Vandals
- Thread starter 79COUG
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Eck should not be mentioned in the same breath as Wulff, ever. He is a great coach. He can scheme and he finds talent.
Arbuckle? He’s very young for an oc let alone head. He definitely has the offensive mind we have built most programs around assuming he could keep a good DC around.
Lowest tier candidates: MWC, AAC, P5 head coaches and assistant coaches.
ABSOLUTELY NO TO BIG SKY COACHES.
Dickert does not count because he was a Wyoming, MWC coach, and because hired Dickert as DC, not HC. Later he was promoted to HC.
Hiring Whitworth College, CWU, EWU, Idaho, Idaho St, Big Sky, FCS coaches, can and often does lead to Paul Wulf or if not Paul Wulf types, still a cheap HC that often does not work out.
In General, Big Sky coaches are not qualified to be a P5, PAC 12, HC.
That's because no matter how awesome of a candidate they look, they usually look that awesome because it's Big Sky, FCS, etc.
Beau Baldwin, Paul Wulf, etc, looked like WORLD BEATERS AT EWU.
Eck does look good, just like those other coaches looked good.
WSU is a BIG BOY PROGRAM, ever since Leach.
A Big Boy program does not hire Whitworth, CWU, EWU, Idaho, Idaho St, Lewis Clark St, FCS, Big Sky HC's.
And if they do, that's a pretty good way to SUCK.
I guess we should give back the 97 and 2002 conference championships because a Big Sky coach was at the helm at WSU. Rescind that win over #1 UCLA in 88, too. Damned Big Sky coaches.
Lumping every Big Sky coach in as Paul Wulff is false logic.
Eck can coach it.
Lumping every Big Sky coach in as Paul Wulff is false logic.
Eck can coach it.
Interesting topic considering other threads with interest in Deions failure. Good opportunity for people to be wrong twice with one comment.
That was 30 to 43 years ago, and that was 1,2 coaches in Mike Price(Weber St), and Dennis Erickson.
Back then Big Sky HC's and the FCS level was better competition then now and better HC's then now.
Also there is about a 25 to 33% chance that a Big Sky hire will be a Price, and about a 50% to 67% chance that a MWC, AAC, P5, PAC 12, HC, assistant, will be a good HC hire.
MWC, AAC, P5, PAC 12, etc, hires are USUALLY BETTER then a Big Sky hire.
A Big Sky hire back then was ok back then, but now we can, and should hire better then that.
Even Dickert, Arbuckle are from a higher level then Big Sky.
You can please stop cherry picking taking things out of context, etc.
Also if your going to goto a higher level then Big Sky, FCS, etc, to hire DC Dickert, and OC ARBUCKLE, then how much more important is your HC hire then your DC, OC Hire? If your going to hire your OC, DC, from a MINIMUM LEVEL thats higher then Big Sky, shouldn't that mean that you also do the same or better for HC because it's even more important to get HC right then a DC, OC hire?
And WSU has been hiring a LOT of assistant coaches higher then Big Sky level, for a LOT of years.
MWC, AAC, SUN BELT, G5, FCS, Etc, conference teams hire Big Sky, FCS HC's.
Most to almost all P4,5 teams hire their HC's from at least MWC, AAC, P5, most to almost all the time.
If WSU is going to start hiring Big Sky coaches to be their HC's, then maybe WSU does belong in the MWC AAC, Big Sky, etc.
Don’t deal in absolutes Mik. There’s always exceptions. And when all else fails hire Biggs.
Also if for some strange REDICULOUS reason Ohio St or Alabama were to hire a Big Sky coach to be their HC, they can afford to do that, as even a Grandma could successfully coach Ohio St, etc.
But at WSU, it's extremely important to get the HC hire RIGHT, as a BAD HIRE can SCREW WSU.
It's important for WSU to hire the Right Jonathan Smith, Dickert, etc, type of coaches from WSU, Ore St types, MWC, AAC, P5 that know how to CONSISTENTLY win a lot with LESS at the MWC, AAC, P4,5 level.
WSU CANNOT AFFORD TO GAMBLE, TAKE THE RISK of hiring a Big Sky coach as HC, and GREATLY risk that HC Not working out and screwing WSU, like WULF did.
Even if not likely to be a WULF the Big Sky hire are too risky for WSU and too much of a risk.
Even tho Rolo was a bad hire, it technically was a good hire that made LOGICAL sense.
His system was a compatible system. He passed a lot. He HAD a lot of success at a higher level then Big Sky, doing MORE with less, etc.
There was about a 93% chance that that was going to be a good hire.
That's the type of hire on paper you make over a Big Sky hire, because there is about a 83% chance it will work out vs only about a 23% to 33% to 43% chance the Big Sky hire would work out
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Smith had zero head coaching experience when hired by Oregon State. Dickert was hired at WSU as a defensive coordinator when his resume was pretty thin, frankly. Rolovich didn't have much of a network, it seemed. Most of his experience was in FCS or lower. In terms of experience above that level, he had two years as a safeties coach at Wyoming, then one year as co-DC.
There are risks to hiring coordinators with no head coaching experience. No experience running a program. You can mitigate that somewhat by getting guys who have worked under respected head coaches (Bohl at Wyoming, Petersen at UW, in the cases of Dickert and Smith), but they aren't sure things. They certainly can work out well, though, like Dickert and Smith. I'm not convinced Grinch would have worked out well, to take a recent / relevant example.
When you realistically look at who WSU could get, even as a Power 5 school, it usually was going to have to be taking a chance on a P5 coordinator or a G of 5 head coach. If WSU becomes a de facto or actual Mountain West school, dipping into FCS becomes a lot more likely.
