Anyone know if they are needed this weekend in Tempe. I will call Monday but trying to firm up plans
Vax Papers
- Thread starter Lollapalousa
- Start date
Arizona still respects the individual.
just not the voters wishes
If that is in reference to AZ audit - the results of the election were upheld. You're aware of that right?
So, the non-sequiter is noted but irrelevant to the question of whether zee papers are checked in Arizona.
Yep and they still made changes to election laws. That’s not “respect”, nor will the GOP acknowledge those results of even the third audit.
And they don’t respect people’s “choice”. Still require other vaccines to attend school , sporting activities and even jobs . Just this one ….
Non-sequiter
Again, Lollapaloosa, there are no vaccine papers required in Arizona. And none at Sun Devil Stadium. You do you.
So does Washington, just on the other side. Years ago, we stopped allowing people to smoke inside buildings. We stopped interpreting things from the view point of just what the smoker wants, but what a non-smoker wants, and for the greater health of society.
Personally, I would rather live in Washington where the infection rates, and deaths, are much lower than Arizona.
Well you could not even attend WSU without your vaccinations. They too were “mandated”. The difference this time is ?
The vaccines I was mandated to take all had decades of data, all potential risks were disclosed and physicians were able to speak comfortably toward informed consent.
There were also exemptions including what was known as objection of conscience.
The current mandate does not include objection of conscience provisions.
The current “vaccine” manufacturers afe also exempt from liability so physicians are not always willing to address informed consent since they are the next line in the litigation chain which could impact their liability insurance.
So, no, it’s not the same. Never has been.
Let alone the mortality rate on Covid is a decimal point and a lot of zeroes.
This has all been said before and promptly distilled to “It’s just like X.” But I’ll add to it.
If Rolo’s objection is due to the abortive origins, the difference is that there are ethical alternatives to every vaccine currently mandated. I know since we have been sure to source them for our children. It does require attention and prompt notification to your doctor. And if you have a long term relationship—as we do with our pediatrician—then they plan for it.
Inslee, Biden, et al, won’t let people wait for the ethical option.
When I received the polio vaccine in 1955., it was after a one year trial. It was called the greatest experiment in the history of medicine. Talk about experimental vaccines.
There was one bad batch that resulted in 600 deaths, and 10,000 cases. I can‘t find if the manufacturers were given liability protection.
Polio was 2-5% fatal for children, but worse for adults if mixed with bulbar, so yeah worse than Covid.
it must not have been too contagious, because in the worst year (1952) there were 58k cases with 3k deaths In the U.S.
There was one bad batch that resulted in 600 deaths, and 10,000 cases. I can‘t find if the manufacturers were given liability protection.
Polio was 2-5% fatal for children, but worse for adults if mixed with bulbar, so yeah worse than Covid.
it must not have been too contagious, because in the worst year (1952) there were 58k cases with 3k deaths In the U.S.
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Before I respond to the rest , what is the number that best represents the loss of life due to covid ? On the low end 100k? High end 700k. What number do you think is realistic of the number of deaths ?
After that I can respond to the rest of your post.
Every place I've gone that required showing your papers accepted a photograph.
I'll bite. Tho not gona respond to rest of your post. Within reasonable limits, its not about the number of dead. As long as theres not something like about, around 10 mil+ dead, etc.
Its the mortality rate(number of dead out of number of cases), that really matters if its high, when combined with a highly infectious(infectation rate),disease.
A 3 to 5 to 7 to 9%+ mortality rate that is high like that, combined with a high infection rate, lots of cases, is a real problem.
Thats why Smallpox, Spanish Flu, Ebola in Africa, was so bad.
The mainstream lamestream media only focuses on the about 735k dead number.
The reason why that number not as important, is not the accuracy. Whether its 100k or 1 million its not as telling a number.
Reason? Because about 600k of that number died in FIRST YEAR. And about 135k of that number died the 2nd year til now.
The first year there was about a 100 million cases. That was about a .43% Mortality Rate. Which about 3 times worse then FLU's mortality rate of about .18% about 2 years ago.
2nd Year til now, Delta variant is even more infectious, more cases, millions of cases vs about 135k dead vs 600k dead of first year. Thats about a .10% mortality rate, 1/2 as worse then the FLU's .18%
Overall for the whole pandemic about 150 mil to 300 mil cases 735k dead, and about a .36%, 2.5 times worse then the FLU's Mortality Rate 2,3,4 years ago.
Now thats assuming the numbers, stats are accurate.
