Tony Bennett followed providential path to UVA

[SaveFerris]

This article won't be for everyone but saw it on brandy. Tough read but has some interesting details on UVA going after Tony and how multiple people were involved in Tony to WSU and UVA.

I did find this quote applicable to us:

"You just can’t take any really good basketball coach, put him at the University of Virginia and expect to be successful,” Littlepage says. “It was going to be somebody that had a strong background defensively, that had a background in selecting kids that would be uniquely fitting at the University of Virginia from an academic standpoint and from a basketball standpoint as well. And someone that had a demonstrated history of being able to build programs at places that might not necessarily be top-10 programs.”

Anyway, here it is:

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/uva/dp-spt-tony-bennett-uva-0314-story.html

 

[avabob1]

Read the article. Wasn't aware that Tony was getting as much interest from other schools prior to leaving. Also from a trivia point. A pastor Chadwick was mentioned in the article. Wasn't that the name of the kid who signed with Tony at WSU prior to him leaving.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Read the article. Wasn't aware that Tony was getting as much interest from other schools prior to leaving. Also from a trivia point. A pastor Chadwick was mentioned in the article. Wasn't that the name of the kid who signed with Tony at WSU prior to him leaving.

You mean Lodwick? From Hooterville,? (J/K I loved Abe)

This article is fascinating. I met John Oliver more than once when he was at WSU. I thought he was a good guy.

The article also confirms what has been surmised by many - Tony's wife wanted out of Pullman. Tony would have stayed.

Additionally, We should have hired this McKay when Tony got the UV job. Although we also should have hired Tony's top asst Ben Johnson(?) complete with his Aussie connections.

On a related note, it was nice to see Aron Baynes mentioned - although perhaps by attribution....

“You look at his former players, they’re all doing some pretty special stuff. I think as he sees more and more of that, it will impact his thinking on the NBA. … He’s one of the most competitive people I’ve ever seen, and the opportunity at the highest level is something

 

[SaveFerris]

Read the article. Wasn't aware that Tony was getting as much interest from other schools prior to leaving. Also from a trivia point. A pastor Chadwick was mentioned in the article. Wasn't that the name of the kid who signed with Tony at WSU prior to him leaving.

I think you are correct. Tony was after Singler (sp?) but he looked headed to Oregon. Chadwick was let out of his LOI and he ended up at a mid-major closer to home.

The article also confirms what has been surmised by many - Tony's wife wanted out of Pullman. Tony would have stayed.

Think on it for 24 hours? They didn’t mention the part after that part when she said “because me and the kids are out of here with or without you. “ Ha, kidding. I’m sure it was a joint decision. Seriously, UVA is a great fit for him and family.

Maybe we should have hired Ron Sanchez. Still was surprised he was the only one who went with him.

 

[bogusto]

You mean Lodwick? From Hooterville,? (J/K I loved Abe)

This article is fascinating. I met John Oliver more than once when he was at WSU. I thought he was a good guy.

The article also confirms what has been surmised by many - Tony's wife wanted out of Pullman. Tony would have stayed.

Additionally, We should have hired this McKay when Tony got the UV job. Although we also should have hired Tony's top asst Ben Johnson(?) complete with his Aussie connections.

On a related note, it was nice to see Aron Baynes mentioned - although perhaps by attribution....

“You look at his former players, they’re all doing some pretty special stuff. I think as he sees more and more of that, it will impact his thinking on the NBA. … He’s one of the most competitive people I’ve ever seen, and the opportunity at the highest level is something

McKay washed out at Oregon State with some not so nice stories surfacing after his departure. His hiring by Tony had me completely mystified until I read this article.

 

[Cougsocal]

Did I read this right....

"Bennett picked up the phone to call Littlepage and decline. His wife stopped him.

“I wasn’t trying to persuade him,” Laurel Bennett says. “I felt like we needed to pray about this. We had done all the pros and cons, all the traditional stuff that way, but we decided we were going to pray about it. And part of that prayer is always, ‘Let us be on the same page.’ We kept going back and forth; we kept changing our minds. …

“He did, he had the phone in his hand. He was ready to do it."

It was God who ultimately convinced Tony to leave. Hey, Big Guy, I was told that you had stopped your evil ways -- turned over a new leaf -- Mr. Kind and merciful now. No more smiting Sodom and Gomorrah, tormenting Job, killing innocent baby Egyptians, ordering genocide, yada, yada, yada. Well, damn it, what do you have to say for yourself? Couldn't resist? Leave us Cougs alone ... or ... we will go back to worshipping Baal.

