Not official yet, but a lot of rumblings that Utah and either Colorado or ASU are leaving for the B12. UCLA's brandx board admin stating it's a done deal. Nothing official from Utah yet.
Interesting.
Interesting.
Utah and one other leaving for Big12
- Thread starter CougPatrol
- Start date
Found this on Reddit discussing it, with it having come from David Woods on "Podcast of Champions," whatever that is.
Quote from the Reddit poster below. Sounds like this should be taken with many grains of salt.
Quote from the Reddit poster below. Sounds like this should be taken with many grains of salt.
It's running wild on the message boards of Utah, Colorado, UCLA, and SC now.
Wouldn't be a total shocker given what's been going on with the P12, but even apart from that, Utah joing the B12 with BYU makes some sense, both for the rivalry and geographically.
I've said it before that for WSU, we'll have to wait all of the chips to fall, but a reconstituted hybrid WEST COAST conference with blendings from the MWC and WCC for non-football would be a fascinating development. A flexible partnership with the programs who value West coast athletics.
Stanford, Cal, WSU, Oregon State, SDSU, Fresno State, UNLV, Nevada, Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Boise State, Oregon, UW (if they both choose to stay), Wyoming, Hawaii, Air Force, Arizona, Arizona State.
Call it the West Coast Athletic conference and scale it appropriately. Build a media rights package focused on West coast fans and extend a middle finger to everyone else. Pay unequal shares to the biggest markets. I'm done with everything else. Regionality for collegiate athletics still matters. Things are going to come back full circle one day.
Wouldn't be a total shocker given what's been going on with the P12, but even apart from that, Utah joing the B12 with BYU makes some sense, both for the rivalry and geographically.
I've said it before that for WSU, we'll have to wait all of the chips to fall, but a reconstituted hybrid WEST COAST conference with blendings from the MWC and WCC for non-football would be a fascinating development. A flexible partnership with the programs who value West coast athletics.
Stanford, Cal, WSU, Oregon State, SDSU, Fresno State, UNLV, Nevada, Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Boise State, Oregon, UW (if they both choose to stay), Wyoming, Hawaii, Air Force, Arizona, Arizona State.
Call it the West Coast Athletic conference and scale it appropriately. Build a media rights package focused on West coast fans and extend a middle finger to everyone else. Pay unequal shares to the biggest markets. I'm done with everything else. Regionality for collegiate athletics still matters. Things are going to come back full circle one day.
Utah has to wait for the TV deal money. They can't make this decision without knowing the amount of money they could get. The Big 12 deal isn't something amazing, it's around $31M per team, Pac-12 will get around that or a little less. This isn't Big 10 money we're talking about here, the Pac-12 number has been significantly lower to join the Big 12. People have to take in consideration traveling cost for non revenue sports. The Big 12 covers so much ground, teams are going to lose money travelling the non revenue teams.
Let's wait until the the new TV/streaming contract comes out. As much as I don't always agree with Wilner, he did say we should hear something by the middle of March, April 1st at the latest. If they don't have a contract by then, I will pay closer attention to these rumors. if the PAC 10/ or what ever it will be, sticks together, there are many quality universities with solid athletic programs and a TV package to sell. USC and UCLA are not the entire conference, yes losing them hurts, but the Big 12 seems to be moving on well without Texas and Oklahoma, and there was nothing but doom and gloom over that 2 -3 years ago. I am sure many of the remaining teams in the Pac are looking at a plan B in case the contract stinks, and that is probably where the rumors come from. I am hoping that the new commissioner and the university presidents of the pac 12 have a creative solution, I don't have high hopes for a huge payday, but something around 27-32 million a team will keep it together for a while longer, which is more than the current contract, time will tell.
If true, f-you Utah, we brought you in what, 11 years ago and raised your profile immensely. Ungrateful Mormons. Same with you Colorado. We rescued you from the imploding Big-12.
Even ASU and Arizona, which we brought in from the WAC.
Even ASU and Arizona, which we brought in from the WAC.
Seems very, very "rumorish."
Also, are the jokers running the Podcast looking to boost up their viewership?
Is their a possibility of these schools looking for a plan B if plan A blow up? Seems like the plausible scenario.
It’ll be foolish to think that wsu isn’t doing the same thing. The Big 12 isn’t a solid conference. They have no name schools. Pac-10 still has Oregon, UW, Stanford. No school in the Big 12 touches that. People were saying that UW and Oregon to the B1G by august and that never.
I would fully expect WSU to have a plan B and positioning itself to the Big-12 if that was an option.
This is all rumorish, but there is clearly growing anxiety due to the lack of progress on a deal.
I tend to think the "deal" terms are known, I tend to think the details in waiting are adding SMU and SDSU to the mix.
The B12 probably isn't illegally interfering. What they're likely doing is provoking a media response and stoking the fires 3rd party.