If they are not, and if stats are either over reported, or if they count people that died of cancer that had covid in system, etc, and if stats are about 300k dead 1st year, and 65k dead 2nd year til now, the mortality rate FIRST year would be about .23% about the same as FLU was about 2,3,4 years ago, and about .05% the 2nd year until now, which about 1/4 as bad as the FLU was about 2,3,4 years ago. And overrall about a .13% mortality rate that almost the same as FLU was 2,3,4 years ago.
Mortality rate more telling then number dead.
And Mortality rate for Covid is extremely low like the FLU 2,3,4 years ago.
But instead of rightfully focusing on Mortality rate, you ED, and the Lamestream media focuses only on the number 735k dead, and dont explain what I explained.
And why dont they explain that what I explained?
1. People maybe not be perceived as smart enough
2. People may be perceived as getting bored at explanation
3. If the explanation were given to people they wouldnt go along with the government
4. Too control the people.
5. The explanation is not sensational enough, and its more sensational to say 735k dead. And saying 735k dead without a explanation like mine sells more.
6. To stir up fear
But pointing this out, is like talking to a wall or the illogical, as you and others wont listen, as its been logically explained a lot, and you others have not listened, understood, or continue to illogically disagree, etc.
So I have basically wasted my time
Well it is your time. I simply asked for a number. You could say 100k. There has been a focus on a real number, all I did was ask what it is. And no I don't necessarily focus on the dead bodies.
The other thing in this is all the umreported, underreported, A symptomatic(where person doesnt know they have a mild covid case).
If account for all those, the mortality rate, might be as low as .03% of less then 1%.
That said, if a person lives in a place like Lincoln, or whitman county, and if they are at higher risk, stay home more, and if wear a mask, social distance 10 feet, wash hands a lot, use hand sanitizer a lot, dont touch their eyes, face a lot, etc, then they probably dont need to vax up and probably wont get covid.
Im not vaxxed, and I have not gotten covid.
Thats not to say Vaccines wont help. They can help. And people at higher risk of getting covid and dying from covid, should they get it, if they want to get the vax, then good for them.
And even those who dont need vaccine, if they want vaccine, good for them.
And if a person really needs a vaccine, and doesnt get it, then thats their choice.
Because of the extremely low mortality rate, Covid Vaccines, should not be forced, mandated, and people should not lose their jobs if they dont take vaccine.
That said, I will take vaccine, because now that I have had a stroke, I am now at higher risk, so I plan to get Fizer Vaccine.
That said if I wanted to say no to vaccines, I would want the freedom to say no.
Another thing in all of this, Lincoln County has 10k people. About 150 to 225 cases, 1,2 deaths.
Its so good here, that half the people dont wear mask, half people not vaccinated, and despite that, there only about 150 to about 225 cases, 1,2 death, and about a .005% covid mortality rate. And Im pretty sure the 1,2 people that died, were 67+ an or had things like cancer.
Lincoln County is a example that if you are smart, have common sense, wash hands, use hand sanitizer, cover coughs and sneezes, social distance, wear mask, etc, you probably wont get, spread covid, and probably wont die of covid if you get covid.
But oh no Lincoln County has to follow the same ONE SIZE FITS ALL rules that good for Seattle, Spokane, and not good for Lincoln County.
Lincoln County should be Phase 4, 5, totally reopened, no mandates, complete freedom, etc.
But oh no, King Inslee wrong thinks he knows more, whats best for Lincoln County, more then the Mayors, City Councils, county commisioners of Lincoln County, and so Lincoln County has to stupidly, wrongly follow the same wrong, stupid, one size fits all rules that good for seattle, spokane, but not good for Lincoln County.
All Hail King, Emperor, Moron, Inslee
What is the number of deaths via covid. Pick a number between 100k and 700k that you feel is a honest accounting for the number of deaths.
Mika, Lincoln County has reported 21 deaths (192 per 100k). King County has reported 1,972 (88 per 100k). Washington as a whole is at 122 per 100k.
Lincoln County is more than twice as many deaths per capital than King County. Actual data doesn’t support your point.
And if you want to point to some of the Covid loving states:
Florida - 274 per 100k.
Texas - 243 per 100k
Mississippi - 336 per 100k
Alabama - 314 per 100k
South Dakota - 251 per 100k
Arizona - 287 per 100k
Idaho - 191 per 100k
Are Gov. Inslee’’s policies responsible for Washington having far fewer deaths than average (even though WA was one of first states to have outbreak at time when treatment was not as good)? Obviously can’t say how much of it is the policies, but the “tyrranical“ policies you and others point to has almost certainly saved a lot of lives, and if other states adopted the same, would likely have saved significantly more. And deaths are not the only toll.