 

[SaveFerris]

Did I read this right....

"Bennett picked up the phone to call Littlepage and decline. His wife stopped him.

“I wasn’t trying to persuade him,” Laurel Bennett says. “I felt like we needed to pray about this. We had done all the pros and cons, all the traditional stuff that way, but we decided we were going to pray about it. And part of that prayer is always, ‘Let us be on the same page.’ We kept going back and forth; we kept changing our minds. …

“He did, he had the phone in his hand. He was ready to do it."

It was God who ultimately convinced Tony to leave. Hey, Big Guy, I was told that you had stopped your evil ways -- turned over a new leaf -- Mr. Kind and merciful now. No more smiting Sodom and Gomorrah, tormenting Job, killing innocent baby Egyptians, ordering genocide, yada, yada, yada. Well, damn it, what do you have to say for yourself? Couldn't resist? Leave us Cougs alone ... or ... we will go back to worshipping Baal.

Pretty obvious where Mrs. Bennett was on the decision. Definitely a tough read.

 

[avabob1]

I was shocked and upset with Tony when he first left. I knew we couldn't keep him for very long, but felt he owed us a couple more years. Over time I realized that a couple more years wouldn't have made any difference in the long run. Might have been marginally better than Bone, but he still wouldn't have left the program in a position for great success no matter who replaced him.

 

[SaveFerris]

I was shocked and upset with Tony when he first left. I knew we couldn't keep him for very long, but felt he owed us a couple more years. Over time I realized that a couple more years wouldn't have made any difference in the long run. Might have been marginally better than Bone, but he still wouldn't have left the program in a position for great success no matter who replaced him.

Marginally better than Bone? Ok.

 

[FnuLnu]

Marginally better than Bone? Ok.

"might have been marginally better than Bone" (so possibly not even that)

 

[avabob1]

You are only as good as your players. Tony, much better than Bone, but why would he have improved on his last season with Rochestie and Baynes gone. Not saying things wouldnt have been vastly different if he had stayed for 10 years. My point was we were in a rebuild, and had he stayed 2 more years it wouldn't have put us in any better position today

 

[avabob1]

Here is our roster if Tony returned for the 2010 season:

koprivicia sr
Klay. So
Capers So
Casto. So
Lodwick. So
Harthun. So
Watson. So
Witherill. So
Chadwick Fr
Thames Fr
Motum. Fr
Brown. Fr
Enquist Fr. Walk on

Thames starts as a true frosh. No back up pg. Casto Klay Capers and Nick or Lodwick round out the starting lineup.

That team might sneak in to the NIT, but isnt going dancing

 

[jourdand]

Harris would have been on that team and made a big impact.

 

[avabob1]

No. Harris would have been on the 2011 team. I know it is all opinion and speculation, but I don't see how that 2010 team with Tony is as good as his 2009 team that was one and done in NIT.

 

[Glad Cougar]

Why do we continue to argue this? Nobody is going to change their mind. We are now heading into year 5 of Kent after 5 years of Bone.

Glad Cougar

 

[CougPatrol]

Considering the way so many coaches leave, I admire the way Tony left and how he’s explained the situation since his departure. I knew his wife wanted out. I posted that during the time of the uncertainty. You can’t blame her. She wanted to be more closely connected to civilization. To her and his family. I’ve been there Virgina many times. It’s a great state and really good University.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Here is our roster if Tony returned for the 2010 season:

koprivicia sr
Klay. So
Capers So
Casto. So
Lodwick. So
Harthun. So
Watson. So
Witherill. So
Chadwick Fr
Thames Fr
Motum. Fr
Brown. Fr
Enquist Fr. Walk on

Thames starts as a true frosh. No back up pg. Casto Klay Capers and Nick or Lodwick round out the starting lineup.

That team might sneak in to the NIT, but isnt going dancing

I will defer to your BB knowledge - and my memory is dimming on all these guys. But Thames, Nick, Klay, Capers and Lodwick don't pale all that much compared to Low, Kyle, Robbie, Aron and Daven during the first NCAA run. I think we give those guys (and Gump) more credit for being great athletes than they deserve (except Baynes - swoon) than we give the system. Rochestie fell in our lap, maybe someone else would have too.