There are risks to hiring coordinators with no head coaching experience. No experience running a program. You can mitigate that somewhat by getting guys who have worked under respected head coaches (Bohl at Wyoming, Petersen at UW, in the cases of Dickert and Smith), but they aren't sure things. They certainly can work out well, though, like Dickert and Smith. I'm not convinced Grinch would have worked out well, to take a recent / relevant example.
When you realistically look at who WSU could get, even as a Power 5 school, it usually was going to have to be taking a chance on a P5 coordinator or a G of 5 head coach. If WSU becomes a de facto or actual Mountain West school, dipping into FCS becomes a lot more likely.
Rolo was still a G5, MWC, HIGHER, BETTER LEVEL THEN BIG SKY, FCS.
Yeah Ore St hired a little to no experience HC. Still I bet he had higher level experience then Big Sky, FCS.
Also when I was advocating the hire of a Johnathan Smith of OSU, I meant hiring a J Smith FROM a OSU type, a MWC, AAC, etc, type, etc.
I did not mean hire a J Smith with no to little experience at a higher then Big Sky, FCS level, and only experience at a Big Sky, FCS level.
If OSU wants to hire a 20% chance to be successful J Smith with no experience or only Big Sky experience, etc, let them, but just because OSU takes that kind of BAD RISK 20% CHANCE TO BE SUCCESSFUL on paper, does NOT mean that WSU should do that.
Instead WSU should let OSU, Hawaii, Wyoming, a MWC, AAC team take that risk, then if that HC does well there, THEN HIRE that coach from a OSU type, Hawaii, Wyoming, MWC, AAC, G5, etc.
The bottom line is that even tho coaches have little experience, and only have some experience at a Hawaii, Wyoming, OSU, G5, MWC, AAC, P5, etc, AT LEAST ITS BETTER then ONLY having Big Sky, FCS experience.
WSU needs to, should wait until the Big Sky, FCS coaches, go to a Hawaii, Wyoming, MWC, AAC, G5, OSU type, WSU type, Vandy, WKU, etc, and then if they do well at those spots, THEN WSU HIRES THEM AS A HC FROM ONE OF THOSE PLACES, INSTEAD OF FROM BIG SKY, FCS.
There is only 1 FCS program I would be ok with WSU hiring a HC from there, and that is North Dakotah State that has been National FCS champions for about 50 straight years.
Any other place in Big Sky, FCS is a NO.
Now in the BLOODY DAM UNLIKELY event that WSU is DESPERATE, AND COMBINED with NOTHING BUT SHETTY OPTIONS at the G5, MWC, AAC, P5 level, then ONLY as a EXTREMELY ULTIMATE LAST RESORT, NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE, ETC, THEN could hire a Big Sky, FCS coach like Eck, as a Extremely Limited EXCEPTION.
But WSU should not go out of its way, seek to hire a Big Sky, FCS coach like Eck.
There are BETTER OPTIONS.
And because of that HELL NO to hiring a Big Sky, FCS coach, except for the exception mentioned above.
Nope. And here’s why. You are always competing with your peers. All it takes is one of your peers thinking said coach is ready to make the jump. They hire him. He kicks ass. Opportunity lost. Where there’s risk there can be reward. Or there can be Paul Wulff.
One thing at a time guys. Dickert is making about $3 million, and is already approaching god-like status. No pressure here. 3 young kids. All depends on the wifey.
I think this is a lot of noise for the record. I think Dickert is sticking around at least for now. I just don’t buy that an FCS coach can’t ever be a P5 coach. If you’ve got a good enough candidate you better get on it or someone else will.
I really like Eck. He's done a great job at UI. Isn't his offensive philosophy more run oriented?
I still would put Arbuckle's offensive mind as the guy next in line if Dickert were to depart. Bring in an assistant with a bunch of years in some capacity plus a DC that can run that side. I'm also doubting the MSU job is one Dickert would bolt for.
I understand why people like Eck. I also understand why people love Dickert.
Recruiting is going to be our biggest battle and its 10 times worse now than before (until we have a conference).
X's and O's matter. No question.
If you can't recruit... you can't compete.
Tell me why people think Eck is ready to recruit to WSU?
Recruiting is going to be our biggest battle and its 10 times worse now than before (until we have a conference).
X's and O's matter. No question.
If you can't recruit... you can't compete.
Tell me why people think Eck is ready to recruit to WSU?
For starters he can load them up in his van and drive them 7 miles down the road.
Who knows how solid our recruits are, but we currently have 17 recruits. This time last year, we had 10. And every guy we have is a prototype WSU type recruit. There's no point in us worrying about stuff that we have no idea where we are going to end up.
Kids are still going to choose their best option. I dont think WSU has ever really competed with schools that are offering huge paydays, so what has changed? The portal has created less opportunity for HS kids. The extra covid year has created more demand than supply.
I think WSU recruiting could be fine…. but they gotta have a schedule for 2024 to show recruits and the roster…
these guys need to stop letting the wife dictate everything
It's more like a benevolent dictatorship in my house.
Once in a while, I get thrown a bone and can decide all on my own whether I'm supposed to mow the lawn on Monday or Tuesday.
Eck is a very solid coach. Is he ready for P5? My answer to that is, "are we going to be P5?"
If we end up P5 I'd say no at this time. If we go Mtn West I'd look hard at him. Look at what he has done to turn around Idaho with those resources? And his kids respect him. Very solid coach.
If we end up P5 I'd say no at this time. If we go Mtn West I'd look hard at him. Look at what he has done to turn around Idaho with those resources? And his kids respect him. Very solid coach.