Lincoln County is more than twice as many deaths per capital than King County. Actual data doesn’t support your point.
And if you want to point to some of the Covid loving states:
Florida - 274 per 100k.
Texas - 243 per 100k
Mississippi - 336 per 100k
Alabama - 314 per 100k
South Dakota - 251 per 100k
Arizona - 287 per 100k
Idaho - 191 per 100k
Are Gov. Inslee’’s policies responsible for Washington having far fewer deaths than average (even though WA was one of first states to have outbreak at time when treatment was not as good)? Obviously can’t say how much of it is the policies, but the “tyrranical“ policies you and others point to has almost certainly saved a lot of lives, and if other states adopted the same, would likely have saved significantly more. And deaths are not the only toll.
conveniently left a bunch of blue states in the Top 10 of deaths/1000 off your list, but hey cherry picking stats to make a point is fun.
NJ. 313
NY 289
AZ 285
MA 274
RI 271
Anyone that wants to can sort to their heart's content.
United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer
United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.
www.worldometers.info
I included AZ. AZ is controlled by republicans at state level and its COVID policies generally reflect that.
But my point was not to compare red/blue states. I was comparing WA numbers to examples of states most notably doing the opposite of the policies complained about in WA.
Since you want to bring up those particular blue states though, if you were interested you’d notice those states were each hit hard right at beginning and most deaths (especially other than RI) were at that time early on both before treatment got better and before some of orotective measures taken in WA and complained about were were taken in those places. And not all blue states did the same or as quickly.
But the main point is focusing on the policies WA has done that several of you on here call tyrranical, moronic etc and call Gov. Inslee a dictator, king or god because of these policies. But the data suggests that the policies have led to better results than most states, or we just have better results solely for other reasons.
But my point was not to compare red/blue states. I was comparing WA numbers to examples of states most notably doing the opposite of the policies complained about in WA.
Since you want to bring up those particular blue states though, if you were interested you’d notice those states were each hit hard right at beginning and most deaths (especially other than RI) were at that time early on both before treatment got better and before some of orotective measures taken in WA and complained about were were taken in those places. And not all blue states did the same or as quickly.
But the main point is focusing on the policies WA has done that several of you on here call tyrranical, moronic etc and call Gov. Inslee a dictator, king or god because of these policies. But the data suggests that the policies have led to better results than most states, or we just have better results solely for other reasons.
I think it would be more accurate to have numbers since the vaccination since that is the issue at hand .
I agree. I will add that it would support Mika’s point even less regarding Lincoln County. But didn’t have time.
Perhaps with respect to COVID alone. But these lockdowns have other affects. There's a good interview with Dr Bhattacharya (an epidemiologist) on Uncommon Knowledge. He might agree with what you write above with respect to COVIDE alone but certainly disagrees when everything is taken into account. He specifically cites FL as a counterexample.
Dr Bhattacharya has been the expert witness in several court cases opposing COVID restrictions. Judges have found significant flaws in his testimony and contradicted by further evidence. Authors of work he has cited have indicated he is misapplying their work. Notably, this area (immunology and virus spread) has not been his more long term area of study. And his theory is obviously a distinct minority in the scientific community.
I’m sure he’s being paid well in each of these cases to peddle his theory though. Someone’s gonna do it of course.
I dont know the real number, but if I guessed, I would guess about 550k give or take about 50k less or more.
And thats since Covid started.
If I broke it down. About 435k + or - about 43k in First year.
Since then about another about 73k + or - about 3k to 9k
Those guess reflect the overreporting, those that died of things like cancer, that also had covid.
I also guess there about at least about 225 million + cases.
I also guess about. 3% to 5% to 7% to 9% to 11% to 13% to 15% to 17% hospitalization rate out of those about 225 million cases.
I also guess the real mortality rate is about .27%
But those are just educated guesses as to what the real numbers are and not the not real exxaggerated, overreported, underreported numbers by the media.
Per Capita is not as accurate as Mortality Rate, and in Nation, States, Counties, the Mortality Rate is about an average of about .39% give or take a very very small amount difference.
You missed the point. The Point is .39% is not that bad and is not worth forced Vaccine Mandates
Especially since the underreported, and overreported stats could mean a mortality rate as low as .13 to .19%.