Was thinking about this a little and believe SMU might have been a smokescreen by George to mess with the Big 12 and, perhaps, to get a bit more leverage with others. E.g., maybe he could get UNLV and SDSU to come in on a reduced share for a while. It's just hard to imagine leaving Vegas there for the plucking, especially with it being in the Pacific time zone. I actually hope he's savvy enough to think like that. Note that I'm not stating this as fact. Just a possibility. Selfishly, I'd love to have SMU and any other Texas schools in the mix if possible, assuming they move the needle, due to living here. It would be great to see the Cougs down here more often.
SMU is coming to the Pac-12. That is pretty much a done deal from what I've heard and seen.
The one area that starts to make sense of Colorado and Utah leaving is unequal sharing of revenue if that comes to fruition. There is a twitter graph on viewership of Big-12, Pac-12 and ACC schools. Cougs are number 8. Colorado is at or near the bottom.
Interesting re SMU. Re rev share, I can't find it now, but I saw some buzz saying the Pac-12 has been discussing unequal revenue sharing. The only way I'd ever not loathe that if it was a choice between that and UW and Oregon bailing tomorrow, which doesn't seem to be on the table. Even then, as you point out, that could result in other schools bailing, which could blow things up anyway. I'm amazed at how terrible Pac-12 leadership has been over the years -- not just the conference leader, but more so, the dumbass university presidents -- and, while I'm reserving judgment on Kliavkoff until we see what happens in the next month or so, it's not looking great for him, either.
I meant to post this as an edit to a previous post, but Rivals didn't take it although it said "saved". The Big 12 moved fast after Okla and Texas announced by snaging 4 (albeit debatable) teams. They appear to be staying active. Kliavkoff has not done a goddam thing. Except talk to SMU I guess. Which I think is a huge mistake. Snap up SDSU and UNLV you idiot. If Utah+1 bail, snap up Utah State and Colorado State. They are both R1 land grant schools BTW.
As they said in Animal House when they pledged Flounder and Pinto: We need the guys".
Moving quickly should have been a key here. The longer this drags out, the more likely more teams leave.
It could still get saved. Maybe there’s a super secret bonanza around the corner. But I doubt it.
For what it is worth, at least we know that Kliavkoff was handed a clusterf the day he took over of idiot Scott! Now, let’s see him pull a rabbit out of his hat!
Give it up man. UNLV will never be in the pac 12. They aren’t even ranked academically as a tier 1 university.
But the do have a
Graduate Certificate in Gaming Management!
The Graduate Certificate in Gaming Management is a 15-credit program designed to bring hospitality executives together to learn the latest gaming management and leadership techniques in an executive format, via the Internet and other media.Courses are taught entirely online although all students are encouraged to participate in the graduation activities and exercises on campus. In addition to regular tuition and fees, this program has an additional fee of $510 per credit to cover the cost of delivery in an executive format.
Um, yes they are R1. Unless you are referring to some other ranking?
List of research universities in the United States - Wikipedia
All you've got to do is search "UNLV R1 Status" and this is the first result, folks.
www.nevadacurrent.com
Carnegie shuffle moves UNLV up to "R1" status • Nevada Current
Seven years ahead of schedule, University of Nevada, Las Vegas is now the first public university in Nevada to achieve “Tier 1” status. The Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education gave UNLV “R1” status, a designation reserved for institutions with “very high research...
www.nevadacurrent.com
All you've got to do is search "UNLV R1 Status" and this is the first result, folks.
Carnegie shuffle moves UNLV up to "R1" status • Nevada Current
Seven years ahead of schedule, University of Nevada, Las Vegas is now the first public university in Nevada to achieve “Tier 1” status. The Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education gave UNLV “R1” status, a designation reserved for institutions with “very high research...
Internet
Maybe PharmaCoug has been dipping into his product. Like the pharmacist on 2 and a Half Men, Russell (Martin Mull). his appearances were hilarious.All you've got to do is search "UNLV R1 Status" and this is the first result, folks.
Carnegie shuffle moves UNLV up to "R1" status • Nevada Current
Seven years ahead of schedule, University of Nevada, Las Vegas is now the first public university in Nevada to achieve “Tier 1” status. The Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education gave UNLV “R1” status, a designation reserved for institutions with “very high research...
And why do we need 3 posts after mine to say the same thing? Not that I care
I’m a little surprised how low their number is. I knew they were R1, but it’s just barely. Pretty sure WSU has individual colleges with more research activity than this says UNLV has in total. Our total is 6-7x what theirs is.All you've got to do is search "UNLV R1 Status" and this is the first result, folks.
Carnegie shuffle moves UNLV up to "R1" status • Nevada Current
Seven years ahead of schedule, University of Nevada, Las Vegas is now the first public university in Nevada to achieve “Tier 1” status. The Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education gave UNLV “R1” status, a designation reserved for institutions with “very high research...
I'm just always trying to nudge people -- usually Ed -- to take the (literally) two seconds to search for something if you don't know what you're talking about, instead of spouting off or "asking questions." It works wonders.Maybe PharmaCoug has been dipping into his product. Like the pharmacist on 2 and a Half Men, Russell (Martin Mull). his appearances were hilarious.