Point being, I don't think it is fair at all to say tat we "might have been marginally better" if Tony had stayed 2 more years. I think we would have been a lot better positioned for sustained relevance 2 years later.

 

[ElComanche]

I was glad to see TB go down It was fun to see his supporters gulp in disbelief. Those fans who want slo ball and think you can win with a bunch of guys who can t jump. The alphabet team started fast and speed-ed up the game. TB s team were incapable of speeding up their game to keep pace. It is more about the Jimmies and the Joes than the X s and the O's. Gladdens my heart

 

[avabob1]

Thames as a frosh was not close to Low or Rochestie. Capers not close to Weaver. Casto was a better athlete than Baynes but zero basketball IQ. I do think Lodwick could have been as valuable as Harmeling, but just didn't get the touches with Klay on the floor.

Bottom line Tony's sweet 16 team was special. Loss of Weaver and Cowgill replaced by capers and Forrest explains the drop off from Sweet 16 team. Loss of Rochestie and Baynes with no upper class starters returning the next year explains further drop off.

Tony is an excellent coach, but the continued evolution of the 3 point game puts a lot of pressure on his defense. Would we have been better had he stayed? Yes , but we would have needed him for more than 1 or 2 years more to really make any big difference.

 

[SaveFerris]

Glad is probably correct here. This has been argued for years with few open minds on either side but I guess I can't help myself. A core of Thames, Harris (2010), Thompson, Motum, and Casto would have looked pretty good to me. A few players on the 2009 and 2010 rosters wouldn't have been around so who knows what we would have looked like.

When it comes down to it I really had trouble with the "might be marginally better than Bone." comment but that's just me.

 

[avabob1]

Harris would have been a frosh on the 2010-11 team. No question that would have been a nice core of players but Thames and particularly Motum were not ready to contribute to a winning team as frosh. We got to final 4 of NIT in Klays junior year which would have been Harris frosh season. Might have done better than that with Tony, although the much maligned Reggie Moore was a key contributor on that team.

What really interests me is how Klay would have developed under Tony. Klay was very effective as a catch and shoot freshman. However His mentality was that of a volume shooter. Bone put the ball in his hands more than the pg. Klay is NBA either way, but it would be interesting how he developed under Tony.

 

[SaveFerris]

Harris would have been a frosh on the 2010-11 team. No question that would have been a nice core of players but Thames and particularly Motum were not ready to contribute to a winning team as frosh. We got to final 4 of NIT in Klays junior year which would have been Harris frosh season. Might have done better than that with Tony, although the much maligned Reggie Moore was a key contributor on that team.

What really interests me is how Klay would have developed under Tony. Klay was very effective as a catch and shoot freshman. However His mentality was that of a volume shooter. Bone put the ball in his hands more than the pg. Klay is NBA either way, but it would be interesting how he developed under Tony.

I haven't thought about it quite this way but if Tony stays we most likely get Harris instead of Moore with Bone. Harris actually averaged more points/game (10.4) in 2010 for UVA than Moore did (9.1) in his sophomore year for us.

Harris also shot a higher percentage across the board (FG 41.8%/3FG 41.7%/FT 75.9%) than Moore (FG 35.2%/3 FG 36.8%/FT 74.8%). Keep in mind Harris obviously played at a much slower pace and...probably played some defense.

I definitely think Bone helped Thompson's game expand because he asked him to do more but I don't know that it wouldn't have happened with Tony as well. Obviously a Kyle Weaver was asked to do more than just be a spot shooter. I don't know about Thames as a frosh let alone if he had stayed. He mostly played off the ball as a true freshman and his minutes were all over the place. He wasn't exactly allowed a lot of freedom like what Bone did with Moore. Thames would have been asked to do different things with Tony year 1 and 2. Bennett and Bone ran different systems so it's not an easy comparison.

I would definitely take the trade of Joe Harris for Reggie Moore let alone Tony/Harris for Bone/Moore.

 

[avabob1]

So would I on Harris for Moore, but Harris wouldn't have been here till Bones second season ( Tony's fifth) That first year was an awfully green team, despite the talent if Klay.
I am not trying to say we wouldn't have been better had Tony stayed. Just believe there would have been a further drop in 2010 even if Tony hadn't left.

 

[Observer11]

No question in my mind that WSU would have been better had Tony stayed rather than the Bone years which begat the dark ages of Ernie Kent.