I just spent the last hour looking for refutations of his points, especially the Great Barrington Declaration. All I’ve found so far are a bunch of “he’s and idiot” or “he’s not a real expert.” The closest I found was Drosten using “PLURV” as an epithet. Others state that since the Koch’s are involved, he is tainted.
And I see a hint of this in your reply as you focus on him being “paid well … to peddle his theory.”
Frankly, it is tough to determine who is telling the truth anymore. Both sides throwing accusations of being in someone’s pocket to being morons sow distrust.
So what if my stats are slightly off. Some of us in Lincoln County are using slightly outdated stats. But whether outdated, or whether Slightly off the stats are CLOSE ENOUGH to make the same Valid Point that Lincoln County's Mortality rate, and numbers are so small that again a forced vaccine mandate is not needed, and the one size fits all, whats good for Seattle, Spokane, is not needed in Lincoln County.
Also despite Some in Lincoln County not wearing Mask, not getting Vaccinated, Lincoln County's numbers, Mortality Rate is still extremely small.
Also you, others say that other things are just as important as mortality rate, such as flattening curve, and that hospitals are overflowing.
Well if thats true, why did Sacred Heart have open ICU and other rooms, and equip? Wouldnt those have been used for Covid Patients, if overflowing.
Also why did Davenport hospital have little to none covid patients and empty rooms, empty hospital?
If hospitals were overwhelmed, etc, wouldnt Davenport Hospital had had Covid Patients shipped to Davenport Hospital?
The truth is that the whole Hospitals are, will be overflowed, overwhelmed is BS.
And the hospitalization rate is also low just like Mortality rate.
And for kids the Mortality Rate is about .004%. Kids have almost as good a chance of being hit by lightning as of getting hospitalized, dying of Covid.
But oh kids have to be forced to be vaccinated against covid too.
And to be Clear, Vaccines can be good, helpful against covid. But that doesnt mean they will be.
And clearly those at highest risk of covid should probably be vaccinated.
And if people want to get vaccinated, more power to them.
But people should not be forced to get vaccinated unless the mortality rate is like Small Pox, Spanish Flu, Ebola in AFRICA, and like bubonic black plague, etc.
And certainly not be forced to get vaccinated for something as low as about .38% or lower.
Your just wrong both morally, freedom, rights, numbers, logically.
I
Real Scaaary! NOT.
And since at least about 150 million cases ÷ by 50 states equals 3 mil cases. But assume arizona had 1 mil cases instead of 3 mil.
Then I guessing arizona has bout say 20 mil people.
100k goes into 1 mil 10 times. 1 mil goes into 20 mil 20 times. 10 times 20 = 57k ÷ by 1 mil = .05% Mortality Rate for Arizona(Approximate)(Close Enough)(Probably recent Mortality rate for last 2 to 4 months or less. If added FIRST YEAR averaged in, Mortality Rate would probably be about .20%.
In any case. Real Scaary numbers. NOT. Certainly does NOT justify FORCED Vacinations.
I quickly picked Arizona. Because what I remembered from your list, put 287 in calculator, divided by 100k = .00287% mortality rate out of 100k(not the mortality rate of number of dead out of number of cases.)
Real Scaaary! NOT.
And since at least about 150 million cases ÷ by 50 states equals 3 mil cases. But assume arizona had 1 mil cases instead of 3 mil.
Then I guessing arizona has bout say 20 mil people.
100k goes into 1 mil 10 times. 1 mil goes into 20 mil 20 times. 10 times 20 = 57k ÷ by 1 mil = .05% Mortality Rate for Arizona(Approximate)(Close Enough)(Probably recent Mortality rate for last 2 to 4 months or less. If added FIRST YEAR averaged in, Mortality Rate would probably be about .20%.
In any case. Real Scaary numbers. NOT. Certainly does NOT justify FORCED Vacinations.
And even if say 7 mil people in Arizona instead of 20 mil, that would still be about a .16 mortality rate for probably last 2,3,4 months
And if average in 1st year, then about .26% Mortality rate since Covid first began in Arizona. Again Real Scaaaary. NOT
And Again those numbers dont justify FORCED vaccinations.
Ill let the majority of your rambling innumerate posts speak for themselves, but my question for you is: Are those 22 deaths (in a county of only 10,000 people) meaningless? Are the 20,866 in Arizona, and so on? Does putting into small percentages somehow make the hundreds of thousands of deaths easier to minimize?
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