And why do we need 3 posts after mine to say the same thing? Not that I care
One thing I gotta say - research spending (mostly federal money) IMHO is sort of a dumb benchmark for academic prowess. I was in Higher Ed for 28 years, much of it at WSU, and the amount of waste and ridiculous grants killed me. Take our alma mater - remember the "Go Cougs" ad that touted our "groundbreaking" aviation biofuel research? Like 15+ years ago? And it has been "research" funded ever since. You know how many gallons of biofuel have come out of it so far? 0. (Feel free to correct me if I have missed new developments.
Or our multi-multi million dollar grants for the Shock Physics grants and building. What has that resulted in that benefits society? Um, nothing that I know of.
As far as I am concerned, federal research grants are an area that should be cut to shit. Even look at our wheat breeding research. You know how many Universities are getting similar grants? OSU, KSU, etc etc. How about the feds consolidate it into one University doing it, eliminating all the duplication in researchers, administrators and staff, facilities, etc. Preferably WSU being the one of course.
And I won't even get into the smaller but multi million dollar grants I saw at a subsequent institution. Absolute waste of taxpayer money for BS stuff, though not "research" per se. But Higher Ed will lap it up gladly.
Oh and P.S. - I believe WSU's ICR (internal cost recovery) rate is 45% (maybe higher), This is the money that a grant pays to cover administrative overhead (payroll, accounting, facilities, etc.) up and above the actual money that is paid to the "researchers". Quite a racket. Meanwhile we pack 1,000 students into Bryan Hall for Junior high level Comm 101 (at least we did when I went to college). Academic standards indeed.
Last edited:
While I agree that it’s not the most sensible measure….
We’ve created biofuel out of multiple sources, and in varieties that are actually in use in some areas. But, production in quantity isn’t the goal of research, so we wouldn’t even know how much has been made. Biofuel research products are out there though…and current work includes finding ways to make it commercial scale.
I know some “interesting” things have come from shock physics, but I don’t know about what has stemmed from it or practical applications.
Consolidating wheat research isn’t a good idea. It has to occur across climatic conditions, soil and weather conditions, different pests, etc. And, the researchers will argue that if you limit the number of people you limit innovation and collaboration (although, researchers tend to be so territorial that they reduce collaboration themselves).
I think you also overestimate ICR. Most grants - especially the bigger ones - have caps on how much can be used for administration, and a pretty good accounting needs to be provided. WSU funds its support functions by pooling the percentage across all grant awards - so they get money even for the small things that require little support. My frustration is the lack of oversight of researchers who have commercial interests that parallel their academic research. I’ve seen grant accounting that shows the entire value went for “consulting fees” awarded to the researcher’s private company. And somehow that didn’t flag as a conflict.
3 questions.
1 - Can you show us any evidence that WSU-research developed biofuels are out there "in use" anywhere?
2 - Shit we have wheat research facilities in Pullman and Everett. I'm not saying eliminate any research in Kansas, etc. , upi just don't need completely separate administrations at multiple institutions. The researcher can partner with on central admin structure.
3 - Are you a grant accountant in Higher Ed? because the first part of your last paragraph makes no sense at all and is inaccurate.
Not interested in fighting over this, but I know what i am talking about, especially on the accounting side, because I am one. I do agree 100% with your comment on researcher oversight. Kind of like the professors that publish their own textbooks and use them in their classes.
I’ve flirted with the outer edges of grant accounting, but can’t figure out the mathematical gymnastics that are required. In my world 2+2=4. Near as I can tell in grant accounting 2+2= somewhere between f.2 and r.5, except on even numbered days that fall on Thursday,.
I was a grant Accountant in a previous life. Grant Accounting is convoluted and does suck, but all Accounting sucks. That's why I'm a ship captain now
There's obviously more holding UNLV back than their research status. Where in the middle of expansionpalooza, but none of the major conferences are looking at UNLV. Why is that?
A few ideas…
Could be the gambling and sports betting.
Could be their campus and facilities aren’t up to snuff. Can they play in the new stadium?
Could be an old transgression against a current president in the Pac. Maybe that pres has influence over others.
Could be certain schools block them because they are afraid of what they will take away from them.
The Pac 10 doesnt have large market options it can essentially call up from AAA like a MLB team would. They either have to stretch into another area (SMU) or just get over the fact that it may be a small market team. Or, gasp, let go of the academic requirements.
Imo, the real reason the league as a whole doesnt have enough going on is because too many teams have chosen not to invest in being good. They’ve chosen to make their money by denying their programs the fuel they needed to move forward. Too many educators and not enough businessmen. Don’t believe me? Why did Larry Scott have a job for so long?
I wonder if there are deep rooted gambling influences that have deliberately stood in the way of UNLV climbing higher than they are? Local professional teams not wanting it to happen. Local casinos not wanting to manage the headaches associated with potential scandals at the bigtime collegiate level?
Don't know about the campus in general. but Football now plays in the Raiders stadium, and basketball must have good facilities - good enough for the Pac-12 tournaments to go there. Don't know if that is the UNLV's arena, but I assume they can play there if in the Pac-12. And Vegas is a large market. Not Dallas size of course, but UNLV is the only college game in town.