There may have been a re-load period but with Baynes getting time in the NBA, Klay Thompson blowing up with the Warriors and (maybe) Casto keeping his head screwed on straight, Tony would have had a pretty compelling recruiting pitch. The Aussie pipeline would have solidified, if not strengthened (what if Jock Londale at St. Mary's had ended up at WSU instead?). No question Joe Harris ends up at WSU and that would have led to more inroads into the AAU scene with guys at Friends of Hoop and Western Washington (Romar would likely have still kept paying...errr, Nate and BRoy would have kept paying for Rotary recruits).

And even if he'd have left after a few more years, the program would have been in infinitely better shape that where it was when Moos culled his deep rolodex and hire an unemployed croney - and perhaps could have pulled from some of the guys who are currently in the Sweet 16 with mid-major.

 

[avabob1]

No question if we could have kept him for 3 or 4 more years things would have been different. I never thought we could keep him that long which is why I arbitrarily used the 5 year mark. The article doesn't talk about it, but I have to think his inability to make inroads in northwest recruiting was a factor in leaving along with his wife, and Virginia being something of a dream job for him

 

[ElComanche]

Well he just had a little nightmare and his number one ranked team made history. He did not have his daddy to help him here. Perhaps the sloball so beloved by some posters is not quite up to the task of winning the big games?Either he did not possess outstanding talent or he is not quite the coach people are claiming he is? I loved the defeat. The little nerds on the other site can only cope by calling him" classy in defeat" Their hero got knocked on his butt and they swoon at his feet. i love the hypocrisy of it all.

 

[7ICoug]

Well he just had a little nightmare and his number one ranked team made history. He did not have his daddy to help him here. Perhaps the sloball so beloved by some posters is not quite up to the task of winning the big games?Either he did not possess outstanding talent or he is not quite the coach people are claiming he is? I loved the defeat. The little nerds on the other site can only cope by calling him" classy in defeat" Their hero got knocked on his butt and they swoon at his feet. i love the hypocrisy of it all.

Well I for one don't much care if UVA won or lost but its not lost on me that your hero hasn't even made it to 500 ball yet, nor will be ever.

 

[ElComanche]

Well what do you know,a closet bennett supporter? i think not ! Kent is not my ":hero:" i just want him to succeed as the cougs will also as we all know. I just wonder why certain posters rather him lose every game to insure he will not succeed.?" Hmm.. The true answer lies in the hearts of those who want him to fail .,damn the consequences You will smoke yourselves out. i love it,allow the hate.hate ,good good ,sounds like Star Wars stuff

 

[Observer11]

Well what do you know,a closet bennett supporter? i think not ! Kent is not my ":hero:" i just want him to succeed as the cougs will also as we all know. I just wonder why certain posters rather him lose every game to insure he will not succeed.?" Hmm.. The true answer lies in the hearts of those who want him to fail .,damn the consequences You will smoke yourselves out. i love it,allow the hate.hate ,good good ,sounds like Star Wars stuff

Ernie's not going to succeed in Pullman. He's just not. I don't want him to fail. But can say with absolute certainty he is not going to have success in Pullman. That's not hate. That's the reality of things.

Moos f'd over the basketball program with his buddy hire. Ernie's tried. He simply doesn't have 'it" when it comes to winning in Pullman.

It is what it is. Unless President Schlutz wants to break the bank and hire Eric Mussleman who just pulled off another miracle in beating a 2 seed. That dude can flat out out coach -and his talent is miles ahead of WSU's in just his third year as head coach.

 

[avabob1]

Why would Mussleman take a job where the high water mark is middle of the PAC and a bubble team given the resources and attitude of most Cougar fans.

Besides he is a " run and gun" style coach and we all know you can only win playing Bennett ball in Pullman

 

[Glad Cougar]

Let me put my spin on that last sentence....in my opinion, you CAN'T win by playing run and gun while being careless with the basketball and not committing to playing defense. Musselman probably agrees.
Glad Cougar

 

[SaveFerris]

So would I on Harris for Moore, but Harris wouldn't have been here till Bones second season ( Tony's fifth) That first year was an awfully green team, despite the talent if Klay.
I am not trying to say we wouldn't have been better had Tony stayed. Just believe there would have been a further drop in 2010 even if Tony hadn't left.

Yes, Harris wouldn't have been around until Thompson's and Casto's junior year. The stats provided were Harris' freshman year and Moore's sophomore year. They played different positions but it appears Harris made a bigger impact than Moore playing at a slower pace. So even if you think Moore is unfairly maligned it appears Harris would have made at least a similar impact over the 2 years they were in college at the same time (Moore's soph/junior and Harris' freshman/soph).

Bottom line to me is this narrative that Tony left the cupboard bare and therefore Bone was in an impossible position is ridiculous to me. There was a good core of talent left on the roster and not getting to the Tournament in 2010 (Bone's second year) was under performing that year.

 

[avabob1]

Bone wasn't in an "impossible" situation. It was just a rebuild with a very young group of talent. Fans thought WSU should have gone to the dance in 2010, but it would have been a monumental achievement for either Tony or Bone given a roster full of frosh and sophs with no quality depth. 2010 was more like 2006 in terms of experience.

Tony is a great coach, but remember, He and Dick only landed one player in 6 classes that was a major contributor as a frosh. Harris would have been the second. Bones inability to recruit enough talent caught up with him, and injuries did him in his third season.

 

[SaveFerris]

Bone wasn't in an "impossible" situation. It was just a rebuild with a very young group of talent. Fans thought WSU should have gone to the dance in 2010, but it would have been a monumental achievement for either Tony or Bone given a roster full of frosh and sophs with no quality depth. 2010 was more like 2006 in terms of experience.

Tony is a great coach, but remember, He and Dick only landed one player in 6 classes that was a major contributor as a frosh. Harris would have been the second. Bones inability to recruit enough talent caught up with him, and injuries did him in his third season.

The 2010/2011 team or Thompson's Junior season was a Tournament team talent wise. Off court issues derailed that team. I don't remember many taking Bone to task his first year. No doubt year 2.

 

[avabob1]

Guys on these boards were all over Bone from Day 1. He didn't play Bennett ball, and had the audacity to play Reggie Moore over Thames.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Bone wasn't in an "impossible" situation. It was just a rebuild with a very young group of talent. Fans thought WSU should have gone to the dance in 2010, but it would have been a monumental achievement for either Tony or Bone given a roster full of frosh and sophs with no quality depth. 2010 was more like 2006 in terms of experience.

Tony is a great coach, but remember, He and Dick only landed one player in 6 classes that was a major contributor as a frosh. Harris would have been the second. Bones inability to recruit enough talent caught up with him, and injuries did him in his third season.

Guys on these boards were all over Bone from Day 1. He didn't play Bennett ball, and had the audacity to play Reggie Moore over Thames.

I don't know ava, you are kind of playing both sides here. You have said previously that the cupboard was bare for Bone. Above you say it was a rebuild with "young talent". Well if the talent is already on campus it isn't really a "rebuild", is it? And you point out that Dick and Tony's freshmen did not contribute. Ok, so we could surmise that the "young talent" left for Bone could have grown into the Low/Cowgill/Weaver quality team that Dick/Tony developed. If they had better coaching and a better, appropriate system.

And yeah, running Thames off, however it happened, was a major mistake in hindsight.

 

[avabob1]

I guess it depends on how you define rebuild. Bone inherited a team that only had frosh and sophs, most of whom were at least a year away from being PAC 12 ready. It wasn't a rebuild in terms of coming from the cellar, but it was a rebuild in terms if replacing the top 7 players from the Sweet 16 team of 2 years earlier. Note that even with Klay, Tony wasn't exactly reloading in his last season as his win total dropped from 26 to 18. The loss of 3 more key seniors made it a rebuild for Bone in my opinion despite the future potential of Motum Thames Capers and lodwick.

I would argue that the young talent did develop under Bone as they went to NIT final 4 his second season. We can argue forever whether it would have developed more under Tony. Maybe it would have, but Bones problem was not in developing players, but in finding enough with great upside.

 

[avabob1]

Also, Bone didn't run Thames. Thames played 19 minutes per game as a frosh, and Bone desperately hated losing him. Thames was a reluctant recruit from the beginning. Tony had courted him for a year, but he didn't commit until it became clear he wouldn't get offered by any any top California program.

 

[SaveFerris]

Also, Bone didn't run Thames. Thames played 19 minutes per game as a frosh, and Bone desperately hated losing him. Thames was a reluctant recruit from the beginning. Tony had courted him for a year, but he didn't commit until it became clear he wouldn't get offered by any any top California program.

He wasn't run but Bone needed to find a way to keep him in Pullman. He was a significant loss.