school. It is impossible. I am sure that Dr. Floyd heard that many times. If OSU never got kicked out of the conference during their almost three decades spent in the abyss, then WSU is fine.

And U of O prior to Uncies money. Laughing stock for decades. Their ceiling was mediocre for a very long time

 

[chipdouglas]

Holy Chicken Little! We have a bad, bad loss to a mediocre MW team and now we are suggesting that our place in the conference is jeopardy?! Come on. Step away from the ledge. Sun sinks, moon comes out, then the sun will rise. No panic needed just because of a bad loss.

On the one hand we have people saying this is an old canard; it's been said many times but it's impossible! On the other, we have people saying the only conceivable explanation for the talk is this particular bad loss.

Which is it?

Returning to my OP, if one read carefully (impossible, I know), you'll be surprised to find I was quoting my WSU grad father-in-law sadly echoing what were once insults from rivals ("you're so bad you'll get booted from the conference"). Throughout, I have used words like "long-term", "long shot" and "unlikely", but naturally, that has turned into, in true message board form, me allegedly saying it's imminent and inevitable (!) while wiser sages disagree. In fact, what others here are claiming, implicitly or explicitly, is that it's impossible. While we ALL agree it's fundamentally unlikely, in the era of imminent conference restructuring, it is no longer impossible.

 

[Coug95man2]

On the one hand we have people saying this is an old canard; it's been said many times but it's impossible! On the other, we have people saying the only conceivable explanation for the talk is this particular bad loss.

Which is it?

Returning to my OP, if one read carefully (impossible, I know), you'll be surprised to find I was quoting my WSU grad father-in-law sadly echoing what were once insults from rivals ("you're so bad you'll get booted from the conference"). Throughout, I have used words like "long-term", "long shot" and "unlikely", but naturally, that has turned into, in true message board form, me allegedly saying it's imminent and inevitable (!) while wiser sages disagree. In fact, what others here are claiming, implicitly or explicitly, is that it's impossible. While we ALL agree it's fundamentally unlikely, in the era of imminent conference restructuring, it is no longer impossible.

Two things:
The "old canard" and "only conceivable explanation" aren't exclusive, you know. It's not like we are all one person. So your dad-in-law hears it. Means nothing. You come on here, it's the old canard. See how it can happen both ways...

To your OP, I realize I quoted you but there were others than chimed in on this. To me, for it to even be a conversation gives it an element of validity. I don't think it's valid in any way. Hence, I think for it to even be a point of conversation, is a Chicken Little situation. It's like having my son back in the day, tell me about when the zombies come, what are we going to do?! Do we have enough water? What about hunting? Do we just run or do we barricade ourselves? It's not going to happen… so who cares? I actually laughed a little, just based on the subject, not any one individual post